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Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:27 PM

Ae you ashamed that your taxes go to war?

To support a new Gitmo wing an dcontiued wars, of hate, SURVEILLANCE secrity and not infrastructure, education health and science?

You already know

too big to fail, too big to jailil

Nazi war crimals. got away ithe it

The appeasement here disgusts me.

The economic meltdown can only be justified by the powers of their propaganda which is very strong

We had an economic meltdown but they still want to maintain



control

With my experience now
I/ve met Serbians, Bosnian and their personal thoughts and personal expeireces on both sides of war crimes.

They say...... they did
and we did and this goes generational to a lies on the truth.

They have the Hauge to see what they have done......WE DON'T.



The World is watching.

I hope my OP is too big to fail an d too big to jaii.......LOL

38 replies, 3645 views

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Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply Ae you ashamed that your taxes go to war? (Original post)
Ichingcarpenter Mar 2013 OP
markpkessinger Mar 2013 #1
JaneyVee Mar 2013 #2
Kalidurga Mar 2013 #3
olddots Mar 2013 #4
99th_Monkey Mar 2013 #5
rhett o rick Mar 2013 #10
Egalitarian Thug Mar 2013 #6
loudsue Mar 2013 #7
idwiyo Mar 2013 #8
MoclipsHumptulips Mar 2013 #9
woo me with science Mar 2013 #11
GoCubsGo Mar 2013 #12
rhett o rick Mar 2013 #13
LeftInTX Mar 2013 #14
Cleita Mar 2013 #17
LeftInTX Mar 2013 #34
Cleita Mar 2013 #15
Dragonfli Mar 2013 #16
virgogal Mar 2013 #18
Fresh_Start Mar 2013 #19
Warpy Mar 2013 #20
99Forever Mar 2013 #21
Autumn Mar 2013 #22
Curmudgeoness Mar 2013 #23
peace13 Mar 2013 #24
randr Mar 2013 #25
RILib Mar 2013 #26
abelenkpe Mar 2013 #27
politicat Mar 2013 #28
Heather MC Mar 2013 #29
Nite Owl Mar 2013 #30
NRaleighLiberal Mar 2013 #31
Fuddnik Mar 2013 #32
Iggo Mar 2013 #33
JVS Mar 2013 #35
just1voice Mar 2013 #36
Rex Mar 2013 #37
Romulox Mar 2013 #38

Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:29 PM

1. Yes, I am ashamed -- VERY n/t

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:30 PM

2. It's probably the thing I'm MOST ashamed of my country for.

 

ESPECIALLY when they tell us there's no money for food, education, & healthcare while handing a blank check to the Pentagon.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:32 PM

3. What you said...

Except shame isn't what I feel. It's more like outrage. I would be ashamed if I had anything to do with keeping that system in place. But, I didn't build the war machine nor do I benefit from it. Those are the ones that should be ashamed.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:33 PM

4. yes

 

and about the lottery money not going to schools

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:34 PM

5. I'm ONLY ashamed when Republicans do it

 



sorry, I couldn't resist. someone had to say it.

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:36 PM

10. Thanks.

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:34 PM

6. Ashamed, no. Pissed off, hell yes. n/t

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:35 PM

7. I am absolutely HORRIFIED that my taxes are going to pay for wars, drone strikes,

and bombing and rebuilding the infrastructure of foreign countries.

There was a new army/navy ad on teevee last night, and I pointed something out to my husband: The "soldiers" in the ad said "we are making the world safe for democracy". Yep. They're finally admitting that our tax dollars are NOT TO PROTECT THE USA. It is to go anywhere in the world the generals decide they want to spend our money....anytime they feel like it.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:36 PM

8. Yes, I am.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:36 PM

9. Yes.

 

Enough.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:36 PM

11. No, I am angry. nt

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:37 PM

12. No.

I am fucking disgusted and angry.

Why should I be ashamed for what others are doing?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:38 PM

13. So where is the line we draw. What do we say is the last straw before massive

 

civ al dis o bedience? I broke the word up to discourage their spy engines.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:40 PM

14. You know how Republicans prefer private charities to govt charities?

Fund wars as private charities instead of tax dollars.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:44 PM

17. That would work for me.

Another suggestion made today in reference to the Republican insistence that the Post Office is supposed to make a profit, why isn't the military forced to make a profit? Not only should they solicit donations to run the military, but they should also have to make a profit in the long run just like the Post Office has to.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #17)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:23 PM

34. Yes, how much money did we lose in that Iraq venture?

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:41 PM

15. Of course.

I wish we had categories on our tax returns to check off on how we want our money spent. Military spending would not get a check from me if we are in a war of occupation like we are now.

A Freeper said to me that she wanted a choice in how to contribute her money instead of paying taxes. Maybe these small government, low taxation people would be in favor of having a check list of what they want their money spent on. I mean the categories could be divided up like the budget is now with military, education, health care, etc. etc., and they too could check off what they think is important.

Maybe it would give our legislators an epiphany when they actually have to put tax money in those categories as designated by the tax payers instead of having to cave into lobbyists when they make up budgets. I'll bet military spending would be reduced dramatically and they would be forced to make hard decisions like closing Gitmo and bringing troops home.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:42 PM

16. I feel, whatever feeling this is:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2566239
I suppose there are a few feelings involved and described, we are a complicated species...

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:50 PM

18. Nope.

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:50 PM

19. I feel guilty and ashamed nt

nt

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 07:59 PM

20. Try FURIOUS

More than half our taxes go to support the bloated military, including military pensions. If you exclude pensions, it's still in excess of 34 cents of every tax dollar being sucked into that five sided black hole in Arlington.

The Pentagon needs to go on a strict diet with guidelines about what those old boys can cut and what they can't cut. On the table: over engineered war toys. Off the table, their personnel. On the table: their intelligence department, a hotbed of neoconservative plotting. Off the table: combat readiness should we be invaded. On the table: protecting corporations and their trade routes globally. Off the table: protecting our own shores. You get the drift.

We can't afford an imperial military, especially since the wealthy have declared their intention to shove the whole burden onto labor's shoulders. Something's got to give and IMO it's time for those generals to start making some tough choices instead of just putting employees on unpaid furlough.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:02 PM

21. Yes, I am ashamed that my nation has no conscience.

The war killing is just one way we are monsters.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:04 PM

22. Yes, I'm also ashamed that my tax dollars go to large corporation

that screw over people and banks that screw over people.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:04 PM

23. I hate the system, I am disgusted to be helping pay for it,

but I have actually put letters with tax returns saying that the small contribution that I am making is to be used for education, infrastructure, and help for the needy...but that not a penny of MY tax payment applies to the war machine.

I know, they didn't give a shit, but that is how I have to live with it. I figure that they give way more than I am paying to many of the things that I agree with, so all of my taxes applied there.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:26 PM

24. Disgusted, irate, furious .......

 

These come to mind!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 08:57 PM

25. Yes and more so because the far right forced legislation

that stops any tax dollars going for abortion. If they can have such a right I want the same one for my moral issue.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:17 PM

26. no, I'm angry.

 

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:21 PM

27. Hate that my tax dollars go to war nt



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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:24 PM

28. It's More Complicated Than That...

I am a tenth-generation Quaker (though I'm non-theist). I am pacifist by heritage, mature consideration and inclination. I also believe there are battles worth fighting. Were I born in 1920 instead of 1976, I would have joined the WAC or the WAVES and allowed myself to be put to use as a computer or analyst. (My Quaker/Red Diaper Baby grandmother, who was born in 1920, did so, with a clear conscience -- Fascists were that big of a threat. So did my grandfather, who served as a medic, and two great-uncles, who were also CO.) I wanted a peacekeeping force into Bosnia (was too young to go). I wanted a serious peacekeeping force into Somalia and Sudan and Darfur. I wanted another peacekeeping force into Afghanistan well before 2001. I initially supported the invasion, on the hopes that we'd do it right and restore Afghanistan to the cosmopolitan, progressive nation it was before the Soviet invasion. I am disappointed that we failed, and I am terrified for the fates of the women who have been educated and will be returned to Taliban rule. I believe in the power of peacekeeping to prevent atrocity, or at least mitigate it.

I am a Social Democrat with civil libertarian leanings. I believe in a living wage, a minimum income, a maximum wage tied to the minimum, in progressive taxation, in meaningful work for all according to their abilities and inclinations and supporting everyone who cannot. I believe in education for all, health care for all, and equal opportunity for all. I believe that corporations are the greatest danger to this republic and the concentration of wealth is what is responsible for our current wars. I hate admitting it, but the military is an impressive model of how to implement a living wage, a minimum income, education, health care and equal opportunity. I think the current forces have been woefully mismanaged and horribly abused by the entrenched political and economic powers.

I am an historian of demographics of the Industrial Revolution. My studies have taught me that whenever a nation has concurrently an 1) entrenched political class who is a generation older than a 2) disenfranchised, large younger generation and 3) a concentration of wealth in the hands of a small elite, then war is not only possible, but inevitable. The entrenched older generation fears losing their power to the younger generation and the younger generation has limited access to power because the elders refuse to give up theirs, so the younger will seek alternative routes. The elder generation will seek to limit these alternatives by diverting a portion of the younger into war. Build me a better human, and we'll talk about generations gracefully relinquishing power. I am disgusted by the political power grab that a demographic bulge always creates. I am massively disappointed that a generation who demanded equal rights, an end to impressment (the draft) and peace for themselves can now casually throw my generation and the next into war and economic impressment.

I am a military brat, a Naval officer's kid. I grew up on base. I've directly benefited from the vast wealth transfer scheme that is the Department of Defense. I've seen communities be born, thrive and die on the adjacent base (or due to its closure.) Both of my siblings and their spouses are direct beneficiaries of the educational opportunities afforded to servicemembers and veterans. All of my nieblings have or had access to the best socialized medicine system in the world and benefited from it. They, and we, also grew up in the most integrated society in history, and I believe that is an ultimate good. I've also seen the harm done both in times of war and in peace -- the destroyed lives, the shattered dreams, the suppression of individuality and free will. I've also seen how choosing a military career can lift an individual from grinding poverty, poor education and woefully inadequate health care. I want that to remain an option because sometimes, the only way a kid from Appalachia or BFE Missouri or South Central can get to college and get dental care is to take the Federal Shilling. But I want an equal option for people who are engaged in peace. I'm disappointed that we've never figured out how to try it.

I would much rather that the annual wealth transfer from the taxpayers to manufacturers of military hardware happen for some other purpose, but I cannot deny that DARPA is responsible for the basic research that makes so much possible. I want more money for research, and less for the ultimate consumer product (bombs -- after all, they're very expensive, a new model is always needed, and they're disposable.) I do not want to see DoD supported factory towns dry up and blow away -- I want to see them retooled for solar power production and wind turbines and fuel cells and structural steel and truly modular housing. We did it in 1941, we can do it again. I do not want to see thousands of highly skilled, well paid technicians and analysts and professionals suddenly become unemployable. It disappoints me that so much of the American middle class is dependent upon our ability to wage war.

I am proud of the potential of the system we built and what it showed to be possible if turned towards the promotion of peace. I am disgusted by the way it has been abused. We -- both civilians and servicemembers -- should have protested louder at the beginning of the abuse of this system. For that last, I am ashamed.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:59 PM

29. I am ashamed, that for a civilized country, we seem be ok with perpetual war, but have no use for

peace.

I am ashamed, that with all of our collective intelligence, the best thing we can produce is new ways to keep killing one another.

I am ashamed that in a society with the most amazing communications abilities of any generation in the history of mankind, we still have not mastered the fine art of talking out our differences.

I am ashamed that whenever I say even on this board "Give Peace a Chance" someone inevitably will say, "Unfortunately that's not possible, now"

War is a Choice, Peace is a better one, instead of planning for more wars, planning to put women on the front lines of combat, building more weapons.

Lets Plan for Peace, and live a less shameful existence.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 09:59 PM

30. I'm ashamed

of America.
The wars, the bank bailouts, taking away of rights,
The poor and middle class are the only ones to to pay up for their mistakes no matter what the consequences may be to us.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:02 PM

31. I've been at outrage level for so long now it is hard to remember when I've not been. n/t

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:11 PM

32. Inverted Totalitarianism and Managed Democracy.

We have the illusion of Democracy.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:19 PM

33. Absolutely.

And not just ashamed, but angry.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 10:28 PM

35. Don't blame me, I'm a 47%er!

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:30 PM

36. Your point is well made, the world doesn't care whether we support it or not

 

We are American torturers in their minds, war criminals all. The war crimes will never go away, we can't just "look forward". I tell people that the world doesn't care about whether we individually support or don't support something, all the world sees is corrupt Americans.

Still, a lot of people just don't want to understand that, they are brainwashed, propagandized and insulated from reality, usually stuck in some political propaganda dichotomy that prevents them from thinking rationally.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:31 PM

37. I am ashamed that my taxpayer money goes

 

to the countless banksters that robbed the populace. I cannot get mad at it going toward the military as it is part of the infrastructure of our society. Banksters...not so much.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Tue Mar 26, 2013, 05:43 PM

38. No. Listen to my radio show, for my views on why you should be *glad* drones are surveiling you!

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