Putting aside Snowden, the President and everyone else

[cali]

I believe this moment and this discussion is vitally important. It raises these questions:

Is the surveillance state out of control, or on the verge of becoming so?

How much surveillance is OK?

Is this about keeping us safe or is it about the military industrial state or both?

Is the threat of terrorism being used as a tool?

Is it OK for sub-contracting private corporations to be as involved as they are in spying?

Does an overarching national security system set us up for "turn key tyranny"?

Can National Security agencies ever be properly overseen and controlled?

And that's just for starters.

[Zorra]

1. It is all about protecting the wealth, power, and control of wealthy private interests.

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power." FDR

What we are experiencing, in its essence, is fascism- ownership of our government by wealthy private interests.

This is not rocket science.

[cantbeserious]

2. Agreed - The Oligarchs Are Just Flexing Their Fingers

eom

[Laelth]

3. Very good questions. I agree that this moment is vitally important.

The President said he welcomes this discussion, but I have to wonder whether he really means that. His closest allies, here on DU, seem none too happy that this discussion is taking place at all.

-Laelth

[reformist2]

4. One thing is clear - we must preserve non-internet avenues of communication!

[KharmaTrain]

5. Redefining Privacy...

I hope that cooler heads will prevail on this issue and we look into how much privacy we really do have...not just from the government but from corporates as well. Virtually every transaction we make today is recorded and stored and datamined...to the point where if you don't have one or more credit cards or a phone number you are at a financial disadvantage. Then there's the "mining" that is done by employers who can and do look at personal financial records and most definitely are monitoring all phone calls and internet communications that emanates from their offices. The mining of our buying habits and movement has become a big business that PRISM is just the tip of a very big and global iceberg...

[randome]

6. When you say surveillance state, do you mean the collecting of data for non-Americans?

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[cali]

7. both. Anyone who doesn't grasp that there is massive spying on Americans is a total fool or tool

or both.

[randome]

12. I tend to think of myself as neither but if you want to assume the worst, go right ahead.

I mean, you've already made the Great Leap from 'the government is spying on me' to 'Anyone who disagrees with me is a tool or a fool.'

What's next?

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[Octafish]

8. 'Turn Key Tyranny'

From a marketing POV, it has, albeit final for democracy, a nice ring to it.

[Whisp]

9. Should we feel better that corporations rather than governments know private things about us?

I think they should be even more feared.

I'm very uncomfortable with both but this is part of our lives now and what technology has granted us in both bad and good.

I also think this latest bruhaha is just another made up scandal to attack the President, like all the previous that fell through as non stories.

We will see, after the story dies out and is found to be, *ahem, Lacking, how many here that have been jumping up and down about it will continue this very important conversation. Odds are the subject too will fade away, unless it's got an attachment to the President again in the future.

[treestar]

10. That could have been discussed the last three days

But it seems to be too nuanced for a lot of posters. They'd rather claim they are in a police state unless all of the classified documents are dumped.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. I think most of those questions are answered by the 4th Amendment.