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Nevilledog

(52,146 posts)
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 03:12 PM Jun 12

Trump super fans are impossible to argue with because they don't actually believe in logic

https://plus.flux.community/p/trump-supporters-are-almost-impossible


Ever since Donald Trump emerged on the American political scene, many of his critics have sought tirelessly to raise many different arguments about his policies, rhetoric, and criminal actions to help his supporters see just what their unrequited loyalty is enabling. Occasionally, these efforts have yielded fruit, but overwhelmingly, they are unsuccessful.

Last September, the head of an anti-Trump Republican political action committee called Win It Back, formalized the despair of many critics in a memorandum summarizing what his group had learned after testing more than 40 different television ads on 12 in-person focus groups.

“All attempts to undermine his conservative credentials on specific issues were ineffective,” David McIntosh wrote.

“Every traditional postproduction ad attacking President Trump either backfired or produced no impact on his ballot support and favorability,” McIntosh continued. “This includes ads that primarily feature video of him saying liberal or stupid comments from his own mouth.”

Whether acting in a personal or professional capacity, many Trump critics have seen similar results. Trying to use logical persuasion with your Trump-worshiping friend or relative is not likely to work, not necessarily because they are stupid, but because they have completely different moral and epistemic viewpoints than you or almost anyone else—they genuinely believe that facts do not derive from science, reason, or history.

*snip*
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Trump super fans are impossible to argue with because they don't actually believe in logic (Original Post) Nevilledog Jun 12 OP
It's that alternative logic. Arne Jun 12 #1
Wow! How long til Kool-Aid drinkin' time? Girard442 Jun 12 #2
The lack of a shared reality is what puts democracy in jeopardy. Fiendish Thingy Jun 12 #3
They have formed their opinion. Don't bother trying to confuse them with facts...nt Wounded Bear Jun 12 #4
Truth, logic, facts are no longer important. Irish_Dem Jun 12 #5
If MAGAts could be reasoned with, they wouldn't be MAGAts. lastlib Jun 12 #6
I Have Not Actually Had the Experience of Having a Trump Supporter The Roux Comes First Jun 12 #7
no logic equals stupid lindysalsagal Jun 12 #8
I'm visiting my mother in law in Arizona and my husbands brother in laws and other sister are not able to accept facts kimbutgar Jun 12 #9
Trump's Stupor fans. Old Crank Jun 12 #10
They make their own reality budkin Jun 12 #11
... and Jonathan Swift knew why, long ago William Seger Jun 12 #12
This is the power of a cult built by propaganda Hermit-The-Prog Jun 12 #13
Few people in this country, outside of academia, know how to apply classical logic and reasoning dobleremolque Jun 12 #14
They are ignorant senseandsensibility Jun 12 #15
You argue with them, they get defensive, double down and don't hear a word you say Warpy Jun 12 #16
"not necessarily because they are stupid" JoseBalow Jun 12 #17
They might possibly be the ruination of us all. chouchou Jun 12 #18
There can be hidden logic Shermann Jun 12 #19
"Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice." --Dietrich Bonhoeffer HUAJIAO Jun 12 #20

Arne

(2,900 posts)
1. It's that alternative logic.
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 03:20 PM
Jun 12

You know when logic isn't logical.
A nand could be a nor and they don't care.

Fiendish Thingy

(16,658 posts)
3. The lack of a shared reality is what puts democracy in jeopardy.
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 03:22 PM
Jun 12

As Voltaire said “those who believe absurdities can be made to commit atrocities “.

Irish_Dem

(53,117 posts)
5. Truth, logic, facts are no longer important.
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 03:32 PM
Jun 12

The GOP values feelings, beliefs, irrationality, dogma.

Anything which furthers their goals of power, control and wealth.

lastlib

(23,800 posts)
6. If MAGAts could be reasoned with, they wouldn't be MAGAts.
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 03:51 PM
Jun 12

I've been saying that for eight years. I'm not sure dimensional lumber applied to the cranium would alter ther thinking. (But I'd like to try it......)

The Roux Comes First

(1,352 posts)
7. I Have Not Actually Had the Experience of Having a Trump Supporter
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 04:00 PM
Jun 12

Actually listen or pay attention to any offering even vaguely differing from their received wisdom, so this almost constitutes "news" for me.

kimbutgar

(21,946 posts)
9. I'm visiting my mother in law in Arizona and my husbands brother in laws and other sister are not able to accept facts
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 05:18 PM
Jun 12

because they think everything we say is a lie! I almost got into it with my sister in law who thinks global warning is a hoax and the higher temperatures are normal and are a result of the earth changing its rotation. She said she doesn’t like the convicted felon or Biden because he’s too old. Then when my right wing brother had had enough of us liberals from SF she hugged him and said she loved the convicted felon and don’t worry he save our country from Biden when the convicted felon takes he White House again, She had been drinking all day and didn’t realize we overheard her. Part of me feels sorry for her though. Her only education was high school and she got pregnant out of wedlock and her husband abandoned her after 18 years. She raised the kids herself and now those same kids are magas who worship their maga loving father.

I said to her lets just agree to disagree and move on and not discuss politics or science.

William Seger

(10,847 posts)
12. ... and Jonathan Swift knew why, long ago
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 05:29 PM
Jun 12

"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."

Hermit-The-Prog

(35,149 posts)
13. This is the power of a cult built by propaganda
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 05:41 PM
Jun 12

They have been trained (programmed) to believe that the only source of truth is the propaganda network which elevated traitortrump to deity status.

Logic did not create the cult.

dobleremolque

(633 posts)
14. Few people in this country, outside of academia, know how to apply classical logic and reasoning
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 05:47 PM
Jun 12

to determine the truth or accuracy of a proposition. Logic and reasoning function under rules that when applied appropriately can lead to a conclusion that you may not like but ultimately is the correct answer or the right course of action.

Instead most people allow an initial emotional or gut reaction to decide where they stand. "I like it!" "I don't like it." Then, they start casting about for ways to support the emotional decision they made.

But nowadays, T**mp cultists avoid even that much work. Once you're in the cult, it's "just tell me what I believe."

senseandsensibility

(18,567 posts)
15. They are ignorant
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 05:47 PM
Jun 12

You can't ignore that fact. And most of the time they have no critical thinking skills whatsover. Very easy to manipulate, but I don't feel sorry for them at all.

Warpy

(112,232 posts)
16. You argue with them, they get defensive, double down and don't hear a word you say
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 05:49 PM
Jun 12

If I have time and I'm in a decent mood, they'll say something dumb and I'll ask them who told them a thing like that. It takes the burden off them and wrong foots them and you can discuss what dumb thing they said without making them defensive.

I I'm in a good mood but have no time, I'll just Emily Post them and change the subject until I can get away. It usually works.

If I'm in a lousy mood, I'll look at them incredulously and say in my stage voice, "You BOUGHT that? HAHAHAHAHA!" and walk away laughing and twiddling an index finger next to my temple. If I'm in a lousy mood, I just want to get away so I can either eat something or take a pain pill, depending on what is causing the lousy mood.

JoseBalow

(3,587 posts)
17. "not necessarily because they are stupid"
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 06:01 PM
Jun 12

Boy, that word "necessarily" is carrying a lot of weight there!

drumpf cultists are the dumbest morons on the planet

chouchou

(935 posts)
18. They might possibly be the ruination of us all.
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 06:02 PM
Jun 12

Last edited Wed Jun 12, 2024, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I believe that Trump will certainly fail to win the presidency but, I'm afraid that sometime in the future, those illogical idiots will
vote for someone just-like-them. Not a happy thought.

Shermann

(7,790 posts)
19. There can be hidden logic
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 06:12 PM
Jun 12

Many Trump supporters are single-issue voters, and their secret battle plan is to die on that one hill defending it. They understand the single issue well and can articulate their position, however there are so many other relevant issues in America. You can't always deflect away from them. So, for the other issues they are typically much less informed and rely on talking points instead of ceding any ground around that precious hill.

HUAJIAO

(2,473 posts)
20. "Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice." --Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Wed Jun 12, 2024, 06:13 PM
Jun 12

“Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.”
― Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Letters and Papers from Prison

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