We need to start strategizing this. HOW DO WE DEFANG/DECLAW/DEFUND the NRA????

[calimary]

I think we have to go straight to the source. Like doctors do with new treatments against a tumor. STARVE IT OF BLOOD FLOW. So it can't grow, and it loses power and influence, and then withers and dies.

I'm thinking of the way the bad guys did to ACORN. What they've done, over the years, to weaken and dissolve the power of unions.
How they've strangled and starved the organized labor movement.
How they've completely debased and poisoned the very word "liberal."

WE NEED TO START THE CONVERSATION. And maybe we need to do it HERE.

Is there some forum we can start? I see references to the term "gungeon" but I'm not sure what that means. I don't know how to go about forums-setting-up. But I think it's important to have one place here or elsewhere, where people can go to think this out, come up with ideas, test or debate those ideas, and refine actual, workable, realistic strategies to start tarnishing and weakening the NRA.

I'm sure David thought Goliath was pretty invincible. And look what happened there!

We have to be ruthless. While everybody's mourning and some people don't want to talk about it (yet, if ever) and others pay lip service til the service is over and then they forget and the whole effort just fizzles away. I think THIS is a perfect time, while the iron is hot, to bring up all the difficult ideas and questions that nobody wants to deal with while they're mourning. Well, those of us who are NOT mourning a specific loved one or individual - MAYBE IT FALLS ON US - to start doing something!!!!!!

And the Second Amendment has to be challenged, modified, brought into the real world.

Any thoughts?
What can we do, what kinds of strategies can we come up with, what laws or regulations can we push, what methods could we use to attack the NRA and BEAT THEM?

We can't just wring our hands and say a prayer and talk about how awful it is. DAMMIT, we have to DO something. Enough is ENOUGH!!!!

[Pacafishmate]

1. It's hard to do because the NRA is funded by millions of individual gun owners.

They have a vested interest in maintaining their firearms rights and they have the right to free speech. So good luck subverting the free speech of millions of law abiding citizens.

[bettyellen]

12. they are lobbyists funded more by gun manufacturers than individuals. and most gun owners are okay

with a great deal more regulation than the NRA finds tolerable.

[Lint Head]

15. The NRA does not protect the 2nd Amendment or the right of free speech.

They are also funded by gun manufacturers. The money wasted on an organization that promotes a tool of death could be put to better use. Congress has a right to make war but that right is not promoted by a lobbying group supported by private citizens. Arms manufacturers profiting off of death by lobbying for and promoting tools of death should be outlawed just as corporations lobby and profit off of health care. They are both a matter of life and death. The NRA does not even understand the succinct reason the 2nd Amendment exists.

[99Forever]

19. So what? It's hard.

No kidding? If you don't have the spine for it, then shut up and watch how it's done. We don't need whiners. Run along and leave the murderous bastards to those of us that won't kneel to their crap anymore.

[kelliekat44]

20. Elect people at all state, local, and Federal level who don't give a shit about the NRA.

It will take some work but people will have to study hard the political scene. Unions should get behind the movement for better gun control but many are also members of the NRA. Many right-to-workers who are freeloaders would rather pay dues to the NRA than to the union that supports them in the workplace. This country is screwed from the bottom up.

[JimDandy]

36. He's a flaming pizza. n/t

[doc03]

2. I don't know, they are just a very small

minority of gun owners. Do you know how many members they claim to have?

[oldhippie]

7. Only about 4 million members ......

... likely to increase after this incident, believe it or not.

[Lint Head]

16. That means aprox. 296,000,000 are not members. That inculdes children.

[doc03]

18. You are right but the previous poster is probably right too

the NRA will use this tragedy to recruit members and raise money.

[Lint Head]

25. Yep. Death and greed go hand in hand.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. Shame the members...

They need to understand that their membership in an organization that actively works against public safety is shameful.

[calimary]

32. Good idea. And let's call this what it is. DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

A little accountability. There should be a price to pay for being part of an organization that defends, protects, and furthers the agendas of domestic terrorists. This shooter today was every bit as much of a terrorist as any al Qaeda nutcase. Look at the way he destroyed lives and destabilized a whole community - and the ripple effect from it that threw this whole country into agony and horror.

[Panasonic]

4. By revoking their IRS status and declare them nothing more than a organized terrorist group.

Then have the FBI seize the HQ and arrest the top management of the NRA lobby and the organization itself.

[rDigital]

9. Let's order the ATF to raid NRA Headquarters and every other pro gun org. Indefinite detention NDAA

[arthritisR_US]

11. That would only serve to set the militia types

up in arms. You would then see all your home grown terrorists come out of the wood work

[Panasonic]

27. Easier for the FBI to arrest them then.

Most of the militias are illegal.

Most of what they stockpile are also illegal.

[Historic NY]

5. Well disengaging them from any licensing or other certifications states use

would be a start. They engrained themselves to being part of the process.

[Lint Head]

6. The laws that are in place could be enforced and better ones passed but getting rid of the NRA

would trump them all. Allowing a lobby to promote tools of death is despicable. Congress has the Constitutional right to declare war but promoting it is despicable.

[TheProgressive]

8. I believe it is more of a cultural problem...

The NRA is just the oozing puss of an infected national/societal problem.

I don't have all the answers but I do know that if people are learning, people are working, people are
enjoying life, then...then these types of human devastation is minimized...

[Tigress DEM]

10. I think this is exactly the WRONG strategy. I think we need to get the NRA to push for sane laws.

I think there are more rational gun owners that hunt and fish and would never shoot children that could change the way the NRA behaves from within.

The harder we push and fight the crazier it all becomes. The tighter they hold onto their guns, the more reasons to shoot crazy liberals on sight.

ENOUGH.

WAGE PEACE, don't start another war that has no potential to really change the world other than to increase the divisiveness and give the NRA reason to play victim.

Call on them to police their own and stop this insanity. Give them an honorable part in this awful mess.

The NRA is probably the ONLY group that people who would use guns will listen to anyway, so get them to change their tune. Make them OWN this mess and clean it up.

[arthritisR_US]

13. Yes, but the most radical talk comes from their

leadership at the top

[Tigress DEM]

37. True and I think people could use that to show how "Out of TOUCH" the NRA leadership IS.

The majority of people who own guns, even the die hard 2nd amendment folks, are against shooting children.

So maybe lots of progressives going to local NRA clubs and just asking the rank and file to help tone down the rhetoric so that common sense regulation can happen to protect the kids. That responsible gun owners aren't the problem, but their organization COULD help make it harder for NON law abiding citizens to get guns from quality organizations.

[cleanhippie]

14. We already have sane laws. How about we push for strict enforcement of those, as well as...

better mental health services?

I see that as a more effective solution.

[Tigress DEM]

38. Don't see a conflict with better enforcement/mental health and pushing the NRA to "Man up & deal"

See, I'm just saying that the conversation with the NRA and gun owners, needs to start taking the NRA to task about defending their own reputation and distancing themselves from this outrageous behavior.

WE still do OUR part, but when we talk to the NRA or about them, we just begin to make the dialog about "WHAT can the NRA do to help the situation instead of making it worse?"

They are a powerful voice and I think we can ask them to put it to use in defaming people who go against the basic principals of responsible gun ownership of finding at least that much common ground to stand on together.

[calimary]

21. I have found that large organizations, especially well-funded and influential ones

will only do the right thing IF THEY'RE FORCED TO. It could be propaganda-driven - like Mothers Against Drunk Drivers worked to make it uncool to drink and drive. I think we have to take it directly to them. Put them on defense. Make them look bad.

What about making it SOOOOO costly to do business that they shut down? A hundred lawsuits a week? Letter-writing campaigns? Sit-ins at congressional offices? I realize most of this stuff doesn't work well - we sure tried to shut down the Iraq war during the dubya years - and that didn't do much. BUT IF WE COULD GENERATE ENOUGH ACTION THAT WE REACH A CRITICAL MASS...

Ideas! We need 'em!

And the problem with the NRA - there is massacre after massacre and NOTHING has happened, and NOTHING significant has been done, and the blather and propaganda go on. Outfits like the NRA are COUNTING on that sense of hopelessness and a David who's too depressed and demoralized to pick up that slingshot against Goliath. They're COUNTING on us getting mad for a few days and then rolling over and going back to sleep, or worrying about how to get home in time to see the Honey Boo Boo show or "Dancing with the Stars" or some such mindless dreck.

HOW DO WE GET THE BALL ROLLING, THE DRUM BEATING, THE PEOPLE RISING UP? Let's figure out what will stick, what will make the bad guys in this case look SO DAMN AWFUL that even they can't stomach supporting the NRA anymore. Sour the milk. Poison the well. HOW DO WE DO THAT, AND DO IT EFFECTIVELY?????

[Tigress DEM]

39. I still think the SUN wins over the WIND in these kind of situations.

Something like MADD, sounds good. With the thought that if ONLY responsible, law abiding citizens had guns, then these type of murders wouldn't happen. That if someone STOPS being a law abiding citizen or is somehow unable to maintain responsible gun ownership that their right to own a gun would be curtailed.

DUI enforcement prevents a lot of fatalities. What would be the equivilent with gun ownership?

What about GUN OWNERS having to purchase liability insurance? A car is a weapon only when it's mis-used, but everyone who drives a car HAS to buy insurance against accidents so that if someone is hurt, there is money to pay for it AND a way to evaluate who is behaving within the scope of the law.

How about ALL gun owners SHARE in the liability of those around them whose kid accidentally shoots themself and it gives LAW enforcement even MORE means to cull the self regulated and responsible gun owners from the criminals and the people set to go off the deep end.

KIDS who use parent's guns would need learners permits and lessons and have to be with a parent when using the gun. So some kid brings the gun to school, or gets caught with their parent's gun, in addition to what the kid is charged with, the parent's gun insurance goes up. Too many incidents and guns can be removed from the home in order to make them available to only the responsible adult paying the insurance. You bet that guns would be in locked safes and the kids would know not to touch them EVER if the scenario went along the lines that we use for car ownership and responsible driving behavior.

[calimary]

40. I think that's a HUMDINGER of a GREAT idea!!!!!

Make 'em have to buy insurance! WHY NOT???????? We have to do that in order to drive, for heaven's sake! You need to pass a freakin' TEST in order to get your license. Why do we not have more stringent requirements before any ol' fuckhead can get a gun?

Hey, if I were king, this would only be the start of it.

[Tigress DEM]

42. : )

[3c273a]

17. Mayor Bloomberg has a good idea

Introduce a bill that challenges legislators to choose: gun rights or tough on crime? It is worth the read. Good political tactic.

[link:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-26/how-to-break-nra-s-grip-on-politics-michael-r-bloomberg.html|

[calimary]

23. Strategy and tactics. We need them ALL! And Welcome to DU, 3c273a!

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:36 AM - Edit history (1)

Glad you're here. This calls for a MULTI-PRONGED APPROACH. Think of how many different ways the bad guys went after ACORN. Think of how many different ways the bad guys went after Susan Rice. Maybe we need to start thinking like the bad guys do, to beat their asses.

[calimary]

41. Welcome to DU, 3c273a!

Glad you're here! I think we have to push it straight into their faces. Confront them and put them on the spot. Force them to answer or run like the little armchair chickenshits they are - out the side door while the cameras are still rolling. Make 'em face the questions - WHO'S YER DADDY? Who's paying you? Who do you REALLY work for? The people, or the NRA? Who's offered you a lobbying job as soon as you leave Capitol Hill? Whose side are you on? The gun lobby or the bodies of our five-year-olds and six-year-olds?

We have to think of all kinds of sabotage techniques. Things that will make them look bad in public. Covering their refusal to meet with grieving gun-victims' families. Plastering the pablum they puke like fucking reagan did after John Lennon was shot and killed - the "gee, yes it's a terrible shame BUT Lord Knows we CAN'T give up our GUNS!!!!" Maybe if they're faced with uncomfortable situations that they weasel out of, we splatter that all over the internets and wherever else we can - to make them look bad and cold-hearted and cruel. Make 'em have to WEAR this shit around their frickin' necks. "Oh, so you cared more about the NRA than keeping guns away from nutcases who mow our children down in their schools." Put pointed questions to them that they duck and run from - while the cameras are rolling.

I would try to think up as many different ways of laminating this shit to them, making them look bad ANY WAY WE CAN, make them shrivel and cringe and run. Make what they sidle up to so loyally - a thing of horrible awfulness. A thing so hideous they can't afford to be seen or heard sidling up to it anymore.

The bad guys made the word "liberal" something that most people came to abhor, something negative, something to be shunned and shrunk away from with curled lip and facial features that said "ICK!!!" WE NEED TO DO THAT WITH THE NRA AND THE GUN MANUFACTURERS AND THE GUN LOBBY. Make THEM what people shrink away from and disavow and don't want to be seen with anymore. We have to demonize and vilify them AND what they still stupidly and stubbornly stand for. We have to make sure all of that, and all of them, are rubbed in sticky, clingy shit. They did it to us. I say we return the favor - in spades. It's all of our lives and our safety that are at stake - and that of our beloved children. I saw something on Lawrence O'Donnell's show tonight that said SINCE December 14th when the Newtown CT gun-massacre happened, more than 400 more shooting deaths have occurred. FOUR HUNDRED. In what? THREE WEEKS?????????? Feelin' any safer, America????

As much as I hate using the slaughter - the GUN-slaughter of those 20 sweet innocent children - for political ends, if it will help bring this madness closer to an end, OR AT LEAST SLOW IT DOWN, then maybe those lost little ones won't have died in vain. I have never heard ANY grieving parents after this kind of tragedy who did NOT say the least they could do from here - was to try to make sure no other parent suffered a loss like this, and cried like this, and sobbed like this, and stopped eating and sleeping peacefully like this, and tossed and turned and had nightmares like this, and even wanted briefly to die, themselves, like this, because the horror and sadness and agony were all just too much to bear. THIS. JUST. SIMPLY. HAS. TO. END.

[Shivering Jemmy]

22. Post an open registry of all NRA members on the web

Make them unwelcome in polite society.


Hound them.

[calimary]

24. Welcome to DU, Shivering Jemmy! I like this one!

I like shaming. And I like hounding. Glad you're here! This might be one interesting and potentially-effective approach. But we need MULTIPLE approaches - hitting them at the same time.

[Panasonic]

28. Anonymous can take care of that. The list will be made in public, courtesy of the hacker group.

#OpExposeNRA

(i just made up the hashtag on the spot)

[calimary]

31. THAT is a good idea, too. Attack ALL sides of this - FROM all sides!!!

And if Anonymous takes care of it, so much the better. Seems Anonymous might be the great leveler.

[calimary]

26. This is a good idea here, by DUer KoKo:

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10021981595#post30

Let's start labeling them DOMESTIC TERRORISTS. And what they're protecting and fighting to preserve is nothing more than DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

Cosmetics are disproportionately important in this country. So let's make them look BAD. This is one good approach. Let's have more - and put them all into place at the same time.

I sometimes feel as though we liberals and progressives and reasonable human beings are like a community living at the foot of a large levee. The bad guys who want to assert their dominance and remake our country according to their own putrid little worldview are like a bunch of kkkarl roves with drills, who go around drilling hundreds of holes in the levee - so many that we good guys are frantic, running around, trying to keep up with it, trying to get ahead of it, trying to plug all the holes, while dozens more are drilled all around us and we are overwhelmed.

WELL... imagine turning the tables. Letting the bad guys feel what it's like to scramble desperately, trying to block up all the holes that they continue to drill in the walls of the levee, seemingly every minute on the minute. How 'bout turning the tables. Make THEM scramble. Make THEM desperate. Make THEM struggle - against an UNSTOPPABLE oncoming tsunami.

[starroute]

29. The NRA didn't used to be this extreme

They got driven to the right in the 90s by truly extremist groups like Gun Owners of America. So it might be possible to drive them back again by picking away at their radical fringe. Make certain attitudes and opinions unacceptable in polite company, pressure the rest to disallow them, and keep pushing.

Just as the Chamber of Commerce is funded by millions of small businesses with no particular interest in or even knowledge of what is done in their name, so the NRA includes millions of individual gun owners with no interest in a radical gun rights agenda. This is a wedge issue, and we need to make the best possible use of it.

[Rhiannon12866]

34. +100!

You're absolutely right. I was an NRA member as a teenager. I shot competitively, was on two rifle teams, one at my school and another at the camp I attended, where I first learned to shoot. To shoot against other schools, we had to belong and the coach (who was the chemistry teacher) just signed us up. And I was proud of my NRA card. We certainly weren't militant, was a school sport like any other and one that I was good at. We shot at paper targets and it was a skill, hardly a movement. But that was in the '70s. This is not my NRA and I'm as much of a supporter of gun control as anyone here. These people are crazy...

[calimary]

30. Kicking. And I have a question.

Is there, or was there, any law on the books in Connecticut - or elsewhere - that prohibits gun ownership in the home where a mentally unstable person lives?

I mourn the death of the mother of that gunman. But seriously - somebody's gotta ask this. What on God's Green Earth was she doing with guns in the house?????? With a mentally-unstable son living there? WHAT WAS SHE THINKING???????

Isn't that something we can do? Isn't THAT a law or a restriction we should at least look at??????????????????

This is just dizzying in its wretchedness!!!!

We all need to see something DONE about this. NOW. Not some vague time later after the dust has settled and people go back to their lives and forget their outrage, anger, and zeal to make changes. NOW. When emotions ARE high, and can fuel more action for the greater good. When it's fresh in the mind, and MOST painful and unendurable. NOW.

[mindwalker_i]

33. Maybe we could send Loughner to a few NRA meetings

After giving him 15 cans of Mt. Dew

[LeftInTX]

35. Gun control advocacy groups?

Read about a few tonight. (I have no experience with these )

It is a relief that there are groups out there that are actually trying to do something.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/
http://www.csgv.org/