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He killed those children with the long weapon - the rifle (Original Post) malaise Dec 2012 OP
Jesus BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #1
Little man with a gun in his hand. mikeysnot Dec 2012 #2
my son says MFM008 Dec 2012 #3
It's funny what it takes to wake some people up. Baitball Blogger Dec 2012 #49
is that semi-automatic? BainsBane Dec 2012 #4
One bullet per trigger pull Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #8
Bump Stocks and Tech Triggers are freely available.... Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #14
You are correct Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #29
Okay I know squat about this BainsBane Dec 2012 #19
A typical civilian firearm pretty much anywhere is semiautomatic. Posteritatis Dec 2012 #26
No, not for long guns. Drahthaardogs Dec 2012 #47
Yeah, because you cannot get firing rates similar to automatic weapons out of a semi-automatic. RomneyLies Dec 2012 #20
How does a slide stock not make it a fully automatic weapon? RC Dec 2012 #45
Wrong RomneyLies Dec 2012 #50
You did not answer my question. RC Dec 2012 #68
It does NOT act like one. RomneyLies Dec 2012 #70
It's "ATF Approved". This video makes me feel like throwing up. tridim Dec 2012 #56
I want to know if Lanza's .223 had a slide stock. RomneyLies Dec 2012 #62
That is what this gun does. One pull one bullet. Logical Dec 2012 #15
how many bullets does it hold? BainsBane Dec 2012 #22
I am sure it was a extended clip. Maybe 30. I agree, no need for that many bullets. Logical Dec 2012 #31
We don't know how quickly it was. Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #33
six bullets per second n/t malaise Dec 2012 #35
I was referring to the time Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #39
Bushmaster never made full autos ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #43
Could it have been modified to be full-auto? n/t Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #54
Not readily ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #60
Good info. Thanks. n/t Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #61
Is a lie... ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #42
Really? So why don't we have mass attacks with baseball bats? BainsBane Dec 2012 #46
Because guns are so easy to get your hands on. Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #52
Exactly BainsBane Dec 2012 #65
Links? AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #5
It just came over the air nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #10
Drat I don't have TV AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #18
Watching the live press conference on M$NBComcast n/t malaise Dec 2012 #12
LBN Thread.... Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #27
Straight from the coroner's office. JimDandy Dec 2012 #73
Yes, watching the press conference with the Medical Examiner now. Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #6
Some monumental asshole asked what the sufrommich Dec 2012 #7
The ME was an odd guy....maybe the nature of the job attracts odd people (IMO) Gin Dec 2012 #16
I only caught a few minutes, but yes, seemed odd to me also n/t sammytko Dec 2012 #34
He made me cringe dorkzilla Dec 2012 #38
He wanted to resign and take a staff position, but they wouldn't let him jsr Dec 2012 #69
So now we know he used the .223 nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #9
Yep and we also know that there was no connection with the mother to the school malaise Dec 2012 #25
Well, no pun, several talking points died at the same time. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #55
Well, maybe. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #53
So he massacred everyone, then walked outside, locked the rifle in his car, and then went back in Azathoth Dec 2012 #11
I got the impression that he had more than one rifle malaise Dec 2012 #17
This has to be the worst reported tragedy I've ever seen Azathoth Dec 2012 #24
I agree - M$Greedia hasn't learned a damned thing malaise Dec 2012 #28
Exact information Mr.Bill Dec 2012 #37
Agreed. Their reporting has been atrocious. City Lights Dec 2012 #59
The latest now is JimDandy Dec 2012 #74
can't be, i read several times on d.u. that he didn't use a rifle, can't possibly be true. spanone Dec 2012 #13
Well we both know that the NRA hacks move in here faster malaise Dec 2012 #21
That hack train has just pulled into the station my friend DainBramaged Dec 2012 #40
We will malaise Dec 2012 #64
Me too... 99Forever Dec 2012 #23
You might have read that because little sources like the Associated Press reported it n/t Azathoth Dec 2012 #32
A Bushmaster was used in the DC sniper shootings, and Bushmaster paid for it. kwassa Dec 2012 #30
That explains the reports of the police finding .223 shell casings on the scene yesterday. Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #36
He had two rifles malaise Dec 2012 #41
Yes, that's exactly what he was doing. Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #44
God! How awful! That explains why it will take so long to identify the children. Auntie Bush Dec 2012 #48
and why not many ambulances were called Lex Dec 2012 #51
And all were between six and seven years old malaise Dec 2012 #63
I read in ny times they did it with pictures. Nt marlakay Dec 2012 #72
Cold-blooded executions jsr Dec 2012 #57
How does one kill himself with a long gun? Put the barrel in his mouth? Gin Dec 2012 #58
He had pistols jsr Dec 2012 #66
I'm betting he killed himself with the glock n/t malaise Dec 2012 #67
I just finished reading as many reports 2naSalit Dec 2012 #71

mikeysnot

(4,757 posts)
2. Little man with a gun in his hand.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:43 PM
Dec 2012

The highest love, a woman's touch
Harmony, a strong mind, a strong body
Beauty all the things he couldn't be,
All the things he couldn't have.
Little man with a gun in his hand

D. Boon, Minutemen 1983

MFM008

(19,818 posts)
3. my son says
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:45 PM
Dec 2012

that is a weapon favored by SEALS / special forces. I dreamed last night I was in school again, I witnessed a shooting and spent the rest of the dream running from the killers.

Baitball Blogger

(46,737 posts)
49. It's funny what it takes to wake some people up.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:20 PM
Dec 2012

My husband saw a picture of it on the t.v. and gasped, "Why the hell does an ordinary person need something like that? Why do they allow it?"

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
4. is that semi-automatic?
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:45 PM
Dec 2012

It must be. Why can't guns rights be limited to the ones that shoot a single bullet for each pull of the trigger and magazines of 8? The 2nd amendment doesn't say you have the right to an AK47 or a nuclear bomb. It's time to get a grip.

Mr.Bill

(24,303 posts)
8. One bullet per trigger pull
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:49 PM
Dec 2012

is a semi-automatic. Guns that fire more per trigger pull are already pretty much illegal.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
19. Okay I know squat about this
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:52 PM
Dec 2012

but I do live in a neighborhood with periodic gun violence. I heard one drive by shooting and it appeared to me it was semi-automatic, and that's what I told 911. There was no pause between bullets. The thing must have had a very quick trigger. I don't know how to define this stuff, but too many guns shoot too many rounds too quickly.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
26. A typical civilian firearm pretty much anywhere is semiautomatic.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:56 PM
Dec 2012

There's a sizable pile of lever-action or pump-action firearms out there, but semiauto is more or less the default for anything made a decade or two into the postwar era.

Drahthaardogs

(6,843 posts)
47. No, not for long guns.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:20 PM
Dec 2012

Almost no one uses semi-automatic long guns for various reasons, but the main is that their accuracy lacks when compared to long guns. The other is that longer chambered cartridges do not work well in an semi auto action. Show up at elk camp with a semi-automatic and watch everyone laugh at you. Bolt action and lever action rifles are the norm. Pump action shotguns are the most popular among hunters.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
45. How does a slide stock not make it a fully automatic weapon?
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:17 PM
Dec 2012

You still pull the trigger and hold it back.

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
50. Wrong
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:21 PM
Dec 2012

The trigger is physically pulled for each and every round fired. The recoil as the stock slides releases the finger pull and as you are pulling the weapon back at all times, you squeeze off another round.

100% legal and certified by the BATF as legal.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
68. You did not answer my question.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:45 PM
Dec 2012

How does a slide stock not make it a fully automatic weapon? It looks like one. It acts like one. It is firing like one. How is it not a fully automatic weapon with the use of a slide stock?

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
70. It does NOT act like one.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:55 PM
Dec 2012

You physically pull the trigger for every round fired with a sliding stock. An automatic weapon requires you pull the trigger once for each round fired.

It's the federal definition of what constitutes a semi-automatic weapon vs. an automaitc weapon and the ATF has fully blessed the above as semi-automatic weapons.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
56. It's "ATF Approved". This video makes me feel like throwing up.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:32 PM
Dec 2012

It is direct marketing to gun nuts.

 

RomneyLies

(3,333 posts)
62. I want to know if Lanza's .223 had a slide stock.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:38 PM
Dec 2012

Based upon the coroner's report, I would not be surprised. You can be damned accurate bump firing an AR-15 if oyu are using a slide stock to do it.

BainsBane

(53,035 posts)
22. how many bullets does it hold?
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:53 PM
Dec 2012

This can't be a hunting rifle to kill so many children so quickly with so many bullets.

Mr.Bill

(24,303 posts)
33. We don't know how quickly it was.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:03 PM
Dec 2012

It would not be logistically difficult to kill a large amount of defenseless five year olds in a confined space in a few minutes with any kind of gun, or a baseball bat for that matter.

Mr.Bill

(24,303 posts)
39. I was referring to the time
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:09 PM
Dec 2012

it took for the entire crime to take place. Right now we don't know whether it was two minutes or twenty minutes.

And that six rounds per second figure is for a fully-automatic. We don't know if the long gun was full or semi automatic.

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
43. Bushmaster never made full autos
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:16 PM
Dec 2012

and they would be illegal as hell. Since it was registered, its should be semi auto

ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)
60. Not readily
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:36 PM
Dec 2012

BATF can mandate design changes to prevent if from being converted readily

There are bump fire and cranks in addition to illegal mods. Rare, inaccurate, and PITAs to use.

Mr.Bill

(24,303 posts)
52. Because guns are so easy to get your hands on.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:23 PM
Dec 2012

I also don't think they make any vido games about killing people with baseball bats.

 

AldoLeopold

(617 posts)
5. Links?
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:46 PM
Dec 2012

There's some debate about what weapons he used - the Gun nutters are touting the pistols theory, which I don't buy, but I could be wrong.

Need links.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
73. Straight from the coroner's office.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 08:58 PM
Dec 2012

All children killed were 1st graders shot 3-7 times each with the rifle only.

Mr.Bill

(24,303 posts)
6. Yes, watching the press conference with the Medical Examiner now.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:46 PM
Dec 2012

I wonder why it took this long for that info to be made public. I wonder if he divulged something he wasn't supposed to, due to it hampering an investigation.

Gin

(7,212 posts)
16. The ME was an odd guy....maybe the nature of the job attracts odd people (IMO)
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:52 PM
Dec 2012

Shocked to hear he used the long gun.......

RIP all you little boys and girls and teachers......peace to all those left behind.

dorkzilla

(5,141 posts)
38. He made me cringe
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:07 PM
Dec 2012

Totally inappropriate. That guy should never be on camera again. Did you catch the remark about "mark your calendars, because during 31 years in the profession and 26 as the chief medical examiner, this is only my second press conference". Dude, we don't fucking care. This is a press conference largely about dead children.

malaise

(269,059 posts)
25. Yep and we also know that there was no connection with the mother to the school
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:54 PM
Dec 2012

M$Greedia really fugged up royally with misinformation
The Bushmaster was the primary weapon - fuck the NRA.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
53. Well, maybe.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:24 PM
Dec 2012

With so many conflicting reports in the news media, I think I'll just wait for the official coroner's report...

Azathoth

(4,610 posts)
11. So he massacred everyone, then walked outside, locked the rifle in his car, and then went back in
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:50 PM
Dec 2012

to kill himself? Something doesn't add up here.

malaise

(269,059 posts)
17. I got the impression that he had more than one rifle
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:52 PM
Dec 2012

Lots of bad information is out there - we'll eventually hear the facts.
I mean we're now hearing the mother was not on the staff of the school - certainly not permanent staff.

Azathoth

(4,610 posts)
24. This has to be the worst reported tragedy I've ever seen
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:54 PM
Dec 2012

In the past, rumors like the "trench coat mafia" got picked up and publicized, but this is utterly insane.

malaise

(269,059 posts)
28. I agree - M$Greedia hasn't learned a damned thing
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:57 PM
Dec 2012

It's all about breaking the news even if it's completely inaccurate.

Mr.Bill

(24,303 posts)
37. Exact information
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:06 PM
Dec 2012

may have been witheld due to an investigation of where the guns and ammo were purchased. I still think the Medical Examiner said something he shouldn't have yet.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
74. The latest now is
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:15 PM
Dec 2012

he had four weapons-3 on him in the school (2 pitols and a rifle) and a rifle in the car. Can count on any of this though til the official report comes out. Yesterday the mother was a teacher, today I'm hearing it's not known what if any occupation she had.

spanone

(135,844 posts)
13. can't be, i read several times on d.u. that he didn't use a rifle, can't possibly be true.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:51 PM
Dec 2012
Grrrrrrrr

malaise

(269,059 posts)
64. We will
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:40 PM
Dec 2012

Their entire ideological package is going down. Maybe we can drown them in Grover's bathtub.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
23. Me too...
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:54 PM
Dec 2012

... and the psychos were quite adamant that he used the handguns and that somehow made it better.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
30. A Bushmaster was used in the DC sniper shootings, and Bushmaster paid for it.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:00 PM
Dec 2012
http://overlawyered.com/2004/09/bushmaster-settles-dc-sniper-case/

Bushmaster Firearms Inc. of Windham, Maine, has agreed to pay $550,000 and Bull’s Eye Shooter Supply of Tacoma, Wash. has agreed to pay $2 million to settle families’ lawsuits over the 2002 D.C. sniper shootings (see Jul. 1, 2003). Dennis Henigan of the gun-control-through-litigation Brady Campaign was the lawyer representing the families. “Authorities believe that Malvo shoplifted the rifle from Bull’s Eye, where he and Muhammad had been seen checking out the Bushmaster that later disappeared.” The Bradyites’ theory was that the killings were the gun store’s fault because it lost too many guns, and the manufacturer’s fault because it did not cut off the gun store for losing too many guns. Henigan crowed that the settlement represented the first-ever payment by a manufacturer over charges of negligent distribution and the biggest-ever payment by a distributor.

Lone_Star_Dem

(28,158 posts)
36. That explains the reports of the police finding .223 shell casings on the scene yesterday.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:06 PM
Dec 2012

Everything is so confusing right now, I thought maybe the reports of the shell casings were a mistake because the media said they found a .223 rifle in the car.

Lone_Star_Dem

(28,158 posts)
44. Yes, that's exactly what he was doing.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:17 PM
Dec 2012

Even if I can't quite wrap my mind around it, you're correct.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
48. God! How awful! That explains why it will take so long to identify the children.
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:20 PM
Dec 2012

The poor parents or family that have to identify those little kids. I can't stand to think about it!

Lex

(34,108 posts)
51. and why not many ambulances were called
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:21 PM
Dec 2012

as far as I understand it, only 3 ambulances went to the hospital from the scene



2naSalit

(86,650 posts)
71. I just finished reading as many reports
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 07:47 PM
Dec 2012

as I could about the incident and all I could find were spotty bits of comments made by officials, some of which is wrong info left over from yesterday. It seems that the shooting must have taken a good twenty minutes or so given that one teacher, at least, was able to get her class into a safe place and read them a story during the shooting. It also seems that the shooter may have gone back out to his vehicle and put the rifle in the car's trunk before dispatching himself since there was only the one rifle mentioned and two pistols. It would appear that he used to pistol on himself since the pistols were found in the school but all the victims were shot with the rifle, according to the ME, and all had at least three wounds each. So whatever the capability of the rifle, he was able to get several rounds into each victim... all without anyone being able to stop him. Those who did try to stop him were said to have lunged at him, that being the principal and the psychologist who both were killed in the action.

Now this perp had had target practice sessions with his mom and seems to have been pretty familiar with the guns. According to reports to date, she was quite an enthusiast and had a small arsenal in her home.

Given that the rifle was found in the car, according to all the reports so far, he must have gone back to the car at some point and may have returned to the building since his body was found inside.

I have personally fired automatic and semi automatic firearms and I do know that there is a "trigger set" to accommodate the amount of pressure that would be needed to induce the firing action... and some of those were pretty hard to fire a single round at a time with. The rifle is a much easier thing to use for accuracy so it is probably why that was used on all but himself.

What I don't get is why this 20 year old was dealing with an elementary school that his mother never worked at and what a possible altercation there could have been about. One report claims his mother took him out of the public schools because she didn't like something about their "plans for him". The mother may have been a problem...? But if he was 20... the whole thing sounds incomprehensible... could he have been seeking a job there...?

Sorry if this sounds too gruesome for many, I'm sure it is and I found it hard to get through all those reports as I was in tears but the conversation about the kind of guns used at the scene, their capabilities and on whom they were used was getting to me. Being somewhat experienced in the use of a variety of firearms, I thought I would go looking for facts and try to reason out some of the gaps in the stories. This is what I have come to find so far.

Personal disclaimer: Once upon a time, decades ago, I was married to a gun enthusiast but left them for reasons related to their guns, and though they bought some for me which I still have, they haven't been out of the locked case in years. I am not a member nor a fan of the NRA and don't have much to do with folks who actively use their guns... because I don't approve of the gun culture we now have in this country. I would sell the guns, I could use the money, except that if I sell them they won't be out of use/retired. So they stay in the locked place where they aren't given much thought and haven't seen daylight in a number of years. About once in ten years I might pull them out to look at and to remind myself why I don't use them even for target practice.

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