'It's important to separate the facts from speculation': (re: beheaded babies in Israel)

[Duncan Grant]

(I was asked to repost this from LBN to GD)

Source: SkyNews

'It's important to separate the facts from speculation': What we actually know about the viral report of beheaded babies in Israel — One journalist from the Tel Aviv-based news channel i24 said a soldier told her they had "witnessed… bodies of babies with their heads cut off" at the Kfar Aza kibbutz near the Gaza border - but no Israeli officials have confirmed the claim.

…Stuart Ramsay interviewed two IDF majors - one of whom was a spokesman.

Ramsay said: "At no point did either he, or the other major I spoke to, ever mention that Hamas had beheaded or killed 40 babies or children. I believe that if it were the case, they would have told me and others there.

…And another journalist, Oren Ziv, who works for independent news outlet 972 mag, was also present and given the opportunity to speak to "hundreds of soldiers on site".

In a post on X, he said of the baby claims: "During the tour we didn't see any evidence of this, and the army spokesperson or commanders also didn't mention any such incidents."

Read more: https://news.sky.com/story/its-important-to-separate-the-facts-from-speculation-what-we-actually-know-about-the-viral-report-of-beheaded-babies-in-israel-12982329

[leftstreet]

2. Parsing infant deaths by whether or not they died with their heads

This is war culture mentality

[Duncan Grant]

4. It's either true or it isn't.

At this time, this story is unconfirmed by Israeli officials. That may change.

If it’s a falsehood (lie), one needs to ask, “Is this sort of misinformation really necessary”?

I’ll avoid asking additional questions until officials confirm or deny the original report.

[jimfields33]

27. Are you serious? President Biden just said it was real!

Why are you questioning the president? I am stunned.

[obamanut2012]

5. No, it isn't -- NO propoganda in war is good

It is enough to say babies were murdered without ginning up even more outrage, which this has done.

If it is not true, it is a fucking lie, not "war culture." Unless you are saying "war culture" is good.

[leftstreet]

8. No, I meant war culture mentality is bad

Anyone breathing a sigh of relief that a baby wasn't beheaded before it was killed - it's just sick

[obamanut2012]

10. I agree, which is why outrage propo is also wrong

Which is what this so far is. It is bad enough to state babies were murdered without making stuff up.

Very incubator babies in Kuwait.

[leftstreet]

18. +1

exactly

[madaboutharry]

3. I'll leave this here:

Per CNN: The Israeli Government has issued a statement confirming this.

Lt. Col. Jonathan Cornices, IDF International Spokesperson. just told Anderson Cooper that this is not a rumor and that there is forensic evidence of dismemberment.

I would think that some brave journalist will ask to see this evidence.

[Duncan Grant]

6. Let's get a link to that confirmation, asap.

Thanks for the referral to Anderson Cooper and Lt. Col. Jonathan Cornices. No transcript or print confirmation of that conversation yet (that I can find) but I look forward to knowing the truth about this.

[BannonsLiver]

12. Knowing and accepting are two separate things.

The knowing part will sort itself out. But the accepting part is another matter altogether. I suspect many will just move the goalposts.

[Duncan Grant]

21. Confirmation bias and belief systems are a fast way to "the truth".

An official from the prime minister’s office has now confirmed the story. Something so heinous will undoubtedly garner more reporting.

[BannonsLiver]

25. Some here will not accept it, though.

[inthewind21]

7. Forensic evidence?

Dismemberment doesn't require forensic evidence. Anyone can determine it.

[Disaffected]

11. A forensic examination would determine

how the dismemberment occurred (there are a number of possibilities).

[obamanut2012]

9. The US Gov't and Amnesty International confirmed Nayirah al-Ṣabaḥ's story about Kuwait

She even spoke to Congress about it. No babies were tossed from incubators in Kuwait. It was a hoax. Many of us remember this. Which is why we are skeptical.

************************************

Read the entire statement. They said they are taking the word of some unnamed soldiers and refuse to investigate if it's true, because they need to respect the dead. Which is not true -- they are filming and investigating everything about the invasion. Hell, they filmed the nursery at the kibbutz this was said to happen at. The French journalist who tweeted this deleted the tweet.

It is true or it is not true. It cannot be both, and I do not take, "trust me, bro."

All "but the news sources say" go back to i24TV. Who are friends of Bibi ie very Fox News.

I dislike this type of propo, and there needs to be independent collaboration.

I also think Hamas' spokesperson is a fucking liar.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. The spokespersons' name appear to be Jonathan Conricus, not "Cornices"

(autocorrect?)

see eg https://news.yahoo.com/children-found-butchered-israeli-kibbutz-030207720.html

(though "brutally butchered in an ISIS way of action" is the IDF quote there)

[madaboutharry]

22. Autocorrect doesn't want his name spelled correctly.

Thank you for the proper spelling.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

13. Whether it's true or not, it's propaganda, and people cannot wait to consume it.

[obamanut2012]

14. Thank you

Folks do not get this.

[RAB910]

15. Disgusting propaganda and the correction will reach a fraction of the people the fake story did

I can't help that this was a deliberate effort, rather than an honest accident

[redqueen]

20. +1

[sanatanadharma]

16. Parsing the emotional value of death by age, cause, because, neatness ...

... parsing, parsing, parsing, parsing, ...
... sad, sad, sad, sad ...

It is two adults per baby coming in and one baby to two adults going out.
Absolutely sad!
What ever is said!

[Baitball Blogger]

19. It is important to get down to the facts.

It might not change our perspective, but by showing that we have the will to investigate it will stop future terrorists from using this claim to trigger us. I don't know what other reaction they expect from us. Once you start talking about targeting women, children and especially babies, it generally gets the US to respond.

But I do recall that in the early days of the Iraq II war, they claimed that babies had been pulled out of incubators, and that did not turn out to be true. Just another attempt by the bad actors who wanted to use 9/11 to annihilate Sadaam.

[AntivaxHunters]

23. Here's the tweet

This is the reporter who broke the story & is now doing a full walk back

[Behind the Aegis]

24. That is NOT walking back, that is clarifying. There is a FUCKING difference.

[redqueen]

26. A clarification that will most likely not be made elsewhere

The MSM did its thing and all the kneejerking commenced as expected

And now we have Hamas trying to make this global 🙄

An eye for an eye...

[AntivaxHunters]

32. Ok

I disagree but you seem very upset. Rough day?

[NickB79]

28. Biden just confirmed children were decapitated

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218353560

So, this post aged really, really badly

[Bucky]

29. It's okay to be skeptical about horrific and extraordinary claims

Any rational person should be able to accept "Show me the proof" when there is a long history of exaggerated and misleading claims about atrocities going back to before the Spanish-American War.

It doesn't surprise me one bit that the Hamas terrorists did performance speak about acts on children of all ages. They wanted to be as monstrous as possible. They want to pull Israel into a street fighting occupation of Gaza. Fanatics are like that.

[meadowlander]

30. +100. When the drums of war are beating, our job is to think clearly and critically.

Part of that is asking for evidence before accepting claims at face value particularly claims that clearly serve the agenda of one side or the other. Those claims may end up being true, but the time spent questioning them is not wasted.

[The Magistrate]

31. I Agree, Sir

I maintained an uncertain mind in regard to details, this one particularly, and was not sure of it until recent confirmation from Mr. Biden.

[NickB79]

35. Except these weren't even that extraordinary of claims

In the last few days, Hamas gunned down hundreds of civilians at a music festival.

They indiscriminately killed women, children and elderly.

They kidnapped hundreds of civilians, including a Holocaust survivor, a d took them to use as human shields, and then threatened to execute them in retaliation for airstrikes.

They released video of kidnapped Jewish children being paraded around and poked with sticks.

They released pictures and video of kidnapped Jewish women with bloody crotches, presumably from being raped and/or sodomized.

Their charter calls for the destruction of Israel and death to Jews.

But the claim they cut off children's heads is too extraordinary for some people? Seriously? The space between the proven atrocities they've committed, and the alleged atrocity of dismembering babies, is narrow indeed. And the people who made it that narrow are Hamas themselves.

[Duncan Grant]

36. Biden said, "I never thought I'd see..."

“I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children. I never thought I’d ever — anyway,” Biden, 80, told leaders of Jewish groups at the White House.

I think this is true for many of us. Consequently, the post.

[Duncan Grant]

37. Biden didn't see photos of decapitated children.

Biden said it, now the White House says he didn’t see photos.

https://democraticunderground.com/100218354522

Obviously, Hamas has committed atrocities. That’s indisputable. I’d simply like to know - one way or another - if they were monstrous enough to decapitate babies, as originally reported.

[brooklynite]

33. President Biden says so....

Link to tweet

[Just_Vote_Dem]

34. +100 n/t