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Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:46 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

One slight issue regarding the Clint Ad and Chrysler

Just to make this clear. I'm glad Clint Eastwood had the committment to do that ad for free. I hope he is correct that America is poised for a second-half recovery. It was an inspiring ad.

I'm glad the US government stepped in and saved the company and all of those jobs.

Rove and the other GOP CONservatives are morons for being crybabies about the ad.

But....One little inconvenient fact that we need to remember.

Chrysler is no longer an American car company. It is an Italian car company now, with Fiat as its majority owner.

Maybe that's not a bad thing. But it is not an example of America coming back to the top of the global economic pyramid. The people who work for Chrysler are, in a sense, no different than the ones who build Hondas or other foreign brands ion US plants.

So it is not, strictly speaking, something to crow about as American Triumphalism. At best it is a pragmatic global solution. Maybe better than the alternative -- but in another sense it's another case of the domestic economy being swallowed up by globalization.

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24 replies	Author	Time	Post
One slight issue regarding the Clint Ad and Chrysler (Original post)	Armstead	Feb 2012	OP
The ad	ProSense	Feb 2012	#1
Also about Italy	Armstead	Feb 2012	#2
No	ProSense	Feb 2012	#3
I've seen it a couple of times -- It's a great ad, but slightly misleading.	Armstead	Feb 2012	#5
Actually,	ProSense	Feb 2012	#7
As usual you knitpick for the sake of knitpicking	Armstead	Feb 2012	#9
Well,	ProSense	Feb 2012	#11
Knit.knit,knit......	Armstead	Feb 2012	#12
It's spelled "nitpick," no "k"	Boombaby	Feb 2012	#13
And many of those suppliers are American companies and workers	LiberalFighter	Feb 2012	#14
Excuse me, I don't mean to interupt - you two are having such a good time and all -	ashling	Feb 2012	#18
Huh?	trumad	Feb 2012	#4
The ad implied that Chrysler's reboundf was strictly a victory of Americans	Armstead	Feb 2012	#6
Yes--- Fiat owns 58.5 percent...	trumad	Feb 2012	#8
Yes it's pretty good	Armstead	Feb 2012	#10
So your not saying it's not a victory for Americans.	Life Long Dem	Feb 2012	#20
Basically, yeah	Armstead	Feb 2012	#22
why do we say the same damn thing over and over and over and	Whisp	Feb 2012	#24
Are we confusing "implication" and "inference"?	LanternWaste	Feb 2012	#21
Well I'm a little confused by your definitions but...	Armstead	Feb 2012	#23
hilarious	bottom line	Feb 2012	#15
Dude---is your keyboard in need of new batteries?	trumad	Feb 2012	#16
scam	bottom line	Feb 2012	#19
Clint's "winning" in this ad was much broader than the concept of dominating the top of a pyramid,	Uncle Joe	Feb 2012	#17

Response to Armstead (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:49 PM

ProSense (116,464 posts)

1. The ad

wasn't about Chrysler, it was about Detroit.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:50 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

2. Also about Italy

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Response to Armstead (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:53 PM

ProSense (116,464 posts)

3. No

Maybe you should watch it again:

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Response to ProSense (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:02 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

5. I've seen it a couple of times -- It's a great ad, but slightly misleading.

This is not strictly American Triumphalism.

An Italian auto company is in the drivers seat at what once was an American car company.

Spin it however you want, but facts are facts.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:08 PM

ProSense (116,464 posts)

7. Actually,

"Spin it however you want, but facts are facts. "

...you can spin it however you want to, but the ad is specifically about Detroit, and the facts are...

Fortunately, the Obama administration didn’t let that happen, and the unemployment rate in Michigan, which hit 14.1 percent as the bailout was going into effect, is now down to a still-terrible-but-much-better 9.3 percent. And the details aside, much of Mr. Obama’s State of the Union address can be read as an attempt to apply the lessons of that success more broadly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002228941

And that rate is "the lowest level in more than three years."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002278601

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Response to ProSense (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:17 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

9. As usual you knitpick for the sake of knitpicking

If you bother to read my OP, you will note that I said it was a good thing that the bailout saved US manufacturing operations and all those jobs.

But the fact is that -- however beneficial it may have been for employment -- it was not as the ad implied, that America is coming back as an economic power.

The control of the situation is in the hands of owners of the company in Italy. That's the fact.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:25 PM

ProSense (116,464 posts)

11. Well,

As usual you knitpick for the sake of knitpicking

If you bother to read my OP, you will note that I said it was a good thing that the bailout saved US manufacturing operations and all those jobs.

But the fact is that -- however beneficial it may have been for employment -- it was not as the ad implied, that America is coming back as an economic power.

The control of the situation is in the hands of owners of the company in Italy. That's the fact.

...since you insist, it's "nitpick."

Detroit coming back is about the entire auto industry, including suppliers, not just Chrysler.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:28 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

12. Knit.knit,knit......

Thanks, in part, to a company from Italy.

I suggest YOU watch the ad again and look at the implied message of American exceptionalism.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:33 PM

Boombaby (139 posts)

13. It's spelled "nitpick," no "k"

And if Americans have jobs, I don't care if the parent company is Alpha Centauri Industries.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #11)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:36 PM

LiberalFighter (46,131 posts)

14. And many of those suppliers are American companies and workers

Earning wages paying American government taxes to support their local economy.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:40 PM

ashling (25,771 posts)

18. Excuse me, I don't mean to interupt - you two are having such a good time and all -

but your original post is all about nitpicking .... just wanted to point that out

... now carry on with your originally scheduled nitpicking

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Response to Armstead (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 01:55 PM

trumad (41,692 posts)

4. Huh?

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Response to trumad (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:05 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

6. The ad implied that Chrysler's reboundf was strictly a victory of Americans

But the fact is that Chrysler is no longer an American owned car company. It is owned and managed by a foreign car company.

Whether that's good, bad, or a mixed bag, it is not strictly an example of American Industry coming back.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:16 PM

trumad (41,692 posts)

8. Yes--- Fiat owns 58.5 percent...

and the United Auto Workers owns 41.5 percent.

Looks pretty good for Detroit to me---which is what this commercial was all about.

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Response to trumad (Reply #8)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:20 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

10. Yes it's pretty good

I'm just saying we should not delude ourselves. The majority ownership -- and therefore the real control and majority of profits -- are in the hands of a non-American company.

Whatever benefits, it is not what the ad implied, that this is solely a victory for American grit and determination to take back control of our collective economic fate.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 04:28 PM

Life Long Dem (8,582 posts)

20. So your not saying it's not a victory for Americans.

Only that it's "not" solely a victory for Americans. I can go with that.

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Response to Life Long Dem (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:35 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

22. Basically, yeah

I just don't like to see the facts buried under jingoism or false assumptions about the situation.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:14 PM

Whisp (24,096 posts)

24. why do we say the same damn thing over and over and over and

over again?

I know I do that here too, I wonder what that's about.

I think your point was understood after the fifth recital. and I think it is You that are Mr. Nitpick, right there in your OP, smack dab in your face.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #6)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 05:18 PM

LanternWaste (37,748 posts)

21. Are we confusing "implication" and "inference"?

Are we confusing "implication" and "inference"? Are we confusing means with result?

Certainly appears so...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #21)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 06:39 PM

Armstead (47,803 posts)

23. Well I'm a little confused by your definitions but...

There are implications. We are still selling out America's productive capacities, which does have potential implications for the long run. When hard decisions need to be made in the future, will they be based on what is best for America and its workers..or the bottom line of a foreign multinational corporation?

The fact that we have overlooked such troubling questions and implications in the past situations -- and ingnored Emperor's New Clothes -- is one reason we allowed ourselves to get into this mess in the first place.

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 02:47 PM

bottom line (94 posts)

15. hilarious

I had just posted the following as "WE do not forget" on another CLINT post when this post appeared...
Being from Hlywd, old enough to remember the first 10 years of runs ronnies, not A mention of the word AIDS, or help and where Miss Eastwood's nose was in his grand scheme to become "B" actor 2nd president, I would bet $ he's never said, President & Obama together. He's quite a schemer & thinks because he was used to draw the younger gen with his very relevant movies as Alist director that he's still on. sorry he's a bit smarter than charlton heston, by seelearning from, to not talk, i.e. ACT. Always jealous he couldn't hold a candle to great actors.
WE DO NOT FOR GET
New reply;
Gee, mr billionaire ex media king of Italy, mr bercolusi or whatever in the fuck his name is, got any work for me? Not that I who is replying, think a world economy is bad or Fiat for that matter.
Truly his scheming is HILARIOUS. We all get old DEAR.

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Response to bottom line (Reply #15)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:15 PM

trumad (41,692 posts)

16. Dude---is your keyboard in need of new batteries?

WTF?

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Response to trumad (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 04:04 PM

bottom line (94 posts)

19. scam

When a repuke "gives away" donates MONEY, IT is a media mumstream 1% SCAM
Gives away $, that's hilarious. The repukes are SOOOO desperate!

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Response to Armstead (Original post)

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 03:24 PM

Uncle Joe (55,629 posts)

17. Clint's "winning" in this ad was much broader than the concept of dominating the top of a pyramid,

it was about competing, fighting, doing the right thing, overcoming fear, unity and teamwork.

The ad wasn't about American exceptionlism so much as strength of national character and a call to action.

It's true the Italian company Fiat owns a majority of Chrysler but nothing is engraved in stone as being forever.

Thanks for the thread, Armstead.

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