Parents of mentally ill adult children have few options.

[Drahthaardogs]

My daughter has sever bipolar is also borderline personality disorder. She is sick with a horrible disease. She almost sent an innocent boy to prison claiming he raped her at knifepoint, but it later turned out, that it never happened. She lies. She screams and hits. She is often times dangerous. Three of the four other people in the house have had to get stitches because of her.

Her grasp on reality is tenuous as best. When she was younger, we had her hospitalized. They released her two years later at age 18, not because she was better, but because she was no an adult and they could not hold her against her will. She does no like to take her medication. She likes the high of bipolar and hates the lows. So, she manipulates the meds taking the antidepressants but avoiding the mood stabilizers.

To be blunt, she is a pretty hard person to be around. Only her family can handle her for any length of time. However, the counselors and psychiatrists are loathe to hospitalize her. Even if they do, they cannot hold her very long.

As parents, there is nothing we can do. We need some laws out there that make it easier for parents of severely mentally ill kids to get control of them. I am not talking money, I am talking the right to have a sick kid taken to the hospital and kept there until they are stable. The right to force them to take their medication, the right to force them into counseling.

You have never felt so helpless as the parent of a mentally ill adult child. I guarantee it.

[cthulu2016]

1. Thanks for the post

[dkf]

2. Our society is helpless...

That is the reason we see these shootings. We prevent ourselves from doing what we need to do to protect the individual and the public.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. I was thinking about this last night and was briefly glad his mother is not around anymore.

Then I remembered he has a father.

That poor man.

[In_The_Wind]

4. I'm sorry, Drahthaardogs.

My oldest and dearest friend's daughter is bi-polar.
Just finding the right meds has been a challenge.
We love her and try to help her through her suffering.

[Lint Head]

5. I am struggling with someone in my family who has mental issues. It's not dangerous but real help

is almost impossible to get because funding for mental health was so badly cut by the Reagan Administration. Public mental health institutions with real professionals administering was devastated. All you get today is a visit with a therapist who listens to your problems then says, "Next?" True caring for the mentally ill is lacking in our country. If they are not helped they end up being locked away or roam the streets.

[freshwest]

22. +1

[Timbuk3]

66. +1

[Laurian]

6. Similar situation in our extended family.

It causes me great concern.....

Nothing can be done if you "think" someone is a danger to themselves or others. It's almost like you have to wait until something awful happens. A feeling of total helplessness.

[FarCenter]

7. A wound requiring stitches would be assault and battery

It is a crime and the victim can press charges.

[cthulu2016]

9. It is imlplicit in the OP that the parent does not view prison as a good outcome for the daughter

[Posteritatis]

10. I'm sure prison without treatment is a wonderful way to address bipolar disorder. (nt)

[FarCenter]

14. Some prisons do provide a degree of mental health care

You also have to consider the health and safety of the other family members and the public at large.

[Posteritatis]

21. Pity the overwhelming, vast majority don't, and that you can't pick someone's prison. (nt)

[Lex]

13. And?

[RedCappedBandit]

62. Uh, yeah, I think the point is to *avoid* that scenario.

[Lindsay]

8. I wish I had more to offer

than my sympathy for what you're going through.

This is such a difficult topic, such a difficult balancing act, and in a society that is dangerously off-balance in so many ways.

[FedUpWithIt All]

11. I have that level of mental illness in my own family.

And i agree with you that the mental health care system, as it stands, does not help families dealing with seriously ill people.

[LWolf]

12. I agree with you.

And I'm sorry.

[mopinko]

15. true

people who think that families can do something about these people are seriously deluded. helpless is the word. i know, too.

[freshwest]

25. +1

[cali]

16. I sympatize but don't see how it can be done without

abrogating civil rights.

[bettyellen]

44. when the alternative is dumping them out on the street, it's no longer abstract

concern for civil rights that is most important. but rather what is the sanest and safest way to not throw these lives in the crapper.

[cali]

51. hardly abstract. the fight for civil rights for the mentally ill is very real

That's why there's a federal mandate that every state must have a Protection and Advocacy program


http://www.napas.org/

[bettyellen]

54. the fight to increase care and support for the ill and their families is more important to those

who are concerned about the lives of those they love.
The abstract concept of liberty very often translates into a life on the streets for the very ill. If it's your loved one suffering and unable to help themselves, it's impossible to see things as a simple legal issue.

[cali]

61. both are important. I spent five years working for

P&A and I saw firsthand the abuse that the mentally ill suffer- often at the hands of their "loving" families.

[RainDog]

17. k&r n/t

[mzmolly]

18. I'm so sorry to hear about your child. Though, Lanza's mother was remiss to have a gun

collection around her mentally disturbed son. I'm not blaming Nancy Lanza, but there seems to have been a common sense chip missing.

[bunnies]

24. +1000

My sister is bi-polar like the OPs daughter. Additionally, shes a cutter. The LAST thing I would do would be to provide her with easy access to guns.

[Demeter]

32. How do we know they were hers?

The son may have forged her identity and bought them. You can do anything though phone, mail and internet.....

[mzmolly]

53. According to members of her family she was a survivalist

who enjoyed guns and wanted to be prepared for a collapse in civilzation. She took her boys to the shooting range with her, and they too were trained to shoot. The guns were hers, by all accounts.

[Demeter]

63. Thanks

I live in a news desert

[MadrasT]

19. I understand completely.

My family has been around the block many times with similar issues.

It is hard for everybody... the mentally ill, and those who love them and are also dramatically affected by their illnesses.

Mental illness also seems to be very poorly understood by those who are not directly affected.

[mzmolly]

20. PS - I've heard one mental health advocate suggest to lie

and say your mentally ill relative is a danger to self or others. That's the only way to force a hold.

I feel your pain as I have bipolar in my family as well. Though in my case, it's is a parent. A very difficult situation, indeed.

[Live and Learn]

42. And that is usually only a 72 hr hold

The hospitals are limited in how long they can hold a patient involuntarily.

The only real way to do it involves tons of money and good lawyers that can get you guardianship rights (like Britney Spears parents did).

[mzmolly]

55. 72 hours ... true, unless the patient is classified by the hospital

as dangerous as well.

[Live and Learn]

57. And there are still limits and many hurdles to overcome.

Most psychiatric hospitals are underfunded and not able to jump through the hurdles.

[mzmolly]

59. Believe me I know this.

As I've stated above I have a bi-polar/schizoaffective parent. I'm not saying we have solutions in place. Far from it.

[liberal_at_heart]

23. My husband had severe depression with borderline bipolar

Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:13 PM - Edit history (1)

It's amazing how far and how fast you can spiral down to the depths of hell with these disorders. It took two months to find a psychiatrist who had room in his schedule to see him and he was seeking help. He had to plead for his life on the phone with one of these psychiatrists before one of them finally said okay I'll make room for you. I complain a lot about our education system being broken but it is nothing compared to how broken our mental health system is. Our mental health system is almost non existent.

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. I am bipolar (Luckily 2 and not 1) and when I lost my medicaid for a while I could

only afford to see my psychiatrist for the minimum number of visits for med review. That would be 4 times a year, at 15 minutes a pop.

One hour of mental healthcare spread out over a year, for two and a half years.

And RWers brag about how good the healthcare is in this country, how people from other countries come here to avail themselves of it.

[Live and Learn]

43. +1 nt

[nolabear]

26. I'm so sorry. You're right, peoples' hands are tied and so are practitioners'. It's terrible.

Adults can be involuntarily admitted if they pose an imminent anger to themselves or others, but unless they are obviously dangerous it's hard to assess and impossible to make happen. And meds are frequently manipulated, as you said, without anyone knowing. It's damn near impossible to know what's actually going on with an adult who is operating under the privileges afforded adults. It's a tough, tough call. Do you remove individual rights because of diagnoses? When are they resumed? Is involuntary monitoring of meds a good idea as a condition for retention of rights? The effects of meds change; something that helped can stop helping. With personality disorders as you know, people think the problem is everyone BUT them and so don't take to therapy or intervention well.

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. We comfort ourselves with the illusion that we can somehow control what people will do and always be safe, but so far it is a terribly hard thing. I do hope that access and destigmatizing illness will help families to feel they can take action to help those who are ill, because the nature of the illness itself can make it almost impossible for the individual to do so.

And the loss of the dream of a child with a happy, fulfilling life is a cause for enormous grief. I am sorry you're going through this. I hope it gets better.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

27. I know. :( In some cases, the parents themselves are in danger.

There do need to be laws that help parents in these situations.

[kiva]

28. It is not, thankfully, an issue I have had to deal with,

and have great respect and sympathy for those who do. The only thing I do say is that parents and family members have one choice - do not keep guns in the house or where they are easily accessible to their mentally ill child, partner, or sibling.

[Arugula Latte]

29. Yes. It is so frustrating, and another way Reagan screwed this country over.

A friend's brother became severely schizophrenic and no matter how many times he was admitted to a hospital he'd be released after a few days, only to go off his meds again. There was nothing my friend could do for his brother. Finally he wandered off into the cold and was found dead. The only silver lining was that he had not hurt anyone else in the process.

I really feel for you. You are in such a tough position. I don't know what to say.

[Odin2005]

30. In the 80s we went from one extreme to the other...

Before de-institutionalization the mentally ill were poorly treated and had pretty much no rights to protest their poor treatment, now we are so obsessed with personal liberty that forcing them to get help is impossible.

[Live and Learn]

46. Exactly. The solution will not be easy and patient's rights must be

protected but so must their safety and the safety of others. The conversation must get started.

[bobclark86]

48. Choosing between the two is difficult...

I've known people who were in places like Willowbrook (actually, I knew a lady who was AT Willowbrook before she died last year). That is, in every definition of the word, an atrocity. It's the one positive thing I'll ever say about Geraldo, but go watch his report from when he was at WABC in New York.

Places like Willowbrook were dumping grounds -- in the 1940s, women with post-partum depression, "sluts," drunks, dope fiends, paralyzed people and those with Down syndrome or cerebral palsy were all tossed into these places. Things like Thorazine helped get some out. Some treatment programs were put in place for others. But up until the 1980s, these institutions were all too common in America.

We learned the hard way one extreme won't work -- and now the other obviously isn't working, either.

[Live and Learn]

58. +1 I had a friend that worked in one of those facilities.

The way the patients were treated was appalling. Forcing them on to the streets is no less appalling.

[Odin2005]

64. I have a severely autistic aunt who was warehoused in an institution for years.

It left her severely damaged.

[KarenS]

33. I understand you & I sympathize with you,,,,, Helpless is the right word for the feeling.

My son is 36 and over the years several professionals have told me he's probably Bipolar.
He self-medicates with drugs & alcohol but will not seek the medical mental help he needs.
He cannot/will not hold a job. He cannot/will not manage money. He cannot/will not manage his life.

There's very little I can do.

Your post made me cry. I get it.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

34. I hope you get support and care

from the people around you. You are dealing with one of the most difficult
situations any parent can imagine.

Thank you for posting this and adding some understanding to what parents
and guardians are dealing with.

[dinger130]

35. I know the feeling of helplessness.

I have an adult son who has schizo-affective disorder. At one point, I was able to have him put in prison on bogus charges just to get him help in the psychiatric section of prison. That was my only option because of the laws and the system. I even was called to the prison (he was in lock-down) just to encourage him to take his meds because he refused for months. He was psychotic. Prisons are now psychiatric hospitals for the mentally ill. I was encouraged to go to these drastic measures because I could get no help for him. Laws need to be in place for meds to be forced. Upon his last release from a psychiatric hospital (this rare time he admitted he needed help), I asked if there was a place for him to live and get help, and I was told no and to let him go. Yes, that was their answer, let him go. Typically, 3 days is the standard amount of time for the mentally ill to become stable in a hospital setting. Anyway, that is what they think. Unless he breaks the law, there is no place for him to go. He is extremely irritable at times and depressed at other times. He lived with me for ten years at the onset of his illness. I can't do it anymore. I have scars too. He is on the street, off and on his meds. God only knows what he is thinking or planning. The system needs to change NOW.

[PlanetBev]

47. My nephew has the same condition, Dinger

I watched my sister and late brother-in-law struggle with that from the time he was a child. They did everything they could possibly could for him, to no avail. He's 35 and we're not even sure where he's living now.

One thing that makes me mad is when the parents of these children are judged. You hear a lot of, "you should do this, or you should do that". Believe me, these parents try everything and often go broke in the process, financially and emotionally.

[SocratesInSpirit]

60. Yes, this makes me mad, too.

There were people on this board saying that even the parents (!!!) of mass shooters should be jailed. Even before I became a parent myself (not all that long ago), it infuriated me how much people blame parents for every single little thing their kids do, as if they expect kids to be little robots who have no will or personality of their own. That's not to say that parents shouldn't discipline their kids, but even when they're infants, you can only control a kid up to a certain point - my two-month old stubbornly refuses to take bottles, and the only thing we can do is be patient and just keep trying different methods to hopefully convince her to take them eventually. So I can only imagine how impossible it is to control a 20-year-old's actions.

[Cleita]

36. We definitely need to give the families of mentally ill members more resources and

help. I'm so sorry for your dilemma. Many families give up and let those family members fend for themselves on the streets because they are exhausted and have no resources to fall back on. Who decided people like that are able to make rational decisions by themselves just because they are of legal age? It seems we need to refine what a legally adult person is by how responsible they are able to be about their actions and decisions.

[cate94]

37. Helpless

indeed. You also feel as helpless when you are the sibling of an adult with mental health issues. It is impossible to deal with because our system is so broken. (My parents are gone and my sibling is single.) The only thing I was could do was insist that I wouldn't give money for food unless a psychologist was seen and meds were taken. It made me sick to do that. It also put me in a very unsafe position.

Things are better for the moment but one never knows if it will all start again.

[AldoLeopold]

38. My son is Bipolar II

And I had to move him up to his mother in Mass just to get proper care. He's doing much better now.

My state, Arkansas, is currently being sued by the USAG for having improper psychiatric medical care of its citizens - bordering on the criminal.

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. Glad you found a way to help your son. And I hope the USAG kicks your state's butt.

[AldoLeopold]

41. Me too

[BobbyBoring]

45. It's a shame how ill equiped we are to deal with mental illness.

My father was a paranoid schizophrenic and had to go on "long trips" from time to time when I was very young. He would come home and be OK for a year or so and then have to go away again. I was sheltered from this until I was old enough to somehow grasp what was happening. This was in the 60s so he did have a place to go. A mental institution is what there were called then. He reached the point where he couldn't function in the real world so he stayed there until he died.

Now, these institutions are few and far between. We were lucky that we had such a place and a system that would allow you to commit someone. I don't think we could get through it the way things are now~

[socalgal58]

49. My brother is paranoid schizophrenic...

I understand what you are going thru as I've watched my parents (in their 80's) deal with this for several years. He is incapable of making decisions (good, bad or otherwise), he is delusional (thinks there are baby sacrifices in the woods behind my house) and has proven to be a danger to himself (wandering down the middle of the street in the dark)- we cannot get him into programs, because he refuses, we cannot have him held in facilities because he signs himself out, etc..... we have found a boarding house that caters to disabilities of this type and he is "supervised" (meaning he must be in by a certain time) and has someone deliver and watch while he takes his meds (which work up until he develops a tolerance for them, then look out). He hates my parents and is quite frankly, creepy- he cannot help it, we know- but if his meds aren't working, he is almost unbearable- again, we cannot force him to take them, neither can the social workers who visit him weekly.
Something must be done to help both the patient and the families- mental illness is far too often swept under the rug and the poor souls and their families left to deal with it. It sucks.
I am so sorry for you. I wish you luck and hope you can get the help you need.
Hugs....

[bobclark86]

50. I know somebody

in this exact same position. Actually, I know several.

For example, my father was distraught when my mother left him, and he attempted suicide. Fortunately, he was voluntarily admitted to a psych ward at a hospital. That was four Thanksgivings ago I haven't spoken to him since, and he's just now starting to get back on track (odd jobs fixing people's furniture and such, but at least he isn't living off SSI anymore... he used to be a computer engineer raking in the big bucks). I feel almost as helpless as you do, as there is nothing I can do to help him right now.

Another is a girl who was abused (pretty much every way) growing up. She's in jail now for stealing a credit card number. A couple friends are working with the district attorney to see if she can't get into a program somewhere.

We need to carefully figure out a way to help people that need it, while making sure the system is free from abuse (like a preacher committing their child, with the help of a conservative judge, because their child is gay or had an abortion... stranger things have happened in this country and still do).

It's sad to say, but as it sits now, the only way your child will get help is if you call the cops for assault. With a decent DA, you could work out something to get them help. That and lobbying for change.

Good luck.

[Ilsa]

52. Thank you for your post. Yes, you have to

Demonstrate that they are a danger to themselves or others before a judge will intervene. Until they do something, they can run wild.

I think we need guardianship or something, with state assistance, to be more available when people need constant medication in order to be in their right mind.

[Drahthaardogs]

56. Which is why, at this point in the game, we have made her leave the house.

We made the rule, no medication = no room and board. Harsh - yes. However, you realize your only chance is that she becomes bad enough to warrant hospitalization for an extended period. So, as a parent, you purposely deny care to your own child that you would extend to a complete stranger hoping they crash hard enough that the government will declare you, the parent, the guardian. Then she is like a child once again and we can force her into treatment.

Sick, isn't it?

[Timbuk3]

65. Thank you for posting this

While I can't claim that I "share your pain", I can certainly sympathize with what you're having to deal with, so I think it took courage to post this.

Not to mention I think it's a LOT more valuable contribution to the current "debate" about what can be done to stop things like the shooting in Newtown than 98% of the posts I've seen, today.

I can believe that there are parents of mentally ill adult children who know their child has only one chance to survive, by allowing them to live in their homes, who go to be every night wondering if they'll be stabbed to death in their sleep.

I had been thinking there were two ways to stop something like Newtown from happening again; confiscation of all guns, nationwide, or posting trained, armed guards at places like movie theaters and schools. Thanks to you, I now see a third option, and the options you propose, "the right to have a sick kid taken to the hospital and kept there until they are stable. The right to force them to take their medication, the right to force them into counseling.", even when they're an adult, is something that should be considered.

There's even a precedent, of sorts. It's entirely legal to hold someone who's suicidal for 72 hours. Perhaps a slight re-write to the law that says anyone who refuses to take mood stabilizing drugs is potentially suicidal, and may be held indefinitely until they agree to take those drugs? This may not be the best solution, but I've just begun to think about it.

Good luck, and thanks for sharing your difficult reality with me. Definitely, it's food for thought.

(Edited to correct a typo.)

[snot]

67. K&R'd. Great thread; thanks to all.

[hellenkouf]

68. I understand in more ways than one

I was a child of a mentally ill mother and in turn now have an 19 year old daughter who has ADHD, ODD and Anxiety. She has no education, no ambition to work and feels everything is owed to her. My 14 year old son and I are constantly experiencing her mood swings and I don't know what to say to him as to why he has to behave a certain way when she's there constantly not. After years of on-again, off-again meds and counselling for her I finally sent her to a residential treatment program up north she ran off after 1.5 years of the program and now is in my home again. I feel like I am going to go nuts and I can't force her on meds or to see any doctors so we just experience all the mood swings. I also believe something should be done in order for parents to be able to do more for their families.

[uppityperson]

69. Welcome to DU and best wishes to you and yours.