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albacore

(2,421 posts)
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 02:59 PM Oct 2023

Hawkeye (M.A.S.H.) told it like it is... and not just in the Middle-East, either.

Hawkeye: War isn’t Hell. War is war, and Hell is Hell. And of the two, war is a lot worse.
Father Mulcahy: How do you figure that, Hawkeye?
Hawkeye: Easy, Father. Tell me, who goes to Hell?
Father Mulcahy: Sinners, I believe.
Hawkeye: Exactly. There are no innocent bystanders in Hell. War is chock full of them — little kids, cripples, old ladies. In fact, except for some of the brass, almost everybody involved is an innocent bystander.

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hawkeye (M.A.S.H.) told it like it is... and not just in the Middle-East, either. (Original Post) albacore Oct 2023 OP
Hawkeye was right. Srkdqltr Oct 2023 #1
the brass - and the power hungry megalomaniacs that unleash them. -(nt)- stopdiggin Oct 2023 #2
God's will though? czarjak Oct 2023 #3
What God Wants, God Gets. spike jones Oct 2023 #13
Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius. Kennah Oct 2023 #14
Hawkeye speaks truth. He did that a lot. n/t ms liberty Oct 2023 #4
Still watch it every night! Never tire of it. As years go by, it becomes more profound cornball 24 Oct 2023 #5
Great show BOSSHOG Oct 2023 #15
One of Rebl2 Oct 2023 #21
Same Orrex Oct 2023 #16
As an Rebl2 Oct 2023 #23
I prefer the later seasons too Unwind Your Mind Oct 2023 #24
Something else I've noticed as an aging viewer Orrex Oct 2023 #25
Another thing I notice too Unwind Your Mind Oct 2023 #28
Good point Orrex Oct 2023 #35
Alda had no relationship to the character when it started underpants Oct 2023 #30
That makes perfect sense Orrex Oct 2023 #34
Alda was such a devoted husband and father ExWhoDoesntCare Oct 2023 #36
That's a cool story. underpants Oct 2023 #37
. ItsjustMe Oct 2023 #6
Alan Alda is a national treasure! Abolishinist Oct 2023 #7
Hawkeye was no Frank Burns or Charles Emerson Winchester III True Dough Oct 2023 #8
"All Quiet on the Western Front" by Erich Maria Remarque Bo Zarts Oct 2023 #9
Wonder what Hawkeye would have to say about Ukraine? hueymahl Oct 2023 #10
I still like the "M.A.S.H." movie a lot more than the TV series. Paladin Oct 2023 #11
There's no soundtrack for the first 1/2 of the movie underpants Oct 2023 #27
Interesting. Thanks. (nt) Paladin Oct 2023 #31
Consider that, when MASH was on TV, people didn't understand how really oppressive NK would become. brooklynite Oct 2023 #12
Is Hawkeye still working.... Fichefinder Oct 2023 #17
M.A.S.H. was a tour de force rollercoaster ride of comedy and tragedy. cayugafalls Oct 2023 #18
It still holds up. calimary Oct 2023 #32
The show was never about the Korean War bronxiteforever Oct 2023 #19
As someone who grew up watching it, we knew. Cuthbert Allgood Oct 2023 #29
Alan Alda talks 'M*A*S*H' bigtree Oct 2023 #20
mythical hell doesn't exist so the whole damn thing is moot Snooper9 Oct 2023 #22
K n R with.... JoeOtterbein Oct 2023 #26
Besides his apparent opposition to the Vietnam War during that era.. Jrose Oct 2023 #33

cornball 24

(1,485 posts)
5. Still watch it every night! Never tire of it. As years go by, it becomes more profound
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 03:27 PM
Oct 2023

regarding the insanity of war.

BOSSHOG

(37,377 posts)
15. Great show
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 09:38 PM
Oct 2023

I think my favorite (amongst favorites) was when he, and I think BJ, kept a young soldier alive until December 26th so they wouldn’t have to put Christmas Day on his death certificate, and spare his family that grief. So much good amidst so much bad.

Orrex

(63,434 posts)
16. Same
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 10:56 PM
Oct 2023

When I was younger I used to prefer the early seasons, because they're generally more laughs per minute. But as I've matured, I really have begun to appreciate the later episodes, especially seeing how Major Houlihan grew over the years, taking less shit from men and really finding her own voice.

I have access to two streaming platforms that run M*A*S*H 24/7 and I'll watch at least one episode almost daily.

In the entire run, I think the only episode that I really don't like is Edwina from season 1.

Rebl2

(13,790 posts)
23. As an
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 10:23 AM
Oct 2023

older person, I agree. The later episodes where Houlihan stood up to the men and they grew to respect her were my favorite episodes.

Unwind Your Mind

(2,059 posts)
24. I prefer the later seasons too
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 10:48 AM
Oct 2023

For Margaret and also because I love Charles and his development. Plus I can’t stand Frank anymore and his relationship with Margaret was so cringy.

Through it all, I always love Hawkeye. He’s the reason my ‘type’ is nice looking boys who are up to something naughty and fun

Orrex

(63,434 posts)
25. Something else I've noticed as an aging viewer
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:01 AM
Oct 2023

The later seasons really toned down Hawkeye's serial womanizing, and we see an overall toning-down of the openly sexist or homophobic humor that was more common in the first few seasons (and which has aged rather poorly).

Granted, this is a perspective from 40-50 years after the fact, and M*A*S*H was quite progressive for its day. Still, I've seen many online complaints that the show got "less funny" when "Alda got all preachy," etc., so it seems that such broad comedy still has its devotees.


Unwind Your Mind

(2,059 posts)
28. Another thing I notice too
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:14 AM
Oct 2023

There was a lot of adultery going on with the earlier set of characters.

They moved away from that with BJ and Colonel Potter.

My guess is they had to tone all of that stuff down when the show became successful.

Orrex

(63,434 posts)
35. Good point
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:46 AM
Oct 2023

I'm not hardcore enough to know episode titles by heart, but I looked it up, and Taking the Fifth (season 9, episode 9) really seemed to mark the end of Hawkeye's cavalier womanizing.

Creatively it was a clever choice, because the episode has him scheming to score a night with a nurse, but the entire nursing staff turns it around on him, more or less permanently closing that chapter on the character.

underpants

(183,593 posts)
30. Alda had no relationship to the character when it started
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:31 AM
Oct 2023

I’ve listened to two of his autobiographies. Very entertaining. One is called “Don’t stuff the dog” which his father did once.
He grew up on a vaudeville train/bus. His parents thought it was the best education he could get but they were told they couldn’t have a school age kid with them. Local authorities might snoop around on that. His dad got work in LA doing contract shows.

Alda was happily married when he got the role. He went from a movie about prison right onto the lot in the desert/ mountains where it was filmed. He said he has no idea or hadn’t had time to develop the character. It was really sudden.

Orrex

(63,434 posts)
34. That makes perfect sense
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:43 AM
Oct 2023

And of course Alda took on more of the show's creative development as it went along, so he was able to steer the character more effectively.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
36. Alda was such a devoted husband and father
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 05:09 PM
Oct 2023

That he flew home to New Jersey every weekend during the four months of filming M*A*S*H, rather than uprooting his family for a move to LA. I think he did it over all 11 seasons of the show.

Abolishinist

(1,401 posts)
7. Alan Alda is a national treasure!
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 03:49 PM
Oct 2023

We attended an event several years ago for which he was the main speaker. He had recently informed the public that he has Parkinson's, which was slightly evident, mostly one of his hands as I recall, but not overtly so. Mr. Alda partnered with the renowned scientific institute Scripps Research to bring immersive communication training to scientists and medical professionals on the West Coast.

Alda was the founder of Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science in the Stony Brook University, a cross-disciplinary organization that helps scientists in learning how to communicate more effectively. Their training at this center helps them immensely in their communications with the media, funders, policymakers, and students.

“When you allow yourself to fully relate with another person, you’re listening and engaged, riding the waves of uncertainty inherent in any conversation,” Alda says. “When you embrace that uncertainty, rather than try to control it, that’s when you hit gold. That’s when you have the opportunity to make a meaningful connection.”

He is a great story-teller, and this on a topic I had never thought of before... how to more clearly communicate to those not in the sciences the essence of what they are attempting to convey. Amazing how changing a few words here and there can make a day/night difference. And I wish him the best with his continuing medical struggles.

https://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200116-alda-communication.html#:~:text=Coast%20%7C%20Scripps%20Research-,Iconic%20actor%20Alan%20Alda%2C%20Scripps%20Research%20join%20forces%20to%20bring,with%20clear%20and%20vivid%20communication.

Bo Zarts

(25,436 posts)
9. "All Quiet on the Western Front" by Erich Maria Remarque
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 05:00 PM
Oct 2023

"The wisest were just the poor and simple people. They knew the war to be a misfortune, whereas those who were better off, and should have been able to see more clearly what the consequences would be, were beside themselves with joy." - Paul Bäumer

Paladin

(28,398 posts)
11. I still like the "M.A.S.H." movie a lot more than the TV series.
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 06:29 PM
Oct 2023

Alan Alda got a bit too sanctimonious for my taste, as the TV show progressed.

My favorite memory of the movie: Watching it in a theater for the first time, when the padre uttered the "He was drafted" line. That got a 5-minute standing ovation, there in big-time anti-Vietnam War Austin, Texas.

underpants

(183,593 posts)
27. There's no soundtrack for the first 1/2 of the movie
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:11 AM
Oct 2023

Robert Altman wanted to make it dark and have no lightness to it I guess.

Before the movie, Gary Burghoff played drums in a band fronted by Lynda Carter. She obviously was the attraction.

https://www.metv.com/stories/hold-up-gary-burghoff-and-lynda-carter-were-in-a-band-in-the-1960s

brooklynite

(95,589 posts)
12. Consider that, when MASH was on TV, people didn't understand how really oppressive NK would become.
Sun Oct 22, 2023, 07:00 PM
Oct 2023

If the UN hadn't sent in military forces to push back against the North Korea invasion, 50,000,000 more people would likely be worshiping Kim Jong Il and family.

cayugafalls

(5,715 posts)
18. M.A.S.H. was a tour de force rollercoaster ride of comedy and tragedy.
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 09:41 AM
Oct 2023

A worthy add to any media library or playlist.

bronxiteforever

(9,287 posts)
19. The show was never about the Korean War
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 09:52 AM
Oct 2023

Based on the 1970 movie, itself based on a novel, MASH was designed as a “black comedy” set during the Korean War.

It was really a thinly veiled critique of the war in Vietnam raging at the time.

The creators of the show knew they wouldn’t get away with making a Vietnam war comedy. Uncensored news broadcasts showing the viciousness of Vietnam were transmitted straight to the American public who were, by now, growing jaded of the increasingly brutal war.

Setting the series 20 years earlier allowed the creators to mask their criticisms behind a historical perspective – but most viewers realised the true context.

https://theconversation.com/m-a-s-h-50-years-on-the-anti-war-sitcom-was-a-product-of-its-time-yet-its-themes-are-timeless-190422#:~:text=Based%20on%20the%201970%20movie,making%20a%20Vietnam%20war%20comedy.

I guess not all viewers realized the true context.

Cuthbert Allgood

(5,034 posts)
29. As someone who grew up watching it, we knew.
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:15 AM
Oct 2023

I mean, sure, some people are dumb, but that it was an anti-war movie and then television show wasn't exactly subtle.

Jrose

(909 posts)
33. Besides his apparent opposition to the Vietnam War during that era..
Mon Oct 23, 2023, 11:35 AM
Oct 2023

Alda has always been a strong and very vocal supporter of women's rights (abortion rights, equal employment opportunities, etc.).

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