The elementary school shooter is autistic?

[Odin2005]

I was just out to lunch and I overheard two woman talking about the shooting and I heard one of them saying she heard on the news that the shooter was "autistic or Asperger's", and then ranted off some ignorant statement about autistic people not having feelings.

[FedUpWithIt All]

1. There is a lot of ignorance in this world.

People often don't try to understand things unless they are personally affected by them. It is pathetic but it is a broad problem.

I'm sorry she said that.

[1monster]

2. Please don't go there. There is autism in my husband's family and I have

worked with austistic people.

This was not the act of someone because he was autistic. Autism is not a ciminal illness.

On edit: I believe I saw a thread, but didn't read it that the shooter had a personality disorder, which is way different than autism.

[AldoLeopold]

52. My understanding is that there was comorbidity

with schizophrenia. It wasn't because he was autistic.

[FarPoint]

3. Well...it appears this autistic-Aspergers' client

had no feelings. There is obvious a total disconnection with this disorder.....social boundaries are completely absent.

[Brickbat]

4. Dude...don't wave your ignorance around like that.

It just makes you look stupid, and you could hurt yourself.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Amen!

[FarPoint]

9. I'm entitled to my opinion.

I stand by this view and the right to voice it in this discussion. This kid was disconnected socially...had no boundaries. If he is also autistic....so be it....

[Brickbat]

12. It seems that your opinion is that "autistic" = socially disconnected = "no feelings."

Your opinion is wrong.

[FarPoint]

21. Obviously Adam Lanza is/was totally disconnected from social boundaries.

If indeed he is/was diagnosed autistic with Aspergers....then....the potential range of this disorder needs a closer examination.

I'm sure it didn't help him being raised by a family loving guns morning, noon and night.... A family that condones and encourages weapons will have an effect on his socialization.

[janlyn]

27. How dare you!!!

I have aspbergers,and I assure you I have feelings..I am feeling that you are an ignorant ass right about now!!!

May I recommend google or bing,they are these great search engines where you can look up stuff.So as to keep yourself from looking like a low IQ Moron!!!

It's bad enough trying to educate people about Aspbergers without people like you who seem to think they are a bleedin'genius on every subject,spouting stupid shit!!!

[FarPoint]

36. Thank you for sharing.

You say I have an IQ of a moron and that I am an ignorant ass...

and you speak of Aspergers as one who has identified as suffering from this disorder.........

I see is this.......

Your rage and explosive, impulsive behavior shows serious violent feelings....not sensitivity.

I don't need to Google anything...you validate the disconnect theory.


snip>

"I am feeling that you are an ignorant ass right about now!!!"

" So as to keep yourself from looking like a low IQ Moron!!!"

end>

[Posteritatis]

41. Are you defining "sensitivity" as "agree with me in all particulars" or something?

You don't get to whip out the ridiculous broad brush you're using, attack an entire demographic with it in an astonishingly ignorant manner, and then get to sneer from atop your high horse because the people you're insulting are insulted.

Get over yourself. There's no "trying to understand" going on in your posts.

[janlyn]

48. call it like I see it..

It's not rage to point out someones ignorance...if the shoe fits???

It amazes me that people who are so egotistical as to think they know about a subject act offended when someone points out there errors...

It's not unheard of when someone who is offended (me) gets angry!!

being angry is not the same as being homicidal!!!

Oh,and my reply was not impulsive,I thought about what I wanted to say and then I said it..

[KT2000]

55. I understand your anger but

this is a time to educate others. It is more effective and lasts longer than insults. Enlightenment and change is then possible.
Peace to you.

[Ilsa]

43. As a nurse and mother of an autistic child,

You don't know what you are talking about.

If A.L. was also a sociopath or psychopath, that is a COMPLETELY different diagnosis, on a completely different Axis of mental disorders.
You cannot boil this down to "Autism = sociopathy or lack of empathy."

He was also at the right age for a schizophrenic breakdown, too. But I'm not going to be an armchair psychiatrist and diagnose him with that. Only reconstructing his medical records and the reports from family members about him will deliver a clearer picture of his likely diagnosis(es).

[FarPoint]

44. I never claimed that all autistic-Aspergers are lumped together.

My original reply focused on this Adam Lanza who has been identified as autistic. Addressing his actions...

snip>

#3. " Well...it appears this autistic-Aspergers' client"

end>

Not addressing the disorder itself or anyone who has it..... as that would be another thread and one I don't care to engage.

[Ilsa]

47. Your opinion doesn't trump the DSM. nt

[Occulus]

54. Put your forked tongue back in your face.

You said


"There is obvious a total disconnection with this disorder.....social boundaries are completely absent."

then you said

"Not addressing the disorder itself or anyone who has it..... "

Nailed. You're a goddamned liar. And not even a very good one at that.

[mmonk]

17. Generalities are the bible of bigotry.

Bigotry comes from fear of something one is scared of and projects it as a generality on others.

[Squinch]

19. You aren't entitled to spout gross misinformation and not be called out on it.

You're not entitled to be taken seriously when you say assinine and completely erroneous things.

Look up Aspergers and autism, educate yourself, and then have the grace to feel badly about the fact that you voiced your "opinion."

[FarPoint]

22. No

I'm perfectly content

[Shivering Jemmy]

58. Contentment is the balm of ignorance

[Odin2005]

26. I'm autistic, and you are a bigoted jerk.

[FarPoint]

38. Name calling is so.....unnecessary.

Is this a characteristic of one who is autistic? I'm trying to understand.

[Posteritatis]

42. No, it's an accurate description of your perspective on the subject. (nt)

[FarPoint]

45. Name calling is a TOS violation.

but I will forgive the offender. I'm a good soul.

[1monster]

64. Oh puke!

[FarPoint]

65. I love you

[Posteritatis]

31. You're entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts. (nt)

[Spider Jerusalem]

60. You're a moron

and you clearly have no actual understanding of autism in general or indeed any knowledge of this person and what disorders he may or may not have had in particular.

[1monster]

18. You misunderstand the syndrome. Those who have Autism and Apergers DO FEEL EMPATHY

and other emotions, very strongly. They have a problem expressing their feelings, but that doesn't mean they have none. They have boundries and keep to them obsessively.

And it is not determined that the shooter had any form of autism.

[In_The_Wind]

32. You need to get your facts straight about Aspergers before trying to discuss it.

http://www.aspergers.com/aspclin.html

[Ilsa]

66. Just for a clarification, you should know

that Autistics are very much capable of empathy, sometimes more than the average person if they are easily stimulated by the crying (or laughter) of others. Their difficulty usually lies in trying to decipher physical cues such as facial expressions that reveal someone's emotional state. Difficulty understanding doesnt mean they can't or dont want to. High functioning Autistics usually learn this information methodically, such as with picture training cards, not by typical children's social interactions. ("The corners of her lips are turned up. She might be happy.&quot

You could liken it to not understanding a foreign language, but still wanting to understand and communicate.

Even doctors who are not specialists in the field of developmental disabilities don't always understand this.

[limpyhobbler]

6. Piers Morgan Quack Says People With Autism Lack Empathy: ‘Something’s Missing In The Brain’

you may be interested in this

And so it begins. Following a sketchy report that Connecticut school shooter Adam Lanza may have had autism or Asperger’s Syndrome, CNN’s Piers Morgan Tonight booked a so-called expert named Dr. Xavier Amador to come on the air and slur people with autism. Dr. Amador, a media-friendly psychologist (a specialty that does not deal with autism) told Piers Morgan that “a symptom of autism” is that “something’s missing in the brain, a capacity for empathy, for social connection, which leaves the person suffering from this condition prone to serious depression and anxiety.”

Amador, in discussing the possible role of mental illness in this tragedy, pivoted to Lanza’s alleged autism. “With his autism, his roommate Alex Israel mentioned that he chose not to… he preferred to stay alone,” Amador began, referencing an earlier segment with a longtime classmate of Lanza’s. “Well, actually, a symptom of Asperger’s, and this is one report coming out which may or may not be true, is something’s missing in the brain, the capacity for empathy, for social connection, which leaves the person suffering from this condition prone to serious depression and anxiety.”

“And so, they’re fidgety, they’re anxious, they’re depressed, and if they are suicidally depressed…,” he hesitated, before saying the first true thing that came out of his face, ”we don’t know enough. What I am trying to do in agreeing to come here is to ask people to don’t rush to judgment about who this young man is.”

...

via http://www.mediaite.com/tv/piers-morgan-quack-says-people-with-autism-lack-empathy-somethings-missing-in-the-brain/

[mmonk]

23. Piers Morgan has something missing in his.

Piers Moirgan and assholes like him can rot in hell.

[BlueCaliDem]

7. Autistic people have no feelings?!?

I have a son who is mildly autistic so I, anecdotally, know a little bit about autism.

People who have autism are extremely sensitive. Extremely. When people talk to my son, he'll look at them, but then his eyes go haywire. According to the specialists he'd seen in Holland, every time someone he doesn't know (and who makes him nervous) speaks to him, he gets very uncomfortable and nervous, and he experiences tiny (but painful) shocks to his brain that blur out their words and render him incapable of hearing what they're saying. He can't stand loud noises. And whenever he chooses to interact with me, he speaks just above a whisper, barely audible. When I ask him to speak louder, he speaks softer until I'm virtually reading his lips to find out what he wants.

I don't know anything about Asperger's, though, but that woman is wrong. Autistic people are sensitive to the extreme.

[Odin2005]

8. I know, I'm autistic myself. I was just flabergasted at the woman's ignorance!

[ananda]

24. That is true about autistic sensitivity.

Wednesday I was in a class with a couple of autistic middle schoolers. One had earphones to protect him from sound sensititivity.

[Odin2005]

50. I use earplugs sometimes, even in my own apartment.

The building is 40 years old and so the soundproofing sucks and I can hear the people below me talking all the time. Drives me crazy.

[PasadenaTrudy]

53. Couldn't live without my earplugs!

I'm an HSP, and I'm very sensitive to sound. I live in a 98 yr. old apt. bldg. over a catering kitchen!

[FarCenter]

10. A Gunman, Recalled as Intelligent and Shy, Who Left Few Footprints in Life

Adam Lanza did not even appear in his high school yearbook, that of the class of 2010. His spot on the page said, “Camera shy.” Others who graduated that year said they did not believe he had finished school.

Matt Baier, now a junior at the University of Connecticut, and other high school classmates recalled how deeply uncomfortable Mr. Lanza was in social situations.

Several said in separate interviews that it was their understanding that he had a developmental disorder. They said they had been told that the disorder was Asperger’s syndrome, which is considered a high functioning form of autism.

“It’s not like people picked on him for it,” Mr. Baier said. “From what I saw, people just let him be, and that was that.”

Law enforcement officials said Friday that they were closely examining whether Mr. Lanza had such a disorder.

One former classmate who said he was familiar with the disorder described Mr. Lanza as having a “very flat affect,” adding, “If you looked at him, you couldn’t see any emotions going through his head.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/adam-lanza-an-enigma-who-is-now-identified-as-a-mass-killer.html?_r=0

[hunter]

34. Sounds like me. I dodged every picture day, was deeply uncomfortable in social situations...

... and skipped my senior year of high school.

I was asked to leave college twice. The local police knew my name and would take me home when they found me out wandering in the wee hours of the morning. So far as I can tell I was a pleasant diversion from the drunks and domestic violence cases that were the bulk of their work. My college roommates could probably tell stories about me, how strange I was.

I confess I was a danger to myself a few times, rock climbing, hiking in the desert, or swimming in the ocean at night alone, and other things like that, but I've never been a danger to others.

These stereotypes of mentally ill mass murderers are harmful to a group of people who are mostly harmless and more likely to be victims of violence themselves than the average person.

[FarCenter]

40. Maybe no one tried to cure you, put you on powerful meds?

[hunter]

49. I had a rather feral childhood.

My parents had a lot of kids and my mom was often occupied keeping her crazy mother out of trouble. My grandma was essentially a mean old bag lady with a house and a pension. Eventually the police and paramedics had to remove her from her home because she was a hoarder, a 5150 frequent flier, and someone who often disturbed the peace. After my grandma was removed from her home she mostly lived with us because no assisted living place would take her for long. In comparison to my grandma's insanity my own mental health issues were mild.

When I was in college (I was a freshman in 1976) medicines didn't work well and had worse side effects than the meds of today. Furthermore nobody wanted to saddle me with the stigma of having a mental health problem. Both times when I was "asked" to take time off from college no formal records were kept so far as I know. Maybe nobody had to write anything down because nobody was going to forget me. But I remember sitting in the Dean's office and the threat was very clear that I would be expelled permanently if I didn't agree to leave and come back when I got my head together.

I'm pretty sure there's no "cure" for my mental health issues just as there's no cure for my asthma. I've tried a few alternative therapies, they haven't worked. I've quit meds cold turkey because I didn't like the side effects. (Warning to others: DO NOT DO THIS!) I've learned by hard experience the best I can do is manage both medical problems with "powerful meds."

We don't know what went wrong with this kid. It's probably some kind of cascading failure. His access to guns, whatever professional help he did or didn't get, whatever meds he was or wasn't taking, whatever the family dynamics were, and the culture he grew up in, these were all part of that cascade.

[Taverner]

11. You're in far more danger from a Neurotypical than you are from an Aspie

Seriously - every Aspie I know would consciously AVOID situations like this.

They retreat within, not act out...

[dawg]

16. I agree.

Autistics can get overstimulated and overwhelmed. I have seen them hurl whatever is near at hand in the general direction of another person who was frustrating them. But this sort of premeditated, calculated aggression is not typical of people on the spectrum.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. She misheard

What's been reported is that Adam had a syndrome where he could not feel physical pain, so young people recall having to be careful that he did not fall since he could get hurt and not feel it.

Depression has come up. Above average intelligence, inability to feel pain (I will have to research that one) but Aspergers/autism, not so much. At least not at msnbc.

[FarCenter]

20. Charlie Rose Brain Series 2 Episode 11: Pain

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12670?sponsor_id=1

The Charlie Rose Brain series are terrific. I believe that this episode is the one that mentions the condition where some people are unable to feel pain -- it is sort of like being blind or deaf, but with respect to the specific parts of the nevous system that sense pain.

IIRC, the system for pain reception is different from the system for touch -- so it is in fact a different sense.

Sorry that I can't recall where in the 60 minutes that was discussed.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12514 is Series 2 Episode 6 on Autism.

[TorchTheWitch]

25. unfortunately, she didn't mishear

Someone connected to the case was stupid enough to speculate to the media that he likely had either Aspergers or a personality disorder having no idea what the hell was mentally wrong with him. The tv talkers are letting all kinds of people with extremely little knowledge of him or the family speculate about why he did this and what was wrong with him. These ridiculous "journalists" have been all over the map on everything about this case. Even the people who knew him have opposite views concerning what he was like with some saying he was very smart, shy and a loner while others say he was scary insane.

[FarCenter]

28. A lot of the information about his prior behavior is coming from his high school classmates

Since high school he may not have had many community associations.

[SheilaT]

14. I likewise have a son with autism,

with Asperger's specifically.

What people like that don't have is the ability to readily show their feelings. They have what psychologists call a "flat aspect", meaning they have a very wooden facial expression most of the time, even though they are feeling what anyone else feels.

Here's a trivial example. Whey my Aspie son was about four (and this was 14 years before we learned he actually was mildly autistic), we were at a little kiddie amusement park. I had him on one of the rides and was watching him and it was clear to me that he was having a great time. Some other mothers nearby commented softly that it was too bad he wasn't enjoying himself. I was shocked, because it was completely obvious to me that he was. But I was his mother, so I knew him well enough to catch the very subtle body language clues he was giving out, which are totally unlike those of a "normal" child. Heck, I even have photographs from that day, and just looking at them I can tell he's enjoying himself. What anyone else would see is a somewhat solemn expression.

I'm sure it is quite possible for someone to have Asperger's and also some other sort of disorder or mental illness, and that someone might just go off on a rampage as happened yesterday. My son has Asperger's and an auto-immune disorder called alopecia areata which causes hair loss. He's been totally bald since he was four years old. It has nothing to do with the Asperger's. Sometimes more than one condition can occur in the same person.

[Barack_America]

29. .

Just as an FYI, the term is actually "flat affect".

More importantly, I'm glad your son has such a wonderful and perceptive woman as his mother and advocate.

[HappyMe]

15. Good grief!

They couldn't get the guys name right yesterday, or establish if mom was in a classroom or not.

We probably aren't going to have any concrete, reliable facts for a couple of days. Don't let ignorant jackasses bother you.

[gordianot]

30. It does seem to be the label of choice today, a decade ago he would have been ADD.

Media seems oblivious to the damage the do in reporting. I am a retired Psychological Examiner.

[Posteritatis]

33. Isn't the now-standard "anything slightly odd about this guy is The Problem" thing great?

I heard a brief mention on the news last night where people were implying some absurdity about the danger of introverts. While that's a common thing to FUD about in the first place, I'm sort of impressed that they seem to think the whole "the mentally ill Need To Be Stopped" schtick is somehow not a dumb enough obsession.

[csziggy]

35. Some news sources said his brother claimed that

Considering how much about this story is unknown and the inaccurate reporting yesterday, I don't know if it is true that the brother said that or if the shooter really had been diagnosed as autistic.

Frankly I doubt the last. Violence is not a part of autism. If the shooter had been diagnosed as such, the diagnosis was probably wrong, IMO.

I hope there is clarification and I hope this incident leads to an examination not only of gun laws but of how mental health treatment is handled in this country.

I find several blogs that claim ABC News was the source for the autism claim but do not find the original ABC story.

[spanone]

37. m$nbc is currently speculating on him having autism or aspergers....when NO ONE knows the truth

that's our media

[loyalsister]

39. I was LIVID when I heard that on MSNBC

The first thing they say before getting any facts about the motivation. They talk about it as if a mental illness or Autism is a stand alone satisfactory explanation.

[sakabatou]

46. Not having feelings?!

That woman's a dumbass! I'm an autistic man who has had a steady relationship with another woman for over 5 years.

[Odin2005]

51. Yup, as an autistic adult myself I was really offended.

But I wasn't going to get into an argument with a stranger at a restaurant, so I bit my tongue.

[Renew Deal]

56. I heard he was autistic on CNN this morning.

Don't know if that's true.

[csziggy]

57. Here is an article with more information about Adam Lanza

Interviews with former classmates, teachers, etc.

Adam Lanza: A 'Quiet, Odd' Loner Living On The Fringes
y JOSH KOVNER and EDMUND H. MAHONY, [e-mail] The Hartford Courant

9:05 p.m. EST, December 15, 2012

He was a loner, a 20-year-old whom Newtown High School classmates remembered as a skinny, shaggy-haired boy "who never really talked at all" and who stayed tight to the corridor walls when he walked, often clutching his laptop.

There was a common refrain among acquaintances of Adam Lanza: I knew of him but I didn't know him.

<SNIP>

The sources said investigators believe Adam Lanza's isolation and social awkwardness were consistent with Asperger's syndrome. Asperger's is a disorder that is part of the autism spectrum. It is marked by difficulty with social interaction. Many with Asperger's are otherwise high-functioning people. There is no pre-disposition toward violence, experts said.

"It's very important for people to know that there is absolutely no correlation between the diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome and a predilection toward violent behavior,'' said Dr. Harold Schwartz, chief psychiatrist at the Institute of Living in Hartford.

More: http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-adam-lanza-newtown-shooting-1216-20121215,0,3527180,full.story

[KamaAina]

59. So was Seung Cho at Virginia Tech. Or not.

Some journalist* in Australia got hold of a distant relative of Cho's in South Korea, who said he had autism. The rest of the M$M ran with it like they had the baton in the last leg of the Olympic 4x400 relay.

Turns out he had been evaluated for autism when he was eight. And it had been ruled out.

[jillan]

61. People are so ignorant, unbelievably ignorant.

[TexasBushwhacker]

62. Having an autistic spectrum disorder doesn't exclude having another psychiatric problem

Violence is not common in the autistic but it's not unheard of either. Here is an article by a mother of a violent autistic son.

http://www.salon.com/2009/03/26/bauer_autism/

[adigal]

63. I have taught lots of autistic kids and some with Aspergers

And stating that someone with autism could NEVER do something like this is not a valid argument, although I do understand the emotion behind your arguments. In my experience, most of the students I have had who have autism don't connect with other people. They also have a lot of trouble with social mores and boundaries, and I have had a couple of very explosive autistic students. Having said that, none of them were ever violent, but one kid would yell out during class,that he would want to kill x, y and z. I never felt he was dangerous, however.

I just hate to see you all piling up on someone who gave a different perspective. There is so much we don't know about the human brain, and what any of us are capable of. Please. Peace.