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LexVegas

(6,022 posts)
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 06:35 PM Oct 2023

I don't see how it is possible, but I have underestimated the pervasiveness of antisemitism.

It is everywhere, regardless of religion, political affiliation, race. I am not naive. I knew it was bad. I mean, thousands of years bad. But it's so much worse than even I could imagine.

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I don't see how it is possible, but I have underestimated the pervasiveness of antisemitism. (Original Post) LexVegas Oct 2023 OP
It really is. It has many layers. But usually ask a few questions boston bean Oct 2023 #1
Nothing like 'human nature,' eh? elleng Oct 2023 #2
It's getting worse AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #3
Swastikas scratched on kids locker this wee k in so calif Demovictory9 Oct 2023 #6
It's happening everywhere AntivaxHunters Oct 2023 #15
Yeah, it's been kinda eye opening. Elessar Zappa Oct 2023 #4
I think it has been unleashed for any number of reasons in recent years. Societal containment hlthe2b Oct 2023 #5
Yes, it's that bad. yardwork Oct 2023 #7
Because there are not large numbers of Jews anywhere except Israel. applegrove Oct 2023 #8
There are large numbers of Jews here in the US, particularly in cities like NY and LA LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #19
But they are still a small minority in most of the country. Persecutors are wimps. applegrove Oct 2023 #23
persecutors are wimps? LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #47
Taking on a minority, weak in numbers, to persecute. Wimpy. As well applegrove Oct 2023 #48
Ah, yes LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #52
That whole false thing about MSNBC censoring three Muslim reporters... BlueCheeseAgain Oct 2023 #9
Yes, I figured that LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #18
I can't believe I overlooked that part of it! AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #50
Now let's talk about the hatred of MOMFUDSKI Oct 2023 #10
Yep Chi67 Oct 2023 #16
That deserves its own thread. Beastly Boy Oct 2023 #27
Yup. ismnotwasm Oct 2023 #11
Palestinians and Hamas swong19104 Oct 2023 #12
You cannot redefine words to advance an agenda. nt LexVegas Oct 2023 #14
Proud Deplorables? czarjak Oct 2023 #38
No, "antisemitism" is specifically defined to refer to anti-Jewish sentiment LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #17
And pedophiles are "lovers of children". Behind the Aegis Oct 2023 #28
How many Palestinians and Hamas have been victims of antisemitism? Beastly Boy Oct 2023 #29
No. ismnotwasm Oct 2023 #39
There are likelly a fair amount of Jewish people in Palestine ColinC Oct 2023 #45
One reason is becsuse people only want to see anti semitism JI7 Oct 2023 #13
Yes, it is sad. But I how are you defining antisemitism? LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #20
Both. nt LexVegas Oct 2023 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author Beastly Boy Oct 2023 #31
This might help: Beastly Boy Oct 2023 #32
Sadly, SpamWyzer Oct 2023 #21
Antisemitism against Jews persists and manifests in many ways, though I have a question: Martin Eden Oct 2023 #22
Of course it's possible. Beastly Boy Oct 2023 #35
I'm really disheartened by it Dorian Gray Oct 2023 #24
Yes, I think it is, but why? TeamProg Oct 2023 #25
I think it is always there. Just below the surface...nt LexVegas Oct 2023 #34
The bullhorn that is Social Media helps build the hate... yobrault1 Oct 2023 #26
OMG, Twitter is a cess pool. nt LexVegas Oct 2023 #33
"Jews Don't Count" and "People Love Dead Jews" Behind the Aegis Oct 2023 #36
I will check those out. nt LexVegas Oct 2023 #41
I've lived it PCIntern Oct 2023 #37
I cannot imagine but many of us join the fight against hate. nt LexVegas Oct 2023 #40
Just to clarify: you are not lumping in all pro Palestinian opinions into "anti-semitism," are you? ColinC Oct 2023 #42
No DemocratSinceBirth Oct 2023 #43
That's rather blatant ColinC Oct 2023 #44
Oh, shock horror! Aussie105 Oct 2023 #46
I feel the same. My better half is Ashkenazi, and his Goddessartist Oct 2023 #49
It is even worse when one factors in microagressions. Behind the Aegis Oct 2023 #51

boston bean

(36,217 posts)
1. It really is. It has many layers. But usually ask a few questions
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 06:40 PM
Oct 2023

and it reveals itself. Very worrying.

 

AntivaxHunters

(3,234 posts)
3. It's getting worse
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 06:48 PM
Oct 2023

As we've seen the massive rise in hate groups.
There are literal Nazi's standing in front of Disney waving a Nazi flag & holding DeSantis 2024 signs.

This country is losing it fast....

hlthe2b

(102,085 posts)
5. I think it has been unleashed for any number of reasons in recent years. Societal containment
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 06:56 PM
Oct 2023

seems to be failing throughout the Western world--as it has long been elsewhere. Nationalist populist movements and politicians have certainly added to the problem.

applegrove

(118,452 posts)
8. Because there are not large numbers of Jews anywhere except Israel.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 07:23 PM
Oct 2023

Most persecutors are wimps so they attack a group that does not have strength in numbers. I mean Jews did ot colonize Africa/Asia/South America and make war in Europe, Christians did. They only did that on land they had an historical claim to.

applegrove

(118,452 posts)
48. Taking on a minority, weak in numbers, to persecute. Wimpy. As well
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 11:46 AM
Oct 2023

as deranged. Evil. and all the rest.

BlueCheeseAgain

(1,654 posts)
9. That whole false thing about MSNBC censoring three Muslim reporters...
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 07:26 PM
Oct 2023

That wasn't just misinformation. It was a direct appeal to the tired old bigoted idea that Jews run the media.

(To be clear, I'm not saying that those on DU who believed it knew that. But the roots of this kind of conspiratorial thinking are unmistakeable.)

AZSkiffyGeek

(10,954 posts)
50. I can't believe I overlooked that part of it!
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 04:44 PM
Oct 2023

I guess at some point the pervasive antisemitism overwhelmed my ability to discern the dogwhistles.

MOMFUDSKI

(5,402 posts)
10. Now let's talk about the hatred of
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 07:32 PM
Oct 2023

blacks, browns, gays, trans, religions, “others”, and many more. The fight to be on top of the hill may never end.

Chi67

(1,064 posts)
16. Yep
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 07:54 PM
Oct 2023

We all know how bad hate is in this country. Hell, in many states now trans folks can't even get the healthcare they need. Gay and black civil rights can't be taught in many schools. The Holocaust is being denied. We have to all band together to fight the right in this country. It has to stop!

Behind the Aegis

(53,914 posts)
28. And pedophiles are "lovers of children".
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:16 PM
Oct 2023

Perhaps every person here, who has professed their love for children, really would be OK with being labeled as a pedophile. Or not.

"Homophobia" is not the fear of sameness either.

ColinC

(8,275 posts)
45. There are likelly a fair amount of Jewish people in Palestine
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 09:19 PM
Oct 2023

But non-Jewish folks are not the targets of the word "anti-semitism" by definition.

JI7

(89,236 posts)
13. One reason is becsuse people only want to see anti semitism
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 07:47 PM
Oct 2023

specifically as white Christian nazis being anti Jewish.



LymphocyteLover

(5,635 posts)
20. Yes, it is sad. But I how are you defining antisemitism?
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:01 PM
Oct 2023

As blatant hate of Jews? Or are you including more subtle concepts that people may perpetrate without knowing it is antisemitic?

Response to LymphocyteLover (Reply #20)

Beastly Boy

(9,225 posts)
32. This might help:
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:28 PM
Oct 2023
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”


Accompanying the IHRA Definition are eleven examples that “may serve as illustrations” of how antisemitism manifests contemporaneously, ranging from age-old anti-Jewish tropes, to Holocaust denial, to certain expressions of animus toward the Jewish State of Israel that may at times cross the line into antisemitism. These examples are important, because while certain longstanding myths animating antisemitism have stood the test of millennia, manifestations of antisemitism do change, sometimes significantly, over time and place. It is important to provide guidance built on the knowledge of experts in the field, as well as the lived experience of large segments of the Jewish population.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/about-ihra-working-definition-antisemitism
 

SpamWyzer

(385 posts)
21. Sadly,
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:04 PM
Oct 2023

antisemitism has fueled many a pogrom, razzia and massacre. Scapegoating is a common practice. It dehumanizes the target group, ascribes blame for imaginary crimes and seeks retributive vengeance as a form of dangerous "justice". It flares up in times of war but is lurking in many hearts all the time. I can say without any irony or comedy intended, some of my dearest friends are Jewish and they have been true, kind and decent all the years I have had them as a blessing in my life. I know this is not what was meant by "the chosen people"...Peace on everyone. STOP THE WARS!

Martin Eden

(12,841 posts)
22. Antisemitism against Jews persists and manifests in many ways, though I have a question:
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:06 PM
Oct 2023

Is it possible to criticize policies of the Israeli government without being prejudiced against Jews or their religion, while supporting the right of Israel to exist?

Each and every one of us needs to look inside ourselves honestly, and question whether we unintentionally or consciously exhibit prejudice. Stereotypes can be pervasive, requiring conscious effort to root them out.

Also pervasive, often as a political cudgel for many years, is to hurl accusations of antisemitism at those who have honest and well meaning objections to some of the policies, especially the rightwing Likud party.

All I ask is an honest effort to avoid painting with too broad a brush.

Peace,
Martin

Beastly Boy

(9,225 posts)
35. Of course it's possible.
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:48 PM
Oct 2023

Just look at the countless Israelis protesting against judicial reform for months.
It becomes problematic and borderline antisemitic when Israel is criticized as if it is a bad guy character out of a comic book, and all its diversity is ignored.

yobrault1

(95 posts)
26. The bullhorn that is Social Media helps build the hate...
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:14 PM
Oct 2023

As in the past, with every advancement in how we communicate comes the rise of blustering sociopaths that use communications to foment hate. Antisemitism is low hanging fruit, not bc people love to hate Jews but because someone somewhere will love to blame a whole group of people for their lot in life. It’s much easier to hate others than to find something to love about yourself. People who feel worthless are easy fodder for a sociopath’s hate machine. Social Media is the new hate engine and now a sociopath has purchased a platform and added jet fuel to the equation.

Behind the Aegis

(53,914 posts)
36. "Jews Don't Count" and "People Love Dead Jews"
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:49 PM
Oct 2023

Both are excellent books and worth the read. If you can find time, I suggest both. They are available on Audible. There are also some other great books on the topic that I have read, if interested, let me know.

PCIntern

(25,461 posts)
37. I've lived it
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 08:51 PM
Oct 2023

It is difficult in some circumstances to awaken in the morning and face the day in a particular context.

ColinC

(8,275 posts)
42. Just to clarify: you are not lumping in all pro Palestinian opinions into "anti-semitism," are you?
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 09:07 PM
Oct 2023

Does my concern over the deaths of innocent civilians in Palestine -as an isolated concern (not as deflection) count as anti-Semitic?

I do recall certain congress folks being disciplined simply over this concern when the current Hamas terrorism was not yet an issue.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,708 posts)
43. No
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 09:10 PM
Oct 2023

But I have seen posts that Orthodox Jews don't have the right to feel safe wearing their traditional garb or that Jews don't have the right to feel safe eating at a kosher restaurant.

Aussie105

(5,315 posts)
46. Oh, shock horror!
Mon Oct 16, 2023, 09:39 PM
Oct 2023

People being suspicious and mistreating members of a group they recognise as being not like the group they identify with goes by many names.

Racism.
Xenophobia.
Ageism.
Sexism.
Antisemitism.
Cultism.

Then there are those forms of discrimination I don't have specific names for - like language, religion, eye colour, political affiliation, gun humpers, etc.

Sticking a label on a situation that you perceive to be not-quite-right solves nothing.

What are you going to do about it - that should be the question.


Goddessartist

(1,753 posts)
49. I feel the same. My better half is Ashkenazi, and his
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 12:41 PM
Oct 2023

Mom and sisters all are horrified. There's a street in Israel named after their relative. Szold Street I believe.

Behind the Aegis

(53,914 posts)
51. It is even worse when one factors in microagressions.
Tue Oct 17, 2023, 04:51 PM
Oct 2023

These range from "redefining" anti-Semitism ("aren't Palestinians Semites too?&quot , to "questioning" if they can ever question Israel and it not be anti-Semitic (this is a popular whine), to asking, innocently of course, if support for Palestinians is "anti-Semitic", to regaling people about their Jewish family members/people they have or continue to fuck who are Jews, or their instance of once seeing a Jew on TV precludes their being, or even saying anything, anti-Semitic, to claiming criticism of Israel/Israelis is never anti-Semitic, to Jews aren't "really" a minority, and to claiming that anti-Semitism simply doesn't exist on the left.

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