General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBob Cesca: I've covered politics and worked in the news media for 35 years. The last 3 weeks have been the most
self-destructive, the most damaging to democracy, the most unethical three weeks for the political media I've ever observed. There are exceptions but it's nearly universal.
Link to tweet
misanthrope
(7,909 posts)and seems to get worse with every cycle.
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)I mean ... for years DUers have discussed and lamented the consolidation of media to just five or six Wall Street corporations.
How is it possible to be shocked?
ProfessorPlum
(11,327 posts)to me, at least.
peggysue2
(11,257 posts)Never saw the openly dismissive attitude towards supporting small 'd' democracy coming or anticipate the comment by Joe Kahn, editor at the NYTs, who claimed democracy was a partisan issue.
That comment shocked and disgusted me.
However, it certainly explained a lot of what we've been reading and witnessing.
HUAJIAO
(2,519 posts)What the fuck is that??
How did I miss that??
media is shit on a stick...
peggysue2
(11,257 posts)My reaction exactly, HUAJIAO.
Celerity
(46,154 posts)Celerity
(46,154 posts)https://presswatchers.org/2024/05/new-york-times-editor-joe-kahn-says-defending-democracy-is-a-partisan-act-and-he-wont-do-it/
Joe Kahn, right, and Dean Baquet, in happier times. (NYT photo)
Joe Kahn, after two years in charge of the New York Times newsroom, has learned nothing. He had an extraordinary opportunity, upon taking over from Dean Baquet, to right the ship: to recognize that the Times was not warning sufficiently of the threat to democracy presented by a second Trump presidency. But to Kahn, democracy is a partisan issue and hes not taking sides. He made that clear in an interview with obsequious former employee Ben Smith, now the editor of Semafor. Kahn accused those of us asking the Times to do better of wanting it to be a house organ of the Democratic party:
But critics like me arent asking the Times to abandon its independence. Were asking the Times to recognize that it isnt living up to its own standards of truth-telling and independence when it obfuscates the stakes of the 2024 election, covers up for Trumps derangement, and goes out of its way to make Biden look weak. Kahns position is, not coincidentally, identical to that of his boss, publisher A.G. Sulzberger, who I recently wrote about in my post, Why is New York Times campaign coverage so bad? Because thats what the publisher wants. And to the extent that Kahn has changed anything in the Times newsroom since Baquet left, its to double down on a form of objectivity that favors the comfortable-white-male perspective and considers anything else little more than hysteria.
Throwing Baquet under the bus, Kahn called the summer of the Black Lives Matter protests an extreme moment during which the Times lost its way. I think weve learned from it. I think we found our footing after that, he said. I translate that to mean that the old guard has reasserted total control over the rabble. But how, exactly, the Times lost its footing, he doesnt explain. Id love to see him point to a few articles that he considers went too far. Best I can tell, his real complaint is that the Times under Baquet hired too many young and diverse people who in his view dont understand the rules. I think theres a larger number of people who we might at some point have hired, but weve asked the kind of questions or looked at the sort of work that they do, and wondered whether theyd be a good fit for us, Kahn said, making it clear he wont make that mistake again. His example was hyperbolic and not even vaguely credible:
Id be willing to bet a large sum that no job candidate at the Times has ever said any such thing.
On Democracy
Heres what he said:
(Smith had asked Kahn to respond to Pfeiffer, a former Obama official, who recently complained that the editors at the Times do not see their job as saving democracy or stopping an authoritarian from taking power.) That one paragraph, posted on social media by NYU professor Jay Rosen, elicited a storm of critiques. Cartoonist Ruben Bolling was among those upset by Kahns dismissal of democracy as a key issue.
snip
Dave says
(4,835 posts)Joe Kahn should be fired. What a disgusting statement coming from the leader of the venerable New York Times.
soldierant
(7,642 posts)StClone
(11,848 posts)The media is so scared of doing their jobs and looking like suck-ups for reporting unequivocal universal truths like Trump is a toxic, narcissist, felon, sexual assaulter, and cheating liar. Ranked worst President of all time and a would-be fascist dictator...that's the story Jack!
CrispyQ
(37,594 posts)Trump brings in viewers. People who love him want to see him & people who hate him want to know what the fuck he's up to now. I couldn't believe when I read some of Howard Stern's most ardent followers are people who loathe him. Apparently they tune in to see what outrageous thing he'll say next.
On that note, some DUer said Howard did an excellent interview with President Biden, so I think I'll search it out today & compare Howard's interview to Lester Holt's.
NoSheep
(8,259 posts)Joe Kahn-traitor among traitors.
bdamomma
(65,128 posts)the state, Domestic terrorists for sure.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,971 posts)a New York Times subscription didn't cancel it.
Mary Mac
(337 posts)Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,971 posts)but this is by far the most egregious.
PatSeg
(49,535 posts)Though I think it was probably unexpected to reasonable people in Germany and Italy during the 1930s. Somehow, Americans thought we were above all that.
peggysue2
(11,257 posts)As Americans we thought we were immune.
Think again.
PatSeg
(49,535 posts)compared to Europe. Kind of the cocky, know-it-all teenagers.
bdamomma
(65,128 posts)for granted. Our parents generation had to sacrifice a lot to keep this nation free. We must keep our Democracy beating for our children, grandchildren, and their children.
We are much better than this.
Dave says
(4,835 posts)Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,971 posts)I get the TrumpCult not caring because, well, they're his cult. But the rest of the citizenry ought to be aware of what he's planning to do.
He has said it himself. He will ignore the US Constitution, he will politicize the DOJ to manufacture crimes by his opponents (or, as he calls them, enemies) and prosecute them in a politicized judicial system purged of impartial judges.
Yet, but we still have "undecided" voters???!!!
PatSeg
(49,535 posts)I understand that there are disinterested Americans who don't really follow politics all that much. What I don't understand is why they vote.
I also understand that there are people who don't care for Biden (I know a few), but with Trump as an alternative, why are they undecided.
Demsrule86
(70,658 posts)Great post. Rec
Also, how about a boycott of a complicit media...
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19193414
Dave says
(4,835 posts)We live in an oligarchy feeding riches to the already rich. As I said, Im disgusted. And angry.
bdamomma
(65,128 posts)Angry = more votes. Remember this is a small slither of people (cultists) who are the minority.
We are the majority.
live love laugh
(14,017 posts)across the board is what is different.
misanthrope
(7,909 posts)The first was the idea of news as a loss leader for the broadcast networks. As part of the deal for broadcast licensing, they produced news as something that was more public service that profit maker. It began to shift after "60 Minutes" showed money could be made from news and the corporate philosophy changed.
Then came the death of the Fairness Doctrine.
msfiddlestix
(7,599 posts)it off. Stop being the commodity for these media vultures profiting to the tune of Billions of dollars creating ginned up crises and chaos at the expense of our democracy AND stability of society.
It's a drug people are addicted to and can't seem to go cold turkey.
Skittles
(157,006 posts)a seemingly coordinated pile-on against one candidate while the other guy - a truly vile, despicable dictator-wannabe who ALREADY shows up on ALL the worst-presidents-of-all-time lists gets a free pass
...
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)There are few more decent and honorable men than Kerry.
They called him a traitor. They ridiculed his combat medals, his Silver Star, Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts.
RNC attendees wore purple heart band-aids with "it's just a scratch" meme the Swiftboat liars fabricated.
It was very much the same.
And the same media acolytes.
I am not shocked. And I hate to say it.
Dave Bowman
(3,092 posts)Claustrum
(4,994 posts)They have these cult like behavior long before TFG. I will never want to dress up like Obama or Biden to "show" my support. That doesn't mean I support Obama or Biden any less than they do with TFG. It's just that I don't do such a cultish thing.
bdamomma
(65,128 posts)STUPID.
But they have always been like this, remember the Tea Party? Now they are MAGATS!! People with a freaking chip on their shoulders.
Demsrule86
(70,658 posts)blue neen
(12,393 posts)It was disgusting and infuriating. John Kerry deserved much, much better.
I remember a picture from the RNC that year. It was an older woman with a purple band aid on her face, and you could tell that she was soooooooooo very pleased with herself.
Again, the disrespect shown for John Kerry was awful.
Marcus IM
(3,001 posts)That's why I say I am not shocked at the same players doing the same thing again.
Will Dems ever learn the plays in the RW playbook?
They use the same plays over and over and over - and people are still shocked??
That is truly shocking. Child-like. Like Charlie Brown and Lucy.
displacedvermoter
(2,366 posts)I will never forget the shameful treatment he received. Ann Coulter said he blew himself up with a grenade because he was drunk. Voters of Georgia responded to this sliming of a mutilated veteran by voting him out of office.
None of this vileness is new, just it is now constant and the media no longer even pretends to be shocked by it.
Tweedy
(867 posts)Some even called him a traitor. Time proved him right. Nobody apologized.
This time is different. Americans want to be happy again. Democrats can give us that
We have an excellent story to tell! The gop has a pack of lies and hate to sell.
GigiLeigh
(100 posts)Was started by TFG's current campaign manager Chris Lacivita.
Cosmocat
(14,849 posts)It's more craven and overt this time, but this has been the same shit every D faces. BHO and a stupid flagpin, the reverend what's his name ... Clinton hot piled on for all kinds of stupidity.
FloridaBlues
(4,304 posts)Dave says
(4,835 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,784 posts)emulatorloo
(45,467 posts)Texin
(2,626 posts)Tweedy
(867 posts)We need to get business convinced to rid themselves of cool algorithms and return to old school advertisement placement for the good of us all, businesses too. The public and the media needs advertisements next to legit news. We dont need tons of funds flowing to sites promoting hate, division and disinformation !!
The only thing anybody is gaining from all of this data collection is new and better ways to manipulate free people into running around like chicken littles and elevate absurdities like brexit and trump. The tech bros might dislike this truth; that dislike doesnt change the truth, though.
sheshe2
(86,073 posts)bdamomma
(65,128 posts)has to be called out on this..............they are supposed to be giving fair analysis of news to the electorate!!! not bashing us or our democracy. What the hell???? They are even basing President Biden. Hell, even the Democrats are!!! What is going on???? Big pay outs????? Sweet deals???? I hope they choke on that money.
Let their ratings keep on falling. But I can't seem to shake the feeling that this is all orchestrated by that visit from Orban, this is what dictators do to news organizations, force feeding the electorate propaganda resulting in people into tuning out the news. It's really sickening.
DENVERPOPS
(9,606 posts)95+% of ALL media in the U.S. is owned/operated by Uber rich or right wing Corporations.....
misanthrope
(7,909 posts)It always made me roll my eyes or laugh. It's not so funny anymore.
calimary
(83,446 posts)ProfessorGAC
(68,415 posts)Not owned by. Let's direct our ire at the appropriate target.
The mass media ownership is highly diverse with few individuals owning even 5% of one company or another.
Investment funds, which include 401k & IRA plans, hold 6 or 7 of the top 10 share concentrations in nearly all these companies (Faux being an obvious example of the opposite.)
There is just not enough holdings by individuals, no matter how preposterously wealthy, to set their agenda.
The issue seems to be the mindset of those who rise to those high executive levels, & their motivations for getting to those positions in the first place.
PortTack
(33,980 posts)Yes, it does hurt their advert dollars.
Think. Again.
(15,613 posts)a kennedy
(31,401 posts)love ya DU.
B.See
(2,825 posts)Skipped between the big 3 and PBS to catch snippets of news NOT having to do with calls for Biden to drop out or Trump or the RNC.
Caught plenty of HGTV, TLC and random game shows though.
Stuck to select articles from news aggregators. Pick what u wanna read, skip the rest.
I haven't watched the news since his ear patch incident!! He's playing that up isn't he??? POS, he is.
It was an about face from the Media. Are Joy and Lawrence in our corner still??
Is there any talk about Project 2025???? At least that was being reported, before the "attempt".
Hermit-The-Prog
(36,145 posts)And then, break up these conglomerates. All those mergers should not have been rubber-stamped.
Every Republican administration turns agencies like the EPA, FCC, FTC on their heads so they work for corporations instead of working to regulate corporations for us.
True Blue American
(18,097 posts)Only a few on MSNBC are fit to watch now. The hosts havefallen in line. They actually pulled Scarborough off the air. He knows Trump well and tells the truth about him. A little late because he and Mika pushed for him until he made fun of her facelift and threatened to expose their affair.
Warpy
(112,779 posts)The rich men who control the six media companies are terrified their tax cuts will end.
They really hate supporting the country that made them so rich.
DENVERPOPS
(9,606 posts)can think about is Trump/Republicans will extend the Tax Breaks, and ALSO install even more tax cuts for the rich.
Their wet dreams are to return to the "Gilded Age" and bring back the days of the "Robber Barons".....
And to be candid, it is not just the Republican Uber Rich Oligarchs, there are Democrat Uber Rich Oligarchs in the mix....
wryter2000
(47,110 posts)Can he/they add examples, please, so we can point out particular offenders?
Baitball Blogger
(47,482 posts)Where did these people get educated? They could have used an ethics class or two.
Truth is, America's institutions have been in a spiraling downfall for some time. So many "one-off's have occurred that we're just not buying it anymore. These things are not coincidental.
ShazamIam
(2,644 posts)If you didn't see it or have forgotten here is his statement.
"We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."
bdamomma
(65,128 posts)STFU.
All this division and hate gets me sick, and how many of them are Putin's puppets?
chia
(2,321 posts)hay rick
(8,049 posts)The media has passed a tipping point. Preserving corporate privileges is now more important than protecting a functioning democracy. I am reviewing my subscriptions with an eye toward cancellations and finding new alternatives.
Tansy_Gold
(18,025 posts)The ones that are worth keeping will prove themselves over the next 90 days.
bdamomma
(65,128 posts)news sources out there, Free speech TV, Pro Publica, The Atlantic.
Have to give a donation to Free Speech.org.
valleyrogue
(720 posts)now the media are literally making shit up trying to drive him out. The stories are fictitious but the characters are real. And then we have certain backstabbers contacting donors because, well, because of the debate. At least so they claim.
There is no way this hot mess called Donald Trump can possibly prevail unless there is widespread fraud everywhere. I just don't see it. His support is far less than it was four years ago, eight years ago. That is because he is a known quantity, and most people out there don't like what they see and hear. They are sick of the lies, they are sick of the insanity. Vance does nothing to advance the ticket's chances.
I think all of the polls and stories are fabricated in order to create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
RobinA
(10,063 posts)The media reports what's happening. What about Trump is a secret? If Nancy Pelosi and Obama tell Biden he should step down should the media ignore that? I don't blame the messenger. I think we are in uncharted water here, and Pelosi, the NYT, Obama, other media, Biden, Shiff et al. don't have any better idea how to handle it than any other Joe. Just because we don't get the Trump thing doesn't no one out there does.
barbtries
(29,421 posts)it's truly sickening. we're being overwhelmed by sickness.
mzmolly
(51,414 posts)to shit on democracy?
BradBo
(596 posts)Magoo48
(4,990 posts)But, Im sure you know this.
gixxerlee
(209 posts)We are only failing ourselves by listening to the republicans narrative. Stand by Joe!
Randomthought
(877 posts)It's always about the money. I'm 74 years old and fucking tired of this. If TFG. Is elected we are out of here. I hope Spain or Portugal will take us.
Blue Owl
(53,750 posts)Cha
(302,727 posts)Demsrule86
(70,658 posts)It starts the 21st of July tomorrow...they tried to destroy our chances and still whining about it. I am so disappointed in MSNBC. There is a post about it. I am going to kick it.
Irish_Dem
(55,582 posts)US politics has often been a bar room brawl.
emulatorloo
(45,467 posts)but this is magnitudes worse than anything Ive seen from the political media.
FWIW Cesca is 53, hes no kid.
Irish_Dem
(55,582 posts)The first one I remember is the murder of JFK.
Then Vietnam Nam. LBJ stepping down.
Assassination of prominent liberals.
1968 convention.
Segregation. Civil rights. Womens rights.
McGovern vs RFK.
The relentless harassment of the Clintons.
The SC theft of Gores victory.
I am probably forgetting some.
But now yes we face unprecedented existential crises right now. The loss of our democracy and the US may be taken over by a ruthless group of sociopaths.
And we are looking at an internal bruising political brawl between a sitting president and party leaders.
We have gotten through all the other crises, we will get through this one too.
emulatorloo
(45,467 posts)Think. Again.
(15,613 posts)Demsrule86
(70,658 posts)We can do this. Also, keep it kicked. Anyone know if we can post it like the money link so even lurkers see it?
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19193414
Demsrule86
(70,658 posts)Keep it up there...