General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHe killed those children with the long weapon - the rifle
the fucking Bushmaster...three to seven wounds each.
Fuck that fucking moron!!
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)mikeysnot
(4,757 posts)The highest love, a woman's touch
Harmony, a strong mind, a strong body
Beauty all the things he couldn't be,
All the things he couldn't have.
Little man with a gun in his hand
D. Boon, Minutemen 1983
MFM008
(19,818 posts)that is a weapon favored by SEALS / special forces. I dreamed last night I was in school again, I witnessed a shooting and spent the rest of the dream running from the killers.
Baitball Blogger
(46,737 posts)My husband saw a picture of it on the t.v. and gasped, "Why the hell does an ordinary person need something like that? Why do they allow it?"
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)It must be. Why can't guns rights be limited to the ones that shoot a single bullet for each pull of the trigger and magazines of 8? The 2nd amendment doesn't say you have the right to an AK47 or a nuclear bomb. It's time to get a grip.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)is a semi-automatic. Guns that fire more per trigger pull are already pretty much illegal.
Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)In a pinch, a rubber band works....
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)Many semi-automatics are easily modified to be fully automatic.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)but I do live in a neighborhood with periodic gun violence. I heard one drive by shooting and it appeared to me it was semi-automatic, and that's what I told 911. There was no pause between bullets. The thing must have had a very quick trigger. I don't know how to define this stuff, but too many guns shoot too many rounds too quickly.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)There's a sizable pile of lever-action or pump-action firearms out there, but semiauto is more or less the default for anything made a decade or two into the postwar era.
Drahthaardogs
(6,843 posts)Almost no one uses semi-automatic long guns for various reasons, but the main is that their accuracy lacks when compared to long guns. The other is that longer chambered cartridges do not work well in an semi auto action. Show up at elk camp with a semi-automatic and watch everyone laugh at you. Bolt action and lever action rifles are the norm. Pump action shotguns are the most popular among hunters.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)You still pull the trigger and hold it back.
The trigger is physically pulled for each and every round fired. The recoil as the stock slides releases the finger pull and as you are pulling the weapon back at all times, you squeeze off another round.
100% legal and certified by the BATF as legal.
RC
(25,592 posts)How does a slide stock not make it a fully automatic weapon? It looks like one. It acts like one. It is firing like one. How is it not a fully automatic weapon with the use of a slide stock?
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)You physically pull the trigger for every round fired with a sliding stock. An automatic weapon requires you pull the trigger once for each round fired.
It's the federal definition of what constitutes a semi-automatic weapon vs. an automaitc weapon and the ATF has fully blessed the above as semi-automatic weapons.
tridim
(45,358 posts)It is direct marketing to gun nuts.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Based upon the coroner's report, I would not be surprised. You can be damned accurate bump firing an AR-15 if oyu are using a slide stock to do it.
Logical
(22,457 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)This can't be a hunting rifle to kill so many children so quickly with so many bullets.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)It would not be logistically difficult to kill a large amount of defenseless five year olds in a confined space in a few minutes with any kind of gun, or a baseball bat for that matter.
malaise
(269,059 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)it took for the entire crime to take place. Right now we don't know whether it was two minutes or twenty minutes.
And that six rounds per second figure is for a fully-automatic. We don't know if the long gun was full or semi automatic.
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)and they would be illegal as hell. Since it was registered, its should be semi auto
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)BATF can mandate design changes to prevent if from being converted readily
There are bump fire and cranks in addition to illegal mods. Rare, inaccurate, and PITAs to use.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)what a load of crap.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)I also don't think they make any vido games about killing people with baseball bats.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)And they are very efficient and doing exactly what they are designed for: killing.
AldoLeopold
(617 posts)There's some debate about what weapons he used - the Gun nutters are touting the pistols theory, which I don't buy, but I could be wrong.
Need links.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)AldoLeopold
(617 posts)malaise
(269,059 posts)Junkdrawer
(27,993 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)All children killed were 1st graders shot 3-7 times each with the rifle only.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)I wonder why it took this long for that info to be made public. I wonder if he divulged something he wasn't supposed to, due to it hampering an investigation.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)kids were wearing. What the hell?
Gin
(7,212 posts)Shocked to hear he used the long gun.......
RIP all you little boys and girls and teachers......peace to all those left behind.
sammytko
(2,480 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Totally inappropriate. That guy should never be on camera again. Did you catch the remark about "mark your calendars, because during 31 years in the profession and 26 as the chief medical examiner, this is only my second press conference". Dude, we don't fucking care. This is a press conference largely about dead children.
jsr
(7,712 posts)or some such.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)In the beginning it was in the car.
He went hunting...
malaise
(269,059 posts)M$Greedia really fugged up royally with misinformation
The Bushmaster was the primary weapon - fuck the NRA.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)RIP talking points, until next time.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)With so many conflicting reports in the news media, I think I'll just wait for the official coroner's report...
Azathoth
(4,610 posts)to kill himself? Something doesn't add up here.
malaise
(269,059 posts)Lots of bad information is out there - we'll eventually hear the facts.
I mean we're now hearing the mother was not on the staff of the school - certainly not permanent staff.
Azathoth
(4,610 posts)In the past, rumors like the "trench coat mafia" got picked up and publicized, but this is utterly insane.
malaise
(269,059 posts)It's all about breaking the news even if it's completely inaccurate.
Mr.Bill
(24,303 posts)may have been witheld due to an investigation of where the guns and ammo were purchased. I still think the Medical Examiner said something he shouldn't have yet.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Our nooze media sucks, big time. What a disgrace.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)he had four weapons-3 on him in the school (2 pitols and a rifle) and a rifle in the car. Can count on any of this though til the official report comes out. Yesterday the mother was a teacher, today I'm hearing it's not known what if any occupation she had.
spanone
(135,844 posts)malaise
(269,059 posts)than the speed of lightning.
DainBramaged
(39,191 posts)Too bad we can't send it down the tracks
malaise
(269,059 posts)Their entire ideological package is going down. Maybe we can drown them in Grover's bathtub.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... and the psychos were quite adamant that he used the handguns and that somehow made it better.
Azathoth
(4,610 posts)kwassa
(23,340 posts)Bushmaster Firearms Inc. of Windham, Maine, has agreed to pay $550,000 and Bulls Eye Shooter Supply of Tacoma, Wash. has agreed to pay $2 million to settle families lawsuits over the 2002 D.C. sniper shootings (see Jul. 1, 2003). Dennis Henigan of the gun-control-through-litigation Brady Campaign was the lawyer representing the families. Authorities believe that Malvo shoplifted the rifle from Bulls Eye, where he and Muhammad had been seen checking out the Bushmaster that later disappeared. The Bradyites theory was that the killings were the gun stores fault because it lost too many guns, and the manufacturers fault because it did not cut off the gun store for losing too many guns. Henigan crowed that the settlement represented the first-ever payment by a manufacturer over charges of negligent distribution and the biggest-ever payment by a distributor.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)Everything is so confusing right now, I thought maybe the reports of the shell casings were a mistake because the media said they found a .223 rifle in the car.
malaise
(269,059 posts)He was hunting human beings - little children.
Fuck that fucking moron.
Lone_Star_Dem
(28,158 posts)Even if I can't quite wrap my mind around it, you're correct.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)The poor parents or family that have to identify those little kids. I can't stand to think about it!
Lex
(34,108 posts)as far as I understand it, only 3 ambulances went to the hospital from the scene
malaise
(269,059 posts)looking forward to Christmas -way too sad
marlakay
(11,476 posts)jsr
(7,712 posts)Gin
(7,212 posts)malaise
(269,059 posts)2naSalit
(86,650 posts)as I could about the incident and all I could find were spotty bits of comments made by officials, some of which is wrong info left over from yesterday. It seems that the shooting must have taken a good twenty minutes or so given that one teacher, at least, was able to get her class into a safe place and read them a story during the shooting. It also seems that the shooter may have gone back out to his vehicle and put the rifle in the car's trunk before dispatching himself since there was only the one rifle mentioned and two pistols. It would appear that he used to pistol on himself since the pistols were found in the school but all the victims were shot with the rifle, according to the ME, and all had at least three wounds each. So whatever the capability of the rifle, he was able to get several rounds into each victim... all without anyone being able to stop him. Those who did try to stop him were said to have lunged at him, that being the principal and the psychologist who both were killed in the action.
Now this perp had had target practice sessions with his mom and seems to have been pretty familiar with the guns. According to reports to date, she was quite an enthusiast and had a small arsenal in her home.
Given that the rifle was found in the car, according to all the reports so far, he must have gone back to the car at some point and may have returned to the building since his body was found inside.
I have personally fired automatic and semi automatic firearms and I do know that there is a "trigger set" to accommodate the amount of pressure that would be needed to induce the firing action... and some of those were pretty hard to fire a single round at a time with. The rifle is a much easier thing to use for accuracy so it is probably why that was used on all but himself.
What I don't get is why this 20 year old was dealing with an elementary school that his mother never worked at and what a possible altercation there could have been about. One report claims his mother took him out of the public schools because she didn't like something about their "plans for him". The mother may have been a problem...? But if he was 20... the whole thing sounds incomprehensible... could he have been seeking a job there...?
Sorry if this sounds too gruesome for many, I'm sure it is and I found it hard to get through all those reports as I was in tears but the conversation about the kind of guns used at the scene, their capabilities and on whom they were used was getting to me. Being somewhat experienced in the use of a variety of firearms, I thought I would go looking for facts and try to reason out some of the gaps in the stories. This is what I have come to find so far.
Personal disclaimer: Once upon a time, decades ago, I was married to a gun enthusiast but left them for reasons related to their guns, and though they bought some for me which I still have, they haven't been out of the locked case in years. I am not a member nor a fan of the NRA and don't have much to do with folks who actively use their guns... because I don't approve of the gun culture we now have in this country. I would sell the guns, I could use the money, except that if I sell them they won't be out of use/retired. So they stay in the locked place where they aren't given much thought and haven't seen daylight in a number of years. About once in ten years I might pull them out to look at and to remind myself why I don't use them even for target practice.