General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe USA needs to confront its true history, genocide and slavery, guns and wars.
The USA was built on armed invasion and the genocide of uncounted Native Nations.
Guns made it possible to steal land from unarmed Natives.
Guns made it possible to steal people from Africa for enslavement in the USA.
Guns made it possible to throw off English rule and invade Ohio.
Guns made it possible to kill every Indian in sight and settle Oregon.
Guns made it possible to steal half of Mexico from Native peoples.
Guns made it possible to force surviving Natives into their concentration camps.
Confronting this history requires doing something about the Native Peoples in the Concentration Camps (reservations).
Confronting this history requires doing something about the stolen lands which rightfully belong to others.
Confronting this history requires doing something about the false history and false idea that the USA is great.
There is one just place where people think the USA is great, inside the USA. The rest of the world knows the facts.
It is about time the people inside the bubble did too.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)white Americans are unwilling to do so, let alone admit the crimes of their ancestors.
niyad
(113,345 posts)despite things like howard zinn's "the people's history", many still believe the myths, lies and distortions of the history of this country.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)by Howard Zinn - http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
The Note: This great book should really be read by everyone. It is difficult to describe why it so great because it both teaches and inspires. You really just have to read it. We think it is so good that it demands to be as accessible as possible. Once you've finished it, we're sure you'll agree. In fact, years ago, we would offer people twenty dollars if they read the book and didn't think it was completely worth their time. Of all the people who took us up on it, no one collected.
The disclaimer: This version is made from OCR. That is a fancy way of saying that we scanned in and coded over six hundred fifty pages. There will be a few small occasional errors: spelling mistakes, odd punctuation, and the like. If you see any, please contact us. We have posted it in spite of these mistakes for two simple reasons. First, the book is worth a mistake or two because it really deserves the widest audience possible. Second, we are sure that once you new people begin reading it, you'll go out and get a physical copy. You should go and get it (and ones for your friends and family). At this point, A People's History Of The United States is available in regular form, read aloud on audio, on posters, in a teaching edition, and as just the twentieth century chapters (we have all but the posters). And now here. Please Enjoy!
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)considered a responsible citizen. Paperback copies are inexpensive, new, and copies, both soft and hard, can be found at the Goodwill and other secondhand stores (I have bought dozens of copies and given them to students and others who show an interest in the past).
If one hasn't completed Christmas shopping this book is a valuable and worthy gift.
malaise
(269,054 posts)by a distance
cali
(114,904 posts)sophomoric at best. I've long thought the polar opposite of American rah rah exceptionalism is the America is pure evil jargon.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)We are violent. Always have been. Not just the USA but the whole world. Humans are violent. Nature is violent.
morbidly enough, what the OP claims is sort of a form of American exceptional-ism....in that we are some how exceptionally evil. Yes we have an ugly history, and Americans need to learn to face it. Other Western countries have equally if not uglier histories, but the difference is they learned or are learning to face it. But the idea that we are somehow unique in those atrocities, particularly against slaves and aboriginal people, is a farce.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)The whole of humanity is NOT equally violent, and human behavior and cultural programming is under our control.
The problem today in the USA may well be that control of culture has been ceded to the media and corporatism and is oriented towards consumerism rather than directed towards a better human future.
Edweird
(8,570 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)unknown. But, the culture is fully capable of reacting violently when confronted with an invading culture.
Militarism greatly increases the incidence of violence within a society as well as increases the incidence of spousal abuse.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Mass Shootings In U.S. Since 2005 (MAP)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/mass-shootings-around-the-us-amp_n_2303432.html
Friday's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary is the second deadliest school shooting in the country's history, after only Virginia Tech, ......
former9thward
(32,025 posts)Please name another country in the world that does not have a history of blood and horrific violence as part of recorded history.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)In Cuzco on Sept. 18, 1589, the last survivor of the original conquerors of Peru, Don Mancio Serra de Leguisamo, wrote in the preamble of his will the following in parts:
"...the motive which obliges me to make this statement is the discharge of my conscience, as I find myself guilty. For we have destroyed by our evil example, the people who had such a government as was enjoyed by these natives. They were so free from the committal of crimes or excesses, as well men as women, that the Indian who had 100,000 pesos worth of gold or silver in his house, left it open merely placing a small stick against the door, as a sign that its master was out. With that, according to their custom, no one could enter or take anything that was there. When they saw that we put locks and keys on our doors, they supposed that it was from fear of them, that they might not kill us, but not because they believed that anyone would steal the property of another. So that when they found that we had thieves among us, and men who sought to make their daughters commit sin, they despised us."
former9thward
(32,025 posts)http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071003-inca-sacrifice.html
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)not known for caring about facts
former9thward
(32,025 posts)With your own set of comfortable "facts".
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:56 PM - Edit history (1)
with our own set of real "facts" about ourselves, rather than accepting someone in Washington, D.C. or Spain as a determinative authority on who we are!
former9thward
(32,025 posts)Who knew?
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)and they really make shit up all the time. If you were from a Native community you would understand these facts. Do Native scholars write about child sacrifice in the USA. Do our Native scholars call you cannibals? No, not even when there is real evidence in our time that a white guy eats people.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)I'm a leading scientist in the field.
former9thward
(32,025 posts)You just proved it. Since you are a "leading scientist" you can link me to a peer reviewed journal article which disproves the link I posted.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)former9thward
(32,025 posts)Along with countless others that come up on a routine search. The "leading scientist in the field" couldn't come up with anything. I wonder why? You have been exposed.
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)I teach Latin American history (specifically indigenous peoples) for a living. Violence in indigenous communities was different than today, but there sure as hell was violence. They fought wars, they conquered one another, they lived, breathed, and died like any other human community. Do not make an essentialist argument, it does nothing to further your claim.
Read Charles Mann's 1491. The Incas, Mexica, and Mayas had state religions. They exploited the environment. It is not good or bad, it just is.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Or do you teach what the Spaniards wrote about Natives? I recommend you read the guides to ethnohistorical sources and assess the validity of those false stories.
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)of the Anishinabe nation. But I am not, by "blood" a native person. It has never bothered the indigenous communities with which I've worked.
And I teach what native communities said about themselves and their experiences. You cannot teach history from one perspective, by the way. I explain to my students that what the Spanish, Portuguese and other Europeans wrote about native populations was based on racism, misunderstanding, and hatred. I explain that thinking about human sacrifice is not possible from a 21st century perspective, because that perspective can never understand Mexica religious beliefs they way they truly were. I inform my students that I will not tolerate judgments of indigenous religious beliefs because indigenous worldviews are different from EuroAmerican worldviews.
Don't you dare try to pull the crap that only indigenous people can teach indigenous history. I've heard it before and it's an essentialist argument. Do you think only Irish people can teach Irish history? Italian people Italian history? I could go on.
I have a PhD in the ethnohistory of indigenous peoples of Latin America.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)And modern historians who accept the ethnohistorical writings just overlook that "problem" when accepting the writings as sources of their claims.
a la izquierda
(11,795 posts)Do tell me what ethnohistorians you mean? Those are some vague, vicious claims you made, and you're way of expressing yourself is verging on broadbrushed, racist attacks.
Or don't respond, I don't care. I've wearied of defending myself to someone who will clearly find something new to attack with ( because you're not actually responding to anything I'm writing). Besides I don't really need to defend myself to some anonymous Internet commando.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)Steven Pinker charts the decline of violence from Biblical times to the present.
It is true that the US has a bad history of aggressive wars and human rights violations; but the native people in the Americas and elsewhere were also perfectly capable of inflicting great amounts of violence against their fellow man.
When graves are uncovered from ancient times, including from various native tribes from around the world, archaeologists find that a large percentage of the bodies show signs of suffering a violent death. People around the world are far safer from violent death now than in any time ever in human history.
Some American politicians and war promoters do need to get the memo that violence is on the way out.
byeya
(2,842 posts)and Nagasaki.
I would not use Pinker as a source on human behavior.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)This includes all forms of murder: whether from war or from one-on-one conflict.
He shows that the violent death rate has gone down since WWII.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)There is no way such a broad brush assertion can be proven.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)Joan Baez, that exemplifies this aspect of our history perfectly; it's called "God on our Side" and the lyrics are truly chilling. It goes through our whole history from the Revolution to when he wrote it in the 60's, with each verse ending in "with God on our side." There's one that talks about the pioneer settlers and the war against the Indians that ends with "with their guns in their hands and God on their side." It may be nearly fifty years old, but it sure speaks to today; all true art is timeless.
ETA: okay, I just found a great video on youtube of Joan Baez's cover of the song (the best version, frankly, and the one I first heard and learned, back in the mid-80's, in a Vietnam history class, no less). It has the song with pictures to go along with each verse. I hadn't heard it in almost twenty years, so I'm a bit wrong on some of what I said about it, but the gist is the same. One of the most chilling lines in it, next to "with their guns in their hands and God on their side", is the line that ends the verse regarding World War I: "for you don't count the dead when God's on your side". Kind of reminds you of the RW gun nut attitude, doesn't it?
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Thanks for posting this.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Guns are tools of genocide all too often. Face it.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)Even though I don't like Jared Diamond.
byeya
(2,842 posts)many interesting points.