Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

LexVegas

(6,008 posts)
Fri Oct 20, 2023, 03:27 PM Oct 2023

Israel exists as a country, whether some like it or not. Anti-Zionism is the belief that it should not. Its as simple as that.

You can't redefine words. If that is your stance, just say so.

And Zionism is not related in any way to objection to a two state solution or Palestinian self determination.

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Israel exists as a country, whether some like it or not. Anti-Zionism is the belief that it should not. Its as simple as that. (Original Post) LexVegas Oct 2023 OP
Thanks for this. madaboutharry Oct 2023 #1
Some want to redefine it, but it is as simple as the OP stated. Not as some with a political agenda want to JohnSJ Oct 2023 #2
Plus, Jews are not just one race. Others can convert to Judaism. raging moderate Oct 2023 #3
There has been a lot of redefining sarisataka Oct 2023 #4
So true. Behind the Aegis Oct 2023 #6
The nature of the country is at issue, not the right to exist... AntiFascist Oct 2023 #5
Hamas doesn't treat people equally JI7 Oct 2023 #7
How do you eliminate Hamas? Mossfern Oct 2023 #8
It doesn't help that... AntiFascist Oct 2023 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Oct 2023 #9
We also have some here who claim the illegal West Bank settlements are not illegal at all (thus parroting Trump and going against Biden and pretty much every other nation on the planet), and Celerity Oct 2023 #10
The history of the world is full of redrawn borders and populations exchange question everything Oct 2023 #13
This! NotVeryImportant Oct 2023 #15
Native Americans may think the United States has no right to exist. SocialDemocrat61 Oct 2023 #12
Exactly. William769 Oct 2023 #14

JohnSJ

(92,024 posts)
2. Some want to redefine it, but it is as simple as the OP stated. Not as some with a political agenda want to
Fri Oct 20, 2023, 03:55 PM
Oct 2023

define it as “racism”.

That distortion was pushed in 1975 in the general assembly by the Soviet Union and Arab states from their 1967 and 1973 attempt to eradicate Israel.

That resolution was overturned by the UN in 1991 by a large majority in the general assembly.

The vast majority of Jews around the world identify as Zionists, which is the support of Israel as a Jewish state.

and as the OP said it is not adverse to a two-state solution.


raging moderate

(4,289 posts)
3. Plus, Jews are not just one race. Others can convert to Judaism.
Fri Oct 20, 2023, 04:00 PM
Oct 2023

When I was in high school, a Jewish boy and I were very good friends. I met his rabbi at one point. If we had fallen in love, I could easily have converted to Judaism. Then I would have been a Jew.

sarisataka

(18,425 posts)
4. There has been a lot of redefining
Fri Oct 20, 2023, 04:13 PM
Oct 2023

Going on lately. Some out of ignorance, some are blatant manipulative attempts "say without saying"

Behind the Aegis

(53,898 posts)
6. So true.
Sat Oct 21, 2023, 03:48 AM
Oct 2023

I see people trying to redefine anti-Semitism to meet their anti-Semitic needs. People are even redefining Jews, some, including here, think that a Jew in the woodpile means they are now a Jew and can speak as one. Of course, lots of gentilesplaining too.

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
5. The nature of the country is at issue, not the right to exist...
Fri Oct 20, 2023, 04:58 PM
Oct 2023

I doubt that there are very many on DU who are calling for Israel to be eliminated, and if they do then they probably don't belong here. The problem, as I see it, is: if Palestinians continue to be treated as second class citizens, or worse, then there will continue to be those who become radicalized among their younger generations, and Hamas will continue to be a true existential threat to Israel. I believe that Hamas needs to be eliminated and removed from governing Gaza, but the greater Palestinian people also need some hope for their future.

Mossfern

(2,441 posts)
8. How do you eliminate Hamas?
Sat Oct 21, 2023, 04:54 AM
Oct 2023

It's not like there's a registration or ID cards.
Children are taught from practically infancy to hate Jews, that to kill Jews will get you favor and if they die in the attempt (successful or not) to kill Jews they will become martyrs.

Some Palestinian mothers are gleeful that their child died killing Jews.

It's the middle of the night (maybe early morning) and I'm awake with back pain - so maybe I'll be a bit more cogent in my posts tomorrow. Gotta feed the cats and give the diabetic one his insulin at 6:40am.

Maybe I'll have an epiphany and a solution by then as to the feasibility of "getting rid of Hamas".

AntiFascist

(12,792 posts)
11. It doesn't help that...
Sat Oct 21, 2023, 03:50 PM
Oct 2023

Netanyahu has propped up Hamas in the past at the expense of the more moderate Palestinian Authority (which did have support from the West) just so that the goal of a two state solution could never be achieved. A more moderate Israeli government might be able to prop up the moderates in the Palestinian government and work together to suppress the radicalization, over time. As it stands now, violence is only causing more and more radicalization with no end except what many are fearing will turn into a genocide.

Response to AntiFascist (Reply #5)

Celerity

(42,987 posts)
10. We also have some here who claim the illegal West Bank settlements are not illegal at all (thus parroting Trump and going against Biden and pretty much every other nation on the planet), and
Sat Oct 21, 2023, 05:22 AM
Oct 2023
even more ludicrously, some claiming that not a single Palestinian has ever been displaced by Israel since its founding.

It is not possible to have a good faith conversation on the subject with people who hold, and refuse to give up, even an inch, such extreme and untrue views.

question everything

(47,385 posts)
13. The history of the world is full of redrawn borders and populations exchange
Sat Oct 21, 2023, 04:28 PM
Oct 2023

Putin is still fighting the recent changes after the fall of the Soviet Union.

After the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, about 600,000 Jews escaped Arab Countries, were absorbed by the young nation to become regular citizens.

During the war of Independence a similar number of residents escaped to the West Bank and to Gaza. They have been living in refugee camps with no assistance from other Arab countries, where the rulers have used them to divert any resentment from their citizens.

 

NotVeryImportant

(578 posts)
15. This!
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 07:53 PM
Oct 2023

Whenever you see someone spewing that "the other side is saying we should die" you're probably witnessing a liar.

SocialDemocrat61

(568 posts)
12. Native Americans may think the United States has no right to exist.
Sat Oct 21, 2023, 04:16 PM
Oct 2023

But whether you think any nation has a right to exist or not, the reality is that it does exist. And like it or not if a nation exists, it has every right to defend itself and its citizens.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Israel exists as a countr...