US Airline Kicks 101 Yeshiva Students Off NY Flight

[Purveyor]

A group of 101 yeshiva students and their eight accompanying chaperones were asked to remove themselves from an airplane which was scheduled to fly from New York to Atlanta Monday morning, CNN reported.

Southwest Airlines reportedly said the group of "non-compliant passengers" would not remain seated or stop using their mobile devices. According to CNN, once the students failed to comply, they were asked to leave the aircraft. The dispute caused the flight to be delayed 45 minutes, Southwest spokesman Brad Hawkins told CNN.

The group from Yeshivah of Flatbush, an Orthodox Jewish high school in Brooklyn, apparently said the flight crew overreacted to the excitement of the students who were looking forward to their school trip which included a day at Six Flags theme park, said CNN.

"It blew out of proportion. It was a mountain out of a molehill," a teacher and chaperone of the school trip Marian Wielgus reportedly told CNN.

According to Wielgus, the students were asked more than once to sit and shut off their mobile telephones, and the requests were adhered to.

MORE...

http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/NY-Airline-kicks-101-yeshiva-students-off-airplane-315368

[uppityperson]

1. If the "requests were adhered to" why were they asked "more than once"?

[ZombieHorde]

2. Good question. nt

[LittleBlue]

3. Indeed

That part doesn't make any sense.

[NaturalHigh]

7. I wondered about that too.

[LanternWaste]

11. Steward asks person A, person A complies. Stewards asks person B, person B complies. Stward asks per

Steward asks person A, person A complies. Stewards asks person B, person B complies. Stward asks person C, person C complies. etc.

Requests adhered to, yet still allows for more than one request.



One possibility.

[Yo_Mama]

19. Because they were adhered to for 45 seconds!

Hey, everyone's been in a group like this that gets a bit out of control. Teenagers. We were all teens once.

The airlines have some funny definition of "adherence" where when they tell you to sit down, fasten your seatbelts and turn off your mobile phones until you are told you can unfasten your seat belts, stand up and use your mobile devices, they expect you to keep FOLLOWING instructions. Bizarre, but there it is.

There's no benefit to the airline of booting the passengers. This group wasn't following instructions.

[MADem]

32. I know a female flight attendant who has told me that she has difficulty getting male

conservative religious passengers to comply with flight attendant directives on flights to Tel Aviv.

From what I understand, when the passengers get unreasonable and won't clear the aisles (a very common problem, owing to an insistence on standing and praying in the aisles or trying to commandeer the galley for this purpose)--in order for the FAs to do a food or beverage service, or because of turbulence--- one of the flight attendants will walk down the aisle complaining loudly of menstrual cramps and asking another FA for a kotex or waving a tampon like a baton--that causes the conservative religious males to scatter as they don't care for menstruating women and consider them "unclean" to the point that touching them is a no-no.

It also reduces requests for additional drinks, snacks and so forth.

It is sometimes a very trying flight. There are some who think the "value" associated with the flight in terms of paid flight time and tourism opportunities isn't worth the agita of passenger management during the flight.

[NYC_SKP]

4. From experience: 8 chaperones are not nearly enough for 101 students. They needed 20-25.

We recommend a four-one ratio, and many schools require this for trips out of town.

Obviously, the eight that they did select didn't have a handle on things, and hadn't prepared the 101 for the realities and rules of flying, or this wouldn't have happened.

Sad all the way around.

[Mr. David]

15. Yeshivas are always asking us for funds..

and we still get solicitations even though my grandfather (who was very generous) passed away 13 years ago, and we live in his place now.

[Ilsa]

27. I agree. At least double what they had. nt

[petronius]

5. I'd guess 109 people would have been 3/4 or so of the capacity

Wonder if they loaded other passengers, or flew the plane mostly empty? Pretty expensive mistake for the flight crew, if they got it wrong...

[NYC_SKP]

16. Expensive? Not likely. Tickets are typically unrefundable.

The airlines tried to hook them up on other flights, and that would have been whatever might be available.

The article says it was to be a hardship for some students who had connecting flights, which suggests that they didn't book it through the group sales department.

Everyone on their own, learning an expensive lesson, but those seat were paid for and the flight to ATL made it on considerably less fuel!

[petronius]

22. Heh, you're right - I didn't really think that through...

[MineralMan]

6. On a flight this past winter to MSP airport in MN from LAX,

There was a group of high school students from the debating club at a local high school on the plane. About 40 kids, plus their teacher and about three adults. They arrived at the airport very early, as I always do, and were in the waiting area at the gate. As we were waiting to board the plane, the teacher or advisor gathered the kids around in a group and talked to them. They were all excited about the trip, and chattering away and using their cell phones.

The advisor asked for their attention, and they got silent. Then, he explained the boarding process, and told them how to behave when they got on the plane. He didn't speak loudly, but he told them that before they got on the plane, they were all to shut down their cell phones, find their seats quickly, stow their carry-ons either under the seat or in the overhead, and listen carefully to the flight attendant's instructions. "Cell phones off until we land in Minneapolis," He repeated. Most of the kids shut them off right then and put them away.

I was sitting in the middle of this group of kids in coach. From the time they got on the plane until we got off in Minneapolis, they were quiet, polite, and well-behaved. They bothered nobody and nobody bothered them. They were not asked to leave the plane, but made their trip to whatever competition they were going to just fine.

The only problem I could see was that none of them had adequate clothing for the sub-zero weather they were about to experience, but they were kids ranging in age from 14-17. They'd survive on sheer energy.

There is no excuse for a chaperoned group of teens not behaving on a plane. All of that information should have been given to them before they ever got on the plane by the adults. Odds are that was the first flight for many of them. How are they to know what to do unless they get instructions from an adult.

Teenagers need guidance. If they don't get it, they're clueless in new situations.

[madaboutharry]

13. Exactly, it is the fault of the adults

in charge who failed to properly instruct them on how to behave on the flight.

[MineralMan]

14. Yup. They're teenagers. Teenagers need direction, since

they don't have experience. It doesn't matter if their Yeshiva students or students from some suburban high school in Minnesota. Their behavior is the responsibility of the adults accompanying them.

It's easy. They just have to be instructed on how to behave on an airline flight. They don't know that information. Big mistake. I don't fault the kids at all.

[Jenoch]

21. I once flew from Frankfurt

to MSP with a two hour layover in Detroit with a bunch of 8th grade German students. On that long of a flight, I got to meet many of them because my aisle seat in the full plane was next to the window seat on the starboard side. When we were over land, they switched seats every 20 minutes so they all got to look out the window (most of their seats were in the middle five rows of the aircraft).

These were some of the most well-behaved kids I have seen. Granted, they were on their way home and were pretty tired. The boys all had Tyrolean hats which they took off when they boarded rhe plane.

[FarCenter]

26. I'm sure the flight attendants provided the students with all the information they needed.

The students disregarded the information from the flight attendant and from the captain.

What information beyond "Please be seated for departure" and "Please discontinue use of all electronic devices" would they need?

[ananda]

18. I agree.

I sometimes have to come down on rambunctious teens and tweens, but I only
sub in places where they comply when I need them to.

There are some school where the teens just won't comply.
These are typically the schools that are rated unacceptable
or where the students are very much at risk. My problem
with dealing with them is my age. I just can't take the stress
mentally or physically any more, so I only work at the better
schools now. I figure this is OK karmically because I really
worked hard with difficult, low-performing kids for many years
before my body started breaking down from stress.

[Yo_Mama]

20. A very, very good point. n/t

[closeupready]

8. That makes me sad, but kids can't just make up their own rules

as they go along. Hopefully, a valuable lesson was learned, and they can do it at another time.

[uppityperson]

9. WaPo article with a bit more. The airline could not kick off only some of them, but the actions of

a few made it so all were gone. If they were not a school group with chaperones, only the ones not turning off phones would get kicked off. But with any school group, what happens in the group affects the whole group.

The airline may have acted too fast, but I would be very surprised if it was from anti-semitism.


http://m.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/airtran-throws-100-students-plus-chaperones-off-flight-from-nyc-to-atlanta/2013/06/04/ce7cdae4-cd4d-11e2-8573-3baeea6a2647_story.html

[MineralMan]

10. It was because nobody told the kids what to do before they got on

the plane. It is that simple. A good number of those kids were probably on their first flight. The adults should have informed them clearly about the rules before they ever got on the plane. That didn't happen, and their trip got disrupted. It's nobody's fault but the kids and the adults accompanying them. The airline was justified in their action.

[MineralMan]

12. The flight was delayed 45 minutes.

Some people on that flight to Atlanta had connecting flights in Atlanta. The students probably cause some to miss their flights. If they couldn't get the students calmed down and compliant with the mobile device rules, then the students were rightly ejected from the flight.

I blame the adults who were accompanying the students. This should not have happened, and it was the adults' responsibility to have informed the kids of the rules in advance. Many of the kids had probably never flown before.

[uppityperson]

24. You do not blame the kids for not listening and doing what they were told by the cabin

attendants and captain of the plane?

Yes, it would have been good if the adults had told them what to expect, but I do not see anything saying they did not. However, I blame those who chose to ignore the flight crew.

[MineralMan]

28. Do you pay attention to that stuff,

Or do you know the rules? I know the rules and pay no attention at all to the announcement. I could give them. The kids do not know the rules, or even that there are rules. Teens pay little attention.

[uppityperson]

30. On my first couple flights, yes. I also expected my teen and friend to do so.Paying little attention

is not an excuse.

And yes, I still hear when they say shut off electronics and shut mine off.

"teens pay little attention" to flight staff so why should they pay attention to the chaperones? The problem is they need to pay attention to the flight attendants and bet they do so next time. It is their fault for not listening and doing what they were told. It was not the adult chaperones fault. It is a life lesson and the sooner they learn it, the better they will be. Listen when those running the show talk to you. If you are a teen, you are old enough to do so, to not need holding down and be forced to listen to the rules. If you chose to not listen or not follow them, it is your own fault. Teen or not.

[Pragdem]

17. I don't understand why people are so defiant then stir up a fuss when they face repercussions. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. teenagers dont have good sense yet. we were all teens and did things

that we did not like the repercussions of

[marmar]

23. There are adults who don't turn off their phones after the announcement.

[Jenoch]

33. Alec Baldwin comes to mind.

If they were delayed by 45 minutes and in that time they could not get the teens to settle down, SouthWest made the corrct decision.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. ugh. i sympathize with anyone who has to ask college age kids to turn their phone off

its an uphill battle

[ProdigalJunkMail]

31. nice slanted headline there...

i know it's not the OP's headline as it came from the story... but it could also read

101 Yeshiva Students Delay Flight and are Removed from Plane

or

101 Yeshiva Students Ignore Flight Attendant Instructions and are Removed

or

US Airline Actually Enforces Rules


sP