The motive was divorce.

[Fawke Em]

I, unfortunately, have some insight to this awful massacre.

My husband works in a profession that gets this stuff before mental health advocates get ahold of it.

Adam was wiped out over his parent's divorce.

If I'm wrong, please forgive me.

[Fridays Child]

1. That's some pretty simplistic BS.

Plenty of children are devastated by divorce, They don't all go out and execute Kindergarteners. On the other hand, if by referring to the murderer by his first name, you mean to imply that you have specific information about him, that's a huge violation of the privacy not only of his surviving family members but, by extension, of the massacre survivors, as well.

[patrice]

6. wow. . . . Perhaps OP is just simply compassionate for whatever suffering triggered such acts.

Un-necessary meanness also dishonors the victims, more than someone trying to say that Adam Lanza was a human too, a troubled one, especially deserving of our understanding for however it was that he became different from those other children you mention.

[Fridays Child]

12. Your analysis of my post is poor.

Voicing concern about violating the privacy of survivors victims hardly dishonors them. And suggesting that his parents' divorce is a primary cause of his murderous rampage is, as I said, simplistic BS.

[patrice]

26. The young man's name is all over the internet & so is mention of the divorce. OP said no more than

that perhaps he was hurt by the divorce. You are were un-necessarily judgemental with OP and now you attack and insult me for making that observation. What is wrong with you?

I wonder if you have ever considered whether it might just be the sum total of un-necessary petty little MEANNESSES and un-warranted criticism and bullying of others, like your response to OP, that might, just might be the sort of thing that has added up to the fact that people are ever so much more eager to get on the internet and talk about the vicious things they'd do to that poor lost soul than they are to do anything constructive about what needs to be done to see that there is some possibility of help out there for him and those like him before they break down completely and hurt others.

[Sherman A1]

28. Agreed

I found the response to be very mean spirited. One will never know just what caused this person to take the actions they did take, however I suspect it was a series of things cascading until we reached the very sad events of Friday.

I also suspect that the poster is just venting.

[magical thyme]

39. actually, the OP appears to claim to have inside information

which would be along the lines of spreading gossip and rumor as opposed to sharing actual proven facts.

Stupid thread altogether. Sorry I wasted my time opening it.

[JaneyVee]

46. Exactly. The shooter is dead, unless he left a manifesto we will have NO MOTIVE.

[politicaljunkie41910]

48. Sometimes the truth is not complex. I don't know if the OP is correct, but we all are looking for

answers and she may have it, (and I'm not saying she does), but why do we have to wait a year for an answer when law enforcement gets around to releasing it, when we can possibly know the truth now? Why are you so quick to attack the OP when you have no evidence that what she has said in not accurate or that she is purposefully being maliscious? Yes, plenty of divorced kids do not commit crimes, but we have to be able to identify those who are disturbed, depressed, or have mental issues in order to help them get the help they need. Your response does nothing to advance the discussion. Chill out.

[Fridays Child]

60. You certainly read a lot...

...into my response but almost nothing into the original post. Are children of divorce are more likely to break with reality than those from intact families? I suggest that you take your own advice and chill out.

[AlexSatan]

62. Plenty of people are

<fill in the blank with ANY of this guy's characteristics> and they don't all go out and execute Kindergarteners.

Is there any indication that his parents divorce was not a major cause? Sure it's not near as much fun to try to ban no-fault divorce as it is guns but yet

Children of separated or divorced parents are statistically three times as likely to display criminal behaviour as those whose parents stay together.
http://www.rnw.nl/africa/article/divorced-parents-%E2%80%93-criminal-children

I used data from trh Netherlands because most of the data in the US is reported by Christian organizations or the Heritage Foundation so it would be rejected by many on here, regardless of the underlying source.

But here's one that is OK

Data from Wisconsin shows that juvenile incarceration rates for children of divorced parents are 12 times higher than for children in two parent families.
http://cifdtt.org/v2.0/2011/11/17/the-facts-about-divorce/

[cherokeeprogressive]

2. He killed his mom, then all of her students.

To me, that speaks to some kind of delusion wherein killing his mom stopped some kind of problem and killing her students (the people she had the most influence over) kept her influence from spreading.

[JI7]

4. haven't they now said she wasn't a teacher there but maybe a helper ?

[DevonRex]

5. No. She had quit teaching a few years ago. Nt

[magical thyme]

40. they weren't her students.

because she wasn't a teacher there. Another wrong factoid being spread.

[SheilaT]

3. So being devastated by his parents' divorce

makes this okay? Or even understandable?

I don't think so. He's allowed to be wiped out, as you put it, over the divorce, but he is NOT allowed go go off and murder dozens. I'm just sorry he took the coward's way out and killed himself, rather than being put into a pit with the parents of all those dead children to do to him what they want.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. One does not imply you cannot have some measure of empathy

For the shooter. And this is called forensic psychology and it's critical to try to prevent future tragedies.

From the little I have gathered Lanza was...unwell, probably depressed.

And yes, believe it or not I can also see him as a very broken and fallible person. I don't need to make him a monster, even if what he did is monstrous. Doing that will only lose your humanity a small step at a time.

[SheilaT]

9. I've absolutely had it with

trying to explain away any of these acts.

Unwell? Depressed? I've been unwell at times. I was quite depressed over my own divorce. It never once occurred to me to solve my depression by going off and shooting a bunch of people.

He was a monster and deserves NO sympathy. I don't have a dead child because of this. I do have two grown sons who are incredibly dear to me. Younger son lives in Portland, OR. Two days ago I called him after hearing about the shootings at the Clackamas Mall. Turns out it's a place he goes to quite often. My son is still alive. Twenty young children in Connecticut are not. I don't think Lanza deserves one ounce of sympathy and compassion. Rotting in hell is too good for him. I wish he were still alive and we had a justice system that allowed the parents of the children he shot down to do what they want with him. That would still be too good for him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. You go ahead and lose your humanity

And I am serious.

[bettyellen]

13. this is the kind of ignorance that causes treatment to be defunded.

and ignorance IS part of the problem. you think it's merely depression like you had? for real?

[Skittles]

14. CORRECT

[bettyellen]

15. Yo Skittles! Long time no see!!

[Skittles]

20. HOWDY BETTYELLEN

such a sad time

[bettyellen]

22. incredibly sad, yes.

[SheilaT]

24. Okay.

I'm depressed.

I go out and I buy a gun.

I kill a lot of people.

But gee, I was depressed.

That makes it okay apparently.

I'm not ignorant about depression. Perhaps I'm ignorant in granting it as a valid motive for going out and killing dozens of people.

I do recognize that the real issue is genuine gun control. Read up on the Dunblane killings in 1996. The response to someone going into an elementary school in Scotland was NOT to say that oh, gosh, he was depressed and so we understand. NO. It was to make private gun ownership illegal.

THAT'S what we need to do here. I'm so sick of the hand-wringing, the exclamation that we couldn't possibly have prevented this because oh my, the shooter was depressed, he had mental illness as if that makes the murders somehow acceptable. Well, I'm sorry, but mental illness does not give someone a pass.

[bettyellen]

25. you ignorantly assume that depression alone cause a rampage like this. no clue whatsoever.

the other ignorant assumption- that there's only one issue, guns.
black and white, over simplistic bullshit. you might as well be in the middle ages saying this man was possessed by the devil. Ignorant.
explaining does not excuse, it is not hand wringing. it is the first step in understanding there is a huge public health crises in this country. parents have no options once their kids are past 18, which is usually before these types of psychosis emerge.

[SheilaT]

55. I know depression alone doesn't cause this.

But I am beyond appalled at the justifications being put out all over this board for why this thing happened.

People here will make incredible statements about all cops because of something one of them does, about all the people of a given state because of a law passed there, and so on. But now? They're contorting themselves into all kids of shapes to excuse what happened.

Guns are legal. His parents divorced and so he was depressed. Did I mention that guns are legal? And these ones apparently were his mother's and she got them legally? I'm feeling as if most people here are all too eager to excuse what happened. I'm not. I'm placing the blame squarely where it belongs, both on the absurd availability of guns in this country AND that young man's deliberate decision to do what he did.

[bettyellen]

59. if you insist on hearing "justifications" go right ahead. Some here know there is more than one

issue. And divorce isn't either of them. Guns are, and I understand your anger that some want to sweep that aside. That sucks.

But you are doing the same with the mental health crises, sweeping it under the rug for your pet cause.
So, you are also part of the suckage here now.

[gollygee]

36. It isn't a question of thinking it's OK

It's a matter of trying to understand what made him do it so other young people going through the same thing can hopefully be reached out to and helped BEFORE they do something so horrible.

[Lex]

47. Not one person has said that being depressed

"makes it okay apparently" to murder people.

If you have to twist up people's points like this you are failing.

[lumberjack_jeff]

56. This. n/t

[REP]

16. You know what? Peter Lanza has two sons, too

Or rather, had two sons. Imagine how he must feel.

Now imagine why it's possible to want to try to help the other Adam Lanzas before this happens again.

[Skittles]

21. they mentioned the grandmother breaking down

imagine being Nancy's mother and the shooter's grandmother - omg

[pinboy3niner]

18. What most people think of as 'depression' doesn't begin to touch the depths of clinical depression

Someone can reach the point at which the normal things that give us a reason to live--our families and our children--no longer work. Where it's possible to believe "They'd be better off without me."

And, when someone is so depressed as to see life as nothing more than a cruel joke, it's possible for that individual to see killing others--even children--as a mercy.

That kind of depression is a far cry from what most experience as being depressed or even being "quite depressed."

[bettyellen]

23. and depression is commonly found combined with other mental illnesses. its not so B+W.

[coalition_unwilling]

29. Excellent points. I wonder though whether Lanza may have actually had

Anti-Social Personality Disorder (Sociopathic Type). Heard a couple media mouths (on KCAL9) say he'd been diagnosed with Asperger's and OCD and it occurred to me that maybe the diagnostic vehicle employed might have missed the ASPD component.

I hope we hear from Jackpine Radical and other psych professionals on this in the days to come.

[pinboy3niner]

30. We may get some clues if he wrote something

If not, we'll see all kinds of theories, and we'll still be at a loss.

I was addressing only the idea that being depressed really isn't so bad. I think you and I know that depression alone can be VERY bad, even without other diagonoses.

I don't pretend to understand what's going on here. But one thing that is remarkable is that this family had the resources to be able to provide for mental health care. The son's care and treatment are likely to be among the big issues here.

[bettyellen]

32. past 18, his parents could not force him into a hospital, or even to see a doc and take meds.

absent very overt and eminently dangerous behavior they could not do anything to protect themselves or anyone-except kick him out on the street.

And while she was well off the annual price of committing someone is waaay more than the 250K alimony she was getting. Average commitment stays are something like 4-6 weeks- whatever insurance covers- and not a day more. Enough to stabilize and dump them back on the family, only to start the cycle again. You can't force an adult to stay on meds. You cannot keep them in the hospital once they are stabilized.

If she was frightened for her own safety, her most realistic option was to kick him out. I'm not going to judge a mother who cannot do that.

[Lars39]

35. If he was past 18, and recently Dx

or rediagnosed, she wouldn't even know the diagnosis unless he told her, gave permission for her to know, or she held medical power of attorney.

[bettyellen]

38. yep, the ignorance on this issue is amazing. because she was well off she could have him committed?

because she could have paid for doctors, he would just go? People assume this shit is a cakewalk. They have NO idea.

[coalition_unwilling]

58. Alma has been saying since yesterday that anyone seeking to own a firearm

should be required first to submit to the MMPI and have its finding reviewed by competent medical authorities before a license to bear arms is granted. I'm not sure I would go quite that far, but I definitely support 100% the idea that firearms possession should be licensed, much like driving is.

Clinical depression is not only much worse than the vernacular "I'm depressed," it actually is often accompanied by physical changes in brain chemistry as certain chemicals will either show a surplus or deficit over normal levels. So when the Connecticut governor said 'evil visited Newtown" yesterday, I could sympathize with the sentiment but still wonder to myself whether what had really visited was untreated (and undiagnosed?) mental illness.

That's probably not going to be a popular sentiment around these parts for the next few days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Yup

[tkmorris]

17. Good post

Actually, GREAT post.

[patrice]

8. Understanding how something happened doesn't mean that it is excused. It means we might get a CHANCE

to recognize others who might be at risk of breaking too BEFORE that happens.

[Fawke Em]

49. I didn't say that.

In fact, my implication was quite the opposite.


In any case, my OP has been proven correct: http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Divorce-pulled-Lanza-family-apart-4120810.php


I can give more information, now. Adam could not understand and spent years in uncontrollable rage over his parents' split. There was plenty of money, but a lot of selfishness.

[LisaL]

11. If divorces led to mass shootings,

half a country would end up dead.

[gollygee]

37. If everyone responded to it in this way, then yes

The question is why he responded to it in this way, and who else might, and how can they be identified so they can be helped before they do something horrible.

[HappyMe]

42. I don't know that we are

ever going to find out what the motive was here. His parents have been divorced for quite some time.
He's the only one that knows definitively why.

[Michigan Alum]

19. He already had serious mental health issues that reached their breaking point after the divorce.

I'm guessing. There is no-one who does something like this only because of a divorce. From what I understand, he had issues with a personality disorder.

[Fawke Em]

50. You are correct. eom

[Michigan Alum]

27. It was said that he had a personality disorder

My guess it was this:

Diagnostic criteria for 301.0 Paranoid Personality Disorder

(DSM IV - TR)
(cautionary statement)
A. A pervasive distrust and suspiciousness of others such that their motives are interpreted as malevolent, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

(1) suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her
(2) is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates
(3) is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
(4) reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events
(5) persistently bears grudges, i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights
(6) perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack
(7) has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner

[vaberella]

31. That's weird...they talked in the news as though the divorce was years and years ago.

Where the oldest son went to live with their father and he stayed with their mother. And they even stated that the oldest son hadn't had contact with his brother in years and the father was already remarried.

[FarCenter]

43. IIRC, the divorce was in 2009

The older son would have been in college by that time. It is far enough from Newtown that he probably was not living in Newtown.

The older son is reported to not have had contact since 2010.

The divorce was initiated by the mother. I would speculate that disagreement over how to cope with Adam was a factor. They would seem to have had the means to put him in care setting. A cousin has a son who will be in a group home for the rest of his life.

[cbdo2007]

44. My parents got divorced 22 years ago and I still have major issues from it

and see a therapist regularly. Who are you to judge how much of an effect on someone a traumatic event in their life has??

[slackmaster]

33. That may have been a factor in the development of his personality disorder

But not the only cause.

[Kaleva]

34. Apprently he had issues long before his parents got divorced.

[WinkyDink]

41. Yeah, killing children makes eminent sense then. NOT.

[cbdo2007]

45. The impact of divorce and broken families in our society is seriously under scrutinized.

Because all the people studying this now are getting divorced themselves and for some reason thing it's all about the parents while the kids get pushed to the back burner - not only through the divorce but for years afterward as the parents start dating again and trying to get laid and find a new spouse with kids they need to impress.

I work in the mental health industry and have tried getting people on board to study this issue much more.....with just about nobody interested in being a part of it.

[Turborama]

52. My parents divoced horrifically when I was 13. I didn't want to go and murder innocent kids. N/T

[Logical]

54. Why would you post this. Change title to 'IMO...', wow fail!

[Coyotl]

57. Here is some insight:

First Marriage 45% to 50% marriages end in divorce
Second Marriage 60% to 67% marriages end in divorce
Third Marriage 70% to 73% marriages end in divorce

[Cleita]

61. It took him three years to react?

Also, dad had remarried. You'd think he would be mad at dad not mom. I don't think that was the reason. He had a meltdown of some sort over something more immediate happening in his life.