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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAre these the steps that brought us to this shit show?
Trump told Russia about Israel's "iron dome" missile defense system
Russia told Iran about Israel's "iron dome" missile defense system
Iran told Hamas about Israel's "iron dome" missile defense system
Hamas used the information about Israel's "iron dome" missile defense system to launch an attack on Israel
Republicans have now blamed President Biden for Hamas' attack
And Tommy Tuberville along with members of the House Free Dumb Caucus have snarled up Congress
so we don't have the needed military leadership in place and the funding that us now needed is tied up
Walleye
(31,455 posts)I think the Republicans are the ones showing weakness. I think the Republicans are actively engaged in providing aid and comfort to our enemies
Marius25
(3,213 posts)If Israeli intelligence finds out he helped them pull this off, I hope they blacklist him forever.
czarjak
(11,542 posts)calimary
(81,988 posts)Thats something I cant figure out. It escapes all reason. Why ANYBODY supports this rats-nest-headed poseur is beyond making any sense whatsoever.
Marius25
(3,213 posts)and a lot of Israel is right-wing, pro-authoritarian just like Republicans.
gab13by13
(22,022 posts)Marius25
(3,213 posts)debm55
(26,172 posts)housecat
(3,130 posts)Submariner
(12,532 posts)It might help explain why the Iranians hate our guts.
President Truman (D) was approached by a 1952 version of PNAC, asking for authorization to instigate a coup of the Democratically elected leader of Iran.
Truman said no. leave the Democracy alone. After President Eisenhower (R) was inaugurated, he gave the coup plotters the go ahead to turn up the heat in the Middle East.
From Wikipedia:
The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup d'état, was the U.S.- and UK-instigated, Iranian army-led overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favor of strengthening the monarchical rule of the shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, on 19 August 1953.
Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh had the crazy idea that the oil under Iran was owned by
Iran and the oil companies of BP & Dutch Shell objected to that idea and so along with the CIA
sponsored a coup that installed the Shah of Iran into power so they could get get cheap oil and I
bet less than 5% of Americans know about those facts .... this lead to radicalization of Iran and a
extreme Islamic Muslim leadership coming to power. Trump's dumping of a very good Nuclear
Disarmament agreement didn't help either.
Kid Berwyn
(15,598 posts)As if history got forgotten on purpose.
History of BP Includes Role in 1953 Iran Coup After Nationalization of Oil
AMY GOODMAN: As we wrap-up, as tens of thousands of gallons of oil continue to spew into the Gulf of Mexico from the BP oil spill, we continue our series on BP. Yesterday we looked at their horrendous safety record on the millions of dollars theyve spent on lobbying congress to prevent regulation. Today, were going to look at the history, sixty years ago, BP was called Anglo Iranian Oil Company. In an interview on DEMOCRACY NOW!, Stephen Kinzer, the former New York Times bureau chief, author of "All the Shahs Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror", told the story of the Anglo Iranian Oil Companys role in the 1953 CIA coup against Irans popular progressive Prime Minister, Mohammed Mossadegh. Lets go to a clip of what Steven Kinzer says.
STEVEN KINZER: At the beginning of the 20th century as a result of a corrupt deal with the old dying monarchy, one British company, owned mainly by the British government, had taken control of the entire Iranian oil industry.
SNIP...
...What happened was that Prime Minister Mossadegh, who really was an extraordinary figure in his time, although hes in somewhat forgotten by history, came to power in 1951 on a wave of nationalism aimed at this one great obsession, weve got to take back control of our oil and use the profits for the development of one of the most wretchedly impoverished nations on earth at that time. So the Iranian parliament voted unanimously for a bill to nationalize the Anglo Iranian Petroleum Co. and Mossadegh signed it and he devoted himself, during his term of office, to carrying-out that plan. To nationalize was then Britains largest and most profitable holding anywhere in the world. Bear in mind that the oil that fueled England all during the 1920s and 30s and 40s all came from Iran. The standard of living that people in England enjoyed all during that period was due exclusive to Iranian oil. Britain has no oil. Britain has no colonies that have oil. every factory in England, every car, every truck, every taxi, was running on oil from Iran. The Royal Navy, which was projecting British power all over the world, was fueled a hundred percent by oil from Iran. Suddenly Iran arrives and says, 'Oh, we're taking back the oil now. So this naturally set-off a huge crisis. And thats the crisis that made Mossadegh really a big World figure around the early 1950s. At the end of 1951 Time magazine chose him as 'Man of the Year,' and they chose him over Winston Churchill, Douglas MacArthur, and Dwight Eisenhower; and they made the right choice because at that moment, Mossadegh really was the most important person in the world.
AMY GOODMAN: That was the former New York Times reporter Stephen Kinzer. Wrote "All the Shahs Men." Talked extensively about the Anglo Iranian Oil Company which was renamed British Petroleum. Thats BP. That does it for our show.
SOURCE: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/5/6/history_of_bp_includes_role_in
Here's an excellent overview from Mr. Bill Hare:
When the CIA Overthrew Iran for British Petroleum
By Bill Hare
opednews.com
EXCERPT...
Iran had just elected Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, that nation's most popular political figure.
The fact that Mossadegh was elected by the will of Iran's citizens did not deter the efforts of an invigorated CIA that used the Cold War as a pretext to move away from the fact finding agency conceived of by President Harry Truman to an aggressive international political body willing to overthrow nations in contravention of popular national will.
Mossadegh immediately angered the international power cartel with which the CIA actively interlinked. British Petroleum had been garnering the lion's share of profits from Iran's wealthy oil deposits.
Mossadegh nationalized Iran's oil as a means of obtaining what he deemed to be a fairer portion of that important asset. The nationalization law was passed unanimously by the Iranian Parliament.
Despite the fact that BP was offered considerable compensation by Mossadegh his days were numbered after the nationalization bill was passed.
Richard Helms, who would later become CIA Director, was prepared to act with a close Iranian friend becoming political beneficiary. A plan was launched to overthrow Iran in a coup and hand over the reins of power to a reliable figure who would accede to the international power elite's interests on behalf of British Petroleum.
CONTINUED...
http://www.opednews.com/articles/When-the-CIA-Overthrew-Ira-by-Bill-Hare-100511-809.html
Nothing like the truth when it comes to figuring out what to do. Thanks for bringing a clue to DU, Botany.
The "commies" of Alaska, such as Palin, have the same absurd idea, that the mineral wealth of Alaska belongs to the people there. Private corporations may take this wealth but must pay royalties to the people of Alaska.
It would be well if West Virginia, Wyoming, Calif, et al. would adopt the same principle of state/people's sovereignty over their land and natural stuff.
IbogaProject
(2,944 posts)He expelled or killed all the progressives leaving Iran ripe for a conservative takeover, which chased out their rich and educated and left them in this current situation.
brush
(54,513 posts)the Iranian coup plotter, thus leaving the Shah in place?
I wouldn't call that "leaving democracy alone", just the opposite, that was leaving the autocrat in place.
What are you saying?
Submariner
(12,532 posts)to get involved in this coup. He did not want it to happen.
He may have thought it was a dead horse, or might have suspected Ike the conservative would approve the coup planning. I'm not inside their heads.
All I do know is the Democratic Party did the right thing, and GOP did not.
I said nothing about any investigative interference, and mean none.
brush
(54,513 posts)Duppers
(28,151 posts)CrispyQ
(36,787 posts)Has anyone in Republican leadership chastised Tuberville for his holdup on military promotions?
At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater. ~Frank Zappa
IMO, the elite want to take down the scenery & they know Trump can do it, they're just worried he might burn the whole fucking theater down. And they're right to be concerned, cuz he's a reactionary and never thinks about consequences because he's never had to face them.
We're incredibly lucky Joe Biden is president right now.
llashram
(6,265 posts)saw this photo in 2017 and trump's Helsinki betrayal I would not be surprised if trump betrayed us on the sly at his Florida residence/clubhouse recently with the Iran disclosure of U.S. military secrets. Who knows who was in that crowd that day or ever?
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-putin-helsinki/h_88aae5e5eacdb45470a7273e647aaf55
ShazzieB
(16,973 posts)I mean, he's always been a pos, but his shittiness increases exponentially every time he blocks yet another military promotion and/or emits another self-righteous proclamation about how proud he is of himself for doing it.
P.S. Who are the men in that photo with Trump? I feel like I should know, but I can't place them or the event pictured there.
CrispyQ
(36,787 posts)Taken 2017, shortly after he got in the White House. Look how full of himself he is, thinking he's running with the big dogs now, while they think what a tool he is.
True Blue American
(18,014 posts)Would help nothing. Schumer and McConnell, if he is willing need to throw out that tradition that is. Not even a rule. Take away any committees he is on and let him know he is not welcome. John Cornyn and Thune have a responsibility too! Make life miserable for him.
Then go after JD Vance for holding up Judicial appointments because the Justice Department is prosecuting Trump. Neither man is fit to be in the Senate.
LuckyCharms
(17,588 posts)Silent Type
(3,498 posts)goes on for over 6 months.
LuckyCharms
(17,588 posts)to circumvent it were.
And that, in my opinion, is what aided Hamas in the attack.
Silent Type
(3,498 posts)LuckyCharms
(17,588 posts)allowed this to happen. WHY did 3,000 (?) rockets find their way into Israel?
Why is overwhelming the iron dome simple without having counterintelligence?
True Blue American
(18,014 posts)He is too busy trying to stay out of jail. Like Trump he ran to CHA!
MyMission
(1,862 posts)That's what overwhelmed them.
Not rocket science but advanced military tactics, which Hamas hasn't had or used in the past. They got help and or advice and or funding and encouragement from various sources. I'm certain of that!
Cutting holes here while dropping bombs there and invading everywhere is what overwhelmed them!
Silent Type
(3,498 posts)womanofthehills
(8,910 posts)It happened in Saudis Arabia in 2019
Can U.S. Build A Better Iron Dome To Stop Cruise Missiles?
On September 24, the Army announced it had awarded U.S. defense firm Dynetics a $237 million contract to build prototypes of its Enduring Shield short-range air defense system designed to protect U.S. bases from surface-skimming cruise missiles and larger drones.
Huntsville, Alabama-based Dynetics, which is owned by LeidosLDOS +3.8%, will deliver 16 prototype launchers and 60 heat-seeking AIM-9X Sidewinder interceptors by March 2024 for testing, with 12 of the former due late 2023. If evaluations are satisfactory, that could lead to full-scale procurement of around 400 launchers and thousands of missiles.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienroblin/2021/09/30/can-us-build-a-better-iron-dome-to-stop-cruise-missiles/
prodigitalson
(2,529 posts)Silent Type
(3,498 posts)prodigitalson
(2,529 posts)republianmushroom
(14,635 posts)And then informed Iran, who informed Hamas.
prodigitalson
(2,529 posts)The Russians however are buddies with the Iranians and are dependant on them for drones for their crimes in Ukraine.
usonian
(10,350 posts)The documents had been inventoried and presumably, allies warned of their leakage.
HOWEVER
The "LIV Summit" is very recent, and who knows what was passed then?
It's not about Iron Dome. It's about readiness.
calimary
(81,988 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 9, 2023, 02:48 PM - Edit history (1)
I could be way off here, usonian. But your post made me think, immediately, of the boxes of documents trump took out of the White House when he left.
A) he wanted to keep it all. Because he COULD. Presidential privilege and all that.
B) he wanted to make sure nobody else could access them and see whats in them, as to how culpable those documents could prove he was.
So WHY did he take them all? Im leaning toward answer B.
usonian
(10,350 posts)We may never know.
Interrogate a person who can't tell the truth?
(thinks about using reverse psychology)
Nahhhh, way above my pay grade.
jaxexpat
(7,054 posts)lees1975
(4,045 posts)when the Saudis were visiting?
If this scenario had been reversed, and it was a Democratic president that had left classified docs laying around following a Hamas attack on Israel, the news media would have already connected the dots with innuendo and suspicion and "spokespersons" would already be blaming them.
Surely someone has come to that conclusion.
LymphocyteLover
(5,754 posts)intrepidity
(7,505 posts)*Why* did Israeli intel fail? That is the crucial question.
LymphocyteLover
(5,754 posts)Warpy
(111,794 posts)However, I sincerely doubt technical information about the iron dome figured much in this attack. Having had their dumb bombs shot down told them all they needed to know, so they pretty much fired off all they had in order to overwhelm it, which is pretty much what seems to have happened. They combined that with a massive strike over the wall with their hotheads.
I don't think Biden has shown weakness. He's put out ships close enough to deter anyone else in the region from taking advantage of this mess, but I suppose the religious nuts won't be happy until nukes fly
The attitude seems to be "you made this mess, now slug it out." Unfortunately, Netanyahu can be counted upon to do all the wrong things. So can the military arm of Hamas. Ordinary people, just trying to get through the day, are the ones who will suffer, they always are.
This whole thing is sickening.
Sympthsical
(9,238 posts)If we're the ones putting it forward.
Iron Dome is a known entity. It works very well. We have video of it working very well these past few days. If it were undermined in a way put forth by this theory, I don't think we'd see it working as well as it did.
However, it can be overwhelmed with enough incoming fire, and that's exactly what Hamas did. They launched rockets at an unprecedented simultaneous scale. Some were going to get through.
One of the core questions is - where did they get that volume?
hay rick
(7,781 posts)In the absence of verifiable information, always speculate in ways that feel right.
Sympthsical
(9,238 posts)We watched the latest Mission Impossible last night. About halfway through, I thought, "Someone's going to think this is true."
hay rick
(7,781 posts)Goddessartist
(2,065 posts)"NETANYAHU AND HIS RECKLESS AND DERANGED AGENDA, ALONG WITH HIS GOVERNMENT OF HORRORS, WHICH HAS HACKED THIS NATION TO PIECES, HAVE BROUGHT THIS WAR UPON US. HAMAS, SEEING A TORN PUBLIC, RIVEN AND RIDDEN WITH HATE, WITH A DEFENSE ESTABLISHMENT WHOSE BEST PEOPLE REFUSE OR CONSIDER REFUSING TO SERVE, FOUND IT HARD TO RESIST THE TEMPTATION
FIFTEEN YEARS HAVE PASSED SINCE NETANYAHU PROMISED TO TOPPLE THE HAMAS GOVERNMENT. IN THOSE YEARS HES MANAGED TO SUCCESSFULLY TOPPLE ISRAELI SOCIETY, MILITARY DETERRENCE AND ORDERLY GOVERNANCE AND HAMAS BECAME A TRAINED ARMY. NO GOVERNMENT IN THE WORLD CAN ESCAPE UNSCATHED FROM SUCH AN EVENT. THIS IS A HISTORIC FAILURE, A TOTAL COLLAPSE OF ALL SYSTEMS.
NETANYAHU WILL NO LONGER BE MR. SECURITY. HE HASNT BEEN ONE FOR A LONG TIME. THE TERROR ATTACKS AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED IN THE LAST NINE MONTHS AND SATURDAYS FATALITIES ARE ALL HIS RESPONSIBILITY, AS IS THE PRESENT WAR, WHICH MAY STILL SPREAD TO OTHER FRONTS. HE IS FACING A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION.
WHAT ARE THE POSSIBLE MOVES IN CONTINUING THIS WAR? EACH ONE OF THEM IS BAD FOR THE GOVERNMENT. IF HE CHOOSES TO KEEP IT AT A LOW GRADE, SEEKING TO END THE AFFAIR QUICKLY, HE WILL PROJECT WEAKNESS, POSSIBLY ENCOURAGING FURTHER ATTACKS. IF HE TRIES TO DESTROY GAZA, INCLUDING THE USE OF A LAND INVASION, THIS WILL INCUR A HEAVY LOSS OF LIVES.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,303 posts)And Fascists/Republican Remnants are pure evil.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,317 posts)Putin's methods and goals thrive in a chaotic environment.
Blocking Biden in anyway helps Putin screw the Ukrainian people.
Blocking Biden helps Putin's useful idiot tRump in his bid for Authoritarian rule.
tmars505
(4 posts)1. and Russia told Saudi Arabia.
2. and that's why jared got $2 billion.
KS Toronado
(17,850 posts)Martin68
(23,399 posts)used to advantage by Hamas? Where are you getting this incredibly precise information?
Progressive dog
(6,944 posts)which became operational twelve years ago? What does the Iron Dome defend against?
Israel's Iron Dome defense system is a land-based system that intercepts and destroys short-range rockets and mortars. It has become a mainstay of the country's defense since its introduction in 2011.2 days ago
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-palestine-hamas-gaza-iron-dome-how-israel-defends-its-skies-from-rocket-attacks-4460636
GreenWave
(7,253 posts)Mere coincidence?
DoBotherMe
(2,341 posts)Yes.
Evolve Dammit
(17,077 posts)rwild1967
(28 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)Aussie105
(5,637 posts)Its maximum capability and hence clues as how to overwhelm it probably were.
Got to love the conspiracy theories going around at the moment.
Cool your jets, before you start off talking about WW3.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)Anytime there is a viral message that is cut and pasted all over hell
It's time to start asking logical questions.
calimary
(81,988 posts)"All roads lead to Trump."
Evidently, here's yet another one.
Botany
(70,899 posts)Donald Trump's sharing of alleged classified intelligence to Russian officials in the White House has come under scrutiny amid a large-scale attack by the Hamas Islamist military group against Israel.
snip
Thom Hartmann, author and political commentator, posted on X, formerly Twitter, while sharing a 2017 article from The Washington Post: "Hamas apparently knew how to get around Israel's Iron Dome defenses. They probably learned this from Iran. Iran almost certainly got the information from Russia. And who gave it to Russia? Sure looks like it was Donald Trump, at the request of Putin."
snip
Allison Gill, who tweets using the account for the Mueller, She Wrote podcast, added: "Don't forget: Trump gave Israeli intelligence to Russians in the Oval Office 6 years ago. Putin armed Iran in exchange for drones to attack Ukraine."
snip
"This isn't hard to follow," added musician and author Mikel Jollett. "Trump gave military intel to the Russians. The Russians, who are extremely close allies with Iran, gave it to Iran. Iran gave that information to Hamas. Hamas used it to attack Israel. This is why intel security matters. Republicans DO NOT CARE."
Newsweek has contacted Trump's office for comment via email.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-israel-intel-russia-hamas-attack-1833094