Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:13 PM Jan 2013

ok guys one more try..what can be effective on curbing gun violence

PBO's proposals are a step in the right direction but ultimately I think the answer is smart gun tech.

I TRULY believe this is where we need to be putting our efforts and money.

If every gun from this point forward was usable only by the owner who bought the gun it would go a LONG way toward curbing gun violence.

NO MORE stolen guns used
NO MORE straw purchases
NO MORE kids grabbing dads gun and causing mayham.

SMART GUN TECH is where we need to focus our resources.THIS is the future and if we embrace it we could stop a shit ton of gun violence

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
ok guys one more try..what can be effective on curbing gun violence (Original Post) backwoodsbob Jan 2013 OP
You can't retro fit older guns so what upaloopa Jan 2013 #1
in some cases you can backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #3
so what stops us from offering backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #5
I want to keep my old single action .22? upaloopa Jan 2013 #17
keep it backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #20
That's ok I don't want more guns I just like to upaloopa Jan 2013 #22
How about a voluntary one for one trade nick of time Jan 2013 #11
EXACTLY backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #16
And the money could come from the bloated DOD budget. nick of time Jan 2013 #18
EXACTLY backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #21
Set up a buyback program - entice people to part with the old ones. n/t backscatter712 Jan 2013 #25
Would That Not, Sir, Require Removing Existing Guns from the Pool? The Magistrate Jan 2013 #2
Or Better Yet, Throwing Them Into One? TheCowsCameHome Jan 2013 #15
I think that there would have to be a way to retrofit existing weapons Marrah_G Jan 2013 #4
I have posted MANY times elsewhere backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #8
Chopping down the trees to see the forest zipplewrath Jan 2013 #6
Banning guns is not going to happen Marrah_G Jan 2013 #9
you arent going to ban guns backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #10
300 million zipplewrath Jan 2013 #24
so we should do nothing? backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #26
No zipplewrath Jan 2013 #29
no ...we should offer the new smart guns straight up backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #32
How would that work? Taverner Jan 2013 #7
yeah there are some prototypes already out there backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #12
could it be overriden? backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #13
True. IT would reduce numbers Taverner Jan 2013 #14
RFID would be how I'd do it. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #28
I like the fingerprint better... Taverner Jan 2013 #31
RFID tags can be encrypted. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #33
And I can beat encryption Taverner Jan 2013 #35
The brute force approach... How much time have you got?? backscatter712 Jan 2013 #40
Loaning out the tag... backscatter712 Jan 2013 #42
When it works, I'll be interested. aikoaiko Jan 2013 #19
they are close backwoodsbob Jan 2013 #23
There's no technical reason why this technology wouldn't work. backscatter712 Jan 2013 #27
We need to hold accountable irresponsible ownership!! Puzzledtraveller Jan 2013 #30
^^^This^^^. nick of time Jan 2013 #36
Legalize pot, mandate its use demwing Jan 2013 #34
Weapon Shops of Isher One_Life_To_Give Jan 2013 #37
Sure biometrics would work, but what about the millions of guns Rex Jan 2013 #38
Probably best start witht his is putting it on the free market Johonny Jan 2013 #39
And the militias and the gangs will all come in and trade in their untraceable guns DevonRex Jan 2013 #41
The main drivers of all violence are the drug war, poverty/lack of opportunity, and women being TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #43
Legalize drugs. That will solve most gun violence. GreenStormCloud Jan 2013 #44
 

nick of time

(651 posts)
11. How about a voluntary one for one trade
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:34 PM
Jan 2013

coupled with a national buyback offer for those that don't want one of the new RFID guns?
It won't rid us of all the old ones, but it would rid us of millions of the older non RFID guns.
Just a thought thrown out there.

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
16. EXACTLY
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:45 PM
Jan 2013

if I'm offered a new winchester .300 swm with smart gun straight up for my non smart one I'll jump at it.

If it costs us 10,,20...50 billion...who cares.In the long run we save a shit ton of money and we save TONS of lives.

The Magistrate

(95,381 posts)
2. Would That Not, Sir, Require Removing Existing Guns from the Pool?
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:24 PM
Jan 2013

The things do not age out like many mechanical appliances, at least not if some routine maintenance is invested.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
4. I think that there would have to be a way to retrofit existing weapons
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jan 2013

Also cost would be a factor because alot of rural poor use hunting to supplement their diets.

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
8. I have posted MANY times elsewhere
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:30 PM
Jan 2013

take a billion or so from the MIC to perfect the tech and then offer a straight up trade....what...we pay ten billion in a one time shot to stop what is hundreds of billions in costs?

It's a win win

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
6. Chopping down the trees to see the forest
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:29 PM
Jan 2013

I'm afraid this really misses the larger problem. The solid truth is that just about anything "short" of a fairly agressive gun "ban" isn't going to change much in this country. Guns don't cause violent behavior, they enable it. Guns "reveal" our violent culture. We're going to have to change our culture away from a violent one. Once that is achieved, then we can actually talk about how to reduce the number and availability of guns. Once we stop believing that guns are the "answer" to anything, then we can talk about their "reduction" or elimination.

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
10. you arent going to ban guns
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:32 PM
Jan 2013

the second isn't going to be overturned.

We have to look at the most effective solutions and I believe smart gun tech is it.

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
29. No
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:33 PM
Jan 2013

We shouldn't be making MORE guns though.

We passed an assault weapons ban before. What'd we get?

It expired. The dems lost the House (some claim for other reasons). The NRA only got stronger. Gun sales soared. And study after study was unable to determine that it accomplished anything with respect to violence.

"Doing something" can result in unintended consequences.

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
32. no ...we should offer the new smart guns straight up
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:42 PM
Jan 2013

turn in your remington 30.06 for a new version with smart gun tech.

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
12. yeah there are some prototypes already out there
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:36 PM
Jan 2013

when you buy the gun you get id'd to the gun and it will only fire for you.If you ever sell the gun you have to go to a ffl and have the gun *fingerprint* changed to the new owner.

There are several techs trying this right now but it is isnt perfected yet....that's why I said lets steal a few billion from the MIC to perfect it

 

backwoodsbob

(6,001 posts)
13. could it be overriden?
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:37 PM
Jan 2013

I'm sure if someone tries hard enough anything can be beaten,but this would go a HUGE way towards solving this shit.

 

Taverner

(55,476 posts)
14. True. IT would reduce numbers
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 01:41 PM
Jan 2013

Which is the best you can hope for


I have a friend who makes weapons as a hobby.

He made a fully auto Kalshnikov copy. Cost him $30.

Granted, it would be all black market, but they would be out there.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
28. RFID would be how I'd do it.
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:30 PM
Jan 2013

The gun's owner has an RFID tag, which can be on a ring, or a card in his wallet, or even an implant under your skin about the size of a grain of rice.

The firearm would have an RFID reader that would attempt to query the tag before allowing an interlock mechanism to unlock, enabling the gun to fire. If the reader doesn't detect the tag (there's a range of about 6 feet, depending on the tag and the reader), the interlock engages, and the gun will not fire.

 

Taverner

(55,476 posts)
31. I like the fingerprint better...
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:41 PM
Jan 2013

RFID cards can be forged...and it would have to be implanted in your skin or you could just loan out your gun and RFID

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
33. RFID tags can be encrypted.
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:44 PM
Jan 2013

Which makes it very hard to clone such an RFID tag.

Even fingerprint scanners can be fooled.

 

Taverner

(55,476 posts)
35. And I can beat encryption
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:13 PM
Jan 2013

Granted it would take me a while - but all you need is something that can fsk (not fsck) a code (that is try multiple tries in succession.)

On the other hand, you can also falsify a fingerprint or retina. And it's a bit easier than fsking a code.

So I don't know...

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
40. The brute force approach... How much time have you got??
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:32 PM
Jan 2013

Granted, there are a few RFID tags on the market with flawed encryption (like Mifare) that can be cracked, and if you're talking about passively powered RFID, cryptography can't get too fancy with the power constraints, but the most recent generation of RFID tag crypto is pretty hard to crack.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
42. Loaning out the tag...
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 05:25 PM
Jan 2013

A potential issue, but at the same time, people have been putting locks on things since the beginning of technology, and while locks get circumvented and keys get stolen or copied, most people aren't going to support removing the locks from their car so you could start the engine and drive off without the keys, or support removing the locks from their homes so they can enter without a key. Sure locks sometimes break, but people usually decide the benefits of locks are worth that risk.

What's hard about the concept of requiring a key to unlock a gun before you can do something dangerous with it, like shooting it. Granted, for self defense, you want the lock in your gun to be something that can be unlocked quickly in a emergency. And it should be reasonably hard to defeat the lock for an unauthorized shooter. That's why many cops use holsters that require a trick to release the pistol from the holster, so some violent douchebag can't easily steal his gun and use it against him.

Besides, you might want to let your friend shoot your gun, so there should be a legitimate way to do this.

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
27. There's no technical reason why this technology wouldn't work.
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:28 PM
Jan 2013

The gun-fetishists howl that if a technology doesn't work absolutely perfectly 100% of the time, it's completely unacceptable.

Except guns themselves don't work perfectly 100% of the time. They jam, springs wear out and cause them to not fire, cartridges don't feed right from the magazine, barrels get dirty, bearings get worn. On occasions, guns even explode. I've never seen a gun that absolutely fires every time you pull the trigger. Every firearm I've owned and seen can malfunction. But the gun-fetishists say that's OK - you just have to learn to take care of your gun.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
30. We need to hold accountable irresponsible ownership!!
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 02:34 PM
Jan 2013

You don't properly lock up your guns or use child safety devices you need to be bare some responsibility. Civily, and criminaly if your gun(s) registered or not can be traced back to you and proven that you knowingly and willingly provided firearms for the comission of a crime.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
34. Legalize pot, mandate its use
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:06 PM
Jan 2013

people will be too chill to shoot.

Joking, but serious. We are a fucking stressed out, heavily armed society. That's a damned lethal combo.

Less stress and anger = less violence of all kinds.

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
37. Weapon Shops of Isher
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:18 PM
Jan 2013

A novel by A. E. van Vogt

Interesting premise the standard gun would only fire in the hand of the rightful owner and only in self defense.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
38. Sure biometrics would work, but what about the millions of guns
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:20 PM
Jan 2013

out there now in circulation? Do you do a 1-for-1 swap? How would it work? I agree, the owner(s) being the only one to use the weapon would make a world of difference imo.

Johonny

(21,197 posts)
39. Probably best start witht his is putting it on the free market
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:30 PM
Jan 2013

and seeing if gun owners will start buying them over guns without the technology. Once they are in the market place it would be easier over time to replace the entire market place.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
41. And the militias and the gangs will all come in and trade in their untraceable guns
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 03:59 PM
Jan 2013

for these. Uh huh. And so will all those nutty militia wannabes who stand around their local gun stores and talk about the gubmint wantin' to confiscate all their guns. How they'll never register their weapons. Oh yeah, they'll all rush right in and get with the program.

TheKentuckian

(25,132 posts)
43. The main drivers of all violence are the drug war, poverty/lack of opportunity, and women being
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 06:30 PM
Jan 2013

viewed as essentially sex toy livestock by too many.
Probably in that order but you can box that trifecta for certain.

End the drug war, fight poverty like it is existential war (and it is), and get serious about abuse and violence would plummet.

The rest of it is worrying about what flavor your cough drops are when you have lung cancer.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
44. Legalize drugs. That will solve most gun violence.
Thu Jan 17, 2013, 06:57 PM
Jan 2013

Ban the MSM from publishing the name of mass killers. Rampage killings are done for media attention. Deny them that coverage and after a couple of events with the name of the guy blacked out and the others will get the idea.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»ok guys one more try..wha...