We need a deal on the budget

[BrentWil]

We need a deal on the budget. It should be the best deal possible, but there needs to be a deal. The economy is getting ready to go to Greek like measures with taxes and spending. That will crush the economic recovery and the poor and middle class will feel the pain more than anyone. When you add to the fact that the debt ceiling is coming down the road, we are in trouble.

We have the Senate and the Presidency. The only reason Obama won is because the other side is shit crazy. Economic times are still weaj. The economy crashing will bring our party down and make 2014 a great year for the GOP. This is a very scarry environment because the insane could come to real power. While changing the inflation rate of SS(for example) sucks, the alternative is much worse.

In sum, Obama should get the best deal he can, but in the end he needs to close a deal.

[kentuck]

1. No we don't.

As soon as they go over the cliff, the stock market will go up and they will be saying that the prospect of reducing the deficit was stronger than the perceived drag on the economy. It's all a frigging game.

[BrentWil]

2. That why it went higher today on the hint of a deal?

[kentuck]

6. That's the excuse of the day.

Every day is different, if you have noticed. The only thing that might bring down the market would be if they were to tax stock trades?

[RomneyLies]

3. Nope, we need to let it all hit.

Polls demonstrate clearly, if it happens, the public will blame the GOP.

Then we'll be able to get an even better deal.

[BrentWil]

7. Polls now do

The President and his party have historically always taken the blame for economic downturns. Don't get blinded by polls today as this will play out.

[RomneyLies]

10. Fuck that, let's go over the cliff.

I'm not going to hide behind the fucking couch on fear over the future like Democrats do time after time. The here and now says this is the GOP's problem. They are unwilling to be reasonable. Fuck'em. Let's go over the cliff.

[socialist_n_TN]

4. No deal is better than a bad deal.......

And this "trial balloon" being floated about is a BAD deal. Go over the fiscal speed bump and sort it out next Congress.

Edited to add: BTW, this "fiscal cliff" shit is just more Shock Doctrine. Read Naomi Klein's book or even see the movie. This is EXACTLY what she writes about.

[Lasher]

5. This is pretty much what Republicans said when Clinton raised taxes.

But the economy didn't tank like they said. It did the exact opposite.

[BrentWil]

12. The GOP aren't the ones saying it

Abd what Clinton did was actually good policy.

[democrattotheend]

8. A voice of reason

Thank you. I really, really hate this chained CPI crap, but I agree that the impact on the economy of failing to get a deal will hurt a lot of people.

Plus, the worst of the cuts from chained CPI won't kick in for a while. I predict it being like the Medicare doc fix, where they start patching it every year once the cuts get bigger to prevent them from hitting too hard. This enables the president and Congressional Democrats to say they compromised and did something to reduce the deficit, but do something down the line when the cuts start to actually hit hard. When the cuts start to hit harder Democrats can propose yearly fixes to prevent or lessen the cuts and force the Republicans to vote against them.

[backscatter712]

9. When the GOP takes hostages, I vote for shooting them.

It's time to tell the GOP we don't negotiate with terrorists.

If we just jump over the fiscal cliff, the GOP will be left twisting in the wind, then we can just tell them the pain will end whenever they want it to. All they have to do is agree to our terms.

[Honeycombe8]

14. Probably not the best time to joke about shooting people. nt

[Hoyt]

11. Basically agree. Not happy with latest proposals, but a deal is important.

We will all be better off for it.

[kentuck]

15. No, we won't be better off for it.

We will be weaker and worse off because the President will never be stronger than he is today.

[ellisonz]

13. Over the Cliff!

[BrentWil]

22. Nothing like smiling at something that will fuck millions of poor and middle class

[ellisonz]

23. Making a deal with Boehner does that too...

[BrentWil]

28. There are degrees of fucked..

And we will own this economic downturn.

[ellisonz]

30. Well have fun slicing of your nose to spite your face.

[kentuck]

25. It will not benefit or hurt the poor as much as the middle class.

They are suffering already.

[BrentWil]

32. An economy that sinks always hurts those at the bottom the most. NT

[Honeycombe8]

16. We do need a deal. I know cuts are coming. But for me, Social Security is the line in the sand.

No way will I be happy with anything that ends up cutting Social Security benefits. Social Security is not part of the budget problem.

It ends up disproportionately affecting lower income, vulnerable people who did nothing to cause the economic collapse. Change in the CPI is a pay cut for them. Many count every penny as it is. They are not in a position to do anything about it, often, like get a job.

I will be very displeased if that happens, to put mildly.

[forestpath]

20. +1 Some things are unconscionable, that is one of them.

[democrattotheend]

27. I agree with you

I am willing to accept cuts to SS but not ones like this that mainly hurt the poor and middle class beneficiaries. If they can't raise the cap then cut benefits or increase taxes for those getting the max.

[BrentWil]

42. How does this mainly hurt the poor?

It's a different index for growth off all benefits.

[democrattotheend]

43. Because the poor are more likely to substitute

Maybe I am off base, but I figured this formula would hurt the poor & middle class more because they are the ones more likely to substitute goods when one good becomes too expensive. The really rich don't care - they just buy the more expensive product anyway.

[BrentWil]

44. It's an inflation rate that will slow the growth of benifits

The same rate is applied to all benifits.

[wildbilln864]

17. go over the cliff!

fuck a bad deal!

[Autumn]

18. No, we need to proudly march right over that cliff

this is what the republicans did. Let them fucking pay for it.

[BrentWil]

26. We will pay...

The economy goes down when we just re-elected Obama.... If you think they pay, you are nuts... Look at history not today's polls.

[Autumn]

33. Some of us have been paying since this fucking recession began

Obama makes a deal touching SS the Democratic party will pay and the fucking pukes win. Your taxes go up, sorry for your bad luck, the poor and some of us elderly on a pension lost their tax breaks in Obama last deal with the pukes.

[democrattotheend]

29. And then what?

If we go over the cliff, the Republicans will magically agree to extend unemployment benefits, invest in infrastructure, cut taxes for the 98% w/o cutting it for the 2%, pass the doc fix, patch the AMT, and raise the debt ceiling for 2 years without any cuts in Medicare/SS/social spending?

I don't understand what the argument is for going over the cliff. How would that make us any better off in terms of negotiating?

[forestpath]

19. We need a president who acts like a Democrat and that means

no Social Security cuts.

Otherwise, I might as well have voted for a Republican. And I have never voted for one of those in my life and I certainly don't intend to ever start.

[BrentWil]

24. Yeah, a changes index is the same as what they wanted to do...

Totally the same.

[forestpath]

37. Please. Elderly people getting less money when they most need it.

It will feel the same no matter what politically expedient name you care to call it.

[RomneyLies]

21. We need a deal on thebudget like we need a hole in the head

Fuck that. A bad deal is worse than no deal. Anything that touches Social Security or Medicare at all is a bad deal.

[kentuck]

31. The end result will be....

that there are not enough revenues coming into the Treasury and more and more cuts will have to happen. Who will that hurt? Those that can least afford it. Programs cannot exist without revenues coming in to pay for them. It's simple arithmetic. The deal about to be made will make more cuts necessary. It's a terrible idea, in my opinion.

[BrentWil]

34. The GOP is giving on tax rates. NT

[Bonobo]

35. Bush tax cuts expire automatically.

Why do we have to accept them being tied to the budget?

Let them die. Separate issue. Unless you SUCK at negotiations.

[kentuck]

36. They don't suck...

They think their supporters are fucking stupid.

[BrentWil]

38. All rates go up, including the low brackets. NY

[kentuck]

45. And what is the lowest rate where people actually pay taxes?

How much is this going to affect the very poor?

[Enrique]

39. going Greek is one of the more ridiculous RW talking points

I challenge anyone to find any link predicting the U.S. is at risk of following Greece. I guarantee it will be the stupidest RW clown you ever saw.

And now we see that argument at DU, in support of Obama.

[BrentWil]

40. That's not what I wrote. NT

[socialist_n_TN]

41. This is the truth.........

Although a lot of the problems of Greece have the same causes as here (underpayment of taxes by the wealthy and a neo-liberal economic agenda, coupled with our own unique neo-conservative imperialistic foreign policy sucking money out of the working class), the difference is that Greece can't set their own monetary policy as long as they're in the European Common Market. We can.

[They_Live]

46. Screw That

Make the RICH pay for THEIR WARS - big time.