'Don't Be That Guy' ad campaign cuts Vancouver sex assaults by 10 per cent in 2011

[Recursion]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/dont-be-that-guy-ad-campaign-cuts-vancouver-sex-assaults-by-10-per-cent-in-2011/article1359241/

The message on the poster is blunt. A young woman in red tights and a skimpy black dress is flaked out on the edge of a couch, her head turned away. A few wine bottles are on the floor.

“Just because she isn’t saying no doesn’t mean she is saying yes,” the poster says. “Sex without consent = sexual assault. Don’t Be That Guy.”

The poster is one of three that went up at bars and around the city last summer as part of a campaign to chip away at the increasing rate of sexual assaults in recent years in Vancouver.

Six months later, Deputy Chief Doug LePard says the Don’t Be That Guy campaign has contributed to a turnaround in statistics on sexual offences in Vancouver.

Vancouver gets it, and it seems to work. For anyone who thinks anti-rape ads aimed at, you know, the men who actually commit rape are a waste of time.

[marions ghost]

1. Good idea & obviously effective

...sometimes you have to beat stupid people over the head with the truth.

[NewJeffCT]

2. Bill O'Reilly would say she was asking for it

by wearing the tights and skimpy dress...

Hopefully, that kind of thinking is dying off as Bill's audience ages.

[sakabatou]

13. Limbaugh would be saying it over and over.

[JackBoik]

85. Yup. Only that he'd throw in the word "slut" for good measure

[etherealtruth]

59. Sadly, so would some right here on DU

(an admitted minority but they always seem to show up)

[Heidi]

3. Kick!

[AtheistCrusader]

4. Putting the burden where it belongs.

With the aggressor, not the victim. Good work.

[Nye Bevan]

5. I like that a lot better than that snarky 10-point poster that keeps popping up here.

Simple and direct, and seems to work.

[bettyellen]

10. it's certainly mild enough to offend men less, shying away from using the word rape

simply admonishing the man not to "be that guy" instead of referring to possible punishment. very clever to soften the message without diluting it.

but you do realize it has a different message than the ten point poster though, right? the poster was about the messages we send women, and how we don't educate men about rape. remember how many men were upset about the idea of educating men about rape- how insulted they assumed they would be? now, this new poster is the result of thinking about those ten points, and i doubt it would offend anyone. although this being DU.....

[BlancheSplanchnik]

71. ...

!!!!

[tavalon]

91. I love that poster

Somebody post it. I don't have it in front of me. So spot on.

[Whisp]

11. so snark offends you more than the whole meaning of that poster?

ok, strange, but ok.

[Nye Bevan]

14. No, snark does not offend me in the least.

I don't find the 10-point poster in any way offensive. My point is that the "Don't be that guy" poster seems to be better in that it has actually been effective in reducing rape.

[LanternWaste]

108. I suppose if we saw results of both posters

"My point is that the "Don't be that guy" poster seems to be better in that it has actually been effective in reducing rape...."

I suppose if we saw results of both posters being placed in the same area though at separate times and observed, measured and tested the results, we could then say one works better (or just as well) than the other in reducing rape. However, without doing this, all we can do, at best, is guess...

[tavalon]

92. It's not snarky, it's brutally honest

Subtle difference, I know, but.....

[JDPriestly]

6. Where they place the posters may be as important as what they say.

Also, they remind both men and women. And the man knows the woman has been reminded.

[knightmaar]

9. It does a lot

It educates the men.
It warns the women.
It deputizes the bystanders.
It warns the real assholes that we're watching.

[BlueMTexpat]

99. Great explanation!

Welcome to DU!

[Odin2005]

7. + Infinity!

[progressoid]

8. Rec.

[derby378]

12. Nicely done

Judgement and restraint tend to dissipate when the BAC climbs, but "Don't Be That Guy" is simple enough for even the biggest lush to remember.

[Nye Bevan]

15. +1 nt

[fishiefish]

16. "That guy"? Too vague

It basically indicts all men.

[Recursion]

17. No, not really. Just that guy.

The guilty flee when none pursueth.

[fishiefish]

19. Who the hell is "that guy"?

[seabeyond]

30. "that guy" that would rape "that woman". nt

[mythology]

49. In this case,

it's the guy getting a woman to drunk to consent and then forcing himself on her.

It doesn't indict all men. It indicts the guy who does that. If it were indicting men in general it might say "don't be a guy"

[Skittles]

87. probably you

[jollyreaper2112]

104. It's vernacular

"That guy" is the guy no guy wants to be.

The guy who gets drunker than everyone else at the wedding, party, family event, passed out and looking like an ass.

The guy you hear women talking about as coming across as creeper/stalker/perv instead of a suitable bloke.

The guy who ruins it for everyone else.

The guy who throws up on the amusement park ride.

It's all about a negative image, either through a personal failing in keeping your cool or an egregious breach of social behavior.

"That guy" doesn't get to have his side of the story, it doesn't matter. He's clearly in the wrong and the only question is whether he realizes it. Any observer sees it clearly.

Nobody wants to be "that guy."

[gollygee]

18. How does specifying "that guy" indict all men?

Please proceed.

[Nye Bevan]

20. Nope. "Don't be that guy" is actually extremely specific. (nt)

[fishiefish]

21. define "that guy"

[gollygee]

22. That guy who would see that girl and rape her

as opposed to the majority of guys who would see that girl and not rape her.

[fishiefish]

23. Then they should say "Don't be a rapist"

[gollygee]

24. Their marketers decided to take a different route

However it's still accurate. "That guy" = "rapist" in this case. The word "that" makes it specific. If it had said, "Don't be a guy" then it would be an indictment of all men.

[Recursion]

25. "Don't be that guy" is a phrase in standard usage. "Don't be a rapist" is not.

Marketing 101. Tie your "product" (in this case, not raping women) to something people already like (in this case, the movie "PCU&quot .

Edit: PCU, not High Fidelity

[fishiefish]

26. Thank you for proving my point

"that guy" is a homogenous term that basically means "any guy" or "everyman".

[Recursion]

28. Well, no. In "PCU" it specifically meant

the guy who wears the t-shirt of the band to the concert of that band. In fact, it's the opposite of "any guy". It's a douchebag.

Urbandictionary backs me up here: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=That+Guy

Edit: PCU, not High Fidelity

[fishiefish]

35. Oh urbandictionary

The very definition of cool!

So a rapist by definition is going to be somebody who is an outcast, somebody that the cool kids would label a douchebag. "That guy" has overtones that the male in question will be a social outcast or loner.

[gollygee]

37. Oh well by all means if one man is offended

then the whole campaign, which has caused a 10% drop in the rate of sexual assault (!), should be done away with. We wouldn't want to offend you.

[Recursion]

40. Here

[yardwork]

29. Not to me, it doesn't. "Don't be that guy" has a very specific meaning.

As explained elsewhere in this thread.

[fishiefish]

39. Do me a favor and specifically tell me what flickr means here in their TOS

When they say, "Don't be that guy" Because I really have no idea. Must be some Vancouver thing, because the creators of flickr are also from Vancouver. I really don't know who "that guy" is.

Flickr accounts are intended for members to share original photos and video that they themselves have created.

The following Community Guidelines are here to help you understand what it means to be a member of Flickr. Don't forget that your use of Flickr is subject to these Guidelines and our Terms of Service.
What to do

Do play nice.
We're a global community of many types of people, who all have the right to feel comfortable and who may not think what you think, believe what you believe or see what you see. So, be polite and respectful in your interactions with other members.
Do upload content that you've created.
Respect the copyright of others. This means don't steal photos or videos that other people have shared and pass them off as your own. (That’s what favorites are for.)
Do moderate your content.
All content on Flickr, public and private, has to be appropriately moderated as “safe,” “moderate,” or “restricted” using our safety and content filters. If your judgment proves to be poor, we’ll moderate your account to match appropriate ratings for safe search and/or content type and send you a warning.
Do link back to Flickr when you post your Flickr content elsewhere.
Flickr makes it possible to post content hosted on Flickr to other web sites. However, pages on other web sites that display content hosted on flickr.com must provide a link from each photo or video back to its page on Flickr. This provides a way to get more information about the content and the photographer.
Do enjoy Flickr!
See the world through others’ eyes, participate, find your muse, and expand your horizons!

What not to do

Here’s the deal: We like to give second chances. However, stepping across any of the lines listed below may result in account deletion with or without warning.

Don’t upload anything that isn't yours.
This includes other people's photos, video, and/or stuff you've copied or collected from around the Internet. Accounts that consist primarily of such collections may be deleted at any time.
Don’t forget the children.
If you would hesitate to show your photos or videos to a child, your mum, or Uncle Bob, that means you need to set the appropriate content filter setting. If you don’t, your account will be moderated and possibly deleted by Flickr staff.
Don’t show nudity in your buddy icon.
Only content considered "safe" is appropriate for your buddy icon. If we find that you've uploaded a buddy icon that contains inappropriate content, we'll remove the buddy icon, mark your account as “restricted” and send you a warning. If we find you doing it again, we’ll delete your account.
Don’t upload content that is illegal or prohibited.
If we find you doing that, your account will be deleted and we'll take appropriate action, which may include reporting you to the authorities.
Don’t vent your frustrations, rant, or bore the brains out of other members.
Flickr is not a venue for you to harass, abuse, impersonate, or intimidate others. If we receive a valid complaint about your conduct, we’ll send you a warning or delete your account.
Don’t be creepy.
You know the guy. Don't be that guy.

http://www.flickr.com/help/guidelines/

[yardwork]

44. It means that they don't want anybody to "harass, abuse, impersonate, or intimidate others."

"Don't be that guy" means don't be the creepy person. The one that everybody talks about and who gets arrested by the FBI (or whatever the Canadian equivalent is) and gets his picture on the front page of the local news. You know, that guy.

[fishiefish]

45. define creepy

[yardwork]

46. You know what? You're being that guy.

[fishiefish]

47. So now you are calling me a rapist...

stay classy.

[mythology]

52. I'm pretty sure that they were using this definition of the phrase that guy

"It means that they don't want anybody to "harass, abuse, impersonate, or intimidate others.""

You know, from Flickr that you brought up.

[fishiefish]

53. yes, which is extremely vague

and all encompassing

[XemaSab]

106. +1

n/t

[Recursion]

58. Nothing is creepier than the guy...

... demanding "creepy" be defined.

[tavalon]

94. You

[LanternWaste]

109. A little trouble with Predicates and Objects of the Adjectives?

I can only imagine you missed the day in HS grammar class when Predicates and Objects of the Adjectives were taught.

Grammar's not really that hard, and with only minor reading of school-level text books on your part, you too may have the opportunity to enjoy reading with more clarity!

[deutsey]

97. Yep...I've heard "Don't be that guy" used for many years now

As you point out, mostly in reference to the kind of guy who wears a band's T shirt to one of their concerts, but I've heard it applied to other commonly frowned-upon behaviors as well.

[seabeyond]

32. lots of men get pissed with that one also, saying it is saying ALL men are rapists

and that it ought to be more specific. personally, i am hearing that the issue should not be addressed because regardless of what is said SOME men will say it is saying ALL men are rapists.

[Autumn]

36. I think that the 'Don't Be That Guy' ad campaign seems to be working

very well. "Don't be a rapist" just doesn't resonate. Because most men won't want to be "that guy". A 10% drop in 6 months is rather good. Welcome to DU.

[bettyellen]

41. Now YOU'RE being "that guy"

That wastes everyone's time with bullshit and pretends to help, but is actually just here to disrupt.

There's one on every thread.

[fishiefish]

42. Thanks for proving my point.

[bettyellen]

43. You don't have a point, you're just playing stupid.

[yardwork]

50. +1

[bettyellen]

57. Has anyone ever pretended to know what "that" means before?

No one is "that" stupid.

[Sissyk]

62. "that" fishy one is.

"that" stupid, I mean.

[yardwork]

73. Aaaaaaand he's gone. 23 posts.

[Aerows]

65. Amen

There has to be a troll in every crowd that is too thick headed to get the picture. That's pretty much why they are "that guy", because they are incapable of getting it.

[Skittles]

88. proably you

[Arcanetrance]

27. Really that guy = a rapist plain and simple

I'm a guy i'm fine with the message only an idiot or someone trying to be obtuse would take its meaning as vague

[fishiefish]

31. I disagree

That guy generically means all males that fall outside the norm for societal conventions. In the past, "that guy" meant a nerd or an outcast. That guy means a male who isn't in the cool kid clique. The ad feeds into the notion that it's going to be some "creepy guy" that rapes you. When statistics show it will more than likely be a close acquaintance.

The ad itself has sexist overtones, why didn't they use a woman who was say 160 lbs.? Or a woman in sweatpants?

[seabeyond]

33. calif guy means everyone male or female. so are they accusing everyone of being rapists? nt

[Odin2005]

101. Minnesota, too.

"guy" has become gender neutral because of the influence of the use of "you guys" as a 2nd person plural pronoun.

[seabeyond]

103. yup... nt

[Arcanetrance]

34. Using your logic of societal conventions the ad is still appropriate

Societal convention is not to rape a fucking drunk person period. It doesn't imply a creepy guy doing the raping even though if your gonna rape you sure as hell are pretty damn creepy. What would you prefer it say if you had your way?

[bettyellen]

63. No. You're just making shit up, not fooling anyone.

Does doing this shit actually make you feel better about yourself? It's really pretty sad to watch.

[tavalon]

95. Or a troll

Like you.

[Kalidurga]

38. and i doubt it would offend anyone. although this being DU.....

and look who shows up as if on cue.

[redqueen]

48. Incorrect. "That" guy = a certain type of guy/a member of a particular subset of guys.

"A" guy = any guy/a member of the set made up of all guys.

[fishiefish]

51. That guy is slang for a male outsider

It implies that a rapist will look like a creepy guy who is a social outcast, when in fact most rape victims know their victims and rapist can look like anybody.

[redqueen]

54. What you just posted contains nothing remotely resembling logic.

You are so far past wrong, you're in 'are you actually serious?' territory.

Good luck. Adios.

[Ellipsis]

55. Are you a troll?

Last edited Wed Jan 30, 2013, 04:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Or is this demeanor just part of your on line personality?




Why yes... yes you were.

[Incitatus]

61. fish away, fishiefish nt

[thucythucy]

76. Well look at that. An entire 15 posts on this OP before

we got one about how any attempt to inhibit potential rapists just has to be a slur on all men.

Yeah, "that guy" "indicts all men"--that is, all men who would have sex (rape) an unconscious woman. Any man who feels included in such company, and thus offended by the message... well, you figure it out.

[Recursion]

81. I was happy for several posts...

... because until then this was the only uniformly positive anti-rape post I'd seen in GD for weeks and weeks. People gotta stir shit, I guess.

[Odin2005]

102. He's "That Guy".

[thucythucy]

105. My thought precisely.

[tavalon]

93. Nope, only that guy who takes a drunk woman as bait.

[Nay]

56. Excellent, and it's one of many reasons I am proud to be a Canadian citizen. nt

[Aerows]

64. Worthwhile

most guys don't want to be "that guy". The ones that do, well, they are going to be buttheads regardless. And there are a few women that will rape, too. As a lesbian, I can attest to that fact, and you won't get through their thick heads that it isn't okay to just grab, grope and grasp.

Some people let their libido over load their better sense, and hurt people along the way.

[JBoy]

66. Thankfully, the fishie has been caught.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300266&sub=trans

[justabob]

67. good to know

I wonder how many people reported him?

[BlancheSplanchnik]

72. I sure would like to know how one reports

When none of a troll's posts have gotten hidden.

I'm curious on account of other equaly disruptive thread bombers who remain to bomb another day.

[yardwork]

74. Two ways to do that.

One is to write directly to somebody on the MIRt team. The list of MIRt members is in Announcements.

The other way is to alert and click TOS violation. That way, even if the troll's posts aren't hidden, the alert will go to Admin and they can take a look.

[bettyellen]

75. And I checked the TOS and asked they look at the thread not just the post....

They left it up anyway...i figured they would... but I knew it would go to Skinner and he's fed up with this crap.
How do I contact Mirt?

[yardwork]

79. The list of folks serving on MIRt is linked below. Just PM one of them.

But I like to use the TOS route myself. Skinner and EarlG often ban trolls even when juries don't hide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10132436

[bettyellen]

84. i know Skinner hates the obvious ones, so I went that route. Tks for the link. Bookmarked!

[BlancheSplanchnik]

110. thanks yardwork

I'll keep that in mind for next time.

[Recursion]

82. You can read the PPR message if you click on him.

I'm a MIRT who bowed out of any consideration of this guy because I locked horns with him in my OP here. We don't catch everybody, ever, but we do our best. You can get more discussion of this (than you will ever want) if you stop by Meta.

[tavalon]

96. I think they leave them as an example to all trolls

It's amusing because we can continue to ridicule his asinine comments and he can't reply until his sockpuppet gets here. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Posteritatis]

68. Wow, an anti-rape campaign that doesn't put the onus on the victims; I'm impressed

It's certainly a step above the "take measures to protect yourself so that guy goes and rapes someone else instead" default.

[Recursion]

69. Me too. I loved this.

And as an added bonus it doesn't (disruptors aside) vilify men. In fact it recruits us: nobody likes That Guy. Say something if you see him. Etc.

[Posteritatis]

70. Definitely. And it's actually connected to some real results, to boot. (nt)

[thucythucy]

77. An effective message effectively placed.

Very well done.

[distantearlywarning]

78. Love it.

It's great to see some people finally placing the burden of responsibility where it belongs - on the offender!

[Recursion]

80. Exactly! And enlisting bystanders

We all know that guy. Nobody likes that guy. Men can speak out about rape. Don't be that guy, and don't let that guy be that guy.

[bettyellen]

86. i think it's good to put out there, so there are expectations of baseline decency... i hate to

say it, but the lines are not clear to everyone. when people see this shit happen and the woman doesn't report it (which is most frequent scenario) some people think that means it was okay. That idea was pretty prevalent years back, and it;s not died out completely.

[Demo_Chris]

83. Excellent ad.

No one wants to be 'that guy' in any context. 'That guy' is that he is never cool, he's always a loser.

Well done

[tclambert]

90. They should try this around college campuses, too.

That's where a lot of young women try alcohol for the first time, and college age guys might push each other to take advantage of that.

It won't stop the more experienced predators who see college campuses as target-rich environments, but it might help cut the rate of date rape.

[mythology]

98. That's impressive

I wouldn't have thought this would be that effective. But I guess it is giving food for thought in reminding men that they have a responsibility and using peer pressure in a good way going against the grain of "everybody" has sex with drunk women.

[Odin2005]

100. So, looks like Evolutionary Psychology is wrong.

Somebody send this to that "men are genetically programmed by evolution to be rapists" idiot.

[seabeyond]

107. i love you... lol. if that isnt a duh, huh? nt