General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf I by gas at CITGO
am I supporting Hugo Chavez's Bolivarian revolution? Disclaimer - I hope I am. I am not a Hugo fanboy, but I support his efforts to share his country's wealth with its poorest citizens.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Or Venezuela after Chavez called W a devil. Seems like having W called a devil did not compare to the Twin Towers. Buy CITGO.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Semtex and plane tickets for rich Saudis and their dupes.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)It's not a perfect solution, but it makes me feel a little better.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)ellenfl
(8,660 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)whistler162
(11,155 posts)physioex
(6,890 posts)If you consider that petroleum products are fungible and a commodity, it would make no difference where you get the products.
Gas is gas.
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)but if i buy at an exxon station i am giving money to exxon - same with bp, citgo, etc.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)the profits go to Venezuela, and after that a much larger portion than that any other energy corporation goes to the Venezuelan people.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Eom
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Latin America, mostly of course in Venezuela and the way he provides cheap oil to the poor, right here in the US. Wish our own government would think of the poor that way.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)nice to be on the same side as you. we usually aren't. happy new year, sabrina.
Crackinrocket
(25 posts)dissent, trampling free speech etc?
sarchasm
(1,012 posts)... just sayin'.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)His behavior causes me concern. Who monopolizes the the radio and television to talk for 6 or 8 hours at a stretch? A democratically elected leader calling for a constitutional amendment to extend his rule is a red flag in my book. His intentions may be good, but many of his initiatives seem to be marked by extraordinary incompetence. Many of his legislative initiatives seem to be poorly conceived and unworkable. I'm not a fan.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)My democratically strong-armed government is better than yours!
Neener, neener, nee-ner...
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)Crackinrocket
(25 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)i am not a chavez cheerleader. i think he has quite the authoritarian streak (though democratically elected.) however, i very much admire his prioritization of improving the lot of the poor in his country. the entire history of latin america is full of leaders who line their pockets by turning their natural resources over to foreign capitalists. hugo doesn't do that. i respect him for it and would like to show my support for that at the gas pump. i had rather my money build schools for venezuela's poor than underwear bombs for al qaeda.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)I just think he's a huge asshole. And if results and competence in governance matter, then I think Hugo Chavez has been a huge disappointment, especially given the enormous oil revenue he's had to work with.
On the other hand, president Eva Morales of Bolivia, is every bit as leftist as Chavez, probably more so by a big margin. But I like Morales.
I feel like a whore no matter who I buy oil from. Citgo's destruction of the Orinoco River Basin is appalling. BP's poisoning of the Gulf of Mexico is heartbreaking.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)about Chavez.
Let me ask you, do you think the Venezuelan people are too stupid to notice all this about the man they have reelected multiple times over the past 14 years? Maybe they should have consulted with the far Right here in the US who would have told them what a megalomaniac and idealogue he is before making that mistake over and over again?
At least if you are going to criticize the democratically elected leader of another country, please don't use right wing talking points. Base your criticism on facts if you expect them to be taken seriously.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:32 AM - Edit history (1)
Whatever their opinion was about Hugo Chavez and Venezuela has nothing whatsoever to do with any criticisms I have.
The mere fact that Chavez won elections is hardly a compelling argument that he has been a wise or effective leader. I believe we can each come up with examples closer to home that would show how that argument might be flawed.
And while I'm loathe to dignify your question about whether or not I "think the Venezuelan people are too stupid" with an answer, I'll answer simply, no, I don't think the Venezuelan people are "too stupid", as you put it.
Hugo Chavez's frequent, often daily, habit of appearing on television to deliver non-stop, rambling, speeches often lasting for 3 hours or more is behavior consistent with a megalomaniac, in my opinion.
Besides appearing on the five, Venezuelan state television channels, president Chavez's speeches, known as cadenas, must also be carried on almost the entire national broadcast system. During the 2012 election campaign, a Chavez speech even interrupted a broadcast by opposition candidate Henrique Capriles.
RCTV, once Venezuela's most watched station, lost its broadcast license in 2007. It resumed broadcasting on cable as RCTV Internacional, but was taken off the air in 2010 for refusing to carry Mr Chavez's obligatory broadcasts.
Making matters worse, in my opinion, is the content and tone of his speeches. He relies far too much on pompous, overblown, hyperbolic, rhetoric as would befit a national leader, in my opinion. There's a time and a place for bombastic speechifying, but all day, all the time doesn't fit my taste, if it pleases you.
Substantively, I believe a solid argument can be made that Venezuela and Venezuelans are practically no better off after 12 years of his rule.
I have serious objections to many specific provisions in Venezuela's sweeping education reforms of 2010 -- which I should add have nothing at all to do with "right wing talking points", as you implied. Even if many of the law's objectives were laudable, I think the law as passed is an unworkable mess.
Likewise, I have deep objections to many of the reforms to the "Law on Social Responsibility in Radio and Television".
Lastly, I'll continue to "criticize the democratically elected leader of another country" however I see fit, thank you. Whether I'll be "taken seriously" is not something that concerns me all that much.
Crackinrocket
(25 posts)Look up illiberal democracy on Google. Was it the Venezuelan people that reelected him or the suppression of all opposition?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)i am willing to accept that both apply to chavez. i don't worship him and defend everything he does, as admittedly some on DU do.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)Never buy from WalMart or from one of the major oil companies if you can avoid it.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)and they're all feeling brave again.