The whole gun regulation debate come down to 3 words, white male privilege

[MightyMopar]

Who is lining up at gun stores to buy military weapons because Obama wins elections? For 300 years, white guys with guns have run roughshod over America and the rest of the world and now that is coming to an end, many of these guys are scared to death.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Oh Bullshit. Please stop it. It's racist to try to attach gun rights to caucasian people.

You should self delete this unfounded disruptive divisive crap.



Unbelievable.

[Robb]

2. OK. So I gotta ask, are you being ironic here?

I mean because the whole idea behind the Panthers carrying rifles was, well, as a response to exactly what the OP is going on about.

In an admittedly blunt way.

[MightyMopar]

9. The gun lobby's newfound embrace of minorities is as forced and awkward as the Republicans

Excerpt from Charlton Heston's "white guy speech"

"Then you are a victim of the cultural war. You are a casualty of the cultural warfare being waged against traditional American freedom of beliefs and ideas. Now maybe you don't care one way or the other about owning a gun. But I could've asked for a show of hands on Pentecostal Christians, or pro-lifers, or right-to-workers, or Promise Keepers, or school voucher-ers, and the result would be the same. What if the same question were asked at your PTA meeting? Would you raise your hand if Dan Rather were in the back of the room there with a film crew?

See? Good. Still, if you didn't, you have been assaulted and robbed of the courage of your convictions. Your pride in who you are, and what you believe, has been ridiculed, ransacked, plundered. It may be a war without bullet or bloodshed, but with just as much liberty lost: You and your country are less free.

And you are not inconsequential people! You in this room, whom many would say are among the most powerful people on earth, you are shamed into silence! Because you embrace a view at odds with the cultural warlords. If that is the outcome of cultural war, and you are the victims, I can only ask the gravely obvious question: What'll become of the right itself? Or other rights not deemed acceptable by the thought police? What other truth in your heart will you disavow with your hand?

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed yellow stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So�what color star will they pin on our coats? How will the self-styled elite tag us? There may not be a Gestapo officer on every street corner yet, but the influence on our culture is just as pervasive.

Now, I am not really here to talk about the Second Amendment or the NRA, but the gun issue clearly brings into focus the war that's going on.

Rank-and-file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens. After enough breakfast-table TV promos hyping tattooed sex-slaves on the next Rikki Lake show, enough gun-glutted movies and tabloid talk shows, enough revisionist history books and prime-time ridicule of religion, enough of the TV anchor who cocks her pretty head, clucks her tongue and sighs about guns causing crime and finally the message gets through: Heaven help the God-fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle class, Protestant, or�even worse�Evangelical Christian, Midwest, or Southern, or�even worse�rural, apparently straight, or�even worse�admittedly heterosexual, gun-owning or�even worse�NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff, or�even worse�male working stiff, because not only don't you count, you're a downright obstacle to social progress. Your tax dollars may be just as delightfully green as you hand them over, but your voice requires a lower decibel level, your opinion is less enlightened, your media access is insignificant, and frankly mister, you need to wake up, wise up and learn a little something about your new America...in fact, why don't you just sit down and shut up?

That's why you don't raise your hand. That's how cultural war works. And you are losing."

http://www.vpc.org/nrainfo/speech.html

Now these threatened white guys see Obama winning and gay marriage, etc and they're stampeded into going down to the gun store.

[Squinch]

13. Good lord! I never saw this before. Charlton is more of a crackpot than I thought!

And he is in fact self identifying "caucasian, middle class, protestant, hetersexual, NRA card carrying, male working stiff" as the group that needs to be afraid.

Yep. That'll be a horse's mouth right there.

[MightyMopar]

40. Then there's the NRA/ALEC "stand your ground" law that works so well on black teenagers

Yeah, race has nothing to do with guns laws.

[MightyMopar]

54. Just google "NRA comic book" if you want to see gun lobby/NRA/ALEC racial fear mongering

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2006/12/26/nr-f8_perilfinal.pdf

[JoeBlowToo]

80. Study shows more whites killed under Stand Your Ground...

That study also tracked the increased homicides by race. In contrast to the narrative established by the Trayvon Martin shooting — many people believe black men are more likely to be the victims of stand your ground laws — this analysis found the additional deaths caused by the laws were largely concentrated among white men.
http://www.npr.org/2013/01/02/167984117/-stand-your-ground-linked-to-increase-in-homicide

[Squinch]

93. That article doesn't refute the OP though. It says that homicides in Stand your Ground states

go up 7 to 9 percent when the law is enacted (again I say, good lord!) and that the increase is higher among white men.

The fact that more white men are killed in Stand Your Ground states doesn't prove that the impulse for passing the law was not racist.

It could be, and I would wager it is, caused by the fact that a certain type of man, who nods approvingly at Charlton Heston's words, only associates willingly with white men. When this certain type of Charlton Heston fan gets pissed off, the likelihood is that there will only be other white men handy to fight with. With these laws, what used to be a fist fight turns into a shooting.

It could be that the increase in killings of white men under the Stand Your Ground laws is caused by simple proximity to those who feel that the Stand Your Ground laws were necessary in the first place.

[spin]

188. Delete. Replied to wrong poster.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

156. Read a study earlier today

wish I could remember where, the states with SYG laws have higher homicide rates that the states that don't have such silly laws. But even more revealing, most of the victims in SYG shootings are white males! Seems many shootings happen when both believe they are standing their ground.

[Number23]

200. Thanks for that post. Never knew Heston put it out there so bluntly

Not that anyone who has been paying attention to this country in its 400 year history didn't already know this was and has always been the gist of much of the militia-fied, "right to arms" bullshit.

[NYC_SKP]

12. The OP is casting a decidedly race-based set of conclusions upon an otherwise color-free discussion.

White male privilege?

Lining up at gun stores?

Is there some data tied to these buzz words?

[Robb]

35. You know the thing about privilege.

You usually don't know you have it.

The OP is decidedly over the top. But you cannot discuss guns in this country without discussing race. There's no getting around it -- it's a power issue, and racism factors in, in this country.

Panthers knew that. They knew it made people really, really nervous to see them walking around with rifles. And it ultimately shifted the conversation, made people see it wasn't about who was inferior, or who was what color -- it was about power.

Again, hamhanded OP notwithstanding.

[NYC_SKP]

219. Well, first....

"You know the thing about privilege. You usually don't know you have it." is nothing more than a discussion blocker, and you should know that.

It suggests that members of the dominant group have no valid opinions. BS.

My response is to the OP, that the reduction of the gun regulation debate to white male privilege is so utterly simplistic that I think it's ignorant (at best) and bigoted (at worst).

Of course the NRA is mostly white, but they don't speak for all white males or even for a majority of that demographic.

It's a distraction, they're a distraction, we need to be looking at the root causes of gun violence, of all violence, and poverty is a large part of it.

We need to work at the problem together, and finger-pointing at any group, large or small, privileged or not, is just bigotry.

I can't believe that you don't see that simple reality.

[Vinnie From Indy]

226. Bravo!

Cheers!

[CreekDog]

52. gun ownership is mostly white and male

women rarely own guns.

non whites rarely own guns.

there is a strong racial and gender difference between gun owners and non-gun owners.

[rightsideout]

58. Let me add to that

White, male and paranoid.

[Dr_Scholl]

74. Not exactly.

Whites do own guns at a higher rate than non-whites, but gun ownership among non-whites is far from rare.

[url]http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/[/url]

[rl6214]

77. Wrong

I live in Texas, lines around here are all Hispanic.

[CreekDog]

78. yours is only an anecdote, mine is based on more than one poll/study

[rl6214]

79. I don't see anywhere where you posted any polls or studies, that makes your post

Anecdotal

[CreekDog]

81. yours is still an anecdote and mine is not

[muriel_volestrangler]

102. A graph that doesn't mention ethnicity or gender?

How is that relevant to this thread?

[rl6214]

163. Cute graph...you still haven't posted any facts which makes yours

Anecdotal

[aptal]

192. Yes, you are right he is wrong.

[kwassa]

194. Gun ownership is a greater predictor of political party more than many other demographics

Nate Silver, of course.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/

But the odds vary significantly based on the political identity of the child’s parents. If they identify as Democratic voters, the chances are only about one in four, or 25 percent, that they have a gun in their home. But the chances are more than twice that, almost 60 percent, if they are Republicans.

Whether someone owns a gun is a more powerful predictor of a person’s political party than her gender, whether she identifies as gay or lesbian, whether she is Hispanic, whether she lives in the South or a number of other demographic characteristics.

.............................................................................
Gun ownership has declined over the past 40 years — but almost all of the decrease has come from Democrats. By 2010, according to the General Social Survey, the gun ownership rate among adults that identified as Democrats had fallen to 22 percent. It remained at about 50 percent among Republican adults.

[rl6214]

195. And this has what to do with my post #79?

[kwassa]

196. Pointing out the variable of party affiliation, and to look at gender and race that Creek Dog ...

spoke about, here are gender and race.


gender



race

http://www.statisticbrain.com/gun-ownership-statistics-demographics/

white 44%

Non-white 27%

Black 27%

also the lower the educational attainment, the more likely to own guns.

[MightyMopar]

202. Did you read the Charlton Heston quote. How could this discusssion possibly be "color free"?

[former9thward]

180. You have it 100% wrong.

The Panthers were demonstrating on the capitol steps in Sacramento to protect a gun control bill that was being considered. Just the opposite of what you are saying.

[Robb]

181. Oh, review your history, please.

Panthers carried guns in the first place to oversee cops, as a check on their force.

What color do you remember cops being?

[former9thward]

184. Don't try and move the goalposts.

The OP is about "white males with guns". There is nothing in there about police. Based on the photo the poster posted you said the Panthers were acting in response to the issue brought up in the OP. That is false. There was a gun control bill being considered in CA at the time and they did not want any gun control legislation. If you want history which I doubt read the link: http://www.pbs.org/hueypnewton/actions/actions_capitolmarch.html

[Robb]

185. Are you deliberately obtuse?

Panthers carried guns to check the power of white men. Anti-carry legislation threatened that check, so they were protesting it.

This is the conversation I've been having. Your reading comprehension issues are not license to change the topic.

[former9thward]

187. You don't know the ideology of the Panthers so don't bother pretending.

They were revolutionaries who believed that the revolution would be violent. That is why they had guns.

[Robb]

193. You are intolerable. Go read a book.

[madinmaryland]

11. Wow! And you call yourself a democrat?? Wow. Just Wow.

[NYC_SKP]

14. How on earth is throwing out the term "white male privilege" a conversationally productive thing?

And what on earth has calling someone on a race-baiting term like that got to do with being a Democrat.

Oh, wait, that's right, a good democrat should call people on race-baiting terms.

You don't need to agree, of course.

[madinmaryland]

26. Are you serious??? I am fucking speechless.

You really have no fucking clue do you.

[NYC_SKP]

199. I like you, madinmaryland. I really do.

.

Please take my statements in the narrow context within which they were composed.

Look at the OP subject line, that it all boils down to three words.

Well, no, it doesn't. It's so much more complex than that.

Now, I could almost have agreed with that subject line had the poster described how white male privilege has oppressed other groups, but they did not.

Instead, the OP seems to be designed to WAY oversimplify and to apply blame somehow to a dynamic.

Also, my reaction to THIS posting member in is the context of their other "interesting" posts and replies.

Some people come here to disrupt. That's all I'll say except that these people ruffle my feathers.

I'm very protective of our community.

[Confusious]

51. It's not racism if it's not a white male heterosexual saying it,

or it's not racism if it's about a white male heterosexual.

So please, check your privilege *HACK*(Sorry that was me barfing when the word 'privilege' came out of my mouth)

[whathehell]

101. Okay, how about just "male privilege".

That seems closer to the truth.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

157. Are you suggesting there is no such thing as white male privilege in the US? n/t

[NYC_SKP]

198. Did I say that?

No, I didn't.

I say that it's nowhere near the center of the problem with guns in our culture and that the OP subject line is, to me, inflammatory.

That is what I am suggesting.

Of course there's white and male privilege, there's always a privilege, every culture has them.

[Number23]

201. Why is that there can be endless conversations about "what's wrong with black people"

"what's wrong with Hispanics/Asians/Arabs etc." but the SECOND the discussion turns to the MYRIAD dysfunction in the white community, particularly the deranged paranoia that Obama's election has brought about in large sub-sets of white people, people start tossing out the "you're race-baiting" angle?

Why are white people so exempt from this type of exploration? The OP is just pointing something out that the vast majority of people in this color have known for decades. What exactly is the problem?

[MightyMopar]

203. I don't think most of these people are actual Democrats

Lot of evidence there's a lot of make believe Democrats on this thread.

The so called gun rights movement is a component of the "Southern Strategy" to allow white men to have their own civil rights struggle however bogus.

[Number23]

204. I think it just proves what every person of color already knows

That racism is in no way only a Republican problem. It affects EVERYONE, Dem and Repub, regardless of how immune they may think they are. And anyone that says otherwise has either completely fooled themselves or is an idiot. Either one.

The so called gun rights movement is a component of the "Southern Strategy" to allow white men to have their own civil rights struggle however bogus.

I absolutely agree.

[NYC_SKP]

205. Here's what I think. I think that desperate people fall back on racial arguments when desperatel

That's what I see.

[Number23]

206. Not that I know what "desperatel" means

But if it means ignoring the 400 years of this country's history which is steeped in the principles of white supremacy, racism and racial oppression, then yes there's alot of "desperatel" going on.

And back at you for whatever reason.

[NYC_SKP]

207. I was, of course, not rewferring to you as desperate...

I was talking about the OP, who in this and other threads has been trying IMHO to start a little race war over this gun thing.

They suggest that white male privilege is at the root of the problem, but for all the wrong reasons.

They suggest that white men are afraid of losing their privilege so are buying guns, I say bullshit.

I say the racial element is that minorities and the poor have been disenfranchised by the wealthy mostly white powerful people.

But to frame this as a white versus black thing is creepy and bigoted, I think.

You and I have been friends for as long as I can remember, I wasn't calling you desperate, and yes, we're still in need of a lot of progress on the equality front.

[NYC_SKP]

228. The problem is the OP reduction of a major issue to one of race, any race, I don't care.

I'm not even trying to protect the dominant culture, it's just that the premise of the OP is one that literally says that's its all just a problem with white males.

Had it been one similarly stereotyping any other group, I'd be equally pissed.

I don't argue with what's written in the body of the post, can't argue that some or many white male people are afraid of Obama and are buying guns.

The trouble is that the subject line in particular suggests that the ENTIRE problem boils down to that group, to the exclusion of other factors.

Such OPs and this type of subject line is by definition flame bait, it doesn't invite thoughtful discussion, it only serves to point fingers at one group.

That's all.

[CreekDog]

53. a lot of us have hurt our jaws asking the same question

[madinmaryland]

55. You type with your jaws???

Nevermind, I running XP on my PC. A bit behind the times!

[Hoyt]

110. How many NRA members are other than White? Give us a break with that BS.

[generalhh]

120. me and my wife are as well as most of our African american friends that own guns

me and my wife are as well as most of our African american friends that own guns

the NRA is behind on its messaging to minority groups but expect them to quickly counter that.

ICE-T (rapper turned actor) in Europe was on a cable news show and was asked about americans and guns. He gave what some of you guys claim is only a NRA white boy talking point.

He stated the truth and primary purpose of the 2nd.

[Hoyt]

121. So we have 3 belonging to group (NRA) with board members like Grove Norquist, T Nugent, John Bolton,

Ollie North, gun manufacturers, and worse.

[Hoyt]

136. Since you describe yourself as a Libertarian, I am not surprised you are a gun apologist.

Or a big NRA supporter.

[SQUEE]

209. Again with the gun owners = NRA fallacy

I have never belonged to, nor supported the NRA, I in fact work to ensure people that do not want to be exposed to the ILA talking points and propaganda are given an alternative to the almost monopoly the NRA enjoys as a voice for gun owners.
Consider, there are at least a hundred million gun owners in the US, and yet the NRA has 4 million members. Therefore by your logic you, me, and everyone else that wants a greener environmental policy are members or shills for the ALF and ELF.

[MrScorpio]

168. Talk about the irony here:

The Mulford Act was a 1967 California bill prohibiting the public carrying of loaded firearms. Named after assemblyman Don Mulford, the bill garnered national attention after the Black Panthers marched on the California Capitol to protest the bill[1][2]. The bill was signed by California Governor Ronald Reagan and became California penal code 12031 and 171©.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

[MrScorpio]

170. Who controls guns in this country has been a debate about race since day one in this country

From militias to control Native Americans, to the fugitive slave posses of the past, to the Black Panthers and the flooding of American urban streets with cheap handguns and narcotics today.

Selling fear, images of white flight and "defense" against "gangs" and "thugs".

Qui bono? Once you answer that, then you'll understand the who and the why and the how.

[cbrer]

3. The only sensible 3 word reply to this is...

Bull Fucking Shit.

Research please.

[Coyote_Tan]

4. Yes, because there was no gun culture before 2008...

This is bigoted hogwash...

[Squinch]

16. I don't understand the reference to 2008. Could you elaborate?

[alp227]

62. That's when Obama first won election.

[Squinch]

95. There was white male loss-of-primacy angst before Obama came on the scene.

The poster is not saying that is the only cause. It's just an example of how it shows up.

[Marinedem]

5. Interesting take.

Where does my CC permit holding, "assault weapon" shooting, gun owning, Arab, female girlfriend fit into your racist, sexist, generalization?

[Robb]

7. Next to my Lamborghini, pet unicorn and six-pack abs?

[MightyMopar]

10. They'll claim they belong to ACORN,teach gays how to defend themselves from other gun guys,vote Dem

They'll even claim they have black best friend!

[Marinedem]

19. LOL, whatever.

Feel free to hate all you want.

Doesn't change the fact that the love of my life loves freedom, guns, and me!



Pics of my GF and her sister the last couple times we hit the range.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Kurska]

21. Clearly you faked those photos in the past 10 minutes using secret NRA technology!

I mean otherwise they'd look like assholes and would owe you an apology.

[Marinedem]

25. Of course!

I keep a file marked "DU rebuttals" on my desktop. it's a little full, what with millions of individual pics to back up the unlimited number of false claims I could make.

[Kurska]

36. How dastardly

And all I did was build a 2k post account, mostly talking about issues completely unrelated to guns (like how I felt about gay rights issues as a gay man) so that half a decade down the line I could claim to be a homosexual to make someone else look stupid.

At least that is what someone implied I did.

[MightyMopar]

179. Now that you put it that way, it is possible

[UnrepentantLiberal]

142. The pictures came from his website.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240200062

[BlueCaliDem]

161. Good thing he's gotten TSed. I wonder how long it will take before that

Rightie creates another DU-zombie account and returns to make fun of DUers? Can they track the IP addresses?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

164. Yes they can.

They catch a lot of zombies that way.

[BlueCaliDem]

189. Excellent! eom

[RetroLounge]

166. So he's been PPRd as a troll

Now why were you defending his bullshit again?



RL

[Kingofalldems]

183. What say you now?

Check out your buddies' profile.

[HockeyMom]

175. I really wish you MEN would stop showing women

with guns. Has your GF ever had to defend herself WITHOUT a precious gun? Well, I HAVE and I am still here 40 years later.

You are preying on FEAR and that women are just poor, defenseless creatures without a big, bad, WEAPON.

[Marinedem]

27. See my response below.

FYI: Salt and pepper might help to mask the taste of all that crow you should eat.

[Robb]

32. You're *not* a white guy?

I stand corrected.

[Kurska]

38. His girlfriend isn't

You know the person you implied doesn't exist? That seems like something I'd apologize for, then I again I wouldn't have done it in the first place.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

144. I guess he'll have to apologize to MarineDem's zombie.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=286136

[RetroLounge]

167. And now that the troll has been PPRd, who are you apologizing to?

Makes one wonder...

RL

[Marinedem]

42. Give it up.

You've been proven wrong. Be the bigger man and admit it, or apologize. Either way, I'm done arguing with you. Have fun in your noble pursuit of calling DUers liars and frauds.


[IMG][/IMG]

[Robb]

59. Now I'm confused.

Which one are you supposed to be?

[stklurker]

61. give it up... you look dimmer with every post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_center

[Marinedem]

70. I'm the one that schooled your trollin ass.

The girl to the right is the one that loves me the way you'll only be if you buy a cocker-spaniel and some peanut butter.

Have a lonely life, asshole.

(For the inevitable Jury review, go ahead and read the conversation for context. This dude is trollin hard.)

[NYC Liberal]

71. 3-3 to leave it

At Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:58 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'm the one that schooled your trollin ass.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2135193

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

vulger and crude.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jan 5, 2013, 04:12 AM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: This whole thread is embarrassing - as is this reply.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Yeah, I read the conversation. And frankly, I think the gun fetishists ought to have a little respect for the 20 small children who were just brutally killed before they bleat endlessly about how dare anyone suggest any regulations on their stupid fucking designed-to-kill-lots-of-humans-rapidly toys. Yeah, that's right, I said it. FUCK YOUR GUNS. Also, alerter; it's spelled "vulgar".
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with the alerter. If you think he's trolling, alert on his posts, don't feed him.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The alerter can't even spell vulgar. Robb is a fucking asshole and anything said in his face is fine with me.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Having looked at the conversation, it definitely looks like Robb is the one trolling here.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

72. The jury system MIGHT be flawed.

[sarisataka]

134. Or not

per post #85, it looks like juror 6 (I was not on the jury) was correct.

[Robb]

85. You spent two hours convincing some guy on the Internet you really have a girlfriend.

On a Friday night.

I have to say, I'm feeling pretty darned good about my life at the moment. I should thank you for that, but I doubt you'd take it in the spirit intended.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

133. LOL!

[Nye Bevan]

28. Well, Marinedem posted his pictures below. Looking forward to yours...... (nt)

[UnrepentantLiberal]

145. He sure did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240200062

[Ikonoklast]

30. Hey, knock it off.

He has a female girlfriend, as opposed to the other kind of girlfriend.

[merrily]

39. Please accept this sincere proposal of marriage, which has nothing

to do with your lamborghini, six pack abs or cool and rare pet (though I would have settled for a pony).

I know nothing else about you, but that does not mean that I do not love you for yourself.

[Kurska]

15. No worries, they'll tell you she doesn't exist just like they told me I wasn't gay.

When I told them that I am a gay man who owns guns. Apparently literally the only people who own guys are white, Christian, conservative men and anyone who claims otherwise is an NRA TROLL INFLITARTOR OF DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

They'll of course ignore thousands of post going back several years as an elaborate rouse to gain the trust of this influential community.

I was willing to post evidence, I understand you probably won't want to do that on a public forum. After I did, I of course never got an apology or anything so it would be a waste of time.

[MightyMopar]

20. Just Google "pink pistols" and make up your own mind

[Kurska]

24. Make up my mind about whether I exist? Who am I, René Descartes?

People need to get over the fact that some dudes have sex with other dudes and the fact that some dudes that have sex with other dudes have guns.

Ladies who have sex with ladies as well.

[Marinedem]

22. See my response.

I believe you're gay.

Too bad you can't post pics to prove it though!!!

Oh well, haters gonna hate.

I love nothing more than getting called a liar, then throwing it back in their faces.

[crazyjoe]

43. shouldn't it be "paid" NRA troll infiltrator..........

[Kurska]

46. Oh yeah I forgot that

I'm sure there are people out there making the big bucks by astroturfing about guns on DU.

I hear we've also been infiltrated by ancient aliens and the free masons.

[onehandle]

6. Exactly right. nt

[Skittles]

8. they are certainly the most paranoid group

[Buzz Clik]

17. Gawd. Do you have any stats to back this up?

[Nye Bevan]

18. Yeah, take Adam Lanza's mom for example.

Oh wait.....

[MightyMopar]

23. Then there's her son

[upaloopa]

29. I want gun control but that OP is a lot of horse shit!

Some thoughts here at DU embarrass me. While don't you tie in animal cruelty, wife beating, child abuse and every other meme that can start flame wars

[AnotherMcIntosh]

37. Please don't give him any ideas.

[Nye Bevan]

41. I know, right?

I've never even owned a gun, nor wanted one. But maybe I'll get one just to take advantage of my "white male privilege" and piss off the original poster.

[bitchinabluestreak]

31. Soooo, I just have to ask...

Where did all the guns in Chicago & Oakland & New Jersey, etc come from? Do other-than-white people have a special gun fairy who leaves them under their pillow while they sleep? And how about the drug cartels?
I've gotta +1 to the poster who said that this is racist. Add misanthropist. (clue: women own guns)
BTW, how *are* these guns going to be regulated? Criminals with guns + disarmed populace, oh that'll end well. /s

You should check out the DoJ's report on violence. And don't forget Twitter. LOTS of guns being waved around on Twitter, complete with assassination threats. Didn't Trayvon Martin have a Twitter or FB pic where he was "brandishing" a gun?
How do you suppose hyperbole like this plays with the average person- especially those who have legitimate concerns for the safety of themselves & their loved ones?

[MightyMopar]

63. bitchinabluestreak said: "considered myself a democrat up until the ACA"

You can't make this up!

[slackmaster]

33. You know, the Nazis had little pieces of flair...

...That they made the Jews wear.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

47. Bwahaha... that made me laugh out loud. Now I feel terrible.

Excellent movie.

[jimlup]

34. I disagree and think it is mistake to couch this important issue in these terms...

I mean I know you'll believe what you want to believe but "white male privilege" isn't really that related to this situation. I mean it is a big stretch at best. Sorry ...

[merrily]

44. My only question is

Why did I read this thread?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

45. Interesting OP given that gun control is historically rooted in Jim Crow & Racism.

Look it up. In the past, gun control was typically aimed at keep "them people" from owning guns.

[X_Digger]

49. Sullivan Act (immigrants), Mulford Act (Black Panthers), various Southern "Declared Emergency" acts

Acts that were designed to keep civil marchers vulnerable, Black Codes, Jim Crow laws..

Watson v. Stone, 4 So. 2d 700, 703 (Fla. 1941) (Buford, J., concurring).

I know something of the history of this legislation. The original Act of 1893 was passed when there was a great influx of negro laborers in this State drawn here for the purpose of working in turpentine and lumber camps.... The Act was passed for the purpose of disarming the negro laborers and to thereby reduce the unlawful homicides that were prevalent in turpentine and saw-mill camps and to give the white citizens in sparsely settled areas a better feeling of security. The statute was never intended to be applied to the white population.... It is a safe guess to assume that more than 80% of the white men living in the rural sections of Florida have violated this statute.... There has never been, within my knowledge, any effort to enforce the provisions of this statute as to white people, because it has been generally conceded to be in contravention of the Constitution and non-enforceable if contested.

[MightyMopar]

50. And black people used to vote Republican and now they don't

[obamanut2012]

131. lol

:EYES:

[obamanut2012]

128. Pistol permits in NC were started to keep Blacks from owning handguns

That is a fact. The sheriff had to approve them. NC is now a "shall issue" state, but it was a "may issue" state at one time, for the same reason.

I am NOT stating I'm against gun control, but it is fact that some "gun control" measures were not actual gun control measures.

[NEG]

56. Wow, pulling the race card out!?

Really? How does this help anything?

[MightyMopar]

57. White male privilege responsible for shooting, professor argues

White male privilege responsible for shooting, professor argues

A history professor at Pasadena City College blamed mass shootings, such as the recent tragedy at Sandy Hook, on “frustrated white male privilege.”

Hugo Schwyzer, a professor of history and gender studies, told National Review Online that mass murders in the U.S. are increasingly committed by white males suffering from “cognitive dissonance,” in a country that is trending toward multiculturalism. White males feel “powerless compared to everyone else around them,” he said.

Schwyzer expanded on this theory in an article he wrote in response to the Aurora, Colorado shooting last July.

“White men are raised to expect to be welcomed wherever they go,” he wrote. “When they find that that automatic welcome isn’t forthcoming, they tend to be indignant. When angry middle-class whites gather together in political groups to “take back our country,” what they want to grab back are the privileges they sense they’ve lost.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/12/22/white-male-privilege-responsible-for-shooting-professor-argues/#ixzz2H4ihBf1A

[AtheistCrusader]

65. Adam Lanza's mom was a dude? *mind blown*

[MightyMopar]

67. I guess you must have been watching Fox News, her white male son was the mass murderer

[AtheistCrusader]

69. Her white male son with known mental health issues, and a history of violence and also

didn't own any firearms? That guy?


Edit: Actually, withdrawing criticism. The article mentions Sandy Hook Elementary, but the professor did not.

[NEG]

125. Hugo Schwyzer is grasping for....

....attention. Do you really think "white male privilege" is the best explanation as to why these things happen? Or maybe "white male privilege" is what is the root cause of this nations mental health issues?

People tie things to race because it is an attention grabber and it stirs very powerful emotions. Emotions and rational thinking don't often go together. I would rather have problems solved based on rational/logical thinking than emotion.

[H2O Man]

60. shallow

[Nye Bevan]

64. White people make up 78% of the US population, and commit 46% of the murders.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Not sure how this ties into "white privilege".

[MightyMopar]

66. 54% of Americans want stricter gun laws including 59% of women, 56% percent of white men oppose them

What's so bad about Americans having all these guns? The murder rate is at an all-time low, right? Well, sort of. More like emergency medical treatment efficacy is at an all-time high. As the gun debate reaches a fevered pitch, from Washington to Twitter to Newtown and back again, in the wake of the Sandy Hook school shootings, here is some much needed context:
-----------------------------------------------------

20 percent: Amount male ownership of guns has decreased since 1980. White males are a shrinking portion of the electorate. They are the clear targets of gun ads. Here's a Christmas ad for a .223-calibre Bushmaster, the carbine used in the Newtown school shooting, at right.

56 percent: Portion of white men who oppose stricter gun control laws, The Washington Post's Greg Sargent points out. And 53 percent of non-college educated whites oppose such laws.

10 percent: Portion of women who own guns.

54 percent: Portion of Americans who favor stricter gun control laws, according to a new ABC News poll.

59 percent: Portion of women who support stricter gun control laws, ABC finds.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/12/guns-in-america-statistics/60071/


67% of Northeasterners are for stricter gun control and America's most violent region, the Southeast only 46% are for stricter gun regulations. Once again the South lags behind more advanced states and nations.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/12/guns-in-america-statistics/60071/

[virgogal]

176. +1

[flvegan]

68. Wow. Just, wow.

Interesting take.

[DonCoquixote]

73. OK,let's be frank

Chalking the WHOLE mess up to "white male privilege" is BULL. I am Latino, and I know many Latino and other minority "gun nuts" that are better armed than some police forces.

However, there is an elephant in the room that sticks out like the dozens of Confederate battle Flags that show at these gun shows, or like the black outlines of Obama as a target sold. A lot of what feeds the industry is the desire, yes desire of feeling that if those dark people and gubbamint types come, they can get shot. It is why when Tray Martin got shot, many, even here on DU, made excuses for Zimmerman.

In short, there is a factor here that cannot be ignored.. It is not the whole NRA, nor is it all white people...but to talk about the FEAR that fuels this, we do have to ask why people who were citizens of a nation that never had a civil war within their lifetime, who have never dealt with a foreign army invading their soil, are arming themselves as if the Taliban is ready to blow up the Burger King?

[Squinch]

98. What he said!

[generalhh]

124. honestly because they dont want to the criminals next victim

When a man or woman is desperate they will take what they need. most junkies dont rob because its fun the rob for things/money to buy drugs.

Home invasions now are seeing the largest increase I have seen. In my military hometown this also means about every other week if not more often we have a story about a citizen using their gun to kill or shoot an attacker. they are tired of waiting for the police to come 30min later to fill out a report and offer a charity ride to the hospital. ( you do know the hospital bills the victim if they are assaulted and need medical treatment right)

Some people dont feel the need or have the desire to own firearms and that is 1000% ok with me. Just dont punish those that do. In my life i have had to present my firearm 2 times. I never shot someone but ironically 2 days later at the same walmart a pack of thugs tried to rob me at ( i told them not interested and then 2 ran towards me I presented my handgun and they quickly ran a way i got in my car and rove home) the armed citizen shot 1 robber in a parking lot robbery attempt. So there after the walmart super center went from 24hr to 6am to midnight hours.

For some people a gun provides them with a fighting chance in a situation no one wants to be in. Think (5'1" 145lb 40 yr old woman vs 6'3" 235lb man that has broken in to her home or followed her to her car after a work dinner.

[DonCoquixote]

197. lets define some concepts

For the home, do you need a magazine with more than six shots? Why not a shotgun?

Second, do you honestly expect people to ignore the outright race pandering that does happen at these gunshows? The Dixie Flags, the literature that talks of having to fight the government? No, it is not the whole of gun ownership, but a cancer is not the whole of a body, until it gets fatal that is.

[Demo_Chris]

75. Argue the merits of your position rather than insulting those who disagree (nt)

[rl6214]

76. I live in Texas, the lines I see at local shops are all Hispanic.

How does that fit into your race baiting thread?

[MightyMopar]

88. And North Korea has a cute girl rockband and China now has a more middleclass people than America

[rl6214]

165. Race baiting thread

[Honeycombe8]

82. Buying military weapons - opportunity to make a monetary killing....

white males do seem to be more proactive at making money, now that I think of it.

It had occurred to me, a female, that a black market for the banned items would spring up, but it hadn't occurred to me to buy any of it now in order to sell it later and make a killing financially. Not that I would do such a thing with assault weapons or high count mags.

It's like the difference between someone who has good ideas for inventions, and those who MAKE new inventions. Two different kinds of people. One is much more proactive.

Since there are more white males than any other type of male, they would have more guns, to begin with, wouldn't they? And I think not many females buy guns.

[aikoaiko]

84. Well, when one promises to ban something useful, people who can will tend to hoard.

Its really not that difficult to understand.

[bemildred]

86. It's very simple-minded to reduce such a complex issue to a racial/gender stereotype. nt

[MightyMopar]

87. In the future the political bogeyman won't be the black man but the white guy with guns

[bemildred]

91. Thanks for clearing that up Nostradamus.

I'm always impressed with people who know what the future holds, especially since we are in period of very rapid change.

[Warren Stupidity]

90. Sure, but stereotypes are not entirely useless.

There is a gun culture. It is predominantly white and male.

[bemildred]

92. How do you feel about applying that notion to gay stereotypes???? nt

[Warren Stupidity]

94. It depends on why one would be doing this.

For example, if we were back in the early eighties trying to understand the epidemiology of aids, understanding gay culture and the general habits of gay men might be, and in fact was, critical to slowing the spread of the disease. This actually was a huge issue in the gay community in the early eighties. If on the other hand you just want to make hairdresser jokes then you are a bigot.

Understanding gun culture would seem to be vitally important if we want to diminish its capacity for deadly violence.

[bemildred]

96. Statistical research is not stereotypes.

Stereotypes, at best, are useful heuristics, and they never tell you anything about an individual, individuals are not compelled by statistics.

In this case the problem is that neither skin color nor gender will tell you how someone feels about guns, or much of anything else for that matter, so focusing on that just prevents you from looking at the things that might.

[Warren Stupidity]

97. Read "and the band played on" and the great bath house wars of the early 80s.

It wasn't statistical analysis, it was understanding stereotypical gay male urban culture.

[bemildred]

100. No, that was understanding real gay culture, which was necessary.

Stereotypes are not real, they are cultural fictions, like money and gender roles. You can easily show that lots of women do the dishes, that's a fact. The stereotype says that they ought to do dishes, or they like doing dishes, or its natural for them to do dishes. The same considerations apply to white males and their affection or lack of it for guns. Some of us hate guns (as is perfectly clear here on DU for example) and some of us don't care much.

I think we're nuts and can't even have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

[NYC_SKP]

210. Well said, bemildred.

I wish I'd have articulated these points in my first reply to this OP.

[bemildred]

211. Why thank you.

[upaloopa]

103. You leave out the gangs who are mostly male but also brown, black and white.

It amazes me when someone writes such an obvious bull shit OP and gets corrected over and over yet insists on repeating the same obvious bull shit! Why?

[Warren Stupidity]

105. Urban gun ownership rates, non white gun ownership rates are very low

Compared to rural white males.

[upaloopa]

107. You are fucking lame. I was a rural white man gun owner. We had single action pistols, shot guns

and hunting rifles not Glock 9mm.

There is no honest comparison here!

[hack89]

119. There is a violent gang culture that isn't

It wasn't white males that have produced a spike in Chicago gun violence.

Perhaps the situation is a little more complex than "gun culture"?

[TheKentuckian]

89. My great grandmother owned, as did my grandmother, as did my mother, and I do too.

Great grandmother was full blood Cherokee so neither white nor male, they say she was a crackshot.

My grandfather owned rifles, shotguns, and pistols. He wasn't much fairer (if any) than say Wesley Snipes. His cousins all hunted, would at times carry for self defense, and for farm use.

I also know plenty of white folks that have nothing to do with a gun (and plenty with several too) and plenty of black folks who own. As a percentage in my circles, more black people own.
Anecdotal evidence does indicate that white people into guns are way more into them than black people who own and they own more per person.

A male thing I can see. Outside of my family, female ownership is a much less common. Not rare but not in high numbers either. White? Meh...not that I see and even among the gun nuttiest white folks that I associate with is it about privilege that I can detect (hint: they might not want to be hanging with me if that was a principle driver).

[Earth_First]

99. So in otherwords; credit card debt can be surmised by white female privilidge...

See what I did there.

Your OP is garbage in, garbage out.

[OccupyManny]

104. Not really true

I'm against any assault weapons but I carry a handgun in my truck for safety. I drive long haul and have had a few attempted robberies. I delivered a load in Trenton NJ late one night and made a wrong turn down a street where my truck was surrounded by some thugs. One of them came to my cab with a baseball bat and I pulled out my pistol while I called 911. They took off but not before the cops got there.

[cantbeserious]

106. Agree With OP - White Male Privilege Is A Significant Obstacle To Outlawing Guns In America

eom

[Tuesday Afternoon]

108. bullshit.

[Hoyt]

109. Yahoos lined up at Atlanta gun show to buy assault weapons only one week after Sandy Hook

[99Forever]

111. Over 2100 views, 110 replies, but not a ...

... single rec.

That tell you anything "MightyMopar"?

Maybe I'd better go get me some gunz gunz gunz gunz, 'cuz I could damn sure use some of that "priviledge" stuff, that people like you keep talking about.

[MightyMopar]

112. 15 recs

[99Forever]

114. My bad...

.. so you are cooking along at the approval rate of around .7% or so.

When you're hot, you're hot.

[MightyMopar]

182. Happiness is a warm gun!

[gollygee]

113. Did anyone in this thread actually look up any statistics

http://www.statisticbrain.com/gun-ownership-statistics-demographics/

It doesn't seem overwhelmingly white or male, but maybe weighted in that direction. More weighted toward white than male I think looking at the graph?

[TeeYiYi]

122. Thanks for the graph. Interesting stats...

Clearly middle class, middle aged white republican conservative males with less than a full college education. (Percentages decline as education increases.)

Male - 43 %
Female - 35 %

White - 44 %
Non White - 27 %
Black - 27 %

Age:
18 – 29 = 31 %
30 – 49 = 40 %
50 – 64 = 45 %
50 + = 42 %
65+ = 38 %

Income:
$75,000 - 47 %
$50,000 - 49 %
$30,000 - 44 %

Education:
College Post Graduate - 30 %
College Graduate - 37 %
Some College - 41 %
High School Graduate or Less - 42 %

Politics:
Republican - 49 %
Democrat - 35 %
Independant - 35 %

TYY

[ileus]

115. You mean other races can't buy firearms?

[musical_soul]

116. I guess those black people with a gun are white.

[generalhh]

117. Young African American Male. College Educated, Small businessman, very involved in commuinty

You are sadly mistaken.

A bit about me: College Educated Black Male, Married with infant child, gun owner for over 10 years. I own multiple firearms (locked and secured unless under my control/holster). I own what some call "assault rifles", bolt guns, shotguns (semi and pump and sidebyside) multiple handguns (from small shield 9mm to full size competition race guns). I buy about 2k rounds of ammunition a month and reload another 500-1000 a month. I am a CCW holder and My wife is as well she caries also. I also teach gun safety and CCW courses on the side.

I started teaching gun safety after many of the older members of my church started to inquire why I (son of dentist mother and Businessman father, never been in trouble with the law, successful good guy) have a gun. I told them for my protection and they all said surprisingly they wanted one for protection in their homes as their had been a rash of crimes in the area of older persons including a few rapes and murders. They were mostly African Americans and were very interested in going shooting and learning about guns.

That was years ago now I train 50-100 mostly minorities every 2 months (women all races, lots of African american plus 40 yrs old and lots of young african american professionals in their 20s and 30s).

We as African Americans have been taught to be subservient to the authority of another ("the man&quot . We have been taught that only thugs and police have and need guns. We are very uneducated about our rights as a whole and specifically the 2nd amendment. We do not even know the father of the modern gun control movement was Ronald Reagan. Modern gun control was his baby it was his way of making sure the power of "the man" could not be challenged by armed black citizens.

Most common guns i see African Americans buying are:
Handguns (usually 4" barrel or smaller for concealed carry)
Shotgun for home defense (most common are inexpensive pump shotguns like mossberg 500s Maveriks and Remingtons)
More recently modern sporting rifles like flat top AR-15s are gaining fast adoption among target and competition shooters. this is mostly because of their ease in customization and accuracy as the ar-15 is the king of rifles in 3 gun competitions.

So like music and almost everything else gun ownership and sporting use is cross racial and socioeconomic levels. and just like every thing else (money, health care access, ect...) Many blacks have a negative relationships guns. But that does not mean that their are not many African american gun owners or supporters of the. Go look at states like Alabama and Mississippi many black black families hunt and defend themselves with guns. I live in NC I do my best to educate all I know about responsible gun ownership and their gun rights.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

148. And every word of it true.

Not.

[tradecenter]

118. What a load of s^^t.

I live in a neighborhood that has AA, whites, Hispanics, and Asians and the one common denominator is that we all have guns in our homes, we all get along together and on occasion, like to go shooting together.
Your OP is nothing more than hateful flamebait and is one of the reasons that we can't have a meaningful, honest discussion on gun control.

[MightyMopar]

127. So you are saying white male previlege has no political implications in this debate?

[NEG]

132. MightyMopar.....

...I think he and others are trying to say that if there are any political implications of the "white male privilege" concerning this debate, they are very miniscule. There are so many other much more significant subjects to be discussing without bringing race into it.

The race subject is really distracting and unecessary....find some other arguing points. There are plenty.

[tradecenter]

137. Exactly!

Bringing race into the debate does nothing but distract from the real problem, namely, how can we enact gun control laws without infringing on the rights of the lawful gun owner.

[billh58]

146. And yet another Gungeon troll

is served a DU pizza. Enjoy!...

[UnrepentantLiberal]

150. So what was your last user name on this website?

[tradecenter]

169. What's that supposed to mean?

Oh, I get it.
Whatever

[samsingh]

123. good observation

[obamanut2012]

129. I'm a lesbian and a lefty

I own guns and hold a CCW.

My mother is straight, but also a lefty, and she has the same.

A friend at work is a black male and is also a gun owner. He has a Ph.D., so maybe you won't count him for some reason.

Another friend is American Indian, male, and is a gun owner. Another friend is Persian American and a gun owner.

None of my white male friends own guns. Not one.

[Berserker]

135. BUT

When you start your OP with WHITE/MALE/GUNS the haters and grab nuts will have a collective orgasm and give you hundreds of posts possibly getting you a DUzy award and propel you to a place of honor on the greatest page.

[MightyMopar]

138. NOT A SINGLE POST TO DISPROVE THAT GUN OWNERSHIP ISN'T OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE MALE

Study: Latinos More Likely To Favor Strict Gun Control

Posted: 04/26/2012 5:32 pm Updated: 04/26/2012

Latinos are more likely than both whites and African Americans to favor strict gun control laws, according to a report released by the Pew Research Center on Wednesday.

The survey found that 57 percent of whites "say it is more important to protect the rights of Americans to own guns" while "just 37 percent say it is more important to control gun ownership."

Latinos responded very differently. Just 29 percent of Latinos said that it is more important to protect gun ownership rights, than it is to control gun ownership. African American opinions fell in the middle of the two groups, with 35 percent of subjects answering that it is more important to protect the rights of Americans to own guns.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/26/study-latinos-more-likely_n_1456523.h

Pictures of Danica Patrick and Juan Pablo Montoya don't prove NASCAR isn't dominated by white males.

[Berserker]

140. I GUESS THAT SAYS IT ALL

The survey found that 57 percent of whites "say it is more important to protect the rights of Americans to own guns" while "just 37 percent say it is more important to control gun ownership."

Case Closed Democracy prevails!

[MightyMopar]

141. Using Romney's pollster you're right but whites aren't a majority anymore

Last edited Sat Jan 5, 2013, 05:05 PM - Edit history (1)

That part of the point of this OP, demographics is fixing turn hard against the gun crowd. Many gunners ar dying off because of old age and being replaced in the electorate by urban, black, Asian and Hispanic voters who are far less gun friendly regardless annecdotal assertions and pictures. Want a picture of an African American hockey player?

[Puha Ekapi]

139. Bullshit, mopar

In my traditional community (Northern Ute, Ft. Duchesne, Utah), most households are well armed, as are most people all across Indian Country. I'd wager Native people have the highest rates of firearms ownership of any ethnic group in the country. From my casual, non scientific observation, I'd say that probably 90% of legally eligible males own guns, and nearly as many women. We also vote Democratic at a 90-95% rate. We learned the hard way what happens when we are stripped of the means to defend ourselves. We aren't going to allow that to happen again.

[billh58]

147. So you are armed

in preparation of going to war with the US government? Interesting.

[Puha Ekapi]

149. Ummmm...

...no. We aren't "preparing to go to war". Being well armed is simply a reasonable precaution, considering our history.

[billh58]

151. So you "reasonably" expect to be invaded by our government?

Good thing the potential enemy allows you to buy big old guns isn't it?

[Puha Ekapi]

153. Explain to me...

...why our people should put complete faith and trust in the government of the dominant culture? The track record isn't so great, ya know.

[billh58]

154. I didn't say that you should put

your "faith and trust" in the US government. I just questioned how you expect to oppose them with off-the-shelf weapons. Sounds like an NRA wet dream scenario to me.

[Puha Ekapi]

155. We are not...

..."expecting" a confrontation, I thought I made that clear. But WRT issues of tribal sovereignty, there is the possibility, however remote, that we could have to assert our sovereignty with the threat of armed resistance. The very threat could give the government pause, and make them reconsider their policies and actions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

162. Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee

Last edited Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:38 PM - Edit history (1)

I highly suggest you read that as an introduction to the modern history.

Tribes across the US are not paranoid. Nor is this an NRA talking point. There is a long history, of which most members of the dominant culture are woefully unaware off, blissfully so.

Nor s anybody talking of a tyrannical government, but of the Federal Government no longer following the agreements with sovereign nations. It would not be the first time the Feds ahem, ignore treaties with independent nations.

[Puha Ekapi]

171. Bury my

Heart at Wounded Knee.

[nadinbrzezinski]

172. Thanks for the correction

Damn flu.

It's bad

But I am no longer surprised people have no idea.

Welcome to DU

[SQUEE]

212. and yet you think I as a Jew am paranoid or ...

Pogroms happen, with disturbing regularity to my tribe.
Many of us have said never again, not just for ourselves but for our nation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

213. And many of us have said never again to genocide

Not just my particular tribe.

Thank for playing the Jew card...dad was a holocaust survivor.

[SQUEE]

214. Jew card..Hardly

Merely pointing out some find some forms of "resistence" understandable, yet others are"paranoid" or Quixotic.

[nadinbrzezinski]

215. Point to any progromm in US history

Russia and Poland don't count.

Yes, there was a lot of discrimination historically, still is to be honest. But please, point to one.

I will wait.

Also point to official US extermination policy. (I will kindly point you in the right direction, WW II before any of the camps were even found, let alone liberated. But one of the members of the Cabinet was Jewish, funny dat). That's the closest anybody can come to anything close.

Yes, you played a card. And funny thing in the PMs not a one progromm was mentioned but the upcoming glorious revolution.

[SQUEE]

216. in deference to the flu I will assume you meant Pogrom.

I have many and various reasons to wish to maintain my arms, as well as the ability to retain a level of proficiency and expertise. That would not seem that hard to understand. Is you Computer only for DU, or do you also work and check movie times? I also have various "traits" that could paint me as a problem to be "solved", my last name and family history only being one.

historically MANY different ethnicities, have attempted to exterminate perceived others, and yes it has happened here. And in "civilized" Europe, in the the last 2 decades, it is happening today in Chiappas and in the Middle East against the Marsh Arabs, in S.E. Asia against the Hmong, most specifically the Montagnard people. Every day, all over the world.
I prefer to be vigilant and prepared, lest I wake up on the wrong side of someones to do list.

[nadinbrzezinski]

217. You do that

Bless ya...

And really, you think I am unaware of the Chiapas situation? Or the Maya in Guatemala

But I see you were unable to present a single example of a progromm in US history.

None is saying it could not happen. But hey, I prefer to stop all genocides, not just my own.

So what stories do you want me to share with you from "Maria" and her family's encounter with the Guatemalan Army? Suffice it to say they are very similar to Sara's in Poland and Einzgruppen B

So you go ahead. If you think I am the enemy for wanting some sort of regulation as national policy, or worst a Capo, so be it.

[SQUEE]

218. first so we are on the same page

pogrom noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
Mob attack, condoned by authorities, against persons and property of a religious, racial, or national minority. The term is usually applied to attacks on Jews in Russia in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

You are going to say there were was no official programs to remove the Native Americans? To Anglicize those that were in the reservations, and send out the Cavalry to deal with the rest?
The South throughout Reconstruction, I could go on for a week.
Violence against the Chinese workers ("coolies&quot on the West Coast?
How about the knee jerk violence immediately after 9/11 against Muslims, or even Sikhs and Indians in the mistaken belief they were all "Towel Heads".. The continued under class exploitation of Hispanic migrant workers and "illegal" aliens... The complete lack of media concern for inner city "black on black" crime? So, yeah forgive me if I doubt the core decency of the average American as regards to the obvious other.

[nadinbrzezinski]

220. Second, so we are on the same page

I am aware of that history.

Bless your heart and go fight the glorious revolution, which was the reason d'être you originally gave

Third, so you get it, some of us actually have fought against this racism for all our lives.

Fourth, so you get it through your skull, not that you will, your reason d'être was the glorious revolution not the upcoming race war.

Enjoy.

I still want limits and AR-15 do not belong in civilian hands, period.

[nadinbrzezinski]

158. Given US history (why you are)

And US laws passed to prevent minorities in the past from owning. (Look up Jim Crow) he is not crazy to suggest this.

Some of this is not rational, and yes...there is fear across the land.

Chew on that please.

I did not want to get into this thread, but seriously, if this is not national, at least it's regional.

By the way, you also own all slew of weapons, not just rifles, to reserve a traditional way of life, if at all like my local tribes.

I would love to document the very private rites of passage that include hunting and my white neighbors have absolutely no idea off, for the most part.

These are the same white neighbors who do wish for a past where they did not have to worry f Mexicans and other minorities.

Race is very much so part of our gun laws going to the colonies. Oh and race is a cultural construct as well.

[AZ Progressive]

143. Lets see what Michael Moore has to say about this

[HockeyMom]

152. And women who think a gun makes them SEXY to gun toting men

[nadinbrzezinski]

159. Race is a component, at least in some regions.

Time will tell how much.

[madinmaryland]

173. Think about this. If African Americans were walking around with guns hanging off their

belts in Richmond, VA, what would be the reaction??

[nadinbrzezinski]

174. Why I said it is

Think about Mexicans in my own east county.

[madinmaryland]

178. It is actually a component everywhere in this country.

Until the NRA supports the rights of the Black Panthers to openly carry their weapons, I call BS on the National Racist (Rifle) Association.

[fascisthunter]

177. having toys=freedom

your life, is the price to pay.

[Remmah2]

186. Apparently all the squirrels aren't in the woods today. nt

nt

[2ndAmForComputers]

190. People are throwing hissy fits about your OP, did you know that?

From who the fit throwers are, you sure are doing something right.

[MightyMopar]

191. It's just constructive dialogue, can't leave white male privilege out of the discussion

I learned I was bigot but no one can explain why?

[NYC_SKP]

208. You aren't a bigot. But reducing the gun debate to those three words is a bigoted concept.

..

Here is why:

It presumes a great deal about whites and about non-white Americans. (broadbrushing, stereotyping)

It negates the commonalities that we all have.

It's divisive, it frames the debate into an "us versus them" structure.

It's the type of argument used to stir up emotions but not work toward common solutions.

It's a horrible reduction, a terrible premise, and I maintain that it is a bigoted way of looking at a complex problem.

``````````

[NYC_SKP]

222. Correlation is not causation. The OP is bigoted race-baiting flamebait.

The Michael Moore cartoon, by the way, is linked in a post above. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2137676

Of course we cannot dismiss the importance of race relations in the gun debate.

However, all races now have access to all the same guns and gun shows, etc., so if anything, these frightened NRA types should want more gun regulations, but they don't.

What does Michael Moore REALLY think is at the root of the problem?

~snip~
1. We Americans are incredibly good killers. We believe in killing as a way of accomplishing our goals. Three-quarters of our states execute criminals, even though the states with the lower murder rates are generally the states with no death penalty.

Our killing is not just historical (the slaughter of Indians and slaves and each other in a "civil" war). It is our current way of resolving whatever it is we're afraid of. It's invasion as foreign policy. Sure there's Iraq and Afghanistan – but we've been invaders since we "conquered the wild west" and now we're hooked so bad we don't even know where to invade (bin Laden wasn't hiding in Afghanistan, he was in Pakistan) or what to invade for (Saddam had zero weapons of mass destruction and nothing to do with 9/11). We send our lower classes off to do the killing, and the rest of us who don't have a loved one over there don't spend a single minute of any given day thinking about the carnage. And now we send in remote pilotless planes to kill, planes that are being controlled by faceless men in a lush, air conditioned studio in suburban Las Vegas. It is madness.

2. We are an easily frightened people and it is easy to manipulate us with fear. What are we so afraid of that we need to have 300 million guns in our homes? Who do we think is going to hurt us? Why are most of these guns in white suburban and rural homes? Maybe we should fix our race problem and our poverty problem (again, number one in the industrialized world) and then maybe there would be fewer frustrated, frightened, angry people reaching for the gun in the drawer. Maybe we would take better care of each other (here's a good example of what I mean).

Those are my thoughts about Aurora and the violent country I am a citizen of. Like I said, I spelled it all out here if you'd like to watch it or share it for free with others. All we're lacking here, my friends, is the courage and the resolve. I'm in if you are.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/its-the-guns-_b_1700218.html

He's also said some pretty stupid things, like most guns are bought by white men who fear black men, or similar:

~~snip~~

“I get why the Russians might be a little spooked (over 20 million of them died in World War II). But what's our excuse?” Moore said. “Worried that the Indians from the casino may go on the warpath? Concerned that the Canadians seem to be amassing too many Tim Horton's donut shops on both sides of the border?”

“No. It's because too many white people are afraid of black people,” he said. “Period.”

Moore continued: “The vast majority of the guns in the U.S. are sold to white people who live in the suburbs or the country. When we fantasize about being mugged or home invaded, what's the image of the perpetrator in our heads? Is it the freckled-face kid from down the street – or is it someone who is, if not black, at least poor?”

“I think it would be worth it to a) do our best to eradicate poverty and re-create the middle class we used to have, and b) stop promoting the image of the black man as the boogeyman out to hurt you,” he said.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-moore-calm-down-white-people-and-put-away-your-guns

"white people afraid of black people." yeah, right.

But you know some of our favorite spokespeople are also given to hyperbole, which this clearly is.

The OP, on the other hand, is just racebaiting because, unlike Mr. Moore's contributions, the OP offers no solutions whatsoever.

I maintain that poverty, not racism, is at the heart of most gun violence.

And poverty and hunger and abuse by others is colorblind.

[NYC_SKP]

224. The failure of your replies is this:

You seem to be suggesting that I deny any association between gun problems and race.

Far from the truth, I would suggest that, indeed, race relations have to be PART of the conversation.

My original reply to this OP, "The whole gun regulation debate come down to 3 words, white male privilege"

...was made because it's an over-the-top generalization and a race-baiting one at that.

It does NOT come down to just those three words, and to suggest that it does to the exclusion of others is simplistic and ignorant.

I don't think you agree with the OP, I really think you're a LOT brighter and thoughtful than that.

EDITS: remove underline and emoticon.

[Vinnie From Indy]

227. The WHOLE gun debate is about white, male privilege?

This OP has demonstrated quite clearly on several posts that white, male privilege is the root of most evil in the world today. What will it be tomorrow?

Red meat for the simple minded!

Cheers!