How DOJ Treated Trump And Biden

[gab13by13]

Trump :
May of 2021 the National Archives informs DOJ of missing classified documents, DOJ tells the Archives to investigate.

8 months later, January 22, 2022 the Archives informs DOJ it cannot handle the investigation, Trump is not complying.

March 2022 the FBI opens an investigation into the stolen classified documents.

Last week we find out that the FBI did a piss poor job searching Mar-el-Loco, failing to investigate a locked closet.

Biden:
Nov. 2, 2022 Biden lawyers inform the National Archives they found classified documents at a Biden office. They turn them over.
Nov. 4, 2022 the National Archives notifies DOJ
Nov. 9, 2022, the FBI opens an investigation, subsequently, 25 to 30 classified documents are found at Biden properties which are turned over.
Jan. 12, 2023 Merrick Garland appoints Trump nominee, Robert Hur, as special counsel to investigate President Biden.
Hur's report was due out last year, rumor has it that it is coming soon, Hur will get his Comey moment in the spotlight.


Meanwhile, Trump has his handpicked judge making sure that no more bad information comes to light until after the election, if then.

Merrick Garland treated Donald Trump with kid gloves while he wasted no time to investigate President Biden. I will bet my house that Donald Trump never returned all of the classified documents that he stole to this day, but within a matter of days the MSM is going to go ape shit over Robert Hur's report. Another Comey moment?

Time Matters. DOJ was slow to take over the investigation from the Archives for Trump, DOJ waited 5 days before it investigated Biden.

[Beausoleil]

1. There is also the issue of the nature of the classified documents

Nuclear secrets and war contingency plans versus meeting minutes.

There is a big difference between top secret and confidential or secret.

[GreenWave]

2. Comey is a GOP voter so he ratted false info on Hillary at almost the last second.

He tipped the election.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

3. Double standard for sure.

[senseandsensibility]

22. Yup

[MineralMan]

4. Let's see...

The DOJ is prosecuting Trump.

The DOJ is not prosecuting Biden.

The difference is obvious, I think.

[gab13by13]

6. Jack Smith indicted Trump

Robert Hur, yet to be determined.

I am talking about how Merrick Garland treated the 2 cases.

At least by May of 2021 DOJ knew about Trump's theft of classified documents, most likely it knew a lot sooner. DOJ should have gotten involved in Trump's theft of documents by at least May, the National Archives didn't have the resources or manpower to take on that investigation, we are talking thousands of documents with no cooperation from Trump. It took almost a year before the FBI got involved investigating Trump. It took the FBI 5 days to start investigating Biden.

Why the difference? I would be happy if both were treated the same by Garland, but they were not.

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. Cherry picking info to justify bashing Garland again, huh?

The big differences even your cherry picked excerpts didn’t miss:

May of 2021 the National Archives informs DOJ of missing classified documents, DOJ tells the Archives to investigate.

NARA is the agency with primary responsibility for collecting and maintain presidential records. They notified DOJ that records were missing; at the time, they could not confirm where the docs were or who had them, so a NARA-led investigation was indeed warranted.

8 months later, January 22, 2022 the Archives informs DOJ it cannot handle the investigation, Trump is not complying.

So, at this point, Trump’s lack of compliance is evidence of a potential crime, something that didn’t exist in May 2021. In fact, NARA’s initial investigation, combined with DOJ’s follow up, established Trump’s criminal intent, which was required to 1) get a judge to authorize a search warrant for Mar a Lago, and 2) obtain indictments from a grand jury for unlawful retention of National Defense Information.

So, despite the FBI’s poor execution of the search warrant, missing two rooms, the process unfolded exactly as it should have.

Contrast the above with Biden’s case:

Nov. 2, 2022 Biden lawyers inform the National Archives they found classified documents at a Biden office. They turn them over.

So, NARA is informed Biden had possession of classified documents, a potential crime, and has turned them over. Unlike the Trump case, NARA knows from the beginning where the documents are and who had possession of them.

These facts prove the next steps make perfect sense:

Nov. 4, 2022 the National Archives notifies DOJ
Nov. 9, 2022, the FBI opens an investigation, subsequently, 25 to 30 classified documents are found at Biden properties which are turned over.

Yup, everything seems to be unfolding as it should, and since Biden is a sitting president, the next step makes perfect sense as well:

Jan. 12, 2023 Merrick Garland appoints Trump nominee, Robert Hur, as special counsel to investigate President Biden.

Yup, that’s what special counsels are for.

So to summarize, Trump wasn’t treated with “kid gloves”; NARA and DOJ worked together to establish Trump’s criminal intent to unlawfully retain National Defense Info, justifying the MAL search warrant, which provided the evidence needed to obtain indictments from the grand jury. This allowed Smith to start on third base, thanks to the work of Garland’s team (who make up 90% of Smith’s team).

[gab13by13]

8. Your lengthy explanation does some cherry picking,

Are we to believe that the National Archives was not aware of missing documents until May 2021? If that is so then we need to have an investigation of NARA. NARA should have already been investigating way before May. OK let's assume NARA is totally incompetent and didn't realize what was missing until May. So in May we are supposed to believe that NARA and no one else knew who took the documents, more total incompetence.

DOJ should have taken over the investigation in May, 2021, and not left it to NARA. 8 months later NARA told DOJ it couldn't handle the investigation, DOJ should have understood that and not have to be told by NARA to please help. So NARA tells DOJ we need help and it still takes DOJ 2 months to open an investigation, it took DOJ 5 days for Biden.

DOJ should have been involved from the very beginning, should have been working along side of NARA to investigate the theft of thousands of top secret documents. Why the fuck would DOJ not get involved in looking for our nation's top secret documents even "if they didn't know who took them?" Many of those documents still haven't been returned because DOJ waited too long.

I see a pattern here, you?

[Fiendish Thingy]

10. Yes, I see a very clear pattern

It’s your lack of understanding and the resulting impatience with how the Justice system works.

Are we to believe that the National Archives was not aware of missing documents until May 2021?

Yes, we are.

Four months after the end of the Trump administration, NARA became aware of dozens, possibly over a hundred, missing Trump administration documents that should have been in the possession of the archives, out of millions of documents created during his four year term.

Remember, NARA apparently wasn’t aware of the documents Biden had until he told them.

That’s not incompetence, it’s the reality of tracking the physical copies of millions of documents, especially given finite resources for carrying out the task. The responsibility is shared between NARA and the agencies/persons who created and handled the documents during each administration.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, but it won’t be cheap, and could be onerous for the staffers involved.

DOJ should have taken over the investigation in May, 2021, and not left it to NARA.

I already explained why this process was appropriate; your opinion here is seems driven by your emotions and impatience, and not by an actual understanding of how things work.

We have just learned that the FBI did an incomplete search of Mar A Lago; there may be other errors that are yet to be revealed, but to presume “DOJ waited too long” to get involved is your opinion, which is not based on the facts as we know them, but again, is driven by your feelings.

DOJ’s involvement, and collaboration with NARA, coalesced to clearly establish Trump’s criminal intent to retain National Defense Information . This took time, and was essential to getting the search warrant and obtaining indictments. You continue to ignore these facts, instead focusing on “it didn’t happen fast enough to satisfy my feelings!”

[Fiendish Thingy]

7. Translation of technical term used in the OP:

For readers who may not be familiar with these regular Garland bashing posts, let me provide a translation for one of the more common phrases used in these posts:

Kid Gloves- in common vernacular, “kid gloves” usually refers to gentle treatment of someone or something; in Garland bashing posts, however, “kid gloves” has a more subtle, nuanced meaning:

“The Bad Orange Man isn’t in jail yet; this is upsetting, disappointing and frustrating. A scapegoat for these feelings must be found, and Garland is that scapegoat!”

Hope this helps.

[gab13by13]

9. Show me one of my posts where I stated that Trump should be in jail.

Every one of my posts had the same theme, Garland waited too long to investigate Trump.

The notion that we didn't know what DOJ was doing behind the scenes didn't pan out too well.

I only have a handful of news sources and experts who I go to and they all are in agreement that Garland waited too long before investigating Trump, Garland's pyramid strategy confirms that.

Is Joe coming? I think he/she is coming around to my opinions.

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. This explains everything:

I only have a handful of news sources and experts who I go to and they all are in agreement that Garland waited too long before investigating Trump

[gab13by13]

13. Thank you

I still do not understand your logic. Why did DOJ have to wait for NARA to tell it who stole the documents? Doesn't DOJ have better resources to find that out?

Some of the stolen documents were so top secret that they were not to leave a scif. Are you telling me that NARA had no idea that those types of documents were missing?

Even after NARA asked for DOJ's help, the FBI never investigated for 2 more months. Waiting 2 months to recover military-related nuclear top secret documents. How many people were fired over this debacle? How the hell did trump walk away with thousands of top secret documents? When is the FBI opening up an investigation into how that happened? Shouldn't DOJ want to know how Trump pulled that off?

Meh, soon we will get a report from Hur, that must be more important?

[Silent3]

16. It's a damned good explanation for everything

Why is it the only people I find defending the speed and tenacity of Garland and the DoJ are on DU?

Sure, I'm no expert on the inside details of how Garland and the DoJ operate, but neither are you.

Plenty of people who do know much more than you or I "are in agreement that Garland waited too long before investigating Trump".

Why is that? What makes your approach of assuming that everything we don't know, if we knew it, would have us cheering for Garland and the DoJ? Where are your experts who are full of praise for Garland and the DoJ, who think they've been doing a superb job going after Trump?

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. The absence of evidence is not evidence of DOJ inaction

That is the crux of this debate.

For over a year, we knew almost nothing about the status of DOJ’s investigations.

For some, that meant Garland and DOJ were indeed doing nothing.

But, as you probably know, DOJ doesn’t give the public updates on ongoing investigations, nor do they provide updates to congress, or TV lawyers who used to work at DOJ. Any congress people or TV lawyers who complained that Garland was doing nothing had no inside information- they didn’t know what they were talking about.

So, in the absence of any detailed verifiable information, people started to make shit up.

Garland was weak, meek, Milquetoast…all displacements of unresolved emotions and frustrations about not knowing what was going on

Then, gradually, from court transcripts and leaks from witnesses, we began to learn more.

In January 2022, after hearing arguments in late 2021 from Garland’s team (who now make up 90% of Smith’s team), SCOTUS ruled against Trump’s claims of Executive Privilege, and suddenly dozens of witnesses were compelled to testify. Shortly thereafter we learned that grand juries had been convened and meeting for months, hearing testimony from witnesses who weren’t claiming EP.

Gradually, some of the pieces of the puzzle started to fall into place. We have learned The day after Lisa Monaco was sworn in, Rudy’s phones and other devices were seized. A few weeks later, DOJ interviewed one of Alex Jones’ colleagues who was at the “War Room”. He has since entered into a cooperation agreement with DOJ. The TV lawyers didn’t say anything about this potentially significant development.

So, we have learned some of the things DOJ was doing in 2021, but can’t say what we know is everything DOJ was doing.

Then the WaPo published its infamous article that some point to as PROOF! that Garland deliberately stalled or sabotaged the investigation (when your sources are pro-Trump career employees, the story can be slanted), when, in fact, the incomplete and flawed report actually showed that Garland persevered despite resistance and interference from pro-Trump staffers at DOJ and FBI.

Why is it the only people I find defending the speed and tenacity of Garland and the DoJ are on DU?

Maybe you need to get out more, spend less time following clickbait headlines and watching TV lawyers on MSNBC.

A couple of places you might want to start are emptywheel.net and Just Security. These folks get into the weeds, reviewing court transcripts, warrants, rulings and other official documents so we don’t have to. They provide information and analysis not found in the short sound bites on cable news. If you find it too daunting to wade into the emptywheel archives, Marcy at emptywheel posts a video podcast every Friday that is quite accessible, and usually summarizes the major legal events of the week.

The women lawyers/law professors at the Strict Scrutiny podcast also provide excellent analysis.

Bottom line: for me, it’s not about praising Garland vs. Criticizing him, it’s about staying tethered to the real factual world, and not letting our emotions, formed in an information vacuum, lead us into unsupported conspiracy theories and assumptions of intentions without any proof.

[Silent3]

20. What, pray tell, is wrong with the "TV lawyers on MSNBC", as well as Democratic congressmen...

...of good repute, like Adam Schiff, that makes them unworthy of trust?

I've been to emptywheel before, and was unimpressed.

As for "The absence of evidence is not evidence of DOJ inaction", while that might be true, there's nothing the DoJ has every done to earn the benefit of the doubt here. There's no good reason to assume the best in absence of evidence to the contrary.

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. If there's no good reason to assume the best...

There’s certainly no good or bad reason to assume the worst.

As difficult as it may be for some, there are times when the only correct answer is “we don’t know”.

Regarding Schiff, the simple fact is, he doesn’t have access to any more information about the DOJ investigations than you or I do, which is how it is supposed to be. People have taken his past statements expressing frustration over the pace of the DOJ investigations (based on what is/was publicly known) and assumed his statement was based on some sort of inside knowledge (which it wasn’t) rather than his own emotions.

[Silent3]

23. Even if what we're getting is the best, then the best is woefully inadequate

Over three years out from an insurrection, and no one but some street riff-raff in jail?

It's utterly pathetic.

[Ohio Joe]

12. Your time line on tfg is incorrect

https://apnews.com/article/trump-documents-investigation-timeline-087f0c9a8368bb983a16b67dd31dcd4c

[republianmushroom]

14. Trump Definitely Getting Special Treatment

FBI resisted opening probe into Trump's role in Jan. 6 for more than a year

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&post&forum=1002&pid=18652127
Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/06/19/fbi-resisted-opening-probe-into-trumps-role-jan-6-more-than-year/

National security damage assessment from just security.org
... "Because of the remarkably sensitive nature of the documents the former president retained, and the shockingly insecure locations where they were held and transported (“in a ballroom, a bathroom and shower, an office space, his bedroom, and a storage room”), there are also potentially grave implications for U.S. national security. It is those national security implications, as evidenced in particular by the 31 counts lodged under the Espionage Act (18 U.S.C. § 793(e)), which we briefly lay out here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217990566

Read more: https://www.justsecurity.org/86887/national-security-implications-of-trumps-indictment-a-damage-assessment/

Trump Definitely Getting Special Treatment From The Courts

Former President Donald Trump often complains that he is being treated unfairly by the prosecutors charging him with crimes.
Trump is now the subject of three federal and state criminal cases – and it is true that he is being treated unlike other criminal defendants.
The prosecutors are treating Trump a lot better than the average criminal defendant.
Because Trump is not sitting in jail, he is well positioned to ask that his trials be postponed far longer than would an ordinary criminal case. Federal law generally requires “speedy” trials, which are considered a right to protect defendants.
Trump got a lengthy delay, though it’s not as long as his legal team requested. Trump asked that his classified documents trial be held after the November 2024 election, but his trial is scheduled to begin in May 2024. Federal prosecutors pushed for a December 2023 start date. These kinds of compromise decisions are common in legal decisions like deciding court dates.

https://crooksandliars.com/2023/08/trump-definitely-getting-special-treatment#google_vignette

See how the DOJ slow-walked and hesitated investigating Trump's coup: Melber breakdown - The Beat
The Washington Post reports the FBI "resisted opening a probe into Trump’s role in Jan. 6 for more than a year," due to the DOJ's “wariness about appearing partisan.” The Post adds the slow-walking led to internal complaints that this fear "chilled efforts to investigate the former president.” MSNBC Chief Legal Correspondent Ari Melber reports.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017838512

[Torchlight]

17. 91 criminal indictments and counting!

Millions in fines. Not enough shovels to move the posts.

[republianmushroom]

19. Probably would of been more indictments if the FBI

would have searched those 2 rooms in Mar-a-Largo and had searched Bedminster instead of taking
the word of a private contractor, that did search Bedminster, like an attorney did Mar-a Largo and said there were no more doc's. Possible, (?) yes (?).
Oh, and those gold post have been moved so often by the DoJ they are on wheels so shovels are not need just a string.

[spanone]

15. K&R