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According to CNN the economy is tanking (Original Post) orangecrush Apr 10 OP
High? at 3.4%? The kids writing headlines don't remember the 1970s bucolic_frolic Apr 10 #1
Really, when I needed to borrow money, interest was 16%. When I had money to invest, interest of 0% Walleye Apr 10 #2
Exactly Rebl2 Apr 10 #54
In 1979 Mme. Defarge Apr 10 #15
I think I had 7% in 1987. LiberalFighter Apr 10 #52
We paid ours off early too. Mme. Defarge Apr 10 #66
Inflation is not just up 3.5%. All Mixed Up Apr 10 #16
Inflation is measured annually or month to month bucolic_frolic Apr 10 #17
It doesn't matter how it's reported. All Mixed Up Apr 10 #18
So what you're saying is we need a recession to break even. bluesbassman Apr 10 #23
Such a recession was tried in Britain in the 1920s DBoon Apr 10 #45
It's not even about breaking even.. All Mixed Up Apr 10 #53
Sure, but over the last 50 years the average annual inflation rate is around 3.8% Voltaire2 Apr 10 #29
Over the last 30 years, the average inflation rate is around 2%. All Mixed Up Apr 10 #50
Poster is correct... cumulative inflation up 18% since January 2021. WarGamer Apr 10 #24
However, If Using The 40 Year Historical... ProfessorGAC Apr 10 #42
see #24. You're correct. WarGamer Apr 10 #25
historic US inflation rates Celerity Apr 10 #51
Tech workers are seeing some of the highest layoffs since 2009! jmbar2 Apr 10 #3
As a long-time tech worker, this is kind of overdue. Technologies do change, and Industries do move onto SWBTATTReg Apr 10 #28
I never really recovered from that era jmbar2 Apr 10 #35
Sorry to hear this, that's the field I started in, in training, which is weird, I hadn't been in software (my degree) SWBTATTReg Apr 10 #55
Roughly translated - werdna Apr 10 #4
Bingo orangecrush Apr 10 #48
Morning Joe had a focus group of independant doc03 Apr 10 #5
The power of propaganda constantly repeated made obvious. Without any doubt, it works. Marcus IM Apr 10 #7
I'm very confused Mad_Machine76 Apr 10 #33
It all is about inflation. nt doc03 Apr 10 #34
Deflation from lockdowns NickB79 Apr 10 #38
The inflation rate in 2021 and 2022 was a direct result of the Covid pandemic. patphil Apr 10 #60
I wrote about this last week here, gab13by13 Apr 10 #6
Ok see how you like fascism idiots. triron Apr 10 #8
Yes, but we have to experience fascism at the same time Silent3 Apr 10 #14
According to the economy Flatrat Apr 10 #9
I love when inflation is talked about ScratchCat Apr 10 #10
Bingo! Exactly gab13by13 Apr 10 #12
I was telling people in spring 2021 ScratchCat Apr 10 #21
The farmer near me that sells excess eggs raised his prices 50%. This is not just big corporations. Silent Type Apr 10 #47
I have chickens & chicken feed keeps going up womanofthehills Apr 11 #67
That's what he said when he announced increase, cost of feed. Silent Type Apr 11 #68
When we have inflation during Republican administrations, it's an unstoppable force of nature 0rganism Apr 10 #26
From what i read..... TheRealNorth Apr 10 #11
Did you see, gab13by13 Apr 10 #13
Let's hold off calling for nationalization of oil until after the election. I want Dems to win. Silent Type Apr 10 #19
we're nearing $6/gal again in SoCal WarGamer Apr 10 #37
Saw oil is up around $90/barrel again NickB79 Apr 10 #39
I stopped watching CNN after the Trump town hall JuJuChen Apr 10 #20
Last month Avalon Sparks Apr 10 #22
I just purchased a 3lb bag of Honey Crisp apples. videohead5 Apr 10 #31
That is probably an exceptional sale price TheRealNorth Apr 10 #32
Yes videohead5 Apr 10 #61
Calculated today Avalon Sparks Apr 10 #57
I guess I'm more frugal videohead5 Apr 10 #62
Yes, and cheato also gave a clear senseandsensibility Apr 10 #27
Just the insignificant Truth Social sector Blue Owl Apr 10 #30
CNN has tanked ages ago malaise Apr 10 #36
I cannot pretend things aren't difficult Calculating Apr 10 #40
No: according to CNN the market dropped 500 points. brooklynite Apr 10 #41
Cmon! TheProle Apr 10 #43
A little misinformation there. It's a one-day report. ificandream Apr 10 #44
So they made it orangecrush Apr 10 #49
They did nothing wrong. ificandream Apr 10 #56
They've had plenty of articles on their main page about the market finishing at record highs... All Mixed Up Apr 10 #64
Very true. ificandream Apr 11 #70
You clearly don't remember the Fairness Doctrine brooklynite Apr 10 #65
Inflation is not some ethereal force angrychair Apr 10 #46
CNN? Who Dat? 🤔 LenaBaby61 Apr 10 #58
All electric Ford Mach-E codfisherman Apr 10 #59
It's election year and they want a horse race. Emile Apr 10 #63
As usual lower & mid income folks hurting - cost of borrowing is too high (interest rates) BUT TBF Apr 11 #69

Walleye

(31,463 posts)
2. Really, when I needed to borrow money, interest was 16%. When I had money to invest, interest of 0%
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 11:37 AM
Apr 10

That’s what boomers lived with. When I was in high school candy bars for a dime gas for $.30 a gallon. I’m tired of hearing these kids complain about a little bit of inflation. As long as people keep spending, inflation will go up

Rebl2

(13,790 posts)
54. Exactly
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:32 PM
Apr 10

They were high in the late 70’s and eighties when I wanted to buy a house. Eventually we built a house, and interest was around six percent.

LiberalFighter

(52,127 posts)
52. I think I had 7% in 1987.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:27 PM
Apr 10

I was single and paid it off in 2007 I think. I was paying more than I needed to each month too. I didn't have a credit card until a few years after.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
16. Inflation is not just up 3.5%.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:46 PM
Apr 10

That 3.5% is on top of the 5% inflation seen in March, 2023, which is on top of the 8.5% inflation seen in March, 2022, which is on top of the 2.6% inflation seen in March, 2021.

That means inflation is up nearly 20% since March, 2020.

In a healthy economy, that stretch would have yielded, on average, only an 8% increase.

We're more than double that.

Remember: inflation doesn't just reset to 0 every year. Costs are still dramatically higher than they were in 2021.

If inflation had only grown at 3.5% the last three years, it wouldn't be as big of an issue but it didn't.

bucolic_frolic

(44,050 posts)
17. Inflation is measured annually or month to month
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:52 PM
Apr 10

The financial press does not report inflation numbers by adding them together. Maybe you got that from Bartiromo World?

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
18. It doesn't matter how it's reported.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 01:00 PM
Apr 10

Are you under the assumption inflation just resets every year?

Every number is on top of previous rising cost.

That's why it's so important to get these numbers as low as possible because costs are already high due to a huge spike in Inflation early in Biden's presidency.

Things are still way more expensive than they were in March, 2021.

So, Inflation just being up 3.5% over last March wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't up 20% over the last three years.

bluesbassman

(19,422 posts)
23. So what you're saying is we need a recession to break even.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 02:06 PM
Apr 10

That means a significant increase in unemployment. Yeah, that’ll be good for the economy.

DBoon

(22,521 posts)
45. Such a recession was tried in Britain in the 1920s
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 04:22 PM
Apr 10

It was an attempt to roll back price increases from WWI.

It resulted in some miserable economic times for British workers:https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5948/economics/uk-economy-in-the-1920s/

There are worse things than 5% inflation, much much worse things

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
53. It's not even about breaking even..
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:28 PM
Apr 10

There's always going to be inflation. Even out of the Great Recession, we only had one year (2009) where we actually saw deflation on average for the year.

But we're averaging a 3.3% increase so far this year (and it's gone up each of the last three months). If it stays at that 3.3%, that would be the largest yearly average since 2008 when you exclude 2021, 2022 and 2023.

Not counting 2021, 2022 and 2023, even March's 3.5% is higher than we're used to seeing. The last time we hit that total (again, not counting 2021, 2022 and 2023) for a monthly gain was October, 2011.

So, in the context of the last 13 years, even this month is generally high.

We don't need to break even but yes, inflation probably needs to get below 2%, where it was for 108 months before 2021 and so far there's no evidence of that happening.

So, expect the Fed to not lower interest rates.

Voltaire2

(13,690 posts)
29. Sure, but over the last 50 years the average annual inflation rate is around 3.8%
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 02:39 PM
Apr 10

So we are back within normal levels after the post pandemic spike. The point being that there isn't an inflation crisis. Moderate inflation has been normal for a very long time. Inflation right now is on the high end of moderate. It is not a crisis.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
50. Over the last 30 years, the average inflation rate is around 2%.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:19 PM
Apr 10

We're still well above that.

To put that into context, the average for 2023 was 4.1%. Not counting the proceeding two years of Biden's term, that alone would be the highest average yearly inflation the US has seen since 1991, where it was 4.2%.

Right now, we're at an average of of about 3.3% the first three months of 2024 (and it's increased each month so far this year - from 3.1 in January, to 3.2 in February to 3.5 in March).

Excluding 2021, 2022 and 2023, that 3.3% average would be the highest yearly inflation average since 2008 (3.8).

Now I'm not even getting into the 8.0 average we saw in 2022, which was the highest yearly average since 1981.

The problem is that the US saw an incredible run of low inflation. From 2009 to 2020, the highest yearly average was in 2011 at 3.2. But that was just a blip.

2009: -0.4 (we actually saw deflation after the recession)
2010: 1.6
2011: 3.2
2012: 2.1
2013: 1.5
2014: 1.6
2015: .1
2016: 1.3
2017: 2.1
2018: 2.4
2019: 1.8
2020: 1.2

In just three years, from 2021 through 2023, the average inflation rate jumped by 16.8 points.

From 2011 to 2020, nine years, that rate only jumped by a total of 17.3 points.

In just three years, inflation jumped by nearly the same amount as the previous nine years combined on average.

That's why these numbers are not good. Because costs are already extremely high, especially compared to where they were in the 2010s.

If we were looking at a situation where 2021, 2022 and 2023 were, on average, 3.5 points - you'd have a point. It wouldn't be as big of a deal. Maybe some concern that the market was a bit too hot but nothing to be terribly concerned about.

Now, though? They're still well above normal when you factor in the last 30 years.

And the trend is ticking up, which should be the bigger concern here.

But the truth is that people are feeling it and high inflation persists because we're still seeing a decent-ish increase each month. At least compared to the last 30 years.

ProfessorGAC

(66,119 posts)
42. However, If Using The 40 Year Historical...
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 04:06 PM
Apr 10

...average rate of inflation of 3.8% over that same 3.25 years, we get 12.88%
Now, that 5.12% is significant, but it's a bit misleading to announce 18% as a problem, without defining the magnitude.
In reality, it only cost $51 pet thousand of expenses more than it would have without the COVID triggered spike.
People too often, see a number like 18% and think that everything simply went up 18% higher than it was supposed to cost.

jmbar2

(5,033 posts)
3. Tech workers are seeing some of the highest layoffs since 2009!
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 11:37 AM
Apr 10

Those of us who took severe financial hits during the Great Recession of 2009 can remember how gut-wrenching that era was. This is the first rodeo for younger workers.

I sympathize with their angst.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/07/layoffs-rise-to-the-highest-for-any-february-since-2009-challenger-says.html

SWBTATTReg

(22,550 posts)
28. As a long-time tech worker, this is kind of overdue. Technologies do change, and Industries do move onto
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 02:24 PM
Apr 10

other tech-related, often times, better tech to employ in their businesses.

Fortunately, the tech changes don't make it into the Business World 100%, since some businesses continue to use old platforms (don't want to spend the money, want to continue to use the older tech), so they'll be jobs out there, it's just that the raises and such won't be coming as much as before. Some of my friends/acquaintances are making insane amounts of money on these jobs that employ the new software languages out there. I still can't believe the money amounts.

And yes, I do remember the shake down in early 2008, 2009, etc. I was planning for my retirement then at that time, and then WHAM, the whole thing collapsed, the markets, real estate, everything. I had to put my plans to retire onto the back burner until things 'calmed down' a bit.

jmbar2

(5,033 posts)
35. I never really recovered from that era
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 03:30 PM
Apr 10

I was working on the training side - always the first to go, and the last to get hired again when business picked up. Those were some very lean times.

At least then, housing was somewhat affordable. I cannot imagine getting laid off with today's high housing costs.

SWBTATTReg

(22,550 posts)
55. Sorry to hear this, that's the field I started in, in training, which is weird, I hadn't been in software (my degree)
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:39 PM
Apr 10

that long, so I wasn't loaded up w/ experience, just a new hire out of school. But, as the years went on, I did get into a lot of related fields, got into negotiating w/ agreements between companies in the exchange of data, starting up w/ EDI (still brand new to the industry at that time), so it was overall good.

And you're right, training is usually the first to go, but I would have thought that you would taken you, w/ the knowledge you had, and used you in a production mode, that is, support live environment vs. a training mode. Hopefully by now, you're more in a stable environment/job, and you have no worries.

Take care!

werdna

(571 posts)
4. Roughly translated -
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 11:45 AM
Apr 10

"How dare Joe Biden threaten to make us billionaires pay our fair share of taxes! We'll show him!!"

Expect more of this as the election draws near.

doc03

(35,598 posts)
5. Morning Joe had a focus group of independant
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 11:48 AM
Apr 10

voters that voted for Biden in 2020. When asked about the economy 8 out the 9 said Trumps economy was better. One of them said Biden's economy is a disaster.

Marcus IM

(2,477 posts)
7. The power of propaganda constantly repeated made obvious. Without any doubt, it works.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 11:59 AM
Apr 10

Corporate media are not on our side.

End of story.

Bookmark and watch ...



Mad_Machine76

(24,530 posts)
33. I'm very confused
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 03:19 PM
Apr 10

How was Trump's economy a success? What made it a "success"? What makes Biden's a disaster (aside from recovering from COVID, which was exacerbated by Trump's negligence/incompetence)? I would love somebody to dig a bit deeper with some of these focus groups.

NickB79

(19,349 posts)
38. Deflation from lockdowns
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 03:35 PM
Apr 10

Gas prices were $1.50 because half the country was at home, and that's all a lot of people remember, it seems

patphil

(6,353 posts)
60. The inflation rate in 2021 and 2022 was a direct result of the Covid pandemic.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 07:37 PM
Apr 10

7% in 2021, and 6.5% in 2022.
People should remember that the first 2 years of a president's term the economy is still reacting to what happened in the previous president's term. And that was all Covid.
Given the disaster of the Covid pandemic, we've actually rebounded pretty well. However, it's still very important for the Biden administration to pull the number down to 3% or less over the next few months.
There's a whole lot of people out there who aren't ready to accept what happened, given the struggle they have paying their bills.
All they remember is that inflation used to be low, and they want to go back to that time.
To tell you the truth, it was lower when Obama was president than when Trump was.

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

gab13by13

(22,024 posts)
6. I wrote about this last week here,
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 11:57 AM
Apr 10

and was roundly criticized for using the phrase, "negative Fed speak."

What is so magical about a number? What is so magical about keeping inflation at 2.0? Just maybe the country's economy will do just fine at 3.0 - 3.5?

What terrible event will happen if the Fed cuts interest rates 2 or 3 times this year?

I know this that when economists cry about not cutting rates or even talk of raising them, the stock market tanks.

Cut the fucking interest rates like you promised, stop with the "negative Fed speak." It's almost like someone wants the economy to tank. I know, the stock market isn't the economy.

If we are truly concerned about inflation then have the government take over Big Oil. We are now a net exporter of petroleum products. When someone says Israel and Iran may go to war and the price of gas jumps, we won't have that scenario when government owns the fossil fuel industry, inflation problem solved.

Silent3

(15,623 posts)
14. Yes, but we have to experience fascism at the same time
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:40 PM
Apr 10

I'm not fond of group punishment like that.

ScratchCat

(2,072 posts)
10. I love when inflation is talked about
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:04 PM
Apr 10

As if it is some magical or existential force, maybe even like climate, that exists in and of itself. Never before in the history of this country did the corporate media treat "inflation" this way. But its not "inflation" now; its little more than "spiteflation" where wealthy corporations are raising prices to spite working Americans hoping they wont vote Democrat this time around.

gab13by13

(22,024 posts)
12. Bingo! Exactly
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:36 PM
Apr 10

I understand during Covid we had a supply problem, there were no hand towels, Kleenex, toilet paper, on the shelves, supply and demand, prices rose.

The supply issue is over but prices didn't react to increased supply.

Let me take a stab at the cause of inflation, it's pretty technical, I took Econ 101;

I take 4 prescription drugs, 3 from a mail order company but one I do not. I got a text from the mail order company informing me that I can save money if I get my blood thinner from them, only $399.00 for a 3 month supply. I get my blood thinner from my local drug store, same popular brand, for $10.00 a month and that deal is from the company that makes the blood thinner.

I don't have to spell out what the inflation problem is.

ScratchCat

(2,072 posts)
21. I was telling people in spring 2021
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 02:00 PM
Apr 10
I understand during Covid we had a supply problem, there were no hand towels, Kleenex, toilet paper, on the shelves, supply and demand, prices rose.

The supply issue is over but prices didn't react to increased supply.


That everyone from big corporations to the local home builder would be inventing excuse after excuse for eternity as to why a)prices can't come down and b)why they have to keep going up. And here we are...

0rganism

(24,084 posts)
26. When we have inflation during Republican administrations, it's an unstoppable force of nature
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 02:16 PM
Apr 10

During Democratic administrations, it's completely controllable if only the politicians cared about the people.
Inflation is so amazing! Callous yet sensitive, impervious yet vulnerable, cruel yet empathetic -- truly a breeding ground of contradictions and paradoxes, rather like the media which reports on it.

TheRealNorth

(9,531 posts)
11. From what i read.....
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:05 PM
Apr 10

Gas and housing are the leading causes of the inflation increase. So this should have been expected - that the bastard oil companies and private equity firms would raise prices to increase profits and hurt the Democrats in an election year.

gab13by13

(22,024 posts)
13. Did you see,
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 12:39 PM
Apr 10

that just the speculation of a war between Israel and Iran caused gasoline to go up?

Maybe our government needs to take over Big Oil and shit like that won't happen. We are now a net exporter of petroleum products.

Avalon Sparks

(2,569 posts)
22. Last month
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 02:05 PM
Apr 10

Last month I paid slightly less than 18 dollars for 6 Orange Bell Peppers and 4 Honey crisp apples at Kroger.
People are definitely hurting.

TheRealNorth

(9,531 posts)
32. That is probably an exceptional sale price
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 03:06 PM
Apr 10

Checked the prices at my nearest Kroger and it's 6.79 for a 3 lb bag or $2.29/lb for individual apples

Avalon Sparks

(2,569 posts)
57. Calculated today
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:54 PM
Apr 10

6 yellow bell peppers and a 3lb bag of honey crisp is $15.43. There’s 7-8 smaller apples in the 3lb bag then the 4 bigger single ones I got last month.

Calculating

(2,962 posts)
40. I cannot pretend things aren't difficult
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 03:54 PM
Apr 10

My car insurance just went up $100 randomly because of inflation, my health insurance went up $50 a month, medical bills are out of control even for simple stuff, etc.

ificandream

(9,565 posts)
44. A little misinformation there. It's a one-day report.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 04:15 PM
Apr 10

And they didn't say "the economy was tanking." They reported the one-day drop in the Dow. Kind of a big difference there.

orangecrush

(19,893 posts)
49. So they made it
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:11 PM
Apr 10

Their top headline and added 10 articles all supporting the same conclusion with no opposite point of view, like when we had, what was that called, "The Fairness Doctrine"?

ificandream

(9,565 posts)
56. They did nothing wrong.
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 06:47 PM
Apr 10

They headlined the main story about the Dow Jones drop and grouped related stories around it. Not sure what you're looking for. A 500 point Dow drop is what it is. It doesn't mean, however, we're on the verge of a depression.

 

All Mixed Up

(597 posts)
64. They've had plenty of articles on their main page about the market finishing at record highs...
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 09:25 PM
Apr 10

A 500 drop is significant any way you cut it.

But it's already fallen off their top page.

People just want perfect coverage and for every news source to pretend everything is fine.

brooklynite

(95,592 posts)
65. You clearly don't remember the Fairness Doctrine
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 09:54 PM
Apr 10

It didn't require objective reporting. It didn't require TV stations to provide alternative reporting. It required time be given to alternative opinions if the station expressed an opinion. And that time could be at 2 in the morning.

Add to which, it never applied to news outlets that didn't utilized over the air broadcasting.

angrychair

(8,865 posts)
46. Inflation is not some ethereal force
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 04:38 PM
Apr 10

In theory, at it most simple explanation, its corporations raising prices because of increase costs related to labor and/or raw materials. Either due to demand exceeding supply or increase costs because of the availability of raw materials.

That is not what is happening. Not to any significant extent that prices should be increasing across all business sectors.

Also if prices have gone up to offset increases in supply demands of other expenses, profits would remain largely flat or companies financials would be a little worse than previous quarters because inflation is a lagging indicator. That is not happening.
Corporations are reporting record profits, repeatedly, quarter after quarter. Some have reported the largest quarterly profits in their history. Corporate stock buybacks are being done at a record pace. Corporations, collectively, have built up the largest cash reserves in US history.

None of this is the sign of an inflationary economy. Its is a sign that corporations are screwing the consumer and price gouging for profit. This is not just my opinion but the opinion of noted economists like Robert Reich.

We are being played.

codfisherman

(89 posts)
59. All electric Ford Mach-E
Wed Apr 10, 2024, 07:21 PM
Apr 10

Whatever the economic situation, CNN succeeded in getting 59 more people (myself included) in looking at that ad by clicking on this. Yay team!

TBF

(32,305 posts)
69. As usual lower & mid income folks hurting - cost of borrowing is too high (interest rates) BUT
Thu Apr 11, 2024, 09:58 AM
Apr 11

there is also the problem that multi-national corporations are making billions. They have no problem with raising their prices & over-compensating their executives. The Fed does need to hear about the rates, but they can't do much (at least in short term) about the companies and their shenanigans. What we need is these companies held to account, and that's going to be difficult in an election year because the strongest lever on that is tax hikes.

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