Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 04:22 AM Jun 2013

German man locked up over HVB bank allegations may have been telling truth


German man locked up over HVB bank allegations may have been telling truth

Gustl Mollath was put in a psychiatric unit for claiming his wife was involved in money-laundering at the Bavarian bank. But seven years on evidence has emerged that could set him free

Horst Seehofer, the prime minister of Bavaria, has called for Gustl Mollath's case to be reopened. Photograph: Pawel Kopczynski/Reuters

A German man committed to a high-security psychiatric hospital after being accused of fabricating a story of money-laundering activities at a major bank is to have his case reviewed after evidence has emerged proving the validity of his claims.

In a plot worthy of a crime blockbuster, Gustl Mollath, 56, was submitted to the secure unit of a psychiatric hospital seven years ago after court experts diagnosed him with paranoid personality disorder following his claims that staff at the Hypo Vereinsbank (HVB) – including his wife, then an assets consultant at HVB – had been illegally smuggling large sums of money into Switzerland.

Mollath was tried in 2006 after his ex-wife accused him of causing her physical harm. He denied the charges, claiming she was trying to sully his name in the light of the evidence he allegedly had against her. He was admitted to the clinic, where he has remained against his will ever since.

But recent evidence brought to the attention of state prosecutors shows that money-laundering activities were indeed practiced over several years by members of staff at the Munich-based bank, the sixth-largest private financial institute in Germany, as detailed in an internal audit report carried out by the bank in 2003. The report, which has now been posted online, detailed illegal activities including money-laundering and aiding tax evasion. A number of employees, including Mollath's wife, were subsequently sacked following the bank's investigation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/28/gustl-mollath-hsv-claims-fraud
16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
German man locked up over HVB bank allegations may have been telling truth (Original Post) The Straight Story Jun 2013 OP
Wow...just wow. dkf Jun 2013 #1
More proof of the old saying: just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean dimbear Jun 2013 #2
Great money will go to great lengths to keep itself "safe" DFW Jun 2013 #3
+100 truebluegreen Jun 2013 #4
They will likely serve the same term OUR banksters did annabanana Jun 2013 #9
wonder if the wife got another banking job... HiPointDem Jun 2013 #5
well, no, banks have to look clean reorg Jun 2013 #13
figures, new agey-type hucksterism. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #14
Ah, psychiatry; the soft headed science. Xipe Totec Jun 2013 #6
Can anyone find an English report of the trial? muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #7
Actually, you are probably correct in your suspicions DFW Jun 2013 #10
Wrong, regarding the power of judges to commit reorg Jun 2013 #12
Try again DFW Jun 2013 #15
the number of detainees has been steadily rising reorg Jun 2013 #16
What you say is NOT worth bearing in mind reorg Jun 2013 #11
I've wondered about this sort of thing for a long time. Jerry442 Jun 2013 #8

dimbear

(6,271 posts)
2. More proof of the old saying: just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 05:12 AM
Jun 2013

they're not out to get you.

Very strange.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
3. Great money will go to great lengths to keep itself "safe"
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 05:45 AM
Jun 2013

If there were any justice, the people responsible for this man's treatment would be locked up at least as long.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
13. well, no, banks have to look clean
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 03:56 PM
Jun 2013

while carrying out their dirty business.

The wife, now married to a former colleague at the bank who was also involved in the money laundering scheme, is now offering another form of cleansing:



[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Petra Maske / About me / My life:[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]The time with the bank was instructive for me. I experienced how important it is for our body, our spirit, and our soul to be in harmony, so we can meet the challenges of job, family and partnership with calmness.

This led to my encounter with Reiki and I began with meditation training. My interest was aroused, and shortly thereafter I completed a ghost healing program.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
7. Can anyone find an English report of the trial?
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 06:11 AM
Jun 2013

Wikipedia and some blogs say he was accused of beating his wife, and slashing people's tyres

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustl_Mollath
http://cheaptelevision1.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/the-case-mollath-comes-to-television.html

An auto-translated Der Spiegel article: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fpanorama%2Fjustiz%2Ffall-gustl-mollath-zweifel-an-opferrolle-a-872632.html

It is worth bearing in mind the reason given for locking him up was the violent behaviour, not the accusations. Now, if the claims now are that the evidence for the violence was all fabricated, that's an important part of the new case.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
10. Actually, you are probably correct in your suspicions
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:48 AM
Jun 2013

Germany is not the Soviet Union. They don't lock you away here in a mental institution for pure convenience. However, if the wife WAS indeed involved in funny business, it certainly came as MOST convenient that the guy had behavioral problems. His institutionalizing for such a long period is highly unusual here.

In Germany, it's usually the opposite problem. They tend to let people with violent tendencies OUT of such institutions prematurely, and then the officials that were too lenient (or too lazy) refuse all responsibility for their lax diagnosis. If this guy was locked up for his violence, it is still HIGHLY suspicious that he was confined for so long uninterrupted--at least it's very atypical of the German system. If he did stumble upon his wife's activity, I'm sure she and her higher-ups pulled some strings to make sure that his discovery was categorized as paranoia, rather than something independent of his illness.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
12. Wrong, regarding the power of judges to commit
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 01:26 PM
Jun 2013

someone to a psychiatric institution, Germany is just the same, or worse than the Soviet Union. I'd suggest you read up a little on this incredible scandal.

And, contrary to your unsupported claim, "they" do not "tend to let people with violent tendencies out of such institutions". Total bollocks, if someone is committed undefinitely, they never get out.

DFW

(54,369 posts)
15. Try again
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:20 AM
Jun 2013

I've been stationed here in Germany for decades and my wife is a German social worker. The Germans let people with violent tendencies out of confinement all the time. All the perp has to do is convince the case worker that he is "rehabilitated," and out he comes, at the very least on a "Probezeit.". A reasonably intelligent psychopath can do this, and some do. So, for your "total bollocks:" total bollocks. How much time have you spent on such cases in Germany anyway? My wife has about three decades of it.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
16. the number of detainees has been steadily rising
Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:03 AM
Jun 2013

according to the Federal Office of Statistics (Statistisches Bundesamt) and informed observers:

Committed to psychiatric institutions due to order by criminal judge (Im psychiatrischen Krankenhaus und in der Entziehungsanstalt aufgrund strafrichterlicher Anordnung Untergebrachte)

1987: 3746
1989: 3874
1991: 4028
1993: 4522
1995: 4789
1997: 4983
1998: 5460
1999: 5883
2000: 6182
2001: 6601
2002: 7134
2003: 7824
2004: 8276
2005: 8658
2006: 9021
2007: 9361
2008: 9538
2009: 9670
2010: 10019
2011: 10423

see also: http://www.patverfue.de/handbuch/statistik

I'll refrain from listing my relatives with working experience in relevant fields, suffice it to say that my claim in the previous post was based on what a judge who had the power and did commit people to institutions indefinitely once told me.


The judge's decision in Mollath's case was based on Paragraph 63 StGB:

As explained here (Justiz online, in German), the following conditions have to be met for a judge to take such a decision.

1. An unlawful act has been committed
2. The perpetrator is incapable of contracting guilt (Schuldunfähigkeit, § 20 StGB)
3. The perpetrator poses a danger to the general public
(true even if the perpetrator only poses danger to a single person)
4. There must be a causal relationship between his mental defect and his dangerousness.

Mollath did believe and still does that his wife committed illegal acts and conspired with others to wear him down or finish him off when he started writing letters to expose these acts. The judge found that he committed violent acts as a consequence of these "paranoid" beliefs. Failing a retrial, these findings don't change.

A yearly review of the patient's condition only checks if he is still insane and thus still poses a danger.

Despite all the public attention his case has received in the last months, and although it should be clear by now that his "paranoid thought system" is indeed quite rational and fact-based, the latest review a few weeks ago did not result in Mollath's release. How is this even possible? You tell me.

reorg

(3,317 posts)
11. What you say is NOT worth bearing in mind
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 01:11 PM
Jun 2013

There had been two alleged incidents of violence, both of which he denies.

1. Beating and biting during an altercation with his wife which allegedly took place in August 2001.

2. Slashing of various car tires - between December 2004 and February 2005. There is no direct evidence that Mollath had anything to do with this.


The wife waits to press charges for the beating until January 2003. Shortly before the trial (September 2003) her attorney alleges that Mollath is mentally ill. The court decides to defer judgement pending a psychiatric evalution.

A forensic-psychiatric report finds in July 2005 that "the accused has developed a paranoid thought system". His paranoid thoughts, according to the report, center around a "complex illegal money transfer system" in which his wife is involved. (The patient has never been examined in person by the author of this psychiatric report.)

The case is transferred to a state court (Landgericht).

In August 2006, the state court finds that the accused has probably committed the violent acts but is not criminally responsible due to psychological dysfunctions. Since his "increasing aggressivity" (first the beating in 2001, then the tire slashing in 2005) constitutes a danger to public safety, the court orders commitment to a psychiatric institution.


So, technically, the court did indeed lock him up based on its finding that he was a danger to the general public. That's because a court cannot commit somebody for any other reason. But, even if you assume for a second that he actually may have committed these violent acts, is one incident of beating your wife and slashing some car tires several years later really a reason to lock someone up indefinitely?

If he had been found guilty and criminally responsible for these acts, his maximum sentence would have been 2 years on probation or something like that. Only in combination with his alleged "paranoid thoughts", which now have been found to be very much based on reality, his alleged misconduct could possibly have led to the extreme punishment exerted.

Since this scandal broke, a vast number of articles have been published about it. A small number of them still tries to somehow salvage the criminal behavior of the judge involved (he is actually part of the conspiracy, the "paranoid thought system&quot , pointing out that Mollath is a kook ("He even wrote a letter to the pope!!1! How insane is that??&quot .


Some documentation, only in German, though, sorry.

Mollath during statement in church
(- in favor of students protesting the Iraq war, March 2003)



ARD Interview with Mollath


Mollath explaining his situation (6 parts)


Chronology in Süddeutsche Zeitung
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/chronologie-zum-fall-gustl-mollath-schwierige-suche-nach-der-wahrheit-1.1542305

Chronology at Bayerischer Rundfunk
http://www.br.de/nachrichten/mittelfranken/gustl-mollath-chronologie-100.html

Chronology by Mollath supporters
http://www.gustl-for-help.de/chronos.html

Series of articles at Telepolis
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/39/39181/1.html

Jerry442

(1,265 posts)
8. I've wondered about this sort of thing for a long time.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 06:47 AM
Jun 2013

So, some whistle-blower tries to throw sand into the gears of a smoothly functioning billion-dollar scam machine. Do we really believe that in every case, the scamsters just shrug and say, "Oh well, you got us"?

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»German man locked up over...