Rumors

[H2O Man]

"In prison, a rumor twice repeated becomes accepted fact."
-- Rubin "Hurricane" Carter; 1973 letter to H2O Man


I was going through some older files today, and happened upon some things from the early years of my friendship with Rubin. At the time, he was in Rahway state prison in New Jersey. Rubin had been transfered from the harsher prison in Trenton earlier, and we were able to communicate quite freely at first.

There were, of course, very different currents in the larger society. There was the Nixon administration's efforts to get "tough on crime" -- at least some types of criminal activities. Nixon announced his "war on drugs" in the summer of 1971, and it led to a rapid increase in the numbers of people being incarcerated. In 1994, a former top Nixon administration official spoke about this:

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and Black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or Black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and Blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.” -- John Ehrlichman
https://eji.org/news/nixon-war-on-drugs-designed-to-criminalize-black-people/

In those years, and to a surprising extent even after J. Edgar Hoover died in May of '72, a number in the FBI were concerned about the influence of black prisoners' influence on the white youth (think Eldridge Cleaver and George Jackson), and the possibility of black revolutionaries organizing in the low-income neighborhoods in American cities.

On the other side, there were significant numbers of people across the country concerned about the war in Vietnam, civil rights, women's rights,poverty, the environment, and Native American rights. From these groups, there were many who began to see the connections between these. And interested in penal reforms.

Rubin explained that inside the prison, the increase in the young inmate population brought about over-crowding. There was an influx of veterans who had witnessed the worst in humanity in Vietnam, who opted for drugs other than the sedatives prescribed by the prison doctors. And there was racism sparking at tiny fuses leading to potential large powder kegs.

Those of my generation remember the September 9 - 13, 1971 riot at the prison in Attica. In the weeks before Attica, there was a stand-off between the Onondaga Nation and the NYS DOT. The NYS Police had gathered, fully armed in riot gear. Chief Billy Lazore, who was familiar with the inside of Attica, was leading the Onondaga protest. My cousin was sitting with John & Yoko when Governor Rockeferr's order the police hurry to Attica came through.
https://www.nytimes.com/1971/08/22/archives/indians-protest-upstate-highway-enlarging-of-route-81-held-to-be.html

There is a great book about this, "Blood in the Water," by Heather Ann Thompson. Despite the book's providing important information on how to avoid prison riots, NYS has banned it from jails and prisons. We know that those who ban books always have the public's beast interests at heart, so I won't quote from friend Heather's book, but instead suggest you read it. And I'll quote from Howard Zinn's most famous book on the conditions in the Attica prison leading up to the riot:

"Prisoners spent 14 to 16 hours a day in their cells, their mail was read, their reading material restricted, their visits from families conducted through a mesh screen, their medical care disgraceful, their parole system inequitable, racism everywhere."

Official statistics showed that 54% of the inmates were black, 37% white, and 9% Hispanic. I asked Chief Lazore about this, and he said the Iroquois inmates at Attica had long understood that they were recognized as zero percent of society.

Two months later in Rahway, inmates were allowed to gather to watch a movie. Rubin told me that he avoided movies, though just the names "Superfly" and "Shadt" clued him in on what role the weaker men would attempt to don for the following weeks. Being in the Thanksgiving season, a number of inmates had consumed quanties of home-made wine before gathering in the theater.

One inmate, Clay Thomas -- who had been a good light heavyweight boxer before being incarerated -- began to encourage inmates to riot. (Note: Clay was in a blackout, and had no memory of this the following day.) A couple inmates sought out Rubin, and asked him to come to the theater and try to calm Clay down. Rubin went and tried, but it was too late. So he got guards and other inmates opposed to rioting, and locked themselves in a safe wing.

The riot was put down, and the administration clamped down on prisoners' rights, which did not ease the tensions. However, because Rubin's protecting guards' lives, we were able to communicate more openly than other inmates were allowed to. But by 1974, he would tell me that tensions were rising, primarily among younger inmates based on racial identies. I remember him saying these young inmates did not understand how hard the older inmates had worked to end the poison of racism.

A well known fact is that teenaged boys know the exact answer to everything, especially things they know nothing about. Being an expert in all, I reminded Rubin that he had attempted to stop Clay's riot, and was credited in saving lives. So get started stopping it now, before it happens. A few days later, Rubin wrote to my brother, and told him that my letter had inspired him.

Rubin went from a hermit, to talking to the most dangerous leaders of the most violent gangs, telling them that there was a better way. He was running to be the president of the prison's inmate council. At the time, the council was as weak as any junior high school student council. When Rubin won the election, the administration opted to recognize the loser as president. But within two weeks, they admitted Rubin had won.

After renaming it the Rahway People's Council, Rubin got to work. I have copies of the letters and other documents from that time, when university professors and elected NJ officials ventured to Rahway to discuss prison reform with Rubin. Perhaps my favorite visitor was Muhammad Ali, who announced he would face Rubin in an exhibition match to highlight his case.

Perhaps like the book "Blood in the Water," prison officials determined this was not a good thing. One day, Rubin had inmates turn in weapons to the administration, surely a move too far. They said it was evidence of him planning violence. Late in the night, 25 guards in riot gear came to remove Rubin from his cell, and place him in the Vroom Psychiatric Wing at Trenton.

There is a scene based loosely upon this in the movie "The Hurricane." Older forum members may be reminded of Princeton professor Gresham Sykes' 1958 study of the Trenton prison, "The Society of Captives." In it, he wrote "Centers of opposition in the inmate population -- in the form of men recognized as leaders among the inmate population -- can be neutralized through the use of solitary confinement or exhile to other state institutions. Just as the Deep South served as a dumping ground for particularly troublesome slaves before the Civil War, so too can the mentsl hospital serve as a dumping ground for the maximum security prison."

Rubin served 92 days in Vroom before a federal judge ruled that he was wrongly placed there for attempting to improve conditions by peaceful means at Rahway. However, he was placed in the more restrictive Trenton prison. Several years later, Carter was given an award of $30 per day he was wrongly held in Vroom. That money went to hire one of the state's investigators, who had recognized the case against Rubin and John Artis wasseverely flawed, and that the pair were not the gunmen they were convicted of being.

A couple years after Rubin died, one of the two gunmen made a deathbed confession, identifying himself and a friend as the murderers. I have records that show these two had both failed polygraphs the day of the early morning murders, and one was held in jail for several weeks. Also, that both Rubin and John had passed polygraphs that same day. Yet there are some who still insist that my friend Rubin was a cold-blooded murderer. I say this as a reminder that, as Malcolm X said, a lot of people's minds are in prisons.

[cachukis]

1. Thanks.

[H2O Man]

2. Thank you.

[FHRRK]

3. A Dylan song seems to be needed

https://m.

[H2O Man]

9. Nice!

Please excuse my compulsive need to say a Joques Levy song, put to music by Dylan. Koques was the resident poet at Colgate University, and deserves the credit for writing it. He was a good man. Bob had attempted to write a song about Rubin, but found it too hard, because he was too emotionally outraged by the case.

[FHRRK]

16. Thanks for the background

One of my top three favorite Dylan songs. They lyrics are pure genius.

[H2O Man]

21. I'll see if I

can post Bob singing the original lyrics. There was at least one change made, on a lawyer's suggestion.

I have a friend who was neighbors with Scarlet Rivera back when she added the violen -- I think that she added a lot to the song.

It is, of course, my favorite Dylan song. And on a really strong album, at that.

[FHRRK]

24. The Violen is a HUGE part of the song

Basically tells a story.

[H2O Man]

25. It added emotion

to the powerful lyrics. Great music all around, but that added so much.

[H2O Man]

27. I think this is the first version .....

[dgauss]

32. Thank you for posting that.

This is the only version of this song I've heard before what FHRRX posted above, which I assume was the studio version. Definitely one of my favorite Dylan songs.

What I loved about the version you posted has so many elements to it. First of all, just the performance, Dylan flawlessly reciting the lyrics. A poet that doesn't miss a line. This was a long song, not just repeating rhyming verses but telling a story.

You could go a little further and talk about the masterful tempo and phrasing changes, but that's just focusing on the amazing craftsmanship.

What I loved about this video above all else in real time, is the relationship to the audience.

This audience seemed like people who could have been listening a William F. Buckley lecture and nodding along. Maybe not. But they weren't all young, they weren't just Dylan fans, they weren't just there to cheer. Those people just seemed to be listening. Like they actually wanted to hear what this young artist had to say. And they seemed to appreciated it.

What a wonderful thing.

[H2O Man]

34. Glad to!

I have one other recording of this version being played live. Being old and without any technical abilities, I will have to ask one of my children to see if I can post it somehow.

[dgauss]

36. Another recording? Would love to hear it.

No pressure on your kids but a lot of kids like a challenge so.. come on kids it's probably easy for you.

[AllaN01Bear]

4. thanks , i had always had that feeling that the war on drugs was a war on blacks and others .

[H2O Man]

10. Yep.

If you were white and not a social-political activist, you could smoke pot. But if you were black, even if you didn't smoke pot, a cop pulling you over for "driving while black" just might "find" a bag. I could tell some stories about friends' experiences back then. And a few close calls I had back then, too.

[Bundbuster]

5. Great read. I remember all of those events so well

Of all the crimes and injustices of the Nixon era, the atrocity of Attica is what finally broke my proverbial back and sent me to the outskirts of murcan society for a good 10 years. I thank you for all the writings on Rubin's fallacious persecution, which have educated me further on the racist sewer that is our legal/penal system and "drug war." The Hurricane was another chapter in that education of course.

Your mere mention of John Ehrlichman, and the memory of Nixon's assembled coterie of other human scum, brings up a debate I've been having in my mind for 7 years: Are the defendant and his vile henchmen like Miller & Bannon actually more despicable than Nixon
and co-conspirators such as Ehrlichman, Alderman, Libby? Perhaps this question cannot be answered until next November. But it's quite the damning indictment on our nation that TWO such destructive criminal cabals could rule the land in a mere 50 years.

I thank you again for your always valuable contributions which keep me learning.

[H2O Man]

11. Thank you.

I think that it is similar to Yeats' "The Second Coming" ..... with every spin, things get worse in the sense that a Dick Cheney, or the Bannons & Millers, pose a greater threat to democracy. Bannon and Miller are really no different than the racist gange members in prisons, attempting to get people to be violent and even riot on January 6. It's just they aren't incarcerated. So we see the leakage of those things I attempted to cover in the OP, that are damaging society.

When there is significant levels of racial hate and fear -- both found in prison -- the samething is going to happen in the larger society. Yet there are ways for us to deal with it, that are often different than many think is possible. There may be a stiff price for doing what is right, but not nearly as bad as the price paid for doing what is wrong, or opting to do nothing at all.

[Iggo]

6. Good read. Thanks, man.

[H2O Man]

12. Thanks!

Much appreciated!

[Attilatheblond]

7. Thank you for posting this

not sure why I was unable to recommend it. Bug or feature?

[H2O Man]

14. And thank you!

Your kind words mean more to me than a recommend!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

8. k&r

[H2O Man]

15. Thanks, Tom!

[rainy]

13. Wow what a sad story. I was too young

I was too young to be aware of this at the time but as a huge Bob Dylan fan I learned a little. Thanks for this information!

[H2O Man]

18. Well, thank you!

It's the job of really old people like myself to try to share some of the lessons of the past with younger generations. I try to do that, and am mighty pleased when the target audience hears me.

[calimary]

38. Well said! Age brings wisdom. And it's well worth sharing.

[calimary]

39. Shared wisdom. Pass it on!

You really could write a book about everything you’ve seen, heard, and learned.

[H2O Man]

42. Thank you!

I'll share a funny story that kind of fits here. About twenty years ago -- back when I was only kind of old! -- I had a phone call from a young lady who was a reporter for a television news station more than an hour away. She said she had heard of me, and wanted to interview me for a series she was planning on environmental issues. I gave her directions to my house, but wasn't sure if she would follow through.

She did. I spent an afternoon talking with her, and at times with the young guy filming us. Recognizing that I really wasn't very bright, and had nothing in the way of insight to offer, I spent most of the time quoting two of the very old Onondaga chiefs. These were two friends that I'd learned from for decades, who were then at the station of life that translated to English was "Wisdom Keepers." And I made clear that these were their teachings.

After a few pleasant hours, the two began preparing to leave. The guy said to the young lady they could do the entire series from this interview. Then she said to him, "I know. He is the wisest person I've ever met." I was horrified. The minute they left, I got on the phone, and called a Clan Mother. I said that I had made clear that these were Oren and Paul's teachings, not mine. She listened patiently, the asked, "And who taught Oren and Paul? And who taught those who taught Oren and Paul?"

Being Irish by both nature and circumstances far beyond my control, I said I wasn't sure, and asked if she could tell me? That way, I said, the next time I'm interviewed, I could credit them. She laughed and said I was missing her point -- it was the accumulated wisdom that is important. That because Oren and Paul had given it to me, it showed they trusted me to be one of the next generation's links in the chain, and to be responsible to passing it down.

[calimary]

54. Fair enough. You're another link in the chain!

[former9thward]

17. Thank you for the information.

I hope someday those letters and files find their way to a library or university where they can be seen and preserved.

[H2O Man]

20. Thank you.

I have a friend who read the OP, though he's not on DU otherwise. He has been telling me to "write the book" since reading this today. I know I could shed light on parts of Rubin's 20 year case that haven't been covered in any of the books by or about Rubin, or magazine articles, etc.

All four of my children grew up knowing Rubin as their uncle (and Chief Paul Waterman as their third grandfather), and they love his letters ..... especially the very long ones he wrote from solitary confinement when he thought he would die in prison. I was one of two people e communicated with in those years. The old cassette tapes -- including when he told the stories about his life before transcribing them into his first book -- have all fallen apart over the last half-century.

But when it come to other letters, court filings and trial transcripts, I have enough here for a good university. I thank you for that suggestion!

[lastlib]

33. You gotta write the book!

I have a copy of Rubin's The Sixteenth Round, which I found to be an incredibly powerful work! An unspeakable injustice was perpetrated against him. I've tried to follow his case over the years, but it has kind of slipped down my list over the years. I'm still interested in it, tho, and would appreciate having your experience with it preserved alongside his.

You gotta write the book!

[H2O Man]

35. I am hoping to

after I finish writing my life story, at my children's request, for them to read after I am dead. (I assure them when they worry about me that I plan to live to 125, and they are on their own after that.)

I did coordinate with Rubin when he wrote his second book. He had me write the review of it, and was going to go on the book tour with him, until he was injured in an automobile wreck that prevented the book tour from happening. I also worked with him when he donated a chapter on the power of forgiveness. A university professor was completing her book, when she saw Rubin introduce my daughters & I diring his talk. She asked a friend to see if I could get Rubin to add a chapter, based upon his experience in life.

[Goddessartist]

41. Yes, you must write the book!

Thank you so much for your story. So very enlightening!

Prisons are a scam to make money, and hold people of color down.

[H2O Man]

43. Thank you!

It's one of the issues that was important in the Democratic Party when I was young. Today, I am not sure that many voters who are in the middle- and upper economic classes understand. But low-income human beings & communities surely do. There is a socially invisible industry that capitalizes on starting young men and women -- primarily non-white -- and starting them on a career of incarceration ...... from "youth facilities" to prisons. And that is expensive, not only in dollars, but in the loss of human potential.

Of course, I'm old and have no idea what I'm talking about. (grin) But I suspect that if the Democratic Party was to really consider why low-income human beings do not tend to vote, it could be because even our party does not address the issues that they are confronted with every day of their lives. That, of course, is just my opinion.

[Goddessartist]

50. I completely agree.

We're Grandparents, so we're old too.

[rainy]

19. Oops double post and can't delete

[H2O Man]

22. That's fine!

Brought the OP/thread back up!

[spanone]

23. Thanks H2O Man

[H2O Man]

26. Thank you!

I was thinking the OP was a tad long .....but a lot of people recognize that my contributions always are.

There is some interesting history in it, though. Things that I hope people can connect with some current events.

[LoisB]

28. Excellent! Thank you.

[H2O Man]

29. Thank you!

Rubin didn't open many letters he got. So I am glad he opened and read one by a 13-year old amateur boxer who was recently featured in a populat boxing magazine. And read my plan to get him out of prison, so he could manage my career! Ha!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

30. Thank you for this fascinating read, my dear H20 Man!

I hesitate to admit that this history is complex and at least somewhat beyond my capacity to grasp, but I think in the main, I do get it.

I am very happy that you're here among us! We appreciate your efforts to educate us.

Keep 'em coming!

[H2O Man]

31. Thanks, Peggy!

When I worked at the mental health clinic, and was assigned to do the work at the county jail, I knew one of the deputies that had been the second patrol man to arrive on the scene of the triple murder that Rubin was convicted of committing. He told me things about how two detectives pressured witnesses to lie about where they were and what they really saw. And that is one of the important things -- it doesn't take a large conspiracy among police and prosecutors to create an injustice -- two willing to lie to co-workers is enough.

[Docreed2003]

37. Thank you for this incredible post H20

I am always thrilled to read your posts about Rubin Carter and your communications with while while he was incarcerated.

Now, I'm sitting here meditating on your message over my cup of coffee and think about how in even subtle ways our minds can become trapped in prisons without even our awareness.

Thank you again, as always, for your post!

[H2O Man]

44. Thank you!

One of my favorite memories was when I answered the telephone around 3 am. This was well after Rubin was out of prison. It was also when two of my children were in college, and thus 3 am calls were usually one of them!

I answere the phone, and heard a voice say, "Pat! You'll never guess who this is!"

I said, "Hi, Rubin! What's up?"

Rubin: "I'm on the other side of the earth, meeting with Nelson Mandela. We're working to prevent Bush and Cheney from setting the Middle East on fire!"

We discussed his impression of Bush, from when W was governor of Texas. Rubin met with him in an attempt to save the life of a man scheduled to be executed. Rubin told me that W was "giddy" when discussing executing people.

[malthaussen]

40. Somehow, I knew this wasn't about Fleetwood Mac.

Rubin's case does make me wonder what percentage of the prison population is wrongfully incarcerated just because it was easier that way. I suspect it is much higher than most of us think.

That scene in "Shawshank Redemption" where all the inmates except one claim to be fucked by a lawyer may not be so far off base.

It is ironic that someone who tried to ease tensions and bring people together was persecuted by authority, whom presumably much preferred just breaking heads.

-- Mal

[H2O Man]

46. True.

Likely closer to the Plastic Ono Band ......

When I did the "jail group" for the clinic, and met individually with certain inmates deemed "at risk" of taking their lives, the majority of the younger inmates claimed some injustice or another. The older inmates rarely made such claims, although they said rude things about police, prosecutors, and the deputies running the jail.

This reminded me of things that Rubin and a couple other inmates that participated in making some of the cassettes he'd send said about prison ...... and Tommy "the Rabbi" Trantino saying that "the hue and cry from every wing in every state prison is "I've been screwed by the system'." But that this included those who did not distinguish between "not guilty" and "innocent." He said that during his many years of incarceration, he had encountered many inmates who he thought might have actually been innocent, but that he still had questions. And that Rubin was the only one that he knew for certain was innocent.

Tommy was sent to Vroom along with Rubin. The others I was familiar with would then start a group at Rahway known as "Scared Straight," but that's another story.

After being released -- and awarded two law degrees from universities, for Rubin had studied criminal law for twenty years, and was an expert -- he would work with a Canadian University on numerous cases of those who were wrongly convicted. This grew from cases in Canada and the USA, to other parts of the globe. I was able to coordinate with Rubin's lawyer to free a kid who was given a life sentence that my sons were friends with.

DNA tests have proved the innocence of numerous inmates in recent times. This includes a significant number of people on Death Row.

[BaronChocula]

45. That must have been some letter you wrote to Carter

I knew a former inmate in a NJ state prison (not Rahway and I can't remember the name) where Carter Briefly served time and my friend described Carter as a hermit, only in less flattering words. He said Carter felt he was above the other inmates since he was innocent and spent his time alone, refusing to socialize at all.

Thanks for the interesting post.

[H2O Man]

48. Right.

I had a phone call two weeks ago, from the nephew of one of the greatest middleweights of all time, who had fought Rubin. My friend said his uncle told him Rubin was a scary man, who had unbelievable punching power. My friend knew a guard at one of the prison Rubin was in, who told him that Rubin did not behave like a guilty man, something rare in prison.

From the time he entered prison to serve "triple life" -- two consecutive and one concurrent terms -- Rubin refused to wear prison clothes, eat prison food, or participate in the normal prison routine. This included going to court over the prison policy that all inmates had to shave ..... he won, because his beard was deemed part of his case's evidence. Long before the Canadians became involved, we would send things in to him to eat ...... there was a long period where it was limited to one can of soup every two days. Rubin lost a lot of weight then.

In Trenton -- much moreso than Rahway -- his refusal to accept being an inmate resulted in significant periods "in the hole." This may sound odd, but I think extended periods of solitary, existing in total darkness on slices of bread and cups of water, takes a greater toll on an innocent person that a guilty one. But that's just my opinion.

In prison, someone who is "famous" will often become a target for unhinged inmates. More, for one famous for his fighting ability, there are those looking to enhance their reputations. And there were numerous such instances that Rubin had to deal with, especially in the first ten years of his incarceration. For example, the time three inmates attacked him in a shower ..... a bad move on their part, though it resulted in the three spending less time in the prison hospital than Rubin would do in the "hole" as a result.

In the second decade of incarceration, before the Canadian's involvement, Rubin only communicated with two people (other than at times with his lawyer). He was convinced he would die an innocent man in prison. His attorney, and the two of us he communicated with, called this his Buddha phase. The long -- and I do mean long -- letters he sent me in this period are amog the most amazing things I've ever read. I remember showing one to a philosophy professor and his saying it was "high level," and asking if he could use it in his classes.

I know that I'm rambling on and on here. When Rubin was guest host on ESPN's Friday Night Fights, they had guests questions. By sheer coincidence (ha!), Rubin answered mine. It was about one of our favorite topics ..... his friendship with Charles "Sonny" Liston. This started when a loud-mouthed kid named Cassius Clay called Sonny "the Big Ugly Bear," and Rubin, who fought seven guys from Clay's camp, 'the Little Ugly Bear." Sonny really liked Cassius, and thought he was hilarious. Not a threat in the ring, but a funny kid. Rubin couldn't stand Cassius, and traded insults with him the few times thy encountered each other.

After beating Liston, Clay changed his name to Cassius X, and traveled with Malcolm. Because of tensions between Malcolmand NOI leadership -- including Elijah -- the young heavyweight champion would become Muhammad Ali, and separate from Malcolm. Rubin spoke about how Liston and he understood they were the "scary black men" of boxing, and used this to fill seats at their fights. But both paid a price when it came to relationships with law enforcement.

I'll end with this: quite a few of my late night conversations with Rubin in the last years of his life were on a shared hobby -- flower gardening. Rubin never bothered to learn the names of the various flowers he loved growing, and teased me because I knew the name of every type of rose I grew. Those were great times.

[BaronChocula]

51. Totally fascinating

I remember sitting on my father's lap while he watched the news with a report on Carter. I just have a memory glimpse of Carter leaving a building in civies after a court hearing perhaps. I don't remember if I asked who it was, but I do remember my father telling me it was Rubin Hurricane Carter.

I'm sure people know about the Liston/Ali relationship, but I've never heard about Carter and Ali.

[soldierant]

47. Thank you

for this truth ... we need all the truth we can get.

I particularly appreciate your specificity about places and times.

We all tend to say "the prison system" as if the United States (sometimes even the world) had one prison system. In reality, the United States alone has more prison systems than I have the time to research, but we can start with 57 - the Federal one, and one in each state and territory. And the differences among them can be vast.

I for one am not in favor of abolishing prisons. People exist who need to be apart from full and free participation in society, both for the sake of society, and for their own welfare. But the way they are treated, and maybe even more the way it is determined who is in that category, need to be thoroughly overeturned and reformed from the ground up. Starting with skin color - which should never be a reason or even considered (unless as a reason for a person having experienced life events which may have contrbuted to their condition and whether the condition might be reversible or controllable - distinctions which we are really bad at as a society.)

My husband has been incarcerated in Colorado for about 12 years, not all in the same facility. Of course I have been visiting all that time, and yes, of course the visitation staff is made up of staff who see human dignity in every human, and yes, tthey admit that not all the staff does, and that's something a perfect prison would not have. So I can't say Colorado's system is perfect. But, compared to it, reading about other states' prison systems, and even the federal prison system, is like reading about another country's system - a third world country at that. So I know better prisons are a possibility. What I don't know is how to get voters to accept the changes that have to be made in order to have them.. Because - every step of the way - it's voters who determine what a prison system will be like. Staff may be civil servants, but it's elected officials who appoint the officials who will be in charge. And we all know what rolls downhill.

[H2O Man]

49. One of the things

I did while employed at the mental health clinic was report to the county judge -- a good man -- about my opinions of the various people he was preparing to sentence. Some would get probation, some county jail, and some state prison. I took that responsibility very seriously. There were cases where I thought state prison was the best option. And one that sticks out was a kid that, due to unfortunate circumstances, ended up in state prison, despite his not belonging there. His had a record of minor convictions, and had spent time in jail for drugs.

When he got out of jail, his parents gave him an 8 ball of cocaine for Christmas. Thanks, Mom. Thanks, Dad. He was busted with it. I remember the last time I met with him in the jail. He said he wished he had met me before he got in trouble.

[Easterncedar]

52. That's heartbreaking

Off topic. My niece in McDonough is flooded out, although their old farmhouse sits high on a hill. You’re near the Chenango, maybe? I hope you and yours are ok.

[H2O Man]

53. Thanks!

The water level is high all around the area ...... to the east of the Chenango. I'm high on a hill, though the springs are open up behind me. My driveway is a creek, but it takes water away from the house. The creek near me sounds like a train is going through.