The most progressive tax code since the early eighties?

[unblock]

So if I understand the deal, the rich get the higher Clinton rates and phaseout of exemptions and deductions. The middle class gets a permanent Amt patch and the lower shrub rates. The poor get various Obama credits.

Aside from the inexcusable lower tax rate for dividends and capital gains, which at least would go up somewhat for the rich, this may be the best, most progressive tax code we've had since Reagan screwed it all up.

[hfojvt]

1. the middle class does NOT benefit from the AMT patch

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022062010

43% of the benefits of the AMT patch goto the RICHEST 5%

92% of the benefits goto the richest 20%

I don't consider either of those groups to be part of "the middle".

But now even Democrats are determined to give money to the rich and call it "middle class tax relief".

And no, the tax code would have been more progressive if ALL of the Bush tax cuts had expired. "The Deal" gives most of its benefits, NOT to the middle class, much less the poor, but to the rich.

Hopefully CTJ will do an analysis to verify that fact.

It cannot be undone, but in some way it would be nice to know just how badly the useless Democratic Party has screwed us over.

In some way.

[unblock]

3. I thought we were the 99%?

Now we're not even the 80%?

Certainly in high-tax, high-mortgage states, it affects the middle class.

That said, perhaps I should have omitted the Amt entirely, as it's really the same as it's been since its inception. The only difference is its "permanence", at least until the next negotiations....

[hfojvt]

4. no. I always thought that whole 99 business was crap

like members of the top 5% are on the same side as the bottom 20%.

Yeah, sure.

As for high tax states. It has been reported here in the past. In all 50 states, the bottom 20% pays a higher tax rate than the top 1%.

The middle class is a large group which I would divide like this

20 - 40 - lower middle class
40 - 60 - middle middle class
60 - 80 - upper middle class

But this is one of the main betrayals of the Democratic Party. They will say "policy X benefits the middle class". But then when you look at the details and the facts, the vast, vast majority of the benefits goes to the 70-95th group.

Heck, the AMT patch even gives benefits to 27% of the top 1%. $1.6 billion in tax relief for the top 1%. $26 billion to the top 4%. And to the middle class - $4.8 billion.

[unblock]

6. actually, i think the "99%" figure was both accurate and politically genius

if you want to go and divide ourselves against each other, no thanks, i'll have no part of it.

the fact of the matter is that the real distinction between rich and even upper, upper middle class is that the middle class still, realistically needs to work for a living. they may have nicer houses and cars and neighborhoods than the rest of us, but if they still have to work every day to support it all, then they're still living a lifestyle fundamentally similar to the rest of us.

it's the 1%, the truly rich, for whom work is optional, and becomes a game. these people could retire at any point and be quite comfortable, but for the most part these people move mountains and toy with our lives for the thrill of it. that's a very different lifestyle and type of class.


in any event, my o.p. was intended to compare what's contemplated in the latest deal with what we've actually had in the past, rather than what we theoretically could have had. the amt has ALWAYS been patched, afaik, and will be in this deal, so there's really no difference at all. the only difference is that the patch is permanent. like i said, i suppose i should have just dropped it from the o.p.

point is, we have higher clinton era tax rates for the rich, and shrub era tax rates for the middle and working classes, and obama era credits for those struggling. it's hardly perfect, but it may be the best tax code we've had since reagan trashed it.

[hfojvt]

8. no, it was both stupid and inaccurate

the FACT that we are divided is not erased by claiming "we are the 99%".

Because what happens is what happened right here.

Some a$$hole lying crap of politician claims "middle class tax relief"

and if you look at the distribution of WHO gets most of the tax relief, it looks like this

bottom 20% - 5%
next 20% - 9%
middle 20% - 13%
next 20% - 19%
next 15% - 26%
top 4% - 13%
top 1% - 13%

or in dollar figures

bottom 20% - $15 billion
next 20% - $27 billion
middle 20% - $39 billion
next 20% - $57 billion
next 15% - $78 billion
top 4% - $39 billion
top 1% - $39 billion

But those other 19% in the top 20% are quite happy to support a policy that favors their well off selves far more than it helps those in the bottom 40%, because they don't really give a rat's a$$ about the "losers" in the bottom 40%.

And those are actual numbers, not just some imaginary policy http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxcompromise2010.pdf

[Angry Dragon]

2. ...........

[WilliamPitt]

5. Ah so

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7. somehow i feel if you had authored this post it would have gotten at least 150 replies.

i blame it all on my faulty shift key.