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graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
Sun May 26, 2013, 04:55 AM May 2013

Who did you support and VOTE for President in 1992? Primary/General

Last edited Sun May 26, 2013, 06:43 AM - Edit history (1)

the major choices in 1992 were

Bill Clinton
Jerry Brown
Paul Tsongas
Bob Kerrey
Tom Harkin

(four who didn't ever enter the race but were talked about prior)
Mario Cuomo
Bill Bradley
Ted Kennedy
Jesse Jackson

vs.
George Herbert Walker Bush (41) running for reelection

vs.
Ross Perot

142 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Who did you support and VOTE for President in 1992? Primary/General (Original Post) graham4anything May 2013 OP
I voted for Clinton BainsBane May 2013 #1
I'm think that I voted for Tsongas, TexasTowelie May 2013 #2
One of his central themes was reinvesting and resparking our manufacturing/industrial salin May 2013 #85
By the time it got to Alabama, it was already decided. House of Roberts May 2013 #3
Clinton/Clinton. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #4
I was too young to vote Spider Jerusalem May 2013 #5
I second that. krispos42 May 2013 #134
didn't Ross Perot run in 92? nt boilerbabe May 2013 #6
Yes. He did. n/t Laelth May 2013 #25
so did lots of other people hfojvt May 2013 #73
I couldn't vote, being only 5 years old. sakabatou May 2013 #7
Tsongas/Clinton n/t dorkzilla May 2013 #8
Don't recall if I voted in the primary union_maid May 2013 #9
Initially Supported Perot JustAnotherGen May 2013 #10
Initially supported Harkin deutsey May 2013 #11
I canvassed for Jerry Brown rucky May 2013 #12
Jerry Brown and here's his speech Ichingcarpenter May 2013 #13
I held a sign for Jerry Brown when Hillary came to our campus to campaign. tridim May 2013 #29
Perot. tsuki May 2013 #14
Brown in the primary. Clinton in the general. George Gently May 2013 #15
Too young LostOne4Ever May 2013 #16
The MSM did NOT kill Dean's campaign karynnj May 2013 #21
They assassinated him by running that one screamin maniac scene, over & over again. Like 444 Days, leveymg May 2013 #26
Explain what the story that night would have been without the scream karynnj May 2013 #98
Remember that Dean had talked about how he would break up media monopolies. MSM fought back! SharonAnn May 2013 #103
True, but Kerry wrote legislation that would decrease media consolidation karynnj May 2013 #115
Yes. When he screamed he had already lost big (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #28
The scream was nothing in itself. But repeated for 444 days . . . just ask Jimmy Carter about the leveymg May 2013 #40
My interpretation of "the scream"... MarianJack May 2013 #70
So the first Poll decides them all? LostOne4Ever May 2013 #35
No one in the media thought Kerry had a chance before Iowa karynnj May 2013 #96
What are you talking about LostOne4Ever May 2013 #119
There are so many errors here - I will list just some of them karynnj May 2013 #132
Kerry's vote for the war is what did him in dsc May 2013 #51
That might have been why he could not have won in 2008, but it was not true in 2004 karynnj May 2013 #93
my point is he couldn't go around trashing a war he voted for dsc May 2013 #99
That would have led to a HUGE Bush landslide karynnj May 2013 #118
Don't recall voting in the primary/Clinton General Election MNBrewer May 2013 #17
as I remember it, the primary was over hfojvt May 2013 #69
Harkin Skidmore May 2013 #18
That was one of the years I didn't vote in the primary but voted for Clinton in the general. hobbit709 May 2013 #19
Clinton/Clinton RB TexLa May 2013 #20
The big dog of course madokie May 2013 #22
Sad to admit but I voted for Bush. MrSlayer May 2013 #23
Voted for Tom Harkin in the primary. Laelth May 2013 #24
Harkin/Clinton handmade34 May 2013 #27
Clinton, don't think I voted in the primary...as I can't remember. n/t Sekhmets Daughter May 2013 #30
Supported Jerry Brown initially Kath1 May 2013 #31
This was the first one I was old enough to vote in... onpatrol98 May 2013 #32
Jesse Jackson/Clinton emulatorloo May 2013 #33
Clinton in both primary and general. MineralMan May 2013 #34
Bill Clinton Freddie May 2013 #36
I voted for Paul Tsongas in the primary and for President Clinton in the general Glorfindel May 2013 #37
Same here! n/t etherealtruth May 2013 #126
Bill Clinton Flashmann May 2013 #38
I actually held a position in Tsongas' campaign HQ MannyGoldstein May 2013 #39
what an idea: reinvest in our industrial infrastructure... salin May 2013 #86
Voted for Clinton, should have voted for Perot.. pipoman May 2013 #41
I was too young to vote but I remember my mother supporting Clinton. hrmjustin May 2013 #42
Supported Harkin early on, but by the time I voted Clinton had nearly sealed it JHB May 2013 #43
Clinton/Clinton life long demo May 2013 #44
I supported nobody and I voted for Clinton. Iggo May 2013 #45
Harkin. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #46
I didn't vote in the primary that year. Voted for Clinton in the general election. Marr May 2013 #47
Clinton ananda May 2013 #48
Jerry Brown - Hell Hath No Fury May 2013 #49
Tsongas then Clinton with considerable damage to my nose. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2013 #50
Supported Harkin in the primary. Pab Sungenis May 2013 #52
couldn't vote yet (nt) bigwillq May 2013 #53
Harkin/Clinton Bluzmann57 May 2013 #54
Ross Perot - I think he had it right on jobs being sucked out of RKP5637 May 2013 #55
Ross Perot. For the same reason you did. And he was right, wasn't he? nt Honeycombe8 May 2013 #58
Ross Perot. And he was right about more than just that "giant sucking sound". n/t cherokeeprogressive May 2013 #62
As a recent I.T. grad at the time, Ross Perot was the man. -nt Bonx May 2013 #97
Clinton - my first time voting. liberalmuse May 2013 #56
Cinton...when the others flamed out in the primaries....... Historic NY May 2013 #57
No primary here, but I caucused for Tsongas. lastlib May 2013 #59
I didn't participate in the primaries Spirochete May 2013 #60
clinton Liberal_in_LA May 2013 #61
That was the first election I was 18+ for. ZombieHorde May 2013 #63
Voted for Tom Harkin in the primary Life Long Dem May 2013 #64
Jackson then Clinton olddots May 2013 #65
Nobody!! Chan790 May 2013 #66
Bill Clinton all the way,... MarianJack May 2013 #67
Jerry Brown in the primary/Clinton in the general LuvNewcastle May 2013 #68
I was at University and had a religious studies class. The TA kept going on how the repugs owned.. Tikki May 2013 #71
Clinton. calimary May 2013 #72
If I could have voted... Agschmid May 2013 #74
i was 11 fizzgig May 2013 #75
I didn't vote in primary. In election of course I voted for Clinton. MotherPetrie May 2013 #76
Ron Daniels Doc_Technical May 2013 #77
Tsongas in the Kansas caucus; Clinton in the general... KansDem May 2013 #78
Missouri was still the largest state without a primary........... TheDebbieDee May 2013 #79
I was five. I supported Clinton because even then I knew republicans hate the environment. RedCappedBandit May 2013 #80
Clinton for both sarisataka May 2013 #81
Clinton/Clinton Auntie Bush May 2013 #82
Tsongas/Clinton salin May 2013 #83
Bill Clinton Greybnk48 May 2013 #84
Tsongas/Clinton n/t gollygee May 2013 #87
Bill Clinton rrneck May 2013 #88
I have to admit Politicalboi May 2013 #89
Clinton and Clinton LadyHawkAZ May 2013 #90
nobody/Clinton LWolf May 2013 #91
I decided early that I was going to support the guy that hired the The Second Stone May 2013 #92
I'm pretty sure Senator Paul Simon from ILL was who I supported. In the GE Clinton. nt Raine May 2013 #94
I preferred Al Franken portraying Simon over the real Simon. Buzz Clik May 2013 #110
I voted for Clinton. The NC primary is in May, so we don't play a big role in nominating struggle4progress May 2013 #95
Tsongas/Clinton REP May 2013 #100
Paul Tsongas elleng May 2013 #101
I was 10 at the time so none. Apophis May 2013 #102
Voted for Bill Clinton, I became a fan when he ran for Governor of Arkansas in 1980. Thinkingabout May 2013 #104
Bill Clinton. Because we had no... madinmaryland May 2013 #105
I was only 16 in 1992 but I voted for Clinton in 1996 Jennicut May 2013 #106
Clinton Buzz Clik May 2013 #107
jackson, clinton dembotoz May 2013 #108
Clinton mokawanis May 2013 #109
Tsongas in the Colorado primary. kaiden May 2013 #111
Tsongas in primary, Clinton in general northoftheborder May 2013 #112
I was 14 and just started homeschool. Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #113
Bush FreeState May 2013 #114
In '92 I wanted Cuomo and I wasn't thrilled with the final primary candidates. Arugula Latte May 2013 #116
Tsongas/Clinton MiniMe May 2013 #117
Clinton/Clinton. n/t Still Sensible May 2013 #120
I can't remember whether I voted for Tsongas or Clinton LeftInTX May 2013 #121
Ralph Nader! Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #122
None Of The Above, write in. nt Snotcicles May 2013 #138
Brown/Perot former9thward May 2013 #123
Clinton redstatebluegirl May 2013 #124
i REALLY wanted Cuomo after that speech... but I went with Clinton. stlsaxman May 2013 #125
I voted for Bush. I was young and believed in the false promise of supply-side economics. TekGryphon May 2013 #127
I wasn't here Rosa Luxemburg May 2013 #128
Through the fog of 20+ years I recall liking Tsongas, but who my vote in the primary petronius May 2013 #129
Well Robbins May 2013 #130
Jerry Brown then the nominee Bill Clinton Bluenorthwest May 2013 #131
I supported Clinton and was confident enough in his victory that I made a symbolic vote for Perot NBachers May 2013 #133
My First Presidential Election ChoppinBroccoli May 2013 #135
By the time it got to the Commonwealth, all there was to do was to rubber stamp Bubba TheKentuckian May 2013 #136
Jerry Brown in the primary B Calm May 2013 #137
I was 12 then tabbycat31 May 2013 #139
Brown ~ Clinton nt Zorra May 2013 #140
just realized never gave my answer.Voted for Jerry Brown/Jesse Jackson in primary & Bill in general graham4anything May 2013 #141
Bill/Bill FreeJoe May 2013 #142

TexasTowelie

(113,007 posts)
2. I'm think that I voted for Tsongas,
Sun May 26, 2013, 05:35 AM
May 2013

but I'm not certain if he was still in the primary at that point in Texas. I voted for Clinton in the general election.

salin

(48,955 posts)
85. One of his central themes was reinvesting and resparking our manufacturing/industrial
Sun May 26, 2013, 03:55 PM
May 2013

infrastructure. Sounded wise in 1992.

Sadly, he wouldn't have lived through his first term. His cancer reemerged.

House of Roberts

(5,216 posts)
3. By the time it got to Alabama, it was already decided.
Sun May 26, 2013, 05:55 AM
May 2013

I voted for Jerry Brown, because he dated Linda Ronstadt.

I voted Clinton in the general.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
134. I second that.
Sun May 26, 2013, 11:06 PM
May 2013

My first vote was in the 1994 midterms.

Shit, I just realized I voted for Lieberman 3 times!

Twice as senator, once as veep. Ick.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
73. so did lots of other people
Sun May 26, 2013, 01:22 PM
May 2013

final tally

Clinton - (Republican lite) - 44,909,806
Bush - (Republican) - 39,104,550
Perot - (3rd "party" conservative billionaire) - 19,743,821
Andre Marrou - (libertarian) - 290,087
James Bo Gritz - (America First) - 106,152
Lenore Fuliani - (new alliance) - 73,622
Howard Phillips - (US taxpayers) - 43,369
Dr. John Hagelin - (natural law) - 38,595
Ron Daniels - (Peace and Freedom) - 27,949
Lyndon LaRouche (economic recovery) - 26,289
James Warren (socialist workers) - 23,533 * (that's me, one of the few and the proud, throwing away my protest vote)
write ins - 12,399
Drew Bradford - (independent) - 4,749
Jack Herer - (grassroots) - 3,875
J . Quin Brisben - (socialist) 3,058
Helen Halyard - (workers league) 3,050
none of the above - 2,537
John Yiamouyiannis - (take back America (from the immigrants with funny names?)) - 2,199
Ehlers - (independent) - 1,149
Earl Dodge - (prohibition) - 961
Jim Boren - (Apathy) - 956 (why did they bother?)
Hem - (Third Party) (and no, his/her running mate was NOT Haw, much to my regret) - 405
Isabell Masters (Looking Back) - 349
Smith (American) (again, running mate was NOT Wesson) - 292
Gloria LaRiva (workers world) - 181 (it's a small world after all)

total (for non-libertarian) - 363,270

union_maid

(3,502 posts)
9. Don't recall if I voted in the primary
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:08 AM
May 2013

Voted for Clinton in the GE. Early on I liked Bradley very much. During the primaries I favored Harkin.

JustAnotherGen

(32,164 posts)
10. Initially Supported Perot
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:17 AM
May 2013

Then switched to Clinton.

Voted for Clinton too.

And campaigned for him.

That was the first election I could vote in.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
11. Initially supported Harkin
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:24 AM
May 2013

I did not think much of Clinton, honestly, but voted for him anyway in the general election because I vowed to vote for any reasonable Democratic candidate after enduring 12 years of GHWB and Reaganism.

Voted for him in '94 as well but had to hold my nose to do so.

rucky

(35,211 posts)
12. I canvassed for Jerry Brown
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:26 AM
May 2013

in Dallas. Right out of college. I still think he would make a great president and it's great to see him so successful (again) as Governor.

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
13. Jerry Brown and here's his speech
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:37 AM
May 2013

While the net worth of the average American family declined, the Forbes 400 richest families in America saw their collective wealth increase by 300%! Did any other American families see their net worth triple? Even double?

However, the stunning gains by the very rich did not result from the success of hard work or as a reward earned by expanding the nation's prosperity to the benefit of all.

The triumph of the forces of special privilege with its devastating consequences to the entire nation, was engineered with the complicity of Washington's entrenched politicians, Democrat and Republican alike.

Our democratic system has been the object of a hostile takeover engineered by a confederacy of corruption, careerism and campaign consulting.

And money has been the lubricant greasing the deal. Incredible sums--literally hundreds of millions of dollars--from political action committees (PACs), lobbyists, and wealthy patrons have flooded into the campaign war chests of Washington's entrenched political elite--Democrats and Republicans alike.

Seeking to secure careers of unlimited tenure, these politicians use this cash to fuel monstrous campaigns. Captained by political consultants, these campaigns are designed to crush any challenge to their power.

And, of course, the forces of greed are rewarded richly for the campaign contributions. Unjust tax breaks are only one form of acknowledgement. Agreeing to look the other way, these politicians opened the door to the plunder of Savings and Loans and a merger mania which gutted some of our most respected companies.

The insatiable appetite for campaign dollars has turned the government into a stop and shop for every conceivable greedy and narrow interest.

The quid pro quo could not be more straightforward. The legality of the barter cannot mask its inherent corruptness. Nor can any degree of dissembling obscure the truth that this bargain has been executed--almost without exception--to the detriment of the national interest and at the expense of the American people.

The cost of this corruption has been staggering. Can it be a coincidence that our cities became engulfed in a flood of rising crime and rampaging drugs exactly when the poorest among us were experiencing drastic reductions in their standard of living?

Together, private greed and corrupt power have launched a deadly assault on our common values.

To rationalize greed, they championed materialism and self-interest over moral responsibility and community. "What is in it for me?" To protect their power they inject poisons into the body politic; appeals to fear and selfishness replace calls to hope and sacrifice.


More: http://www.4president.org/speeches/jerrybrown1992announcement.htm


He was ahead of his time then and now.

tridim

(45,358 posts)
29. I held a sign for Jerry Brown when Hillary came to our campus to campaign.
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:46 AM
May 2013

She looked directly at it several times during her speech and she didn't look pleased.

I ended up supporting Bill though.

LostOne4Ever

(9,311 posts)
16. Too young
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:01 AM
May 2013

Last edited Sun May 26, 2013, 10:08 AM - Edit history (1)

I was 9 at the time.

I was 15 days too young to vote in 2000. Im honestly glad I missed the vote because I was a right wing libertarian at the time. Though it took only one year of Bush to piss me off at him and got me moving to the left. By 2002 I was voting straight democrat (though I did vote for libertarians when there were no democrats running...which is quite often in Texas.) so I guess I was a right of center democrat at that time.

2004 was my first presidential election. Supported Dean and voted for him in the primary despite his campaign being dead at that time. I still get angry when I think of how the MSM killed his campaign. Voted For Kerry in general...I still think dean would have beaten Double Dumb in the General. Went Green if no dems (this happens a surprising number of times honestly) and libertarain should there be no greens or dems.

2008 I was for Obama in the primary and vote straight democrat. Same in 2012. Went Green if no dems (I swear there are more greens on the ballot in texas than there are dems!) and libertarian should there be no greens or dems.

2016 I will PROBABLY be supporting either Biden or Hillary if they run. I love both of them~!


EDIT: MEANT beat double dumb in the General. Sorry!!!

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
21. The MSM did NOT kill Dean's campaign
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:29 AM
May 2013

The FACT that he was suppose to win Iowa - or come a close second to Gephardt AND he lost with 18% to Kerry's 38% was the real cause. That was in spite of Kerry getting far less media support and having far less money in Iowa. The ONLY media - other than an Atlantic Monthly excerpt of Tour of Duty - that Kerry got in late 2003 was speculation of whether he would drop out before Iowa, after Iowa or after NH. Meanwhile, Dean had a lot of the most supportive and some of the most critical coverage because he was the one acknowledged as the front runner.

Why he lost was more that he and Gephardt engaged in murder/suicide negative ads that hurt BOTH of them - each being hurt more by the fact that people said they were repulsed by the negativity of the ads. Blame Trippi or whomever was involved in the decision to run those ads. He was also hurt according to some from Iowa by not being that impressive speaking one to one (or in small groups) with Iowans.

Kerry won precisely because he was very good winning over small groups of people with whom he would stay to answer any question they had. In addition, the margin of his win was likely helped by the event a few days before the primary where the man he saved in Vietnam came to his event - winning in my mind forever - the campaign event that most likely would have been at home in a 1940s (Kappra like) movie.

Iowa is rarely about the MSM. In fact, by its very nature, it often overturns the MSM narrative. This happened in both 2004 and 2008. In 2008, it changed the story from Hillary is the inevitable nominee (and President) to Obama might just do this!

As to Dean winning the general election (which I assume is what you mean), Kerry was by far the stronger candidate. Kerry because of his debates, especially the first on foreign policy, was able to make it a very close race - that would been a major upset had there been enough voting machines in Ohio in Democratic strongholds. If your point is that Dean could have won more of the left - in fact, the left voted for Kerry. More than 9 million more people voted for Kerry than had voted for Gore. The problem - other than cheating and media bias - was that in 2004 the country was not ready for a Presidential nominee who could already foresee a time when the war on terror would be over. Note that this week, we saw the Republicans still aren't -- and no one in the media has mentioned how Obama's speech actually echoes some of Kerry's 2004 comments in the Matt Bai NYT magazine article that spoke of exactly the situation Obama says we are in now. Then the idea that terrorism would be fought by international law enforcement and intelligence for the most part sounded - which should have been seen as a comforting, optimistic future was not believed by enough people as a future goal. This in spite of how terrible the alternative - a permanent state of fear of terrorism was.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
26. They assassinated him by running that one screamin maniac scene, over & over again. Like 444 Days,
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:37 AM
May 2013

when the corporate media votes against a particular candidate, that person usually loses.

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
98. Explain what the story that night would have been without the scream
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:14 PM
May 2013

The expected winner lost by 20 percentage points to someone who was not suppose to win. The two stories - why the one guy won and what went wrong in the other campaign (s if you add Gephardts.) The latter story - as is usually the case - would have taken the form of concatenating every bad moment of the Dean campaign together to explain the loss. That itself would have hurt. In fact, a case can be made that the media spent at least as much time on the scream non story than the impressive Kerry win. (Compare to 2008 where everything was Obama)

As to the rest of the election, in NH, it is no surprise that Kerry's surprise win gave him momentum in NH. Dean's numbers did not fall - but Kerry got the bulk of the undecideds and most of the already imploding Clark voters - many of whom had been Dean people who went to Clark. That would likely have happened even with out the scream.

Then Dean opted not to compete in the next group of contests - because he was out of money and he thought the states were unfriendly to a New Englander. His plan was to work on the set of states after that. Part of what had happened was that Trippi wasted far too much money on NH and Iowa. The Dean campaign FAR outspent everyone else. The strategy might have worked if Clark and Edwards divided the 7 states mostly South/southwest/rural states - leading to no clear winner. However Kerry won DE, NM,ND, AZ, and MO - and Edwards won SC and Clark won OK, where he and Edwards got 30% each and Kerry 27%. The media called this a victory for Kerry and Edwards - when it actually was the point where it was obvious that Kerry was going to be the nominee. Kerry's win was one of the smoothest I have seen for anyone not a VP for an open seat.

SharonAnn

(13,785 posts)
103. Remember that Dean had talked about how he would break up media monopolies. MSM fought back!
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:25 PM
May 2013

After Dean said in an interview that he would break up the media monopolies, they went after him big time.

Guess their bosses didn't want their media monopolies to be broken up.

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
115. True, but Kerry wrote legislation that would decrease media consolidation
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:14 PM
May 2013

You can go back and look at the main magazines and papers. There were very few articles pushing Kerry prior to Iowa. I looked after the election because I was stunned by people rewriting what happened. I have found just two major pieces on Kerry - both from less mainstream sources. One, Atlantic Monthly had an excerpt from Tour of Duty - which was not really something speaking of Kerry 2003. The other was a small (non cover) article in New York magazine, which was largely positive.

This was NOTHING compared to giving Dean three major covers in late August 2003 - right before labor day. It is true that in addition to positive articles, there were some - especially in very late 2003 that addressed what they called Dean's anger. However, this is typical treatment for the front runner and he was clearly considered the front runner in fall 2003.

However, that treatment was far better than what Kerry got - which was basically ignored and for whom the main MSM question was when he would drop out. The idea that he was a media favorite is laughable - he NEVER was for his entire political career. Consider that even when he announced at a press conference that he was entering the hospital for cancer treatment - and gave the first question to the hometown Boston Globe, Glen Johnson took the time to accuse Kerry of lying to him when he did not tell him a week or so earlier when Johnson asked him why he looked so bad. It is hard to imagine the media treating any politician worse at a time like that - and Kerry had always been honest with the media.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
40. The scream was nothing in itself. But repeated for 444 days . . . just ask Jimmy Carter about the
Sun May 26, 2013, 09:43 AM
May 2013

power of the corporate media to decide elections.

MarianJack

(10,237 posts)
70. My interpretation of "the scream"...
Sun May 26, 2013, 01:02 PM
May 2013

...was tht he was trying to rally and encourage the young college kids that worked for him. The media, however, ran it to death in their race to be the most "faux news"ish in that election. YUCK!

PEACE!

LostOne4Ever

(9,311 posts)
35. So the first Poll decides them all?
Sun May 26, 2013, 09:23 AM
May 2013

The race had barely just started and if you had believed the hype just a few months before Dean should have been in the single digits. The media had pretty much declared Kerry the winner before even a single vote had been cast. Then Dean came in with his fund raising and all of the sudden they changed their tune.

Iowa is only the first contest but after the scream (that was played over 663 times in the four days following the contest) they had convinced America he was a mad man. That video was all over the place with commentators more or less saying he had lost it. His campaign imploded after that.

I believe that had they not used that one video Dean could have made a comeback. I still don't see what was so bad about that video? Someone being passionate about their country?

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]karynnj[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]As to Dean winning the general election (which I assume is what you mean), Kerry was by far the stronger candidate

I disagree. Kerry was boring and uninspiring . He lost the popular vote by over 2 million. No I don't mean that dean would have picked up votes on the "left" I mean he would have picked up votes from the middle from being more Charismatic. Kerry was a good debater, but he couldn't inspire a turnip. If debates and facts could win this country over the 2000 election would have went for Gore overwhelmingly. The left wanted bush GONE. They would have gone for any of that years nominees. The middle, the undecideds? They were more interested in who would be more fun to have a beer with than with who was best to run the country.

That is what i meant and what I believe. Feel free to disagree but I don't see the point in debating politics that are 9years old and to which we can change nothing.

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
96. No one in the media thought Kerry had a chance before Iowa
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:01 PM
May 2013

His media was all speculation on when he would drop out - before Iowa, after Iowa, or after NH. Dean and Gephardt were supposed to win according to the media. Go look up period magazines.

If Dean were so much more charismatic, why did he get just 18% in Iowa BEFORE the scream. Not to mention, NH already knew him and Kerry well. Kerry is very inspiring and he would never have had a political career if he weren't. The fact is that using just his words, he actually shifted the perception of Vietnam in 1971 - and Nixon was right when he spoke of Kerry as the only protester he feared. He also won both the LT Governor and Senate slots against the media and party favorites. In both cases, by retail politics.

There were polls that looked at how the candidates would do in the general election. For Dean, the polls are mainly from the end of 2003 when he was the front runner. He did significantly WORSE than "generic Democrat". Kerry, was polled after he won Iowa - and he did far better than "generic Democrat". This is the fairest way that I could compare them.

I do think the debates mattered, because the only time Kerry was seen without a media filter that hid or distorted him was the debates and his convention. There is NO doubt in my mind that the media would have been just as tough on any Democrat. Dean was ok in the debates, but the main issue was national security and foreign policy and those are and were Kerry strengths.

As to not arguing 9 year old things - maybe you should not make outrageous comments about things that happened 9 years ago - as they may be countered by others who disagree.

LostOne4Ever

(9,311 posts)
119. What are you talking about
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:31 PM
May 2013

The Media had declared Kerry the heir apparent before anyone had even heard of Dean.

Why did Kerry win that one election? Well for one it was only the first election of a tiny part of the country. Two, better campaigning by Kerry in Iowa of convincing Liberals (who were desperate to get rid of bush) that Kerry had a better chance of beating bush due to him being a war hero and having more foreign policy experience.

If Kerry was so scary to Nixon (...in 1971), so inspiring, and had so much political skill and experience why did he lose the popular vote to double dumb by ~2million votes? Why did Dean out raise him? Oh some polls said so? Polls by the same people who said Dean would trounce him in Iowa? Yeah right

Kerry trounced bush in the debates and he still lost. The party was too focused on looking good on foreign policy and not enough about relating to the common voter. We did not need to focus that much on Foreign policy because by then the war was already unpopular. So he trounced Bush on the debates, was a war hero vs a deserter, had tons of foreign experience, the war had turned against bush, democrats took back congress, and yet he still lost the popular vote. Not only that, but Bush won by a plurality of the vote?

Why? He had everything going for him, why? He was boring. His speeches were boring, the debates were boring. He was boring.

The media did their best to make Dean (Mr Gun Rights) look like a far leftist. We never had a chance to see how he would have done in the actual general election, but the one thing Dean was not, was boring (the stupid video proves this). We did not need loads of foreign policy experience because the american public already had turned against the Bush Foreign policy.

Not to mention that Dean had many things going for him that usually won general elections. He had a popular grass roots campaign and was a popular Governor (Governors have been rather successful in modern elections), and above all else he did not have a record on the Iraq war to explain away.

As to not arguing 9 year old things - maybe you should not make outrageous comments about things that happened 9 years ago - as they may be countered by others who disagree.


Maybe you shouldn't look for fights? This was a thread on the positions we took on the 1992 election and I was explaining my voting record and opinions.

And what in the world is outrageous about

I still get angry when I think of how the MSM killed his campaign.


and

I still think dean would have beaten Double Dumb in the General.


Both of these are opinions, shared by many democrats, and unless you are omniscient you have no way to prove or disprove.

Definitely looking for a fight.

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
132. There are so many errors here - I will list just some of them
Sun May 26, 2013, 09:41 PM
May 2013

1) The Democrats did NOT take back either house of Congress in 2004 - that was 2006.

2) Nothing I said was "outrageous" The fact is that Dean's campaign was nowhere near as good as it could have been. Trippi absolutely mismanaged it - leading to him having no money at a point where given what he raised he should have been ok.

In addition, he did not run as the former moderate Democrat from Vermont. He ran as the 2004 Trippi candidate - making some of the same angry charges against the others that the 2008 Trippi candidate (Edwards) did. In 2004 - unlike almost any other year, the voting issues were national security and foreign policy. Exit polls showed that Kerry was preferred on all the domestic issues, while he lost the national security issue. It is very hard to see Dean doing better.

I like Dean. I wanted either him or Kerry to win - and feared the nomination would go to someone I would have been unenthusiastic about. I think many disappointed Dean people never bothered to look at Kerry's history or even what he was running on. It is too bad as he was to the left of any nominee for decades - including Obama after him.

You might want to consider why Dean did not make an effort in DE, MO, SC, OK, NM, AZ, and ND after losing Iowa and NH to Kerry. His campaign announced he was not actively contesting them. I would argue that even with Kerry winning NH and Iowa, he could easily have been stopped. However, after he won 5 of those seven states - making him the winner in 9 out of 11, he was pretty unstoppable.

I really do not see why you feel the need to take away the accomplishment of running a very good nomination fight from Kerry. This is something he won through hard work and retail politics. No one gave it do him.

dsc

(52,187 posts)
51. Kerry's vote for the war is what did him in
Sun May 26, 2013, 11:57 AM
May 2013

Yes, his debate performances and Bush's unpopularity made it a close race, but the fact is no one who voted for that war was going to win, because our only shot against Bush was the war going to the toilet which it did. I do agree that what did in Dean wasn't the media but it was the finding of Saddam coupled with the ads. Finding Saddam made Democratic primary voters scared to nominate a candidate who opposed the war.

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
93. That might have been why he could not have won in 2008, but it was not true in 2004
Sun May 26, 2013, 05:48 PM
May 2013

The fact is that Kerry got the antiwar vote - in fact, he got the anti-war vote in the primaries! The fact is that in November 2004, a large majority of people did NOT think the war was going badly and the anti-war segment was less than 50 percent.

The fact is that Kerry was seen as against the war by most of the country. I know that he actually LOST some votes by his constant comment that this was not a war of last resort - which was HIS basis for saying that Bush lied the country to war. Bush did NOT do everything that could have done diplomatically - as he promised and he did not let the inspectors finish their work. I am from a large Catholic family - and the WWII generation hated that what he was saying was that the US was fighting an unjust war.

The fact is that Dean in 2002 was at least as aggressive in his comments as to what to do than Kerry - the difference was that he was not in Congress and thus did not have to vote. He DID say that he would have voted for Biden/Lugar the SFRC alternative that was not voted on - which Kerry worked on and preferred as well. However, no matter what resolution would have passed, Bush would have taken the country to war.

dsc

(52,187 posts)
99. my point is he couldn't go around trashing a war he voted for
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:15 PM
May 2013

making it impossible to produce an anti war majority, which is what we needed to have. I don't know if Dean would have produced it or not, but he was our only shot at doing so since he could legitimately trash the war.

karynnj

(59,522 posts)
118. That would have led to a HUGE Bush landslide
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:25 PM
May 2013

As I pointed out, Kerry likely took that issue to the line - as I know swing voters who still hold his comments against him - even though they agree now the war was a mistake. The fact is that "trashing a war" we are in is going to be extremely unpopular. Not to mention Wrong war, wrong time, wrong place is pretty clear - as was listing all the things Bush did wrong. (In fact, there was NOTHING Dean said that was stronger.)

In fact, the fact that Kerry gave Bush the authority trusting him to avoid war if possible almost gave him MORE ability to speak against it - as it showed he had taken the situation seriously and had been willing to give the President the support Bush said he needed to get the UN behind him and to get invasive sanctions. Not to mention, there was at least one Dean statement that would have been twisted to say that he would have gone in too - just like Bush. (He wouldn't have - nor would Kerry and, for the most part, people knew this in both of their cases.) In fact, one focus group in Ohio after the election showed that one large group of swing voters actually voted against Kerry because, terrorized as they were, they were concerned that with his basic morality, he would not do some of things Bush and Cheney would do "that kept us safe" but were immoral.

hobbit709

(41,694 posts)
19. That was one of the years I didn't vote in the primary but voted for Clinton in the general.
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:09 AM
May 2013

I'm 5 of 11 in the general elections now. Carter, Clinton(2), Obama(2)

The other times I got stuck with Nixon, Reagan, Bush and bush.

 

MrSlayer

(22,143 posts)
23. Sad to admit but I voted for Bush.
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:32 AM
May 2013

I was young and clueless about politics. I voted the way my dad wanted me to.

I didn't really become politically aware until a few years later.

Kath1

(4,309 posts)
31. Supported Jerry Brown initially
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:55 AM
May 2013

and voted for Bill Clinton. And I hope to vote for another Clinton in 2016!

onpatrol98

(1,989 posts)
32. This was the first one I was old enough to vote in...
Sun May 26, 2013, 09:08 AM
May 2013

I voted for Clinton in 92. And, then again for him the 2nd term. Although, for me, the shine was gone immediately afterwards.

Freddie

(9,300 posts)
36. Bill Clinton
Sun May 26, 2013, 09:29 AM
May 2013

Don't think I voted in the primaries that year, by the time it got to PA it was pretty much decided (usually the case). Was first impressed by the Big Dog because he plays the sax and so do I.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
39. I actually held a position in Tsongas' campaign HQ
Sun May 26, 2013, 09:43 AM
May 2013

Held my nose and voted for Clinton in the GE, knew he'd be big trouble.

salin

(48,955 posts)
86. what an idea: reinvest in our industrial infrastructure...
Sun May 26, 2013, 03:56 PM
May 2013

instead in that era we got NAFTA. (I voted for Tsongas).

JHB

(37,170 posts)
43. Supported Harkin early on, but by the time I voted Clinton had nearly sealed it
Sun May 26, 2013, 09:54 AM
May 2013

...for the nomination.

Voted for Clinton in the general.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
47. I didn't vote in the primary that year. Voted for Clinton in the general election.
Sun May 26, 2013, 11:50 AM
May 2013

I was twenty years old at the time. Boy, was I ever a sucker. The guy said repeatedly-- right there on the campaign trail-- that he was a bigger fiscal conservative than his opponent, but all I saw was the "D".

 

Pab Sungenis

(9,612 posts)
52. Supported Harkin in the primary.
Sun May 26, 2013, 11:58 AM
May 2013

He was out before the NJ Primary, so I voted for Brown.

Supported Clinton in the general.

Bluzmann57

(12,336 posts)
54. Harkin/Clinton
Sun May 26, 2013, 12:01 PM
May 2013

I'm an Iowan and supported our home guy, Senator Tom Harkin but voted for Bill Clinton in the general election. I have never voted for a repuke in my entire life, including a family friend who ran for County Supervisor. And I think I can safely say that I never will.

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
55. Ross Perot - I think he had it right on jobs being sucked out of
Sun May 26, 2013, 12:06 PM
May 2013

the country ... I was watching the jobs in hi-tech fly past me out of the country, especially programming in my company.

liberalmuse

(18,672 posts)
56. Clinton - my first time voting.
Sun May 26, 2013, 12:10 PM
May 2013

General only. And I've voted in every general election and most primaries ever since. I wasn't political until I saw Cheney doing what I essentially saw as jacking off on national tv while talking about "smart bombs". And then there was the thin-skinned, sniveling Bush. I couldn't bear the thought of him having another term. And I thought Clinton would make a good President from all I'd heard and seen from the man.

Historic NY

(37,471 posts)
57. Cinton...when the others flamed out in the primaries.......
Sun May 26, 2013, 12:15 PM
May 2013

the list of should or could have been contenders faded fairly early on in the face of Clinton overcoming his daliances that dropped him 20 points in a week.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
63. That was the first election I was 18+ for.
Sun May 26, 2013, 12:21 PM
May 2013

I did a protest vote and wrote in something silly, but I don't remember what.

 

Life Long Dem

(8,582 posts)
64. Voted for Tom Harkin in the primary
Sun May 26, 2013, 12:23 PM
May 2013

In New Hampshire. Clinton in the general. I remember Harkin was all for labor, and remember seeing him in a construction ditch with a shovel in his hand.

Tikki

(14,573 posts)
71. I was at University and had a religious studies class. The TA kept going on how the repugs owned..
Sun May 26, 2013, 01:06 PM
May 2013

that election.

Having been through 5 prior elections or so, had my doubts that boosh could pull this off and told the class.

Thought the TA might ding me, he seemed a bit bitter, but he just said the people have spoken.

Bill Clinton was a great President.


Tikki
ps. I think Jerry Brown would have been an outstanding President, also.

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
78. Tsongas in the Kansas caucus; Clinton in the general...
Sun May 26, 2013, 01:56 PM
May 2013

I was registered as an Independent since 1972 but joined the Democratic Party in 1992 so I could vote for Tsongas in the Kansas caucus. I liked what he as saying about the deficit.

When Clinton became the nominee, I voted for him.

Been in the Party ever since...

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
79. Missouri was still the largest state without a primary...........
Sun May 26, 2013, 02:30 PM
May 2013

But I voted for Clinton in the fall.

One of the things Clinton used to say repeatedly during his campaign speeches was that it was cheaper to send someone to college for 4 years than to send that person to prison for 4 years.

That is still very much so true today as well.

Auntie Bush

(17,528 posts)
82. Clinton/Clinton
Sun May 26, 2013, 03:50 PM
May 2013

Never regretted it and I'm going to vote for another one in 2016 and if Chelsey ever runs I'll vote for another Clinton. So there!

salin

(48,955 posts)
83. Tsongas/Clinton
Sun May 26, 2013, 03:53 PM
May 2013

Tsongas got out of the race the next day (he needed to win in one of the states that day: Illinois, Ohio or Michigan) and he didn't. He wasn't in the race very long.

 

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)
89. I have to admit
Sun May 26, 2013, 04:30 PM
May 2013

Perot and his charts were great I thought. I was even going to work for his campaign. I had never heard of Bill Clinton who already had drama from the get go. But as time went by, I saw the light, and voted for Clinton. Then came the debates, and I was already for Clinton/Gore by then. But Perot's pick for VP Stockdale and his "Who am I and why am I here" was the beginning to the end of Perot, along with Phil Hartman's portrayal of Stockdale, and Dana Carvey as Perot.






LWolf

(46,179 posts)
91. nobody/Clinton
Sun May 26, 2013, 05:37 PM
May 2013

I wasn't eligible to vote in the primary, being an independent leftist. I voted for Clinton in the GE, even though I wasn't real comfortable with him. My first introduction to him was on 60 minutes; an episode talking about his past infidelities where Hillary said she wasn't "standing by her man" while she stood by her man.

I pegged him as a cheater. To me, that meant that: 1. He wouldn't stop cheating, despite a public "reform," and 2. It made him likely to cheat in other areas as well.

The desperation to oust Bush I and put the Reagan revolution and all associated with it behind us compelled me to vote for him anyway; there wasn't another good choice.

My misgivings turned out to be solid; Clinton brought the neoliberal DLC to power.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
92. I decided early that I was going to support the guy that hired the
Sun May 26, 2013, 05:45 PM
May 2013

most ruthless campaign manager Democrats had ever produced, James Carville. Once in a while, I'm correct.

elleng

(131,718 posts)
101. Paul Tsongas
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:19 PM
May 2013

May have voted for Clinton in General but as lived in DC, didn't really matter. May have done so to demonstrate civic responsibility to daughters, but was really pissed at Clinton for what he did to/said about Tsongas during primary process.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
104. Voted for Bill Clinton, I became a fan when he ran for Governor of Arkansas in 1980.
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:27 PM
May 2013

To this day I remain a supporter, after the following of George W he looks better all the time.

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
106. I was only 16 in 1992 but I voted for Clinton in 1996
Sun May 26, 2013, 06:34 PM
May 2013

when I was in college. 1992 was the first presidential election in which I was not a kid anymore. As a junior in high school, I was more aware. I disliked the Republicans even though my parents were and still are die hard conservatives. I was for anyone that could beat Poppy Bush, and Clinton did (with help from old Ross Perot).

Lady Freedom Returns

(14,120 posts)
113. I was 14 and just started homeschool.
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:10 PM
May 2013

My father was big on Bush.

My Mother would never talk about who she would vote for. Instead she would ask me what I though of what was being talked about. What sounded right to me.

I listened to the speeches and the debts. I could not understand what my father saw in Bush, and I asked him why? He said because he was moral. And I asked about some of the policies that sounded as if they would hurt us since we were poor. He said that they would only hurt those that did not work hard enough.

He did not see that they were going to hurt us, that it did not matter how hard you worked. Heck with what I saw and read, the more you worked, if you made under a certain amount ( a lot like now) you paid even more. And, just like now, the republicans in general wanted to hurt the programs that would help people.

When I pointed this out to him, at 14 mind you, he was pissed. He said I needed to check my moral compass and remember that I am a woman. I need focus on a good factory job and finding a good, moral man to tell me the right way to vote.

So I went to Mom to ask about what I was just told. She said what do I feel about what he said. I said he was warped. She smiled and said for me to do whatever felt right. If following such an idea as my father put out felt right, then do it. However since I didn't, then not going that way was right.

She told me that to truly follow ones own compass was to first see that I was the one to read it. No one could say what the right way was. They could not read it for me, nor could they make the direction what they wanted. True happiness came from following it, and not let others tell me otherwise.

So as the years went by I found myself on the Liberal side of the issues, to the chagrin of my father. When I went to register to vote, my father took me. He was standing there when I was asked about a party, I said Democrat. He made me walk home.

For me the 1992 election was a big deal.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
116. In '92 I wanted Cuomo and I wasn't thrilled with the final primary candidates.
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:18 PM
May 2013

I liked Harkin but didn't think he had a chance. I don't even recall who I voted for in the primary now. I did vote for Bubba in the general, of course.

LeftInTX

(25,970 posts)
121. I can't remember whether I voted for Tsongas or Clinton
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:40 PM
May 2013

I preferred Tsongas, but thought Clinton was more electable.
Voted for Clinton in the GE

former9thward

(32,253 posts)
123. Brown/Perot
Sun May 26, 2013, 07:44 PM
May 2013

Brown was still a fresh face then and was not as cranky as he has become. I believed Perot on NAFTA and still do.

petronius

(26,616 posts)
129. Through the fog of 20+ years I recall liking Tsongas, but who my vote in the primary
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:49 PM
May 2013

went to I can't recall. Clinton in the general, of course...

Robbins

(5,066 posts)
130. Well
Sun May 26, 2013, 08:58 PM
May 2013

I was only elgable to vote In general.That was my first time voting.I turned 18 that year.In november I voted for Bill Clinton.And unlike some here In Missouri haven't quite voting democratic since then.

NBachers

(17,229 posts)
133. I supported Clinton and was confident enough in his victory that I made a symbolic vote for Perot
Sun May 26, 2013, 10:47 PM
May 2013

I was giddy at the thought of what the Jerry Brown / Jesse Jackson administration would look like - Think of the people they would've brought into the government with them.

ChoppinBroccoli

(3,790 posts)
135. My First Presidential Election
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:29 AM
May 2013

By the time it got to Ohio, it was down to Clinton and Tsongas, and I voted for Clinton (I was pretty ardently supporting him at that point anyway). My dad voted for Tsongas. And I've voted for the Democratic nominee every year since. Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama.

TheKentuckian

(25,035 posts)
136. By the time it got to the Commonwealth, all there was to do was to rubber stamp Bubba
Mon May 27, 2013, 06:36 AM
May 2013

and get ready to do it again in a few months.

tabbycat31

(6,336 posts)
139. I was 12 then
Mon May 27, 2013, 09:29 AM
May 2013

But I 'voted' for Clinton in my middle school mock election that way. When it came time to tally our homeroom's votes (we had an electoral college where each homeroom was a state), I was the only one to vote for Clinton. Everyone else was Bush or Perot.

 

graham4anything

(11,464 posts)
141. just realized never gave my answer.Voted for Jerry Brown/Jesse Jackson in primary & Bill in general
Wed May 29, 2013, 08:02 PM
May 2013

and voted for Bill enthusiastsically

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