question for muslim duers

[SwampG8r]

i have been aquaited for some time with the rabbi of a chabad community here in my town
they are observant ultraorthodox jews and as such keep very strict kosher kitchens
this interests me as a professional cook for more than 34 years
i have been involved with kosher catering but i have never been involved in a job for muslims which are relatively rare here
does the quoran include dietary laws regarding the keeping and preperations of foods and if it does are they along the same stringent lines of kosher law?
thank you for your responses

[TygrBright]

1. Not a Muslim, but try Googling "halal" n/t

[SwampG8r]

4. i am hoping for a human

interaction not available on google
i can get the facts from google but a person can tell me the truth
i am interested in how the laws are enacted each day and where i as a cash cook can make my food more amenable to more people

i have never had the rabbi in my restaurant despite a mutually respectful relationship because i have foods touching the wrong foods and god will get mad at him lol
we are living in a world where muslim influence is going to be addressed whether we like it or not and i am trying to adress it as it relates to my own reality

[jberryhill]

2. Halal

It's (cue the scary music)... Sharia law.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. If you haven't already, you might want to post this over in the Muslim group too.

[The Straight Story]

5. From what I have heard here - anyone basing diet off of invisible sky fairies is stupid

The only truth is one that we (today, not yesterday or tomorrow) can prove. If we cannot prove it today, it does not exist and people who don't follow those ideals should be made fun of.

Those cultures (savage ones, not the real ones like ours) who have special dietary concerns are silly. Like our forefathers we need to change the cultures we come in contact with, save them from their savage ways, and convert them.

There might be some sarcasm laced in the above post...

[SwampG8r]

6. most of the dietary laws

i have observed are a ritualization of common sense food handling developed at a time when sanitation was an issue
i imagine an average kitchen before refrigeration was available would be unlike the ones we each use
and while the equipment may be missing the need remains
food must be prepared and stored correctly
sky fairies dont enter into it

[boppers]

10. Bingo.

Sky fairies were the justification, but the rules really address diet and health issues that were present at the time a particular sky-fairy's set of "laws" was written.

And yes, there are rules about proper slaughter, storage, utensils, etc... as others mentioned, check out "Halal".

[Tyrs WolfDaemon]

17. Thor laughs at you making fun of him as an 'invisible sky fairy'

and commands you to have a tankard of mead in his honor.

[TygrBright]

18. I can get behind that. Hail Thor! n/t

[Liberty Belle]

7. There are some similarities, yes.

I'm not Muslim but have written about some Muslim-owned markets and restaurants. Halal meat is similar to Kosher, slaughtered as humanely as possible (knife hidden from the animal's view, as opposed to slaughterhouses where they club the poor cow over the head or zap it with stun guns first). The animal is blessed first, and the meat is cured hanging up to remove the blood.

Muslims do not eat pork, and neither do Jews, who consider it unclean.

I don't know if Muslims follow other dietary laws similar to those found in Judaism, such as the Jewish practice of not serinv meat and milk on the same plate. Or whether shellfish is a taboo in Muslim faith, as it is among orthodox Jews.

[boppers]

11. "if Muslims follow other dietary laws similar to those found in Judaism"

Wikipedia to the rescue!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws_compared

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. You have a funny idea of "as humanely as possible"

Stunning the animal first is the humane method; slitting its throat is not ("knife hidden from the animal's view"? Huh? Animals do not have an idea what a knife is, but they do feel pain and distress if their throat is slit while they are conscious; it takes between 10 seconds and 2 minutes for a calf to become insensible after their throat is slit.

Please read a report on religious slaughtering methods:

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?blobcol=urlblob&blobheader=application/pdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=RSPCABlob&blobwhere=1109267162636&ssbinary=true

Thankfully, 90% of halal meat production in the UK does stun the animal first; but they, and kosher methods, are still given a religious exemption from the animal welfare laws that everyone else has to follow.

[mr blur]

16. "knife hidden from the animal's view"?

Oh, well, that's OK then. Very humane.

And, sorry, but you can't remove the Sky Daddy's whims from the equation.

[Ecumenist]

8. Yes, pretty much but Muslims can eat shellfish.

They don't have the same restrictions regarding milk and meat.

[ellisonz]

9. Believe it or not...

Wiki actually has a page comparing Jewish and Islamic dietary restrictions:

Similarities

Swine is prohibited by both sets of laws.[1][2]
Many animals permitted in kashrut are also halal, such as bovines.[3][4]
Kashrut forbids and halal strictly forbids the consumption of amphibians such as frogs.[5]
Almost all insects are not kosher. The few kosher insects are specific types of locusts and grasshoppers which are not eaten today in most communities, since it is unknown which species is permitted (the exception being the Yemenite Jews, who claim to have preserved this knowledge).[6] It is also a consensus among Muslim scholars that all insects are forbidden except for locusts.[7][8]
To be kosher, aquatic animals must have scales and fins. Most Muslim schools of thought adhere to the interpretation that all creatures from the ocean or the sea are considered halal.[1][9] Hanafi Sunnis (who comprise the majority of Muslims) follow essentially the same laws as Kashrut, believing that only fish with scales and fins are halal. Shi'ites also follow this, but make an exception with some crustaceans; shrimps and prawns are halal).[8] According to Jewish oral law all fish that have scales have fins, thus making all fish with scales kosher and rendering the law essentially the same as dhabiha halal.[10][11][12]
Gelatin is only permissible if it comes from a permissible animal (usually kosher gelatin comes from the bones of kosher fish[citation needed], or is a vegan substitute[citation needed]).
Cheese is permissible so long as the rennet used to make the cheese is permissible.[citation needed]

Differences

For a substance to be halal, it must not contain alcohol of any kind. However, there is a difference drawn between the addition of alcohol to foods which is absolutely forbidden, and the small quantities that naturally become present - such as orange juice. Except for grape wine and grape juice (which must be manufactured under Jewish supervision), Kashrut allows the consumption of any sort of alcohol, as long as it has kosher ingredients (including any unsupervised grape extracts).[5][13]
The list of animals forbidden by kashrut is more restrictive, as kashrut requires that, to be kosher, mammals must chew cud and must have cloven hooves. Dhabiha halal only requires that an animal survive on grass and leaves. Thus, various animals, such as the camel, are permissible as per dhabiha halal, but not according to kashrut.[1][4]
Kashrut prohibits shellfish, such as lobster, shrimp, clams, and oysters.[14] Sunni (non-Hanafi) interpretations of halal permit the consumption of all seafood. Hanafis follow exactly the same laws as Kashrut, believing only fish with fins from the oceans are permissible, whereas shellfish, lobsters, etc. aren't. However, there is some difference of opinion amogst some Hanafis about the permissibility of shrimp. Shia interpretations (following Ja'fari jurisprudence) also prohibits the consumption of shellfish (with the exception of shrimps and prawns).[8]

More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws

Saw your post in Islam Group.

[boppers]

12. LOL, added the same link before scrolling down. :) eom

[ellisonz]

13. It's...

...kosher.

[boppers]

14. <meta>Let's argue for thousands of years about it! </meta> eom

[harun]

19. Some input

Much as with the Jewish community there are differences with Muslim's following different levels (strictness) of halal.

In a restaurant/catering setting your best bet would be to offer halal meat. Then ensure you aren't using any pork products in any dishes (lard, etc.). No bacon bits on salads, even if they aren't meat (soy), since most people won't know the difference. Many won't eat shellfish but regular fish is fine.

Most of the people I know are pretty reasonable with it. If you are making an honest effort at providing a halal meal and they are making an honest effort in ordering one they usually won't fuss about too many of the details. Of course you'll find exceptions to that rule though rarely.

[SwampG8r]

20. i work the pit in my restaurant

i cook the meats and fish also some vegetables
i know the ultra orthodox of any faith will not usually find a restaurant setting suitable
but many faithful laypeople will and i try to set myself so that when they do
and they do often
that i make an effort to keep an area clean for fish and an area for beef etc
i dont change what i do except i incorporate common concerns into my mis en place
my job is to drop a plate you will go yummmmm to'if you sit there and wonder did this touch that? then it removes at least 3 m's from that yummmmm
just like my jewish regulars know i dont cook the pork chops where i cook the chicken breasts
or use the same tongs to touch it or knives to cut it
i want my muslim regulars to have that same knowledge
the 3 m's are impotant to me

[waddirum]

21. Check out the Tom Robbins book "Skiny Legs and All"

Here is the Amazon book description:

"An Arab and a Jew open a restaurant together across the street from the United Nations…

It sounds like the beginning of an ethnic joke, but it’s the axis around which spins Tom Robbins’s gutsy, fun-loving, and alarmingly provocative new novel, in which a bean can philosophizes, a dessert spoon mystifies, a young waitress takes on the New York art world, and a rowdy redneck welder discovers the lost god of Palestine—while the illusions that obscure humanity’s view of the true universe fall away, one by one, like Salome’s veils.

Skinny Legs and All deals, in Robbins’s audacious manner, with today’s most sensitive issues: race, politics, marriage, art, religion, money, and lust. It weaves lyrically through what some call the “end days of our planet. Refusing to avert its gaze from the horrors of the apocalypse, it also refuses to let the alleged end of the world spoil its mood. And its mood is defiantly upbeat.

In the gloriously inventive Tom Robbins style, here are characters, phrases, stories, and ideas that dance together on the page, wild and sexy, like Salome herself.

Or was it Jezebel?"

[SwampG8r]

22. u are my new friend

i read constantly
i just was at a meet and greet yesterday in melbourne beach for tim dorsey
robbins is a fave too
thanks much

[waddirum]

23. back at you

Where is your restaurant? I'm hungry.

[SwampG8r]

24. by a tiny bridge in palm shores florida

[Alameda]

25. Not quite as stringent as Kashrut, but similar.

There are a few sites online that go over what is and is not halal. BTW Dhabiha is the method of slaughter. Halal means permissible. Of course there are different schools of thought on what is allowed and what is not. Things like crab, shrimp, shellfish are not allowed in some, and allowed in others. If you want to be safe, avoid serving it.
As for alcohol, of course Muslims don't drink, but cooking with it is allowed in some schools. The reasoning is the actual alcohol is removed in the cooking process. That causes problems with things like extracts like vanilla, almond and other flavorings. Things like gelatine can sneak into foods if one uses prepared flavorings. In general, I buy Kosher products in order to avoid contamination

The animal has to be healthy, and slaughtered with kindness and compassion. If the knife is razor sharp and it is done properly, the animal has minimal discomfort. I know when I have cut myself at times I didn't even know it until later.

A pot, pan or knife has to be washed at least 7 times to be clean. If you are going to have pork in a place where you will want to serve Muslims, it has to be separated, different pans, knives and all.

The process of certification is relatively new, as Muslim population has grown and the need has grown Here is a link to more information.
http://www.ifanca.org/guide/
Things to watch out for are flavorings, who knows what is in there.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

26. You have to wash each load of dishes 7 times?

I could not deal with that.

A pot, pan or knife has to be washed at least 7 times to be clean.

[Alameda]

27. Seven times IF they have been used for nonhalal products, or rather to purify them before using them

for halal foods. The seven times is not just general washing of the pots, pans, dishes and all. To be clean, items the last rinse should be with potable water.