Sorry, this new version of DU is not an improvement. On the previous version...

[brush]

every action you wanted to take was right there in front of your eyes at the top, Home, latest threads, greatest threads, messages, start a discussion, all the other navigation tabs on the left. Current threads in the center well, videos and other topics on the right.

This version requires extra steps to get to where you want to go.
Why?

[stopdiggin]

1. first run at this for me

and I'll try to give it a fair hearing ..
But, my initial impression kind of parallels yours ..
(it takes more poking around, and effort - with less at immediate disposal - than the prior version)

[tojina]

45. Please bring back the old layout

The layout of the old site was much more functional and readable. Everything important was prominently displayed. You could read the breaking news column on the right/middle top and get 1st paragraph summaries of the important stories of the hour/day. Now the breaking news column is buried at the bottom right with no summaries (just headlines). The breaking news column is the most important, and it has been demoted (almost removed from the page). Why?

I have been a long time hourly visitor to this site, my go to site for breaking news and trending posts and videos (which are gone). Please bring back the old layout. I registered just to try skinner mode, which doesn't fix the layout.

Tell me this isn't better: https://web.archive.org/web/20231015081014/https://democraticunderground.com/

[TomSlick]

52. Change your settings to Skinner Mode.

It looks and feels like the old system but with helpful upgrades.

[LoveMyCali]

67. I tried Skinner Mode

and it was even worse, if you can imagine that.

[DemocraticPatriot]

69. In what way ?

As long as the general appearance is the same, I'm happy. I can figure out minor changes in navigation, but the total change of appearance was too much of a shock to my system.... LOL

[LoveMyCali]

72. The picture of the day

Overlaps the topics along the side. I still had to click on either Navigate or My Stuff only it was just tabs along the top instead of the big blue buttons. Just the size of everything, bigger isn't always better.

[relayerbob]

126. I agree

[tojina]

70. the layout is bad, even in skinner mode

Skinner mode doesn't fix the layout. Breaking news is still relegated to the bottom right out of view. And when I zoom (which is necessary for many of us to read), the breaking news 1st paragraph summaries disappear, and what remains is the headlines. The site is broken.

[DemocraticPatriot]

85. Like I said somewhere, I use the Home page for practically nothing,

so I suppose I am fortunate in that respect. If I was more dependent on it, I might be unhappy over something about it......

I usually click on one story link on that page to enter the forum, read the story, and then click to the index of either Late-Breaking News or General Discussion....

[canetoad]

181. The site is NOT broken

Working perfectly well for me and more readable (accessible) due to improved fontography and leading.

"Broken" seems to be a catch-all whine when folks find things not to their exact liking.

[edisdead]

189. Almost like people think tweaks can't be made.

Working MUCH better for me now too.

We have 2 people working on a 2 decade plus old site.

I was a bit hypercritical day one too then it dawned on me to slip into helper mode. Report your findings, your likes, dislikes, provide your device type, operating system, browser and time of issue and let the devs figure it out.

They can and probably will tailor the site to the general audiences wishes but they won’t get it all 100% right off the bat. We should be a more understanding and patient usergroup rather than “I will take my ball and go home”…. By the way. Where else is there to go? Reddit I suppose?

[Tumbulu]

107. Why is there no "Home Page" anymore?

or is it somewhere that I have not figured out yet how to find?

I went to Skinner Mode, but still no "Home Page".

I do like being able to like comments.

[Bongo Prophet]

161. Can you see the big "Democratic Underground" at the top center? It's a direct link to the HOME PAGE.

That's been a web design standard for decades.
Hope that helps.

[Ohiya]

169. Thanks, I didn't know that.

You learn something every day.

[Tumbulu]

170. Thank you!!!!

It does!

[Bird Lady]

163. Skinner mode

Skinner mode is greyed out so I am stuck with something I hate.

[progree]

93. Earl G reply on the missing LBN summaries --

Earl G responded:

Do you happen to know what your screen size is on your Windows computer?
The LBN blurbs should only be removed on quite small screens (otherwise the right column gets very long). I just want to make sure you're getting the right version of the page.

I answered that I have a 24" monitor. But I'm glad to see that he thinks the blurbs (the 50 or so words) should be there.

I'm sad that LBN is put at the bottom. It, and the 5 trending threads and the 5 greatest threads are the most important and things I want to look at first.

[bobby202]

176. Why not a old & new like reddit?

[NYC Liberal]

2. Go to your account settings and switch to "Skinner mode"

The design is very similar to DU3 but with the new features of DU4.

[Rebl2]

32. Tried that

Won’t let me change to skinner mode

[Wonder Why]

47. You have to be a Star member

[Rebl2]

49. I am

[Celerity]

55. You have to 'save settings' before it switches over

[GP6971]

90. Try going to Settings

and click on Restore Default Settings. Worked for me.

[TomSlick]

53. I didn't have any trouble.

Did you check to apply the new setting?

[live love laugh]

172. Skinner mode is not like old DU or close except for links vs. buttons.

[Tarzanrock]

3. I did that -- this new format SUCKS!

I did that -- this new format SUCKS!

[NCWilm]

4. Please go back to the old version of DU

Just joined DU but have been reading religiously for maybe 15 years. I have loved this site for that time. I only joined to voice my feelings about how HORRIBLE the new layout is. Never make updates which makes it harder to find things on or to use a site. Website creation 101. Just saying.

[BigOleDummy]

8. Agreed

Welcome to DU

[bobby202]

25. Very agreed

[BigOleDummy]

28. Welcome

Welcome to the family here

[TomSlick]

57. Change your settings to Skinner Mode.

[eppur_se_muova]

98. Skinner mode is grayed out unless you set "use large fonts" to NO. nt

[TomSlick]

99. Change "Use Large Fonts" to No.

[edisdead]

124. If you have to do tricks to use a website

If you have to do tricks to use a website… That website sucks!!! And this is the worst I have seen since the late 90’s.

There is no polishing this turd. This is terrible.

[NCWilm]

185. Agreed

The site is virtually useless now. I used to follow it for news and updates. Now it's lije the latest discussions list stuff from 4 days ago!
I'm slowly weaning myself off the site now.

[electric_blue68]

187. Couldn't have been that important if you're not willing to do what you consider extra work...

doesn't feel like much extra to me
(I'm on mobile view)

[NCWilm]

193. Thank you

Well you literally just made my point, lol. An upgrade to a website should obviously cause less work for the users not more work and be more cumbersome. Why would anyone upgrade something that causes more work?

Hey, the new iphone 15 now has a rotary dial wheel built onto it that you're forced to use instead of the touch screen. Plus the entire operating system only shows apps from iphone 1! More work but hey you'll get used to it!

[TheRickles]

116. Way too much scrolling now, with all the empty space (even in Skinner mode).

[XanaDUer2]

135. Agreed nt

[ananda]

5. Agree. It's not as efficient and easy, but at least it's still DU.

That's the main thing.

[Sessuch]

31. Did Microsoft write this version

Not very intuitive. Go here, go there, to get where you want you go.

[Rebl2]

33. Exactly

Not user friendly

[vapor2]

44. totally AGREE

[madaboutharry]

6. Everything does seem harder to do.

[TomSlick]

58. Change your settings to Skinner Mode.

It feels like the old version.

[madaboutharry]

60. It won't let me.

The Skinner mode choice is faded out and doesn’t work when I try to pick the circle.

[TomSlick]

63. I didn't have any problems.

Go to Navigate>Help & Search

[MrsCoffee]

113. Try turning off large fonts first.

[Eugene]

133. Skinner mode is easier to read, but navigation is still essentially DU4.

Finding groups is a pain in the neck.
The old DU3 sidebar gave access to everything.

[ratchiweenie]

155. I agree. Skinner mode helps but new version has way too much wasted white space and is much

clunkier and involves more steps. If in fact, it makes it easier to use on my phone, that may be a plus since I do use it at all my doctors and rehab appointments these days. I will make my self learn to use it but I was fine with the old version. I did not think it was broken. Thought it was quite professional in fact.

[Emile]

7. If we don't change, we don't grow. .

Jump in and join the dance.

[pazzyanne]

13. I feel like I'm wandering in the wilderness.

Really miss having everything right in front of me. I feel lost most of the time. I did change my account settings to Skinner Classic, but it didn't help much.

[Emile]

14. Give it a chance. Once you learn how to navigate it

I think you're gonna love it.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

17. The "Skinner Classic Mode" allows one to read thread titles better.

While using the upgrades.

I went to Account Settings and scrolled down. I find this easier.

[shrike3]

159. How does one get to account settings? I can't find it.

This is a lot of bother, but I suppose that happens any time there's a website upgrade.

[shrike3]

160. Disregard the last post. Just found 'em.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

184. That's if you're able to pay

Not everyone is.

Thanks for the privilege talk.

[bobby202]

26. All this is a No thank's for me !

[brush]

38. Change for change sake is questionable. Change for improvement, yes. IMO though this is not an improvement...just different.

[Rebl2]

41. Agreed

It looks like something from the nineties

[burrowowl]

153. Reminds me of the smirking chimp layout

which wasn’t the best.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

183. We don't have to agree with you

You do realize that, right?

I've tried both. Still prefer the old one for getting to the parts of the forum I prefer.

All the culture groups that used to be easy to get to from the sidebar menu? They're now gone, with everything now lumped together like filth in a dumpster.

I don't want to have to dig through every other group's posts to get to music or book posts. That's terrible design, no matter how one tries to pretend otherwise.

[Fullduplexxx]

9. I wonder who felt it needed to be changed and why?

[Rebl2]

34. Good question

[diane in sf]

10. Completely left brain and non visual. I want the old version back. Navigation is now very Rube Goldberg.

[thesquanderer]

89. One thing I like... you can now REC individual replies.

I just REC'd yours.

[Amaryllis]

11. Where are greatest threads now? Can't find.

[Emile]

12. Click the DU on the top and that brings up the home

page

[Marthe48]

37. You can also click on Navigate

and there is a Greatest Discussions link.

[Rebl2]

42. I like to look

at photography, pets, football, food. Can’t find any of that now. So frustrating 🤬

[Marthe48]

48. Go to Navigate

Then click on CULTURE FORUMS. I see SPORTS, PHOTOGRAPHY, PETS, FOOTBALL and COOKING AND BAKING, and many more.

[littlemissmartypants]

206. All you have to do is find it once and subscribe to your favorites.

Then when there are posts in your favorites you will be notified via the MY STUFF button. Click there and you'll see SUBSCRIPTIONS in the left column and click there. Scroll down and you can click through to the posts listed by title for each one of your subscriptions.

[diane in sf]

109. Thanks because I didn't have a clue how to get there. That looks more familiar in Skinner mode, but the type

is tiny.

[GP6971]

18. Aren't you special! Bye!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

100. What?

[LuckyCharms]

19. Ever watch a dog fuck a football?

[Emile]

40. LOL

[Emile]

20. Welcome to du

or not.

[Wounded Bear]

16. Meh, about the only thing "bugging" me is the extra space on screen...

Things are more spread out, with a lot of blank space. Seems a bit inefficient. I suppose it looks better on a phone now, but I don't use my phone for this, so...

I'm sure I'll get used to it. Change is good, blah, blah, blah.

[Owl]

24. Yes way too much wasted white space.

Spread out too much. Scroll, scroll, scroll.

[consider_this]

91. Skinner mode fixed that horrendous problem for me. EOM

[TheRickles]

117. Yes, which requires too much scrolling. Harder on the eyes, and brain.

[gulliver]

21. The "new paragraph" spacing on a new line is awkward.

If you hit Enter at the end of a line, the new line is too close to the line you just typed.
For example, this line. And now let's make this new line wrap by typing a long string of words so that those words wrap when viewed afterward. Notice all these lines are equally spaced vertically, even though I hit enter (for a new paragraph) at the end of the first sentence.

[DemocraticPatriot]

87. Maybe hit enter twice?

Seems like I had to do that on the old version, as well... but I don't know.

[gulliver]

102. Maybe, but I don't think I had to do that before.

Not sure.

[ClearSky24]

22. I knew this would happen...

The spirit of old DU is gone.

Why change something that was timeless into something that is timely?

[edisdead]

127. this is completely ridiculous

Why would anyone want to switch to this?

Did they even bother to look at mobile version?

It is like someone just discovered css and basic html and went playing around. I mean flashing backgrounds for a like that doesn’t even fit in the background?

TERRIBLE usage of space and spacing.

Guys this isn’t just bad…. It is REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD.

Sure if you go tweak this and set this setting before that setting you may get something usable. But this…. This is a major clusterfuck.
I have been writing web based apps and managing forums for over 20 years. This is the worst I have seen.

[electric_blue68]

188. 🤔 while layout is important isn't the purpose, and people's interactions the...

Majority of that *spirit*? 👍

[northoftheborder]

23. Cannot use DU 4 on ipad

For some reason du4 opens with HUGE font. Like a larger font but I’m unable to view the whole page. Cannot scroll to make changes on My Stuff because cannot scroll to see the whole list. Cannot post replies because cannot see the “post reply” box after typing the reply. This is on my phone which is difficult to type and read. Haven’t tried computer yet.

Help - need to use iPad.

[herding cats]

36. Check your font size on safari.

Click the AA at the far left of the address bar and see what the font is set on.

[northoftheborder]

119. Thanks

Thanks - don’t know why I didn’t think of that. Fixed the “doesn’t fit on page” problem.

[Unwind Your Mind]

54. Similar here

IPad and iPhone also appear to be black text on black ground in Safari

I’m only here via Facebook

[chillfactor]

27. I do not like this new format

harder to navigate....

[Rebl2]

39. Exactly

Harder to navigate. If I was new to it, I would take a pass on it. Change it back!

[William769]

29. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[jeffreyi]

30. Well, we will accustom ourselves.

The important question...were the smilies updated?

[NCcoast]

35. They have 'Retired' the Multi Media forum?

I loved the Media content. As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Uncle Joe]

59. I liked that page, the Media reminded me of the pics on the front of a USA Today Newspaper,

Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

it jumped out and grabbed the viewers attention.

[Lemonwurst]

43. I think it is...

Never tried the Beta like others here did, but my initial impression is that DU4 looks current. We do seem to have a higher percentage of older contributors (myself included), and it’s important to attract younger viewers - even if DU4 seems radical to those of us comfortable with the original navigation.

Change is hard, but inevitable, and eventually good. Whatever is lost should be called out, but only to advance the new, not to enshrine the old.

[agingdem]

152. Exactly...I'm 75 and it took me all of 5 minutes to

"drive" the new beta format.....change is good...yesterday, during downtime, I was in severe DU "withdrawal"... I'll take Democratic Underground anyway I can get it...

[Marthe48]

46. This is a link to the new format DU Home Page

The pic of the day shows what is included in the NAVIGATE button, how to sign in and what is included in the MY STUFF button:
https://democraticunderground.com/index.php

If you click on the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND banner in the center of the page, you will get to the home page.

I don't know for certain, but I bet the new version isn't just cosmetic. I bet there are more protections built in so the site doesn't get hacked.

Just have patience and poke around to see where things are. If you get lost, you can use your browser buttons if you need to. You can go back to a page you were on, and once you go back the forward arrow will work, too.

[KatK]

50. So far I like DU4. Way easier on the eyes. Navigate button shows where everything is.

I'm sorry that so many aren't enjoying it! The white space and font and organization make it easier for my eyes and brain to see what's here.

Clicking on the Navigate button does not seem inconvenient to me. I wonder if people have a kind of mouse that makes clicking a pain?

[relayerbob]

128. Maybe for your eyes

The bright version is so bright, and the fonts so narrow, it hurts my eyes. At least the dark mode is tolerable, but still much harder to read, even with large fonts,

[XanaDUer2]

139. How to switch to dark mode?

This is killing my eyes

[relayerbob]

140. Go to..

My stuff and look for the settings. Scroll down a bit, and you’ll see it as a small button. You can also slightly enlarge the font.

[XanaDUer2]

141. TYVM. This is awful eom

[relayerbob]

145. Not a step in the right direction

[XanaDUer2]

148. Dark mode is a bit better

Eom

[Wonder Why]

51. Names wlll be taken and the Gulags reopened. Do not stand near windows.

[brush]

198. A professional web designer would've helped make this rollout sucessful. He/she would've tested, tweeked...

and fixed all these bugs before putting it out. Re-designs should make things better/easier, not leave users questioning and wondering how to do one thing or how to get to another.

[Wonder Why]

199. Professionals NEVER make mistakes or do a bad job! Right!

Earl and, I am sure, many others, did a great job.

[brush]

200. They don't put out a product with this many bugs if they want to stay in business.

This from a design professional of 35-some years in business.

[malthaussen]

56. I agree. Version 3 was fine, good even. Why the change? n/t

[ancianita]

62. +1

[Wounded Bear]

118. I assume it was to make it more friendly for phone users...

I don't do this on my phone, so it doesn't "help" me much.

Probably works better on a touch screen device, which I also don't use.

Oh well, I soldier on.

[edisdead]

131. It is not more friendly for phone users

It is…. Well I can’t say. But it is a MASSIVE fail.

[bikes and bunnies]

61. I AGREE! I Hate the New Format!!!

I've been a lurker for years. I signed up just to change the settings back to the old format, which was much more accessible, visually. I have an eye condition that makes discerning lines of text more difficult, and visual accessibility is important for me.

Unfortunately, the directions for how to change it back to the old "skinner" mode do not work.
Pro-tip says go to: "My Stuff- to- Account settings- to- Visual Appearance- to- Skinner Mode," but when I followed this path, I did not see "Visual Appearance" after "Account Settings."
Nowhere was this option visible, and I checked it several times with my wife, who does not have visual problems.

The new format is linear and unappealing, like an old WordPress page from 30 years ago. I don't want to be unpleasant in my very first post, but whoever designed it has no sense of graphic design whatsoever. Sorry. Please change it back!!! I implore you!!!

-bikes and bunnies

[ClearSky24]

82. Unfortunately,

It only works for the star members.

[Abolishinist]

64. I have several complaints.

First of all, the size of the fonts is too large. I use windows, which means in "Settings" I can increase the overall font size by 25%, 50%, etc. I imagine most people find a font size they like and go from there. THIS one seems to be at least 25% larger than my current 100% setting. If there was a way to reduce the size for this site only that might work, but when doing so it carries this setting forward to all of my other tabs. And yet, if you go to the site settings on DU, the only option is to actually INCREASE the already too large font. Why not a "Decrease Font Size" selection as well?

Second, there is now a huge "upper margin" at the top of the page. That, along with the increase in font size, means that where I could view, say, six posts in the past, now I get, at best, two with part of a third. Too much scrolling through posts whose font size are too large to begin with.

Third, at the bottom, the boxes for "Top" and "Alert" take up a whole line on their own... why not place them in the line with "Share" and "Powers" and save a bit of space.

Fortunately, the "Skinner" version is OK by me, but not everyone has access to that. And I have to believe that a first-time user who happens upon the site will be more likely to move on because of this new format.

[NBachers]

65. EDIT: I took down my "I don't like it" post and I'm taking the time to get used to the new one. I'll give it a chance.

Last edited Wed Oct 18, 2023, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[SouthernDem4ever]

66. I don't like having to search for new video posts

They used to be down the right side of the front page. Can they be put back there again?

[Marthe48]

81. Click on NAVIGATE

There is a Latest Videos button

[SouthernDem4ever]

94. Ohhh thanks!! A little inconvenient but it worked.

[Marthe48]

96. You're welcome!

[GuppyGal]

68. You'll get used to it

why no new emoji's for goodness sake?

[DemocraticPatriot]

71. Sounds like you spend a lot of time on the home page. I never did...

I click a link to the first post that interests me, and navigate from there....

[OverBurn]

73. I agree with most, do not dig it.

I switch to the Skinner Mode, after having to become a Star Member.

The Skinner Mode with the Dark theme would be awesome.

[MikeIsInProcess]

74. I FOUND A SOLUTION

I too thought this new site layout looked absolutely awful.

However, when somebody commented on spacing, I realized at some point I had zoomed into the old page.

I zoomed back out (command-minus on a mac, control-minus on a Windows POS)

and now the page looks very tolerable with three main columns (plus that space-sucking sidebar I don't need) that can be viewed in an overview fashion.

If you zoomed in at some point, probably so you didn't have to put on your reading glasses, try zooming back out, The formatting will begin to make sense.

[ancianita]

75. Welp, it takes some getting used to. Gotta say I like the "Milestone" column that lists past OP's

OP's with milestone recs and replies. It recognizes what the nets call "effort posts," along with thread engagement.

Kinda cool that EarlG and/or admins thought that kind of topic/opinion context from the DU archives would be useful for current readers and lurkers.



So far, I'm with you, brush.
Visuals matter. I loved the more colorful, warm feel of the old Home Page where four columns of everything important where available to everyone. It had a welcoming form and function for users.

The new site's visual field looks so boxy, so sterile, just black, white and blue.
No matter what the big black banner says about "friendly forums" and "passionate Dems," the site pages seem colder, less inviting.
Form follows function -- the form here has more the feel of a business site, less the feel of a political community site.

[Collimator]

77. Change is the way of the Universe and So is resistance to change.

I know that I am completely lost here now and may be unable to adapt. But, hey, that's my issue. My comfort is not the primary driver of this community.

All the same, time alone will tell whether this new format will be the horseless carriage or New Coke.

[llmart]

78. I have to agree with you and most on this thread.

First, I had trouble figuring out how to get the Home page. It's not intuitive to click on the "Democratic Underground" banner. I eventually figured it out, but it shouldn't be that difficult. I also agree with the other posters who say the fonts are way too large, and this is coming from someone who has vision problems. I wear glasses and they along with making the font larger through my settings was easy enough. It seems you have to scroll a lot more just to read some posts.

I like the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[senseandsensibility]

79. I can't start a discussion!

I can't even start a discussion in the help forum to ask why not. All I get is a blank white box with no space for title, etc. Everything else works fine, but I don't know how to fix this or let Elad know.

[ItsjustMe]

84. I have a similar issue

I can post, but everything is shrunk down. When I paste in the title post, I can only see the first 3 or 4 words.

[MyMission]

201. Maybe you need to be a star member to post?

That would make sense, so the website doesn't get bombarded by trolls.

[Red Oak]

80. The old site front page contained more info.

The old site front page, while not very pretty, did contain a wealth of densely packed information.

The new site is less dense, with more scrolling or clicking involved to get to the same information.

DU4 may grow on me, but right now I don't feel it is an improvement over DU3.

[kiri]

101. new site has much to be humble about

The mountain that labored and brought forth a mouse.

What did the admin want to achieve?

[laurieu]

83. Having a hard time finding things.

Everything used to be right there.

[cilla4progress]

86. I changed visual appearance to Skinner

and like the look

[LuvLoogie]

88. I'm in IT. Things change.

It's different enough to give a jolt, but suspect most will get used to it in short order.

I like the look.

It may be that the new layout is easier to manage or takes advantage of some new back end capabilities.

[edisdead]

134. Come on...

This is about the worst css ever.
It is completely amateur and lacks any design coherency.

I also am from IT. Work on a LAMP stack all day long and this is garbage.

[LuvLoogie]

175. Really. It's not that serious.

[Snooper9]

143. Sure-

They are able to compress all the white space into a separate times-ten database

[slightlv]

92. Took me a little while, but I've got the left side to my favorite forums

marked for easy access. Wasn't exactly idiot proof the first time around... but I appreciate being able to put the entire list over there!

[ForgedCrank]

95. I have

to admit, so far I'm not a huge fan either. Everything takes so much screen space now, it's no longer condensed.

[LPBBEAR]

97. I too hate the new version.

I also find the comments disparaging those of us who don't care for this change as somehow unable to change etc. pretty obnoxious. In point of fact the old home page, which is where I spent most of my time, was laid out better. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. View the link provided by another member for comparison. https://web.archive.org/web/20231015081014/https://democraticunderground.com/
The difference is stark.
I've been involved with computers for decades and used the Internet since the early days. I've seen numerous sites do something like this, change for the sake of change. Crooks And Liars comes to mind. Used to be a great site to visit and read, now not so much.
I experimented with account settings and managed a little improvement. At least that ridiculous floating bar went away. Not sure how I got rid of that but its gone. Otherwise I still dislike this new version.
One of the original reasons I joined this site was exactly because I really liked how the home page was laid out. A simple solution would be to offer an option to have that "theme" as a choice in account settings. Although I have a feeling most of us would opt for that option and this version would become a ghost town in comparison.
So please either change the site back or offer the option to have the earlier home page without the requirement of being a Star Member not that I mind kicking some money to the site. Actually make the earlier home page the default and this version an option in account settings. Which is probably the way it should have been rolled out in the first place.

[littlemissmartypants]

208. Clicking the link makes me cry. I'll never get used to this "new" DU.

I know that I'm already spending way less time reading here. I'm so sad someone forced the change. We should have had a funeral.

The old look is that of a distinguish and well organized newspaper. It looks and reads better.

The two things I like about the change are dark mode and being able to preview DU mail before you send it. That's it so far.

[ThoughtCriminal]

103. Ah - the "Navigate" button is my friend

But I would like to have that menu without having to click on that button.

[ebbie15644]

104. Agree

[Chakaconcarne]

105. I feel bad for all the effort put into creating the new site

and it could be I just need to get used to it, but so far not liking it... I felt like the main page pre DU-4 was a great dashboard to navigate about...

Still willing to give it some time... but if the frustration persists it's going to be hard to visit as frequently as I did, which was easilly multiple times per day.

[milan755803]

106. Terrible change

I really do not like the new format. It is not user friendly and I miss the videos as well. You stopped the cartoons, now this mess.

[MN2theMax]

108. Change is hard

But, wow, the updated site has only been up for a handful of hours. Give it a chance folks! If I had worked for months on changes to try to better the site, and the instant it went live 100 people’s response was, “I hate this!” I would be incredibly discouraged.

How about we take this for a month long test drive and see what it can do? I appreciate the hard work that went into these changes, and I’m going to give it a fair look chance and Avoid the instant negativity. Keep an open mind and chill out a bit. Without spending a huge amount of time, I can already appreciate some of the changes, and am sure there are more great features yet to be discovered.

Peace to you all.

[aggiesal]

110. It worked perfect until they fixed it. ...

I'm trying to get used to it.
How do I get to the home page?

[DearMusic]

111. Other than wasted real estate, it appears to be in line with the mainstream cell phone mania.

Many do not peek at a cell phone unless an emergency arises or their love is calling

[edisdead]

138. It is terrible on the phone.

[pecosbob]

112. Not a fan of the new layout. Will spend less time on this forum as a result.

[Liberal In Texas]

114. Seeing less information on a page. Too much white space.

This design probably works better on vertical screens like a cell phone, but on the horizontal desk top monitors there are huge white space areas on the sides and between posts and as also between individual sentences within the posts. This all means that you see less data/info at one time.

I don't mind the navigation so much, there are actually some improvements for the user. But all in all, I would like to have DU3 back

[efhmc]

204. This Texan so agrees.

Change just for change sake makes no sense.

[BootinUp]

115. Do people think they are making anything better with a thread like this?

Please stop.

[leftgirl]

120. The new layout is poorly designed

Eyes go all over the place to see wide variety of entries on page.....NO FOCAL POINT
the old design was way better
what was reason for new design? just to update for UPDATES sake?
Please go back to old !

[edisdead]

121. This is god awful

I am sorry but this is atrocious.

Why would you roll this out?

This looks like late 90’s html with bad css and poor functionality. I would restore ASAFP!

[DZC]

122. Agreed!

I agree 100%

[ProfessorGAC]

123. I Thought That Too

But, I put my browser in "Desktop" mode. The only thing that isn't one touch now is "My Posts".

[relayerbob]

125. I'll get used to it, but ...

I agree, it is not an improvement. Font, even larger, is harder to read, and navigation seems to take more steps.

It’s better than the beta version.

Bright mode is almost unusable, the use of brilliant white, coupled with the font selection hurts my eyes, but at least dark mode is available.

The skinner version sorta takes the worst of both worlds, so it’s a big NO for me.

Imo, all the previous version needed was a dark mode. This doesn’t feel more “modern”, just change for the sake of change. We’ll get used to it, I suppose, the content is what matters. While I appreciate the effort and intention that went into, I’d prefer having left well enough alone.

[Patroclus]

129. It Was Not Broken

The old format was so easy to navigate. That's it, that's the speach.

[Happy Hoosier]

130. Meh. I have some to prefer this version.

For me, it's faster, more responsive, and I like the night mode. YMMV, but this version rocks IMO.

[Rorey]

132. I can't do it

That blinking "My Stuff" link at the upper right is hard on my AMD eyes. So where the heck is "settings" so I can change mine.

[LiberalLovinLug]

136. I agree. This is a step backwards

DU had the best and smartest layout on the web. Easy to get around. and organized great.

Easy to find toons and vids. The main page was a nice taste of the most talked about stories. With no wasted space.

Seems like it was designed for the iphone. I read here on my desktop, like I think most. Small fonts areas crammed into some spaces, and lots of wasted white space in other areas. It doesn't work.

Sorry I want to like it, but its a bit of a headache now. Seems like this was just a make-work project. It needs WAAAAAAAY more tweeking before you roll it out

[bucolic_frolic]

137. They accomplished a couple things, but some things need tweaking

They moved old, outdated, abandoned forums into a sort of archive, so they don't clutter up the present.

I read they've improved the site for smart phone users.

But they made more clicks necessary, and lost the home page format. I liked 9 video links on the right side, popular and important articles in the middle, the daily graphic on the left with the links I use most often.

Why extra steps asks the OP? I don't know. Either a smart phone feel, or it's more efficient in not pre-loading the available link content, or something else.

Maybe they can alter some of these things based on how users use it. So far I see fewer posts.

[IronLionZion]

142. Anything new is going to take some learning to use it

I like many of the new options to make it look the way I want. It takes some tweaking in the settings for people who are into that. I can see how some would find it frustrating at first but it might grow on you after some time.

[gristy]

144. Agreed - visually and navigationally a mess

Inefficient use of space, and white space everywhere. Navigationally a mess. Where is trending? Do cat posts continue to show up on the trending page in spite of my blocking their posters? I don't know, as I can't find it. All a problem on both my PC and on my phone.

Advertisements seem to work well, though.

I had stepped back for about year after getting yelled at for saying the Biden yelled too much in his speeches. I think I'll look elsewhere again. You won't miss me...

[efhmc]

146. So agree. Why the change? Just tech people using their power to do "something"?? It stinks.

[republianmushroom]

147. I agree with you.

[Hangingon]

149. Oval on the left

What purpose does it serve except to annoy?

[Cartoonist]

150. The bug in front of me.

All copy gets cut off on the left.

[demosincebirth]

151. I, do, agree!

[bogie316]

154. New Verion of DU is Great

I do understand the complaints about the new DU. No one wants change. However, I really love the change. I am visually impaired. The old DU was difficult to read. Now I can make the fonts much bigger which makes it easier to read. Can I say thank you to the web master.

[Bucky]

156. DU4 is a crime literally worse than Watergate

This superficial change in appearance is doing more damage to the country than The Teapot Dome Scandal of 1922.

This DU4 is the John Wayne Gacy of website reformattings

Reading and conversing in this forum leaves me as tortured as Job from the Bible.

[shrike3]

157. I can't post a thread.

All I get is this blank white screen. Can't make it go away.

[MLAA]

158. I've gotten use to it and like it now.

[RKP5637]

162. I liked DU3 far better for a bunch of reasons. - UPDATE DU4 seems great now!

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2023, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)

[Susan Calvin]

164. I suppose I'll get used to it, but I don't like it

I miss the homepage, that combined trending posts with the top of the greatest posts.

[NNadir]

165. I used to feel that way everytime a familiar thing changed...

...until I realized the new thing, in time, becomes the familiar thing.

I liked the old format which is not to say I dislike the new one.

New is not always better nor is it always worse but one thing that happens to the new is that it ceases being new.

I'm sorry for the tautology but it applies as tautology always does.

[FrankChurchDem]

166. The first rule of redesigns

Or anything UI/UX for that matter: You're never going to please everybody. You aim for a design that appeals to the largest audience. And I think they've done a good of that. I have my own misgivings about the design, but they relate back to the fact that I've been accustomed to Skinner/DU3 for exactly 20 (!) years. That's just conditioning that has to be adjusted.

[NCWilm]

186. I'd agree if....

.....the site wasn't almost worthless now as a source of breaking news or info that you might not find elsewhere. Now the "Latest Discussions" and "Breaking News" tabs show stuff from 5 days ago.
The new format couldn't be worse for me.

[Martin68]

167. I'm afraid I agree. I liked the home page, and that's where I checked out topics and threads.

I'll give it some time, though, to see if I'll get more comfortable with the new format.

[Martin68]

168. Me, too.

[ClearSky24]

171. This new design is horrible.

Who in their right mind thought this would be a good idea?

This isn't change, this is horrible, amateur web design.

[efhmc]

202. Horrible and for no good reason. Except for needing something to fiddle with.

[Number9Dream]

173. If it ain't broke, don't fix it n/t

[flying-skeleton]

174. Agreed 100%

The old version was simple. Easy to find everything. It was all there on the home page. The new version is a glorified / colorful step too much. The ONLY improvement is the larger font. 😞

[TeamProg]

177. K&R

[flying rabbit]

178. I like it

it was jarring at first, but I find it easy to navigate.

[KentuckyWoman]

179. Oddly, I'm finding it very intuitive.

And I'm an old lady ... so ...

[DZC]

180. Videos?

In the old style where are the videos now that used to be on the right hand side?

[Earth-shine]

182. I'd like to see the buttons for Posts and Subscriptions on the screen at all time, not under My Stuff.

The My Stuff button is constantly blinking at me.

I need it to alert me when someone responds to a post, not for every new entry in every subscription I have.

Extra clicks = bad design

A lot of change for the sake of change.

I'm using Skinner mode to cut down on the wasted screen space.

[Emrys]

207. EarlG's now addressed this.

No standalone "Posts" button yet, but it's under consideration, but there's a way to turn off all notifications other than post responses if that's what you want. See his response here (and the ones underneath it since you're using Skinner mode like I am): https://www.democraticunderground.com/125622855#post11

[DenaliDemocrat]

190. It sucks

And reeks of programmers who “know better”.

Hate it.

[efhmc]

203. So true.

[crickets]

191. I'm getting used to it, but...

Solved my link color problems with an extension, and Skinner mode works pretty well. I do miss seeing LBN front and center & smaller vid thumbnails listed together to the right, though. I'll get used to the vids situation. I also could deal with scrolling down for LBN if the blurbs were still there. I do hope that gets adjusted eventually.

[Conjuay]

192. JEEZ LOUISE!

The repugs are right-
WHAT A BUNCH OF SNOW FLAKES!
When I was your age, we had to go OUT IN THE SNOW and climb uphill to collect pieces of slate we could use to carve our own DU tablets.
We delivered them and swapped them using dog sleds up until the spring thaw.

After the thaw, it was even worse- have you ever tried to load a birch bark canoe with slate tablets?

Man, it got ugly.

My point is, (and I am not directing this at you personally, brush,) but the fucking world is in flames, the fire brigade can’t find someone who is capable to drive the god damned truck, and people want to grouse about having to work a little bit at locating this and that discussion.
Rant over; please proceed.

[crickets]

194. Point taken, but no need for name calling.

Another point is that people who have specific problems and wish to let EarlG know could post in Help and Search:

DU4 Questions & Answers
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1320

or

DU4 Bug Reports
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1319

I'm absolutely as guilty as the next person for forgetting that EarlG might not be able to chase all of the threads outside of the help forum. Also guilty of forgetting that help posts outside the help forum may be less than welcome.

Yes, there's lots more important stuff going on in the world - but if people are having trouble finding the news at DU as easily as they did a bit ago, there are places to ask questions about making that access a little easier.

🌷

[Goodheart]

195. My two biggest gripes:

What happened to MY POSTS at the top of the screen that used to light up in yellow when somebody replied to one of your posts?

And...

The left side of my screen has four boxes of "MILESTONES" telling me my same post has reached 25, 50 replies. Who cares? And it takes up a lot of space that could be used for something else.

I'm not sure why anybody thought this would be an improvement?

[IsItJustMe]

196. I am not a web designer

but the layout of text and pages seems way to expanded. Huge buttons and huge amounts of space between everything. I still find the site effective, but now very efficient. Not complaining though. As long as those ads don't start overlaying the middle of the screen again, I am a happy camper.

[iemanja]

197. I don't much care either way

I just don't see the point of putting in all the work to change it.

[Scrivener7]

205. Lol! I really like it.