What I Saw at Columbia's Demonstration

[Mosby]

-snip-

I was at Columbia hours before the police came in and liberated Hamilton Hall from its occupiers. Unlike protesters of the past, who were usually eager to share with others what they thought and why, these demonstrators would generally not speak or make eye contact with members of the press, or, as they say, “corporate media.”

I was on a bench taking notes as a group of young women, all in sunglasses, masks, and kaffiyehs, walked by. “Friends, please come say hello and tell me what you think,” I called. They marched past, not making eye contact, save one, a beautiful girl of about 20. “I’m not trained,” she said. Which is what they’re instructed to say to corporate-media representatives who will twist your words. “I’m barely trained, you’re safe,” I called, and she laughed and half-halted. But her friends gave her a look and she conformed.

I watched small demonstrations of dozens:

“Israel bombs, Columbia pays! How many kids did you kill today?”

In front of Hamilton Hall, students milled about and chanted. From a second-floor open window, next to the window police would enter that night, two male students with a big rough rope were hauling up food—vegetable sandwiches on wheat bread, Dunkin’ Donuts—from the first floor entrance way. They hauled that black plastic supermarket hand cart up like they were re-enacting the siege of Sevastopol. There was a lot of re-enacting going on.

What struck me, beyond the chanting and bull horns, is that the demonstrators didn’t seem to want to make progress on questions you’d think would engage them. If they cared about the pummeling of Gaza, about overall U.S. policy in the Mideast, or the destructive impact of Benjamin Netanyahu’s leadership in Israel, half of New York City would march alongside them. But they don’t want allies. Nor did they seem interested in marching in compassion for the people of Gaza.

-snip-

Gift link:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-i-saw-at-columbia-demonstration-masks-lack-of-engagement-4c778d4c?st=ctdtb2l3k49tx45&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Different link:
What I Saw at Columbia’s Demonstration https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-i-saw-at-columbia-demonstration-masks-lack-of-engagement-4c778d4c

[wnylib]

1. Could not see an article at the link, just category headings.

[Biophilic]

2. Link worked fine for me. Try it again. Nt

[wnylib]

7. I tried both links 3 times each. Always the same.

I've opened gift links before with no problem, but these just aren't working for me. Don't know why.

[Biophilic]

14. That must be frustrating. Sorry.

I hate it when my computer stuff doesn’t work. I’m a first grader when it come to all our internet etc stuff.

[question everything]

48. Try this

https://archive.ph/YZqXu

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. Yeah, I wouldn't talk to someone with a Ronald Reagan foot fetish either

[Carlitos Brigante]

33. Gross (on her part) but definitely fair.. nt

[LexVegas]

4. Useful idiots. nt

[TeamProg]

35. You mean Peggy Noonan?

Margaret Ellen Noonan (born September 7, 1950), known as Peggy Noonan, is a weekly columnist for The Wall Street Journal, and contributor to NBC News and ABC News. She was a primary speechwriter and Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan from 1984 to 1986 and has maintained a center-right leaning in her writings since leaving the Reagan administration.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

5. While I agree with the sentiment...

Peggy Noonan? Can't we have someone who isn't a monster herself say these things?

[Sympthsical]

8. I think the Columbia counselor's quote is worthwhile, though

The night the New York City Police Department was taking back Hamilton Hall I spoke with a friend who counsels students at Columbia. He said many students who’d sought him out the past few weeks had mixed or unsure feelings about Israel and were trying to think it through. The demonstrators weren’t.

Those students don’t believe the terrorist organization Hamas was unjustified in its actions on Oct. 7, he said. They are “totally on board with neo-Marxist oppressor-oppressed ideology.” They don’t have compassion for Gaza and its people “any more than they’ve had compassion for Ukraine.” They are driven by an anti-Israeli animus that is also and inextricably an anti-American animus. “They see themselves as great freedom fighters—they are Mandela in South Africa.”

I mean, that's an almost verbatim repetition of the sentiments I've seen expressed in many places. The Mandela comparison to Hamas has been made here, multiple times, quite cheerfully.

And I imagine someone counseling Columbia students would be in a position to know.

Discarding the rest of Noonan, that part still interests me. It's pretty consistent with all evidence.

[Mosby]

10. I wanted to include that bit.

But it would have been too much. I don't have a good opinion of Noonan myself, but what I've noticed over the years is that a lot of conservative writers often come at the IP conflict and ME affairs with less bias than normal, except when it involves liberals, democrats etc.

[Cha]

15. The Idiots Insult Nelson Mandela... he was Not the Gang Rapists, Mutilating Slaughter Pig Slosh of Hamas.

Mahalo for that.

[Cha]

18. Oh and they think it's just fine that Asshole Putin Invaded Ukraine and

If they hate America so Much.. Why the Hell don't they Go somewhere they don't "Hate".. Wherever the fuck that is?

[obamanut2012]

20. America, love it or leave it?

Interesting

[Cha]

26. The protesters "hate America" No it's Not "interesting" a fucking bit.

[oldsoftie]

24. Ahh but then they wouldnt be able to further their careers as professional protestors!!

Most of these idiots dont even realize they'd be the FIRST to get thrown in jail or killed if they went to the places they claim to be supporting.

[Cha]

29. Exactly.. Where else are they going to be able to take over buildings, destroy poprerty,

throw their Authoritarian weight around.. Smear buildings, Harass Jewish Students and People in the Streets that would be More Suitable for them?s

[OrangeJoe]

38. Ukraine

The only place I've seen opposition to Ukraine is on the right. Show us some examples of these same students opposing Ukraine.

[Cha]

44. " Why America's Far Right and Far Left Have Aligned Against Helping Ukraine"

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/04/us-politics-ukraine-russia-far-right-left-progressive-horseshoe-theory/

Why some American leftists are critical of U.S. assistance to Ukraine

https://news.yahoo.com/why-some-american-leftists-are-critical-of-us-assistance-to-ukraine-185013163.html

[OrangeJoe]

45. On the fringe

An important piece from your citation: "In fact, all of the members of Congress who belong to the Democratic Socialists of America, including Bush and Reps. Jamaal Bowman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Rashida Tlaib, have broadly backed the Biden administration’s alliance with Ukraine."

So yeah, you can probably find a couple of people on the left opposing arming Ukraine, but they are few and far between.

[Cha]

47. There's the Proof .. Deny it all you want.. doesn't change reality.

[OrangeJoe]

58. Where's the proof

What exactly are you addressing here? I said all the members of the Progressive caucus voted for aid to Ukraine. Not sure what you are getting at and what I am supposedly denying.

[Cha]

59. Keep Denying Doesn't change reality one bit

[OrangeJoe]

62. Avoiding the question

I can't tell if you are being evasive or willfully ignorant. Just what am I denying? If you can't specify it, stop repeating yourself. It's a bad look.

[Cha]

64. Still denying?

[OrangeJoe]

66. Arguing with a bot

Got it. You're a bot that got stuck on a phrase. Bye.

[Cha]

67. lol

[shrike3]

51. Protestors at Columbia were far and few between.

Campus population of over 31,000. Little over 200 protestors arrested.

[OrangeJoe]

25. Peggy Noonan

"They don’t have compassion for Gaza and its people any more than they’ve had compassion for Ukraine.” And Peggy knows this how?
Here's a bit of background on this liar: https://www.mediamatters.org/peggy-noonan/peggy-noonans-shameless-attempt-rewrite-her-own-history

[misanthrope]

37. My memory might be shaky since I only lived through the 1980s instead of hearing about it second/third hand

like these demonstrators, but I don't recall Nelson Mandela authorizing legions of Black South Africans to enact a coordinated attack on music festivals to wantonly rape, kill, and seize white South African hostages. To the contrary, when Winnie Mandela's charges enacted their "reign of terror" during Nelson's time in prison, it earned her rebuke from the Soweto-based anti-apartheid movement and the African National Congress. It also created rift between Winnie and Nelson that resulted in their subsequent divorce and her being recast as a notorious figure in the history of the anti-apartheid movement.

[G_j]

6. Not sure Peggy is

the best source for an accurate view of this.

[krkaufman]

40. Peggy Noonan?

I read the above excerpt and wondered who the author was, with such a patronizing, condescending tone throughout. Should've been obvious.

Pretty suspect to post this content without noting she's the author.

[IbogaProject]

9. This is aimed at hurting our party

Last edited Fri May 3, 2024, 02:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Joe Biden has been an amazing president but now this organized dark money initative is taking over the media. This whole campus protest thing is a hit job on Biden's great work.

Now after 75 years of arms overproduction and the ensuing overuse there is a selective outrage of one instance pinning the blame for this soly on Biden and the Democratic party. I recall weapons going there and every where else all four years of that last Administration. The defense budget increased each of those four years too.
This is clearly a funded campaign to distract from all the GOP criminal trials, Abortion and how horribly worse the GOP has gone from how bad they've been the last 75 year's. That last bill to fund Israel, Ukraine and the rest came with a veto proof level of votes how is this Joe's fault? It isn't it's he's stuck holding the bag of mess we've, been filling for decades.

[oldsoftie]

27. These people aren't funded by the GOP. These are anarchists & this isnt their1st time

They've showed themselves at almost EVERY major protest over the past several years; even under trump. And when the cops show who's been arrested most of the time a large number aren't from anywhere near the area. Many of these protests are peaceful until these people show up. They need to be exposed.
It happened several times at the "Cop City" riots in Atlanta; most everyone arrested was from out of state.

[LisaM]

43. It happened in Seattle in 1999.

There were a number of planned and permitted marches, but a group of anarchists showed up the night before (masked) and wreaked havoc (everyone remembers the Nike-shod guy kicking in the window of the Nike store). It deflected the issue. That particular group (based in Oregon, I think) showed up at many events within the next few years and erased all hope of thoughtful debate, especially since the media fixated on them.

[misanthrope]

55. Which shows how little they learned from history

Modern examples of successful non-violent resistance movements aren't hard to find, but they are often too difficult for the undisciplined to emulate.

[maxsolomon]

11. Yeah, Peggy Noonan.

I don't disagree with all of her assessment, but honestly, that was a bit facile, and the kids who talked to that unnamed counselor were ill-served.

The masking is, unfortunately, pretty smart. It's not the police they're trying to protect themselves from, it's doxxing by internet trolls. Of course, when you're arrested, your name becomes public.

[gulliver]

12. I blame the college administrators and faculty.

It's becoming clear that mass incompetence, disguised cynically as a priggish, showy, ultra-liberalism, has gained a foothold in some educational institutions and is using them for a gravy train. We need some serious reform there. It gives liberalism a bad name, and these institutions have to charge students and parents too much money to pay the salaries of, in effect, opportunist, deadwood, "all talk" types. People who deserve the upward mobility and wisdom that a university can provide are being robbed.

[obamanut2012]

22. You are saying literally what DeSantis said to ruin higher education in Florida

Liberals need to quit saying this, as well as "outside agitators." It is literally the language of the ultra right in this country.

[oldsoftie]

52. When thats literally who's being arrested how is it the "ultra right" language?

As I've pointed out elsewhere, you can look at almost EVERY protest over the past several years that had a bad outcome & see the same pattern. Protest starts, people march & give speeches, a few days go by and suddenly it turns ugly. Arrests are made & nearly ALL are from out of state, or in these cases, not students. They come with their faces covered, equipped & hijack what HAD been peaceful protests.

Look who was arrested at Columbia & tell me its just the language of the ultra right. No, its the truth. And what we should be doing is finding out WHO is backing them. Because none of those helps the Biden campaign.

[cab67]

32. The "all talk" types are a small minority on pretty much all college campuses.

They get a lot of attention, as people who talk a lot tend to do, but most of us are working hard to provide the real education our students (with our without their parents) are paying for.

I haven't interacted with protesters on my campus. I have no idea what their individual motivations are. But I highly doubt they're absorbed from faculty activists in most cases.

[LisaM]

53. College presidents are chosen for their fundraising abilities.

The President of Columbia (who has the title of Baroness) has ties with the World Bank.

It's been a problem in academia for years, and this also affects the faculty universities choose (they want big names) and the programs they cut, especially the liberal arts.

These presidents come from the corporate world and I honestly don't think they are equipped to deal with these situations and how to handle them.

[ripcord]

13. Can you imagine the chaos if they just allowed the students to speak their minds?

Their speech must be controlled.

[Hekate]

17. Speaking your mind loudly is far different from breaking things, refusing to let others pass, etc

Honest to God there is a difference

[oldsoftie]

21. They were allowed to speak their mind early on. Then they constantly escalated.

This is another example of why appeasement doesnt work.

[Hekate]

16. Link worked for me. Will read in full later, but looks like good observations. Thanks.

[oldsoftie]

19. Because that group were professional protestors. They're anarchists.

They dint give a shit about Gaza they're just there to cause trouble. It happens at MOST big protests. They start out "normal" and all of a sudden things take a turn. Thats when you know THESE people have shown up.
We need to find out who is funding them (it takes MONEY to fly around the country "protesting&quot & charge them with racketeering. And start putting these people in jail for a lot longer than 24hrs

[live love laugh]

28. Mega Ditto!

[maxsolomon]

46. I see what you did there.

Well done.

[oldsoftie]

50. Where's the lie?

[wnylib]

56. Look up USCPR online for who is backing them and providing

talking points, or more accurately, slogan points. I will not link them here because I don't think the link belongs on DU. If you do look them up, be sure to check out the lower left hand side of their home screen where they list their target groups and why those targets should join them.

USCPR stands for United States Campaign for Palestinian Rights. It is part of the BDS National Committee, a coalition of member groups that promote BDS worldwide. One of the National Committee's members is the Palestinian National and Islamic Forces. That group has members that have been designated as terrorist groups.

So there are many layers of coalition groups behind the protests. The USCPR is the one with the outreach face for recruiting protesters.

[oldsoftie]

60. Thanks! I'd never heard of them. I've been used to seeing "Answer Coalition" in the past.

All the signs they carry would have that at the bottom

[wnylib]

61. I've been looking up info on USCPR for over a week now.

They are huge, with numerous affiliates. They have a strong presence on college campuses. On the surface they appear to be a peaceful group just pushing for civil rights for Palestinians. But they have deep roots and connections to Middle East groups that would love to see "from the river to the sea" carried out.

[obamanut2012]

23. Peggy Noonan is the author -- wow

[Orrex]

30. "Friends, please come say hello."

ie., “What is happening, fellow kids?”

I don’t have enough info to comment on the protests at large, but what a silly article.

[TeamProg]

31. Citing from Peggy Noonan and the WSJ at the same should be an obvious no-no, IMHO. She's a friggin' right-winger!

Boooooo !

[Iris]

34. There's a button for that

[SunSeeker]

36. Marching is too hard. Sitting in a tent on your phone is much easier. nt

[OrangeJoe]

42. Studying

My daughter at USC and niece at Columbia, neither of whom was involved in the protests, both gave the same general descriptions of the protests at their school. They reported that the protests were peaceful before the cops showed up, that most students they observed were studying for finals as they sat around (remember these kids are all brainiac nerds who have been getting good grades throughout their academica careers which is why they attend these universities), and that most of the acts of violence and intimidation they personally witnessed were from off campus supporters of Israel.

[SunSeeker]

49. The takeover of Hamilton Hall was not done by "off campus supporters of Israel"

It was led by off campus political extremists that these "brainiacs" let take control of their protest. I assume your daughter, since she was not involved, did not see all that.

[OrangeJoe]

63. Wrong school

My daughter is at USC grad school, niece is at Columbia. My niece reports that she saw off campus counter protestors throwing things and shouting racist things at the students demonstrating. The press coverage of it has opened her eyes to the bias in our system. As a finance major and an athlete she never really paid too much attention to politics. She's learned a valuable lesson this past week.

[walkingman]

39. I like protest in all of it's forms. They represent such a small segment of our population

and yet get a lot of attention - that is their intent.

What keeps me awake at night is the real power structure in America, the oligarchs and corporate funded lobbyists.

Ya gotta love idealism!!

[Bonx]

57. How about this one at Penn?

Sound like Proud Boys:

Link to tweet

/video/1

[intheflow]

41. The WSJ and Peggy Noonan?

This is conservative claptrap, even if it makes a few good points. I mean, even broken clocks are right twice a day. I still don't consult one when I need the time.

[Redleg]

54. "seem to" carries a lot of weight in this article

The person couldn't get anyone to talk to them so they played amateur psychologist to make assumptions about the protesters' motives and "seems to" assume that they are monolithic in their viewpoints.

[wyldwolf]

65. Today's anti-war left share little in common with their 60s counterparts...

... except, of course, being useful idiots in getting the next Republican president elected.

The late William Rivers Pitt wrote an outstanding piece on DU over a decade ago in which he said progressives blew their chance to be the leaders of the Democratic party at the '68 convention in Chicago. After months of calling Hubert Humphrey a warmonger (equivalent to Genocide Joe) and riots in Chicago, a national TV audience looked at them and said, 'No thanks.' Richard Nixon won the following November.

At least, though, the 1960s war protesters gave interviews. At least you understood the goals (if not their methods.) Today, we have dumbasses who wear teddy bear masks to conceal their identities while "protesting" and chanting a HAMAS slogan. And, again, this is how Democrats will be painted.

President-elect Trump. It's more likely than we think right now.