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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums2 Torrington CT HS football players charged with raping 13 year old. Victim bullied on social media
Two Torrington High School football players stand accused of sexual assault of a 13-year-old girl. Four others were suspended in a hazing scandal last fall that is still under investigation. One player, the teams second-highest scorer last fall, was allowed to play even though the teams coach knew he had been charged with felony robbery and assault.
School officials claim that the sexual assault charges against 18-year-olds Edgar Gonzalez and Joan Toribio, the hazing and other incidents are isolated problems and dont signal a deeper issue with the culture of Torrington High School, its athletic programs or football team.
Athletic Director Mike McKenna said, If you think theres some wild band of athletes that are wandering around then I think youre mistaken.
<snip>
But on social media in recent weeks, dozens of athletes and Torrington High School students, male and female, have taunted the 13-year-old victim, calling her a whore, criticizing her for snitching and ruining the lives of the 18-year-old football players, and bullying students who defend her.
<snip>
http://www.registercitizen.com/articles/2013/03/20/news/doc51493e14b1a0a944806262.txt
knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)That poor girl. May she know that there are many students standing with her, though they may not be as loud. May someone on that football team have the balls to stand up to his comrades and tell them to shut up.
cali
(114,904 posts)about the culture that's grown up around "valuable" high school athletes- particularly football players.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)superbowl?
you too can rape if you make it to a superbowl.
Upton
(9,709 posts)the last time the Steelers were in the Super Bowl was 2010...and Roethisberger, no matter what you may think of him, has never been convicted of rape.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Orrex
(63,234 posts)Last edited Wed Mar 20, 2013, 07:15 PM - Edit history (1)
In other words, because accusation equals guilt?
He's an asshole for a host of reasons. This is evident from a broad base of publicly available information.
He may also be a rapist. He has certainly been accused of rape.
I'm simply curious as to how you can declare that he is a rapist with such certainty.
Iggo
(47,578 posts)He's just not a convicted rapist.
cali
(114,904 posts)lied about it....
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Botany
(70,614 posts).... took place with bleach as the victim ran to the police in tears. And besides
what kind of a scum bucket of a man follows a women into the restroom?
Upton
(9,709 posts)I'm just saying that since he's never been convicted, technically he's not a rapist. Opinions are one thing, facts are another.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)did not rape. what absurdity is that.
cali
(114,904 posts)doesn't mean he's not a rapist.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Here they never think about how condemning summarily jeopardizes their own rights.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)rather than excused.
it is this very culture that allows people to attack this girl who has been RAPED by 18 yr olds and now called a whore.
every person that bought a ticket to that mans game is part of the problem.
every person that watches one of polanskis movie is part of the problem
RevStPatrick
(2,208 posts)...a few months ago, I am "part of the problem."
Oy fuckin' vey!!!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)at the Oscars.
RevStPatrick
(2,208 posts)Is it?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)instead of celebrated at the oscars.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)our household does avoid putting any money into Polanski's pockets.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)is exactly what republicans do.
Authoritarians love rules and put them (and the underlying ideology) above the people they affect, whether they are just or not.
Dorian Gray
(13,503 posts)we don't know for sure whether he is guilty or not. But if he sexually assaulted her and penetrated, he is, indeed a rapist. Conviction doesn't change reality.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)knitter4democracy
(14,350 posts)At the very least, the coaching staff should be dealt with.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)our rape culture all us women and girls live in is necessary. how dare she be bothered, she was raped.
so what a coach does is not weasel away from the crime, but call it out. that simple. or he is part of the problem.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)\AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
At Wed Mar 20, 2013, 10:50 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
i guess since there is so much denial toward the rape culture, here on du. the continual story
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2540410
REASON FOR ALERT:
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)
ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
I have no seen any denial of rape or the rape culture on DU. I understand the anger at the men who raped this girl, but why include all of DU in your anger? I have not seen anyone denying this or the Stuebenville rape either one were not rape or giving a pass to the rapists.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Mar 20, 2013, 10:56 AM, and the Jury voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The denial is limited, but it's there.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If you think this is a slam to all DU, you are delusional.
Grow up- it's not all about you.
Frivolous alert - stop trying to shut sown conversation just because you don't like it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: There was really no call to indict DU with this post. Hide.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Seabeyond has an opinion about DU that is within bounds. If you have a different opinion, please post in the thread and engage the other poster. This post is not disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Agree with the Alerter. "Denial toward rape culture here on DU". Well, I would suggest that if you take such issue with DU, you pack your things and GTFO. Good to know that the rest of us DUers are such low creatures in comparison to you.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)posts. in concentrated locations.
thanks. funny. and interesting.
aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)the denial is here for sure
and yet, it seems less than years ago back on DU2, when I and a LOT of DU feminists got banned for being too loud about misogyny (imo)
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)so, i am
lol
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)sometimes, I'm on my mobile and it craps out.
Back then, it did seem like the "lady-baiting" was even worse (not that it's great now)..... At least now you can say what you mean generally, without having to tiptoe around a point because you might get whacked for calling someone out.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)but also, that is a decade of hearing us not shut up
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)Coaches "look out" for their "boys", no matter how old those "boys" are.
They get them test-takers so they can remain eligible
They get them pud courses so they can have plenty of time off for the important things..like practices
They look the other way when their star athletes "misbehave"
I've seen it up close & personal in college (dated some football players)
The tragic preoccupation with sports, has created a monster..That monster is worshiped and forgiven of most transgressions.. why? because they have the athletic ability to make shitloads of money for their "owners". As long as they perform in the arena/on the field they are "untouchable" (unless they shoot themselves in the leg with an unlicensed gun..
It's RARE for athletes to be punished for rape/assault.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)They were saying SHE should be punished but the boys were just being boys. Just shows that words and concepts mean nothing unless they are put into practice in communities. You can talk all you want about it not being about the victim, that rape is a crime of violence, but still these young people blame the child victim and say "boys will be boys" and question why she would be around them in the first place (asking for it). Until communities really stand behind the words they won't mean anything. Until communities cease to have preferred classes of children that are protected to the detriment of others; nothing changes.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)or young girls, IMO. Since when is it okay for 18 yr-old young men to rape 13 yr old girls? How is this normal "boys will be boys" behavior?
Meanwhile, there is social media "wilding" in regards to the victim. I guess that's just "kids being kids" if raping children is just "boys being boys."
It sickens me how people react to rape victims, particularly when that victim is a young child, who doesn't have the emotional and mental capacity that adult rape victims have (who have trouble overcoming their rapes as adults).
gollygee
(22,336 posts)To suggest this is typical behavior or should be accepted as typical behavior for them.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)If that's the attitude in Torrington, CT, towards boys or men, you have to wonder just what the boys/men are up to there.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)is the insult when those words are used. the offense. and not only to women. to ALL our men and boys.
when anyone uses them for the cutsey comments, it is also for the not so cutsey.
i wanted to post this here also. since you posted the boys will be boys. i had this in another thread. i think it is really important, all those men adn some women that use this garbage to explain "behaviors" as if it is valid, reaches to these behaviors. adn that is why is is so offensive when a man will give us this shit. and it should be that much more offenisve to all men. i know it is to my boys.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,047 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and the stupid attacks on something they narrowed down to "pc." either we progress or we regress as a society, and clearly the GOP wants the latter. congratulations, GOP i guess rape is also a republicon family value.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)that are the norms now in this society are pathologically anti-feminine.
Even the common usage of "d....bag" is rooted in disgust towards female-ness.
I'm FUCKING SICK OF IT.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)same posters show up on threads like these to decry this treatment of the girl. while mocking the attempt to give an understanding how our culture evolved to this.
the hypocrisy and just plain stupid is blinding.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)snidely...in ways that seem acceptable. It's not so hard to debunk them, but without clear analysis, most people miss the method of attack. At best, one would be left with a hard to describe feeling of unease.
It's the kind of fight-picking that you would never see them have the bad manners and oversized sphincters to go display in the LGBT or African-American or Asian or Disability or Disability forums. Or, if they did, they'd be tossed out of here on their asses.
But woman bashing is entrenched in the culture and the language. Like the water that fish swim in and the air we breathe. Unless you experience the downside of oppression yourself, you have a hard time seeing it.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)The communities that do nothing but worship sports need to be thinking more of the future of their children. I guess my point is that it doesn't matter what is "officially" said at the school, by "adult authorities", etc.... Until it is real and supported the anti-female crap will continue to win and own society. No one is putting their foot down about these attitudes. It's really sick. It demeans young men too, it casts them as animals with no human ability to reason or have self control.
kiva
(4,373 posts)cheering on the boys and calling the girl a whore.
I swear to god I am so grateful I grew up during the 1970s when sisterhood was seen as possible and girls/women generally treated each other as friends and not rivals.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)If there was social media in the 70's the comments would just as mean.
kiva
(4,373 posts)There was, quite simply, a different attitude, probably due to the fact that many young women supported the notion of sisterhood. You can argue that it was in opposition to very obvious and tangible vestiges of male dominance, but this attitude existed. I - and other young women I know at this time - were frankly bewildered by the attitudes in earlier movies or books that women should never trust other women, or that you had to side with men against women in order to succeed. You still hear echoes of this when you talk women who remember this period.
So no, I don't think that social media would have made us turn on each other...I'm not saying we were saints and we likely would have made our own mistake, but not this one.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)You all sat around sang kumbuya? Many DU'ers regardless of age have spoken about bullying they faced growing up. If two popular football players in the 70's were charged with rape, you don't think some girls would talk badly or blame the victim? Granted, I grew in the 90's, but people are people and I have a hard believing the dynamics around schools and sports are that different.
polly7
(20,582 posts)A friend of mine broke up with her boyfriend, he was an abusive *. His sister and her gang caught Lisa alone after gym class and beat the hell out of her. They destroyed her things and tortured her pretty much until graduation.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)we see today, or the mean girl media presents.
and no, i was not bullied.
MattBaggins
(7,905 posts)Looks awesome doesn't it?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)stepping that up to the harms done by seeing feminism as individualism. doesnt work
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)with the oppressors. Or rather, gain the illusion of power.
Most well known example: the capos in the German death camps during the Holocaust.
surrealAmerican
(11,365 posts)... than I did. As a girl in the '70s, most of the other girls I knew treated any girl outside of their clique as a rival.
kiva
(4,373 posts)and honestly this wasn't the case. Were there cliques? Yes. Was everyone nice? No. But there was a certain sense of connection - as a whole our class was still worried about Vietnam (though it was winding down) and the draft, and among most of the girls there was a push for change.
We entered high school with a strict dress code (no pants/Levis), a pretty rigid sense of behavior - be ladies - and most of us left three years later (no freshman class) wearing our Levis and garmish boots and behaving like young women, not ladies. I wasn't part of the cool kids, so there may have been more sense of rivalry there, overall not.
Again, not making it out to be a time of rainbows and butterflies, but there was a different dynamic between girls and young women.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"most of the other girls I knew treated any girl outside of their clique as a rival."
Yet one may wonder if they were as belligerent to rape victims too.
I imagine that anyone who presents anecdotal evidence presents only those anecdotes which validate their own opinions...
OnionPatch
(6,169 posts)A guy once turned me out of his car and left me alone on a country road for "not putting out". It was a twenty mile hike home home and when I didn't return on time, my parents had every law enforcement agency in the area looking for me. My friends knew who I was with and the guy was eventually charged with contributing to a minor. I spent the rest of high school hiding from from his sisters and cousins who tried to beat me up every chance they had. Glad you knew nicer girls.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)Pigs.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,047 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,047 posts)It's the War on Women, tactical edition, trickled down from patriarchy and bible literalists until it is pure poison on the streets.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)at the very least, the women on du that speak out against the rape of the 13 yr old girl would consistently speak out about a rape of a 13 yr old boy. and having boys who were at 13. no, it is not to cheer. it is abuse of authority the same with a girl.
Sargasso Sea
(16 posts)athlete raped a 13 year old boy?
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)and, everybody else involved in this incident - the AD, the Coach, and all the kids that bullied this poor girl.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)kdmorris
(5,649 posts)We have to stop putting athletes on a pedestal and victimizing young girls.
What a bunch of pigs - I agree with that statement made by a previous poster!
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)we are destroying our girls lives awfully early. i agree. a couple months ago there were like three/four suicides together that was all about this. really left an impact on me.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Our culture is an equal opportunity destroyer, it's often toxic for both girls and boys.
I suspect that the reaction to this event may have more to do with the perceived status and athletic ability of the individuals involved than their respective sexes. If a popular cheerleader had been raped by a couple of unpopular geeky guys things would have gone down very differently, IMO.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)grown men participating in a couple. the link i am pointing out is the social media to attack victims, and the results of those attacks made thru social media, specifically the slut shaming.
you want me to be empathetic with the boys that commit suicide? you got it. i am all over it. each and every one i hear.
what that has to do with my post about a very small period, like a week of 3, 4 girls committing suicide because they were slut shamed thru social media leaves me stumped.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I got the impression, rightly or wrongly, from your post that you think it's mostly girls that commit suicide, I was just trying to point out that perception is erroneous.
Boys may have different social pressures but being a boy in today's America is no more a piece of cake than it is being a girl.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)not to mention all the times i have discussed the issues with boys today and how hard society makes it for them, i am well aware of the issues boys face and i am one of their greatest defenders and protectors.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)http://www.mastersofhealthcare.com/blog/2009/10-big-differences-between-mens-and-womens-brains/
Women are more susceptible to depression, which is obviously far greater when large groups of people are verbally abusing them.
alp227
(32,065 posts)Article in OP states the men (yes they're 18 now) are charged w/2nd-degree sexual assault. The relevant state law:
(b) Sexual assault in the second degree is a class C felony or, if the victim of the offense is under sixteen years of age, a class B felony, and any person found guilty under this section shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of which nine months of the sentence imposed may not be suspended or reduced by the court.
Also here's the sentencing guidelines for class B felony: "for a class B felony other than manslaughter...a term not less than one year nor more than twenty years"
These guys sure ain't getting a soft sentence that the Steubenville rapists got.
Thank you for the information.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)Thanks, alp227.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Black, white Latino, Christian, Jew, no matter.
Whenever a high profile rape case is discussed, people focus on what the victim did wrong.
SpartanDem
(4,533 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)on top of the fear that they are "causing trouble".
So, think about the messages you put out if you want them to feel safe telling you what's going on.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Sick and rotten to the core.
Orrex
(63,234 posts)If there's any consolation in this, it's that they won't be tried as juveniles and given months-long sentences if convicted.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)you got that right.
alp227
(32,065 posts)City Lights
(25,171 posts)I'm so sick to death of society hero-worshiping athletes.
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)Castrate them all!
City Lights
(25,171 posts)Did you forget the ?
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)alp227
(32,065 posts)Combine that with the fact they'll be tried in the ADULT justice system not juvie as the Steubenville rapists got.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)IMHO the Jock Culture is one of the primary underpinnings for misogynistic sexism to
be perpetuated and even celebrated.
One of the reasons I've never been much of a "sports fan".
ellie
(6,929 posts)was charged with felony robbery and assault for another incident. I guess those victims asked to be jumped and robbed? Disgusting.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Why were they wearing those expensive watches and carrying those fat wallets (or whatever was taken from them)?
nonoyes
(261 posts)This is unconscionable. The school administration and coach(es) that allowed this.... get them out of public educaiton.
They are not qualified to be educators if they make decisions like this. Education is not about a football game.
radicalliberal
(907 posts). . . yet in the world of football, women's rights have been taking a beating for generations.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)nt
radicalliberal
(907 posts)It's very sad, and it really doesn't have to be this way.
There are decent men in the world of sports (although I seriously doubt they're in the majority) who are trying to change the culture. Perhaps they will succeed in the long run (although I'm not all that optimistic about it); but the change, if it does occur, will take place over a very long period of time.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But there are many others who arguably enable their teammates' misdeeds. I don't know of any easy answers to these issues, but there certainly does need to be a lot more positive peer pressure, at all levels of football (and other sports). And, obviously, greater accountability (legally and otherwise) for those who don't respect boundaries.
radicalliberal
(907 posts). . . another topic by another member): I certainly don't believe the majority of football players at any level commit rape and other serious crimes. But I am convinced that the relative few who do commit such crimes do get away with it far more often than not. Many such instances are covered up; so, we never hear about them. (For a notorious example of odious conduct in this regard, read Our Guys by Bernard Lefkowitz, which is about the Glen Ridge scandal.) Frankly, I was surprised there were any convictions in the Steubenville rape trial. I'm afraid if the trial had been by jury that there would have been no convictions.
One of the solutions to the problem of the negative aspects of the culture of school sports is values-based coaching, a leading proponent of which is the former NFL player Joe Ehrmann. He's co-authored an excellent book describing his coaching philosophy, which is entitled InSideOut Coaching. If moral leadership of the kind that Ehrmann advocates had been present in Steubenville, perhaps this scandal would not have happened. I believe our society has forgotten about what I would call the noble "knight" sort of masculinity. Machismo is self-centered and selfish. Just my opinion.
Thanks, again, for being civil.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)While I may see even "noble masculinity" as outdated and unnecessary, it's certainly the lesser of two evils at worst.
radicalliberal
(907 posts)There are different masculinities because there's so much variety among men.
I guess you could say each guy has to find his own way. (Sounds dopy, doesn't it?)
We have no argument. So, I say "best regards." Even if we disagreed, I'd still want to say "best regards."
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)First the victim has to fight the boys. Then afterwords she'll be attacked and bullied by the mean girls for taking boys off the chess board.
Same thing happening in Steubenville right now. Two girls already arrested for making death threats to the victim.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)claiming there is something called "real rape" and something else that's not real rape, is it any wonder that some of the children listen to them? i am sure these rapists don't think they are "real" rapists either, just like the Stubenville rapists don't believe what they did was "real" rape. girls defending rapists i think it is a way they feel less vulnerable to attack themselves.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)If you want to be popular, and the girl who was raped is being ostracized, how do you maintain your popularity? If the rape victim is losing friends, how do you keep friends? If the boy you like is trash talking and blaming the rape victim, do you stand up to him, or go along in the hope it will make you more attractive?
I am trying to raise my kids to fight against that kind of peer pressure. It's a rough world though.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and i am sure a lot of it has to do with peer pressure, but i suspect there is more going on with the girls. i know it is a rough world, but kids need to understand how to act right, in addition to knowing what is right. i know that's a difficult thing to do, especially if your friends, etc., are doing the opposite. good luck and best wishes
bighart
(1,565 posts)I don't think politicians have much to do with teenage sexual behavior. I didn't buy it when they tried to say oral sex among teens was going increase because of Bill Clinton, and I don't now.
This kind of stuff happens in part because celebrities, whether they are international, national, regional or local celebrities, are made to feel "special" and like they can do no wrong. They are bailed out, excused, covered up for all of the time and they come to believe they can get away with almost anything.
Look at the celebs mentioned in this thread alone, Kobe Bryant, Ben Roethlisberger, Roman Polanski all had defenders and those who made an argument that they should be treated differently because of their "talent". Hell two of them were never convicted of criminal wrong doing.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)the exact same thing happens with all people who are prominent in the MSM. celebrities get slaps on the wrist, and so do politicians. hell...does any wealthy person EVER have to accept responsibility for their actions in this country?
bighart
(1,565 posts)A celebrity can be in any occupation.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)thanks for clarifying.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)Torrington is off Route 8 in the northwestern part of the state. It's like a small, post industrial city with lots of diversity. I have worked in all the elementary schools and the middle school. Middle school kids were tough sometimes. But poor girl. Why does everything bad in the world seem to happen close by lately (not far from Newtown either)?
bighart
(1,565 posts)(Use the address 56 Alice Street.)
Its US Rep. is Elizabeth Esty (5th district). Its state house representative is a Democrat but state senator a Republican.
Its mayor, Ryan J. Bingham, is a Republican.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)It's Connecticut, which is socially liberal/moderate and fiscally liberal/moderate. I mean, gay marriage is legal here and no one really cared when it happened. Litchfield County is more rural then central CT and then the area near New York City but rural simply means less populated. Torrington is one of the more populated areas in this county.
NewJeffCT
(56,829 posts)That whole area with Target, Home Depot, Stop & Shop, etc was a pretty convenient shopping area.
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)There is nothing in Tville. We have an IGA and a Dunkin Donuts. That is about it. I usually head to Bristol for anything.
markpkessinger
(8,409 posts)If you look at crime statistics these things happen everywhere and were not any different than any other community, said McKenna.
He's right about that much -- and that is the problem.