Had a "discussion" on Facebook with a Jill Stein supporter earlier today.

[cab67]

There was no talking sense Into him. Would a multi-party parliamentary system be better than what we have? I don't know; maybe. But we have the system we have. A third-party candidate will not win, and in this particular case, the wasted votes would otherwise go to the Democratic candidate.

Voting for a third-party candidate is an extremely selfish act, especially when Orange Julius Skeezer stands a real chance of winning.

It was like arguing with a red-hatter. Or arguing with a rock.

I just can't wrap my head around the view that Joe Biden and Moses Pray's cranky old uncle are insufficiently different. Some of these people give every indication of being able to read and write. Surely, they can see that no Democrat would have appointed a justice to the Supreme Court who would have voted to overturn Roe v Wade? Surely, they see that the ACA, despite its imperfections, is better than what we had before, and that people would suffer if it's ever repealed? Surely, they see that although Biden can (and should) take a harder line with Netanyahu, he's at least not interested in helping Putin conquer Ukraine? Surely they know the difference between someone not acting fast enough on climate change and someone who doesn't think climate is actually changing?

The only way I'll find a candidate who reflects my values perfectly is if I run for office myself. And I'd rather French-kiss a Humboldt squid than do that. Like most adults, I've come to peace with the fact that in the US system, our parties are the coalitions made by multiple parties in other countries, and that I have to put the common good ahead of my disagreements.

I don't get it. We all have our values and opinions, but no one should put their own ideological purity above the well-being of the whole damn world.

[lame54]

1. Was he on a unicorn searching for bigfoot?

[cab67]

6. Alas -

such a person would be far more interesting to meet.

[Aristus]

2. There are a lot of people out there who are just smart enough to think that they are smart enough.

And they are just as infuriating to argue with as a stone-cold stupid-ass.

[Sky Jewels]

3. If he's in a dark blue or dark red state it won't matter.

But in a swing state, yes, it definitely matters.

[cab67]

5. I actually don't know which state he's from.

I gave up before I figured that out. He's a lost cause.

[Cha]

11. Yeah, if he wants to get Sucked in by Stein's LIES.. so

be it. The GD TSF & Fascism in our WH is on them.

[TexasBushwhacker]

54. This is my biggest issue with the Electoral College

Shouldn't voter turnout be encouraged, even in non-swing states? How many people don't bother voting because their state always goes blue or red? All electoral votes, winner take all in most states, no matter how many people show up at the polls.

[Walleye]

4. You don't send anybody a message by losing elections

[cab67]

13. Great way of stating the fact.

[erronis]

55. But you may get some more rubles deposited in your off-shore account.

Better cash them soon, Jill.

[onecaliberal]

7. They're MAGAts who don't have the intestinal fortitude to admit it in public.

[cab67]

14. To defend this loser for a moment -

I'm not sure that's always the case.

This person isn't capable of accepting that the kinds of progressive policies we all want to see enacted can't be accomplished simply by voting for a candidate who might say the right things, but has no demonstrated capacity of accomplishing anything at the Federal level. Or in Stein's case, the regional, state, county, municipal, or neighborhood levels.

His ideals aren't wrong. The problem is with his inability to know the difference between the ideal and the real.

[NoRethugFriends]

29. there is zero ideal about Jill Stein but

[shrike3]

8. They have every excuse in the world

Most of which blames Democrats for all ills in the world. It's Dems' fault Roe v. Wade fell because Dems didn't codify Roe when they had the chance. Also, Bernie "would have won easily," so it's the Dems' fault for putting up Hillary instead. And you can't convince them the nom wasn't stolen from Bernie. Hillary won more primaries and delegates but that doesn't matter: the nom belonged to Bernie and was stolen from him.

[BunkieBandit]

10. Bernie would of won

No bout a doubt it

[Cha]

12. NO he Wouldn't have.

[TheKentuckian]

24. I lean towards he at least could have in a change election.

The movement is way too lazy and illogical to do anything but fail though.

There is a stone cold refusal to lay the necessary groundwork for a President Sanders type to have any ability to pass anything or execute a gameplan to put the unicorn legislation into action.

They refuse to build a bench or have anyone in place to man an executive branch.

Hell, the fools couldn't even really be bothered to show up for Sanders in the primary and seem upset that everyone didn't vote for who they would have if they could be bothered.

It would have been like a mirror Carter presidency except he would be drawing conservative ire.

[lapucelle]

48. I read profiles.

Mahalo, my friend!

[Cha]

50. Mahalo to you, Lapucelle!

You're Welcome

So Do I

[NanaCat]

16. TSF would have actually won in a landslide

Sanders couldn't win the voters in the primaries, especially not the base of black women--who hated his guts. Latin women were no fonder of him after he trashed one to her face for daring to want to be the first Latin woman to become a Senator.

If you can't win a party's base, you won't win beyond that base, either.

That's Politics 101.

[Celerity]

21. When and who was this that Sanders did this to?

Latin women were no fonder of him after he trashed one to her face for daring to want to be the first Latin woman to become a Senator.

Cortez Masto was the first Latina elected to the US Senate. Sanders endorsed her.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_Senate_election_in_Nevada

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_Senate_election_in_Nevada

[betsuni]

25. "Sanders was speaking to supporters in Boston Sunday when he was asked how a woman

could become the second Latina senator in history. 'It's not good enough for somebody to say, 'hey, I'm a Latina vote for me' that is not good enough. ... It is not good enough for somebody to say, 'I'm a woman, vote for me.'"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/21/sanders-identity-politics/94221972/

There are many sources for this, one can easily Google, it's well known. That's the reference.

[Celerity]

30. That is not what the other poster claimed, and I 100 per cent agree with what Sanders said.

Here are his actual words.

I find nothing wrong at all with what he said. I detest racial and gender reductionism. He did not 'trash' anyone, let alone 'to the face' of the first Latina attempting to run for the US Senate (which is what the other poster claimed).

It is never enough to just simply be of a certain ethnicity, race, or gender.

If that is enough for you, then perhaps the following are ok in your book?

[erronis]

56. Wonderful response and a great set of resources

Never sure if the poster(s) we respond to actually give-a-shit.

[TheKentuckian]

36. He was right.

Tim Scott and Uncle Clarence ain't helping a damn thing for me.

In fact, if anything I feel anti-represented by the motherfuckers.

I don't understand getting bent out of shape in the face of common sense.

Demographic representation is very valuable particularly for children to see themselves reflected but it is also parsecs away from self sufficient or even just made a complete mockery.

[betsuni]

37. No Democrats ran on "I'm a _____ , vote for me" and nothing else, no economic message, in 2016. That's the point.

Trump made the election about race and gender, identity, not Democrats. And Democrats DO "take on" and "stand up to" and fight for the working/middle classes. Hillary's most frequently used word in her speeches was "jobs." Not "woman." It's insulting.

[shrike3]

28. They managed to get some Americans to believe Biden is a socialist.

They would have had a field day with Bernie. I voted for Bernie in 2016. I don't think he'd have had as easy a time as we all thought he would

[betsuni]

39. Why "democratic socialism" was redefined as FDR/LBJ liberal Democratic policies and people started

calling themselves "FDR Democrats" as if liberal Democrats were the same as Republicans. It was and is incorrect that left and right wing populists are the same and Trump supporters are secretly waiting to vote for someone progressive enough.

[Rincewind]

45. Bernie couldn't win

the primary, how could he win in the general election?

[lapucelle]

47. Welcome to DU!

[UpInArms]

9. Show him this pic

Stein with Putin and Michael Flynn

[cab67]

15. Tried that.

He simply responded with another screed about how Joe Biden is somehow guilty of genocide.

Yeah, I think Biden can do more to persuade the Israeli Knesset of the need to really work toward peace. (Netanyahu is a lost cause - and yes, I understand Hamas is to blame for the current crisis.) But the Biden administration has done what it could within the confines of current geopolitical reality to at least make sure things don't get worse, and that's the best any US president can hope for right now. Anyone who thinks Trump would improve the situation is delusional.

This particular Steiniac is basically a one-issue voter wearing blinders. His issue is "does the candidate comport perfectly with my sense of entitlement," and it's led him down a hole of his own digging.

[NanaCat]

17. Tell him he's no liberal, then

Not if he's willing to sell out women and minorities for his own ego gratification. He's merely an over-privileged prat who has the luxury of not having to worry about what will happen to him if the GQP wins.

[LeftInTX]

18. Yeah, the far left supports Putin's invasion of Ukraine. Yet Joe Biden is "Genocide Joe"..Go figure.

[womanofthehills]

22. Because we are seeing dead & limbless kids from Palestine on our phones everyday

People are more upset over Gaza because 13,000 kids were killed & 40,000 injured in a short time & in Ukraine (still horrific) - around 500 to 600 kids killed in 2 yrs - and we are not seeing the war in Ukraine on our phones every day. I’ve by now probably seen 500 images or more of dead, burnt & limbless kids on Twitter, YouTube & TicToc but not one dead child from Ukraine. It’s all beyond horrible and so sad - I read about 500,000 Ukrainian men are dead or injured - horrific- but we don’t see the images.

[cab67]

23. I've seen the images.

[JustAnotherGen]

33. I met two women

December 2023 in Florence Italy whose father had died in the first few days of the illegal invasion. I see Ukraine, Haiti, and Sudan's pain - because I refuse to look away.

Also - I don't do the Musky Elmo app, ticktock - and generally only go to YouTube on my smart tv to watch county government meetings.

[Cha]

44. IT's NOT Pres Biden's falut. They need to

get some GD Clues Instead listening to Propaganda.

[yardwork]

46. We see only the images we choose to see.

There are images of dead and maimed people all over the internet. Some people choose to focus on images from some atrocities, but not others. Isn't it enough to see them once?

I don't understand how it's healthy to look at images of dead children every day. It's particularly unhelpful if the trauma of looking at these images causes one to vote against democracy.

[elocs]

19. Here in WI in '16, Jill Stein received more votes than Trump's margin of victory.

And those votes came overwhelmingly from the Left, evidently so confident that Hillary had the state in the bag. But then maybe they thought that because Clinton didn't make a single campaign visit to the state in the general election. Now even with just 10 electoral votes, no serious candidate takes WI for granted anymore.

[JohnSJ]

27. It wasn't just Wisconsin. In every critical swing state in 2016, Hillary lost by less than 1%, while Jill Stein

received 1% of the vote in those critical swing states.

Regardless, what they say, they are not progressive

I will never understand how Wisconsin voted for Johnson over Feingold

[betsuni]

31. Yes, Hillary says Trump had roughly the same number of votes as Romney in Wisconsin, no surge in

Republican turnout. Third party, not voting, switching to Trump in the final week.

And despite all the criticism she should've run a more populist campaign: "I don't believe it. Russ Feingold ran a passionately populist campaign for Senate and lost by much more than I did, while a champion of free trade, Senator Rob Portman, outperformed Trump in Ohio. Scott Walker, the right-wing Governor of Wisconsin, has won elections by busting unions and catering to the resentments of conservative rural voters, not by denouncing trade deals and corporations."

[elocs]

53. I think that Feingold ran an uninspired campaign in his rematch against Johnson in '16

as if he was concerned he would beat him. He would have been a good candidate to run against Walker in the recall election because he had a well known name across the state and it would have been just a year and a half later compared to 6 years for his rematch with Johnson. After that loss, Feingold just seemed to disappear.

[betsuni]

20. So confident in their ideological purity that others are not only wrong but enemies.

Like a religion with infidels who must be punished for not believing.

Ironic when someone boasts about being "socialist" when they have no sense of what a society is and leap directly to personal attacks and insults. They can't explain their opinions with their own words, use special buzzwords that only other members of the religion understand.

[JohnSJ]

26. To put it bluntly they are f**ked up in the head, and have absolutely no critical thinking skills. They are losers, and

will always be.

[barbaraann]

32. The only Jill Stein voter I've ever known was crazy.

She moved to Florida a few years ago because there "is more freedom there."

[Bernardo de La Paz]

41. Please don't push right wing talking points with right wing language. . . . . nt

[KS Toronado]

38. Hi

[Cha]

49. ...

[KS Toronado]

51. Pretty sure that was our anti-vaxer from Chicago.

Was it?

[Cha]

52. Prety Sure you are RIght!

[MichMan]

35. Stein sure had people here in 2016 throwing money at her for her fake recount

[JohnSJ]

42. No doubt about it, she suckered people into that one

[betsuni]

43. That surprised me -- why anyone trusted her.