Snowden lied about his salary...

[HipChick]

He only made $120,000 a year...confirmed by Booze Allen Hamilton...contractor rates in the industry are good, but not $200,000 good without advanced degrees...

First rule in being a martyr..don't lie..it adds to lack of credibility...

[Puzzledtraveller]

1. ...............................

I have no words for this.

[HipChick]

3. I do...IRS audit...or maybe he was being paid from someone other entity..or maybe he is just a liar.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/snowden-fired_n_3421182.html

[Catherina]

14. The desperation is amusing lol n/t

[leftynyc]

51. What desperation?

You mean the desperation of those who put their faith into a "hero" and finding out he lied? That desperation? There are those who are waiting for this story to unfold before deciding hero/goat. Looks like your desperation to have a hero allows no need for that.

[Summer Hathaway]

64. ...

[Android3.14]

70. No silly,

It's the desperation of people who are trying to justify why fascist tactics of a military police state are okay as long as a Democrat is the one doing it. I've never seen a group of people twisting themselves up into knots like this.
Snowden isn't our focus nor our hero. The theft of our civil liberties is the problem.
Seriously, does the cognitive dissonance cause headaches?

[leftynyc]

76. I have no idea what you're babbling about

we don't know the whole story, we don't know much of anything except many here revere glen greenwald and will swallow whatever he's serving up. "fascist tactics of a military police state" while you're posting freely on an internet board - talk about twisting oneself into a knot.

[Android3.14]

102. Twist and twist and twist. Now it's not Snowden we worship, it's Greenwald

The movement from one shirt to tear to another shirt is amazing. Will you have any wardrobe left by the end of the day?
A person who values freedom and liberty recognizes that a state secretly monitoring it's innocent population is unacceptable. The ease with which a state can move from setting up the infrastructure of a police state to actually implementing it is probably faster than it was in the 1930s.
Seriously, I think your response to this particular crisis has more to do with being unable to accept the fact that Obama betrayed your trust rather than any supposed acceptance of this denial of our Constitutional Rights.
Ask yourself this, were you as comfortable with this when Dick Cheney was the one tracking you?

[leftynyc]

115. Nobody has betrayed my trust

as I had zero faith in the government to begin with. They're doing the same thing google does and if you didn't know this was going on before this week, you haven't been paying attention which is certainly not my problem. And worshipping greenwald? Why? As far as I can see, he possibly could be complicit in all this as he was working with snowden since before he got this job (since Feb). I don't do worshiping of self aggrandizing narcissists.

[Android3.14]

131. Again, you are making little sense.

First you wrote, "we don't know much of anything except many here revere glen greenwald and will swallow whatever he's serving up."
And then you write, "And worshipping greenwald? Why?"
So which is it? Are people unhappy at the lies and unjustified surveillance, or are they worshiping Snowden, or are they worshiping Greenwald, or are they not worshiping Greenwald? You are contradicting yourself from one post to the next.
This is a symptom of cognitive dissonance...your cognitive dissonance, not mine.
Maybe you ought to write your thoughts into a diary, a paper diary, which the government would find much more difficult to monitor.
Just sayin'.

[leftynyc]

142. Pretending not to understand

is pretty tiresome but I'll play along and babysit you through it. If you don't see the worshipping of both greenwald and snowden here, you're not paying attention. I didnt' support the patriot act which is what all this hails from and if you didn't realize it gave the government unlimited powers to snoop, you simply didn't understand what it was which is also not my problem. Snoden broke the law - and instead of standing by his actions, he ran away to freeking Hong Kong. Do you understand that much? You want to pretend he's the second coming of Ellsberg (who stayed and stood by his actions) and I simply see a fleeing criminal. Is that simple enough for you?

As for greenwald, he's an attention whore who is practically begging to get arrested so he can play the martyr - I'm hoping the administration sees it for what it is and ignores him.

[arthritisR_US]

57. I don't see it as desperation, credibility is paramount

when one is casting aspersions on others.

[cali]

2. Actually, we don't know if he lied.

Salary often doesn't include all compensation.

[HipChick]

7. He is a contractor on contract rates...he wouldn't be getting much else

unless he was being paid out of pocket expenses..

[Luminous Animal]

19. Contractors don't get salaries. He worked for a contractor.

[Recursion]

47. Employees of contractors are called "contractors". Yes, it's confusing. (nt)

[LVZ]

90. In Hawaii - salary + COLA + relocation + incentives

In Hawaii, there is often a substantial Cost-of-Living-Allowance (COLA) that gets added to one's salary. There are also relocation bonuses and other incentives. It is quite possible that the total salary package could be a lot closer to $200K than the base salary put out by Booz Allen.

If I remember correctly, my COLA as a former Federal employee in Honolulu was probably 25% of my total compensation.

[pnwmom]

4. He should show his pay stub to Greenwald then.

It would be easy enough for him to prove.

[cali]

8. And how do YOU know that he hasn't?

[pnwmom]

16. Then Greenwald should publish it. Easy enough for him to do. n/t

[sibelian]

24. I NEED HIM TO BE THE GOOD GUY.

How will I feel good about myself if I turn out to have been SUPPORTING THE WRONG GUY?

OMG.

I will feel so embarassed.

You are right about the pay stub. In fact, do you know what, I'm going to write adown a big list of my expectations of him because I've noticed that the more expectations of him I have the better I feel. Also mental effort expended on developing new expectations of him is mental effort not spent on the thing he did in the first place, whatever it was, which, thankfully, is slipping from my mind. I feel good about that because it gave me the creepiest feeling, IIRC. So glad we're over all that.

I've decided that I expect him to be kinda tall and to have a deep voice. Wouldn't it be cool if there was a movie? Who would play him?

Do you like XBox?

[bitchkitty]

61. LOL n/t

[krawhitham]

5. I sure he lied about a lot

That is why journalists should still require independent confirmation for stories

[cali]

6. your panting eagerness to discredit and smear Snowden is creepy.

This really isn't about him. duh.

[HipChick]

36. As is your lack of information about how the contracting industry actually works

[cali]

45. Hardly. It's your ignorance. For fuck's sake, BA has confirmed that he was NOT A CONTRACTOR

He was on salary. That you can't figure out something as simple as the fact that BA was the contractor and Snowden was an employee of said contractor, says it all about your intellectual capacity.

[HipChick]

52. I worked in the contractor industry for over a decade..

BAH is a Govt contractor...he works for BAH...he is still a contractor, salary or contractor rates regardless..

BAH is just one of many companies with federal divisions that do this...

It is not the same as your experience at Walmart..

[cali]

71. At Walmart, pumpkin? What makes you think that I worked at Walmart?

Amusingly, I've been in a Walmart exactly once in my life.

and who gives a shit if you worked in the "contractor industry"? That doesn't make the shit you post anymore factual.

He was a salaried employee of a corporation, honeypie. You can deny that all you want, but that's a fact.

Now do continue on with your creepy pursuit of Snowden- who is hardly the most important part of the story.

[KittyWampus]

103. creepy pursuit? Facts speak for themselves. They aren't creepy. And since Greenwald lied

or didn't fact check what he was given, facts are all we have. It goes to credibility.

[HipChick]

107. I do think the lack of fact checking will come out, but also BAH

seems like they also had some sloppy documentation keeping..

[oldhippie]

132. That's funny .....

Right before I retired I was a Contracting Officer's Representative. As such, I had to verify and issue official ID cards to all the contractor employees at my facility. The salaried and hourly employees of the companies that had contracts at our facility. Every single one of those official US DoD issued ID cards that the employee was to wear at all times on the facility had a great big CONTRACTOR printed on it. And guess what they were called, by everyone? CONTRACTORS.

He was a contractor.

Intellectual capacity? Psssffftttt!

[think]

9. Indeed

How else would The Carlyle Group rake in $2 billion on Booz Allen if they paid those kind of outrageous salaries:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanvardi/2013/06/10/the-carlyle-group-has-made-2-billion-off-of-booz-allen/

[Catherina]

10. I don't doubt he made $200,000

Those guys get hefty per diem pay when they travel on temporary duty.

Temporary duty to Hong Kong for example, is at $497 a day.

[HipChick]

18. Not really...he wasn't travelling and had relocated..

He would not have got a per diem..

[Catherina]

23. You need to follow and keep up with the story more n/t

[HipChick]

25. He relocated..

Companies with federal contracts do this to avoid the temporary duty allowance..

[Catherina]

40. Knock yourself out lol. Ignore inconvenient facts like high cost areas housing allowances.

The desperation lol !

[HipChick]

49. I think you are missing the point...companies don't pay housing allowances

if they can get the contractor to move and relocate

[Catherina]

81. Job openings in his field at BAH require 50% travel

50% travel: http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=2bb21f0e348cb9ce&qd=sngKjQnSuuRPxEyZeWvZTMp74Y-55cJrozN1slg5wRe2dwmWiKU26VTHzRK9xJSkMoLIEk5xHXWpXlCt9ox_VbG0_dcpI56umu4WJjzcfhSDBfhE8IgzO_q_LQgY-_NZ&atk=17sptjsg41d5h0n0&utm_source=publisher&utm_medium=organic_listings&utm_campaign=affiliate

BAZ is also listed as one of the top places to work due to its work conditions and generous compensation package.

I just checked a salary site for BAZ and it shows an IT admin with a payrange of $52,000 - $116,000 pulling in

Bonus_______________ $0 - $29,087
Profit Disbursement_____$1,276 - $17,123
link:http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Booz,_Allen,_and_Hamilton/Salary

Snowden's salary was above that range so his numbers would be higher.

That's just the basic extras.

My point is you have NO idea what he was getting. NONE.

[pnwmom]

28. No one includes per diems in stating salary because

per diems compensate for on the road business expenses.

[HipChick]

32. I wonder what he reports on his taxes...you can only include expenses if you are at a location

for over a year..

he was only at BAH for 3 months..

[krawhitham]

41. I do not think he will be filing taxes this year

[leftynyc]

60. He wasn't sent to Hong Kong

He told them he needed a leave to receive treatment for epilepsy. More lies but I'm sure you're convinced he's a prince of truthfulness.

[Catherina]

121. I gave Hong Kong as an example because he had traveled there BEFORE

I also posted sample information about Booz Allen Hamilton bonuses and profit sharing compensation. That alone adds several 10s of thousands of dollars without even looking at the Employee Stock Purchase Plan BAH offers its employees.

More bullshit but I'm sure you're convinced our government is all hope, transparency and truthiness.

[sibelian]

11. OH MY GOOOOD!!!! Ballerinas AND his salary?

Holy SHIT!

You know, the more I hear about this poopyheaded guy the less I believe that there was any actual surveillance going on AT ALL? Cos, just like you say, his credibility is totally shot now.

It was the ballerina thing that did it for me.

I think he just made stuff up to make it LOOK like there was surveillance happening. I bet there wasn't any.

[djean111]

112. Bwah! My thoughts exactly.

And - no one has said that he was lying about the surveillance - not the president, not anybody.
So smearing him as a liar about his salary and reporting breathlessly and creepily about his girlfriend is just plain ridiculous.
Gotta say, the attempt to kill the messenger is really very transparent, so there's that.

[southernyankeebelle]

12. Well it could be for other side jobs he may have.

[HipChick]

22. He would have signed a contract that would preclude taking side jobs

It is common in the industry, particularly where govt and security are involved..

[southernyankeebelle]

43. I didn't know that. But why lie about his salary? I don't get it. There is something fishy period

I also don't trust this Greenwald guy for years.

[geek tragedy]

13. shoot. that. messenger! nt

[Cha]

127. Sounds like he's shooting himself.

[Luminous Animal]

15. That's his base salary. It doesn't mean he didn't get paid more.

[HipChick]

20. He's not on salary..

He gets contractor rates...for govt contracts, they are pretty much fixed

[Luminous Animal]

27. Booz Allen says that he was an employee of the firm. Not a contractor.

Booz Allen is the contractor. Snowden was their employee.

[HipChick]

44. He is still a contractor..

Not a govt. employee..

[Luminous Animal]

46. That makes absolutely no sense. I've worked for companies that contract for the U.S. govt.

But I got paid a salary by the company and was classified as an employee of the company.

[Recursion]

50. Right, but the government employees, referring to you, would say "that contractor over there"

Yes, it's inaccurate. It's also universal.

[HipChick]

53. Exactly...the govt employee's would never refer to you as one of them..

or give you regard as much...

[oldhippie]

133. And if you were an employee of a company with a govt contract ......

.... and you worked on a govt facility, you would have worn an issued official ID badge that had CONTRACTOR printed across your picture. At least they did at my facility. I issued them.

[cali]

48. no one is claiming he's a gov't employee, genius. cute little strawman you've shoddily constructed.

[cali]

31. bzzzt. more fact free spouting from you.

[pnwmom]

33. He's only worked there 3 months. A little too soon for a bonus

which wouldn't be included in a salary figure anyway. Neither would per diems, as someone suggested above, which compensate for business expenses when traveling.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. Any guy trying to date a dancer exaggerates the size of his salary -- amongst other things.

[UTUSN]

26. DUzy!!!!!!!!1 n/t

[FarCenter]

21. Probably included his girlfriend's income...

Or the $200K might be the rate that Booz was billing NSA for his services.

[HipChick]

29. Nobody in the contracting industry ever uses their billrate to the govt as a basis for salary..

[Whisp]

30. or the Booze boys are lying..

that has to be a consideration.

I still think Snowden is a fake tho. Along with his pal, Glenn.

[HipChick]

34. I don't care for BAH, but I don't think they are lying...it is easy to see what rates are being for

different govt contracts...

[Whisp]

37. a bit wierd that he would lie about something so inconsequential.

not that 80 grand is but why lie about that? what does it gain him?

unless he's just stupid, that's always a possibility that is growing legs.

[HipChick]

39. Good point..I have seen lie about contractor rates

in order to get a good rate on their next contract...but it is all easy to verify...

[DevonRex]

114. He told other REALLY stupid lies. Said he went to the Army as Special Forces. BUT

Special Forces requires a High School diploma. A GED won't do.

http://www.goarmy.com/special-forces/qualifications-and-benefits.html
DO YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO JOIN THE ARMY'S SPECIAL FORCES?
QUALIFICATIONS

To become part of the Army's Green Berets, you need to be mentally and physically tough, endure difficult training and face all challenges head-on. In addition to that, you must:

Be a male, age 20-30 (Special Forces positions are not open to women)
Be a U.S. citizen
Be a high school diploma graduate
Achieve a General Technical score of 107 or higher and a combat operation score of 98 on the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery.
Qualify for a secret security clearance.
Qualify and volunteer for Airborne training
Must take and pass the Army Physical Fitness Assessment (PFA)
Must successfully complete the Pre-Basic Task list
Must have 20/20 or corrected to 20/20 in both near and distant vision in both eyes
One year of college is preferred, but it is not a mandatory for enlistment

[Raine1967]

119. This has been my understanding as well. There are some here

that say this qualification may have changed.

the other part I found interesting is this part: Qualify for a secret security clearance. He didn;t get clearance from his less than a year in service -- that must have come from his stint as a Security Guard.

[Progressive dog]

35. Employee for less than 3 months at 60% of claimed salary

I'm anxiously awaiting his further disclosures from an undisclosed location in that bastion of civil liberties and open government to which he fled.

[krawhitham]

38. and he has only worked for Booz Allen for 3 months

http://www.boozallen.com/media-center/press-releases/48399320/statement-reports-leaked-information-060913

Booz Allen can confirm that Edward Snowden, 29, was an employee of our firm for less than 3 months, assigned to a team in Hawaii. Snowden, who had a salary at the rate of $122,000, was terminated June 10, 2013 for violations of the firm’s code of ethics and firm policy. News reports that this individual has claimed to have leaked classified information are shocking, and if accurate, this action represents a grave violation of the code of conduct and core values of our firm. We will work closely with our clients and authorities in their investigation of this matter.

http://www.boozallen.com/media-center/press-releases/48399320/statement-reports-leaked-information-060913

[atreides1]

54. Still on probation.

He was still in the probation period...but that has little to do with the access he was given.

[HipChick]

58. If his clearance was available in JPAS, they would have just transferred it over

that provided the basis for him being access..

[Whisp]

62. we don't know what access he had.

so far it's only him saying that, as far as I've read. Has Booze Boys said anything about that?

Him saying he had access to all that shit is just unbelievable to me. An employee on probation can get at all that? Doubters!

[HipChick]

65. I still think he is also telling tall ones about the access...

except the access to the Powerpoint slides..which he might have picked up on BAH internal sharepoint site

[Whisp]

97. I just heard one of the yappers on MSNBC repeating what Snowden said:

That he had access to all of this shit. That any employee in his kind of job has this access as well.

I think she is not doing her homework and just taking his word for it. It's Alex whatshername with the bubbly dark hair.

[HipChick]

99. I have only heard one MSM reporter that came close to being accurate to what his

job classification may have access to..

And that is because he seemed to do detailed research with the Beltway Bandits in DC - that is the term for any number of companies that do federal contracting in DC

[Puzzledtraveller]

42. I heard he lied about having high score on Ms.Pacman at a 7-Eleven

[Vinnie From Indy]

55. I heard he still has a library book out from '02

How in the world are we to evaluate the information he provided on its own merits after learning he is an arch-criminal in the eyes of librarians the world over.

Cheers!

[leveymg]

56. There are allowances, bonuses, and generous paid benefits. Doesn't mean he lied.

[HipChick]

63. $80,000 worth?

Almost half your base salary? BAH doesn't pay that much..

[Recursion]

67. No, but that would be $219 per diem, which is not implausible, particularly in HI

There's a reason people like contracting jobs.

[HipChick]

72. He was asked to and choose to relocate though...

I doubt he could still get the per diem...

[oldhippie]

134. What is TLA in Hawaii? ....

Temporary Lodging Allowance? I got, and my contractors got, TLA for 120 days when we relocated from CA to TX in '97. IIRC it was actual cost of temporary lodging plus up to $50 a day for meals.

[leveymg]

77. You haven't done any gov't consulting, have you?

[HipChick]

78. I'd actually be interested to see what your federal govt consulting has been like..

[leveymg]

92. None of your business, but enough to know what per diems are.

[zeeland]

125. Company car, housing allowance and many other perks

are common in corporate America and considered income. This is a silly OP
all things considered.

[arthritisR_US]

73. $78,000 paid out then in "allowances, bonuses

and generous paid benefits"... that is some generous alrighty, given he worked there only 3 months...

[HipChick]

82. As generous as pinocchio's nose..

[arthritisR_US]

86. That's how it's looking to me..

[Marrah_G]

141. My son works for a gov contrator

On top of his regular pay, his hotel (he is rarely home) and rental cars are paid for. His gas and food are all reimbursed. When he needs to fly home for drill they take care of that too.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. Shocking! People lie about what they make! Horrifying! Traitors and enemies of the state!

[DesMoinesDem]

66. Do you have his tax returns?

No, you don't, so you know absolutely nothing. Why did you start a thread on something you don't know anything about? Oh, that's right. You're trying to smear the messenger in order to distract from the message. Do you people actually think everybody doesn't know exactly what you are doing? Snowden and his life story are irrelevant. It is the documents he leaked, which no one in power is refuting, that are the issue.

[HipChick]

74. How is it smearing if the protagonist is lying about himself?

He is the one shooting himself in the foot..this and many parts of his story falling apart...

[DesMoinesDem]

79. The story isn't about him

and you have no idea if he is lying about his salary because you don't have his tax returns. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH HE MADE. PERIOD. To claim you do is a lie.

[HipChick]

83. I know what the the rates are on BAH govt contract

That's pretty easy to find..and his claim doesn't match

[DesMoinesDem]

88. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT HE MADE. PERIOD.

That is a fact. Unless you get his tax return, you cannot know what he made.

Not to mention IT IS IRRELEVANT!

[cali]

94. so post it. post exactly what he made.

you do realize that most of us think you're full of.... it. and you just confirm that with post after post. good job, dear.

[HipChick]

98. Actually his job classification on the BAH contracts

and rates are still posted..its easy to verify

I don't really care what you think, what is laughable are the armchair experts here...and the apologist's mentality

[cali]

101. apologist for what?

and the answer to my request? you have nothing. no surprise. As for being an armchair critic and an apologist, you have that covered 6 ways from Sunday. No need for anyone else to step in when you're doing such a stellar job!

[Raine1967]

120. Snowden himself said he earned about $200K

BAH says it is far less. I can't believe people are asking YOU for proof of what is out there for all to see.

Either he's not disclosing income from another source or he is LYING.

It's pretty clear cut to me, HipChick. I can't believe people are simply ignoring this information.

If this dude wants transparency maybe he should come forward and correct himself. Can't believe you are going thru this.

[HipChick]

122. @Raine1967 ..I gave up...People want to ignore what they want to...

There are a lot of things that don't add up.

[Raine1967]

123. It's frustrating as all hell.

Seriously. if one is actually willing to question the story around here -- Well, I'll just leave it as this: you get called some really awful names and accused of not towing the line that Snowden is a hero, or his story should not be questioned -- It's really oogy, HC.

I've seen a lot of really fine members of DU accused of supporting fascism. That kinda makes DU suck and it also prevents honest discussion.

[bushisanidiot]

68. So he's a liar and a quitter. Sounds like Sarah Palin.

I'm sure he could run in the firt presidential primary as a republican once he is of age and he'll get votes
for being the one who "got" Big Bad Obama.

[morningfog]

69. Why does that matter with respect to the nature of NSA data mining?

[HipChick]

75. Do you really think this is limited to one agency data mining?

the fodder the public has fallen for is amazing

[morningfog]

80. Not at all. I think we are just beginning to scratch the surface.

[think4yourself]

87. Exactly

And maybe he DID make 200k before taxes. I don't have the energy to figure out his local school board taxes and homeowners association fees.
Right now I'm still hoping we can discuss the real issue here. The 4th Amendment is on life-support or worse and some people on here need to wake the fuck up.

[sibelian]

84. Yeah, but the goat-touching's worse.

I hear he strokes their beards.

[tinrobot]

85. Classic - make the whistleblower the issue.

I honestly don't care how much he makes or claims to make.

I care about the information he has leaked. Let's talk about that...

[DesMoinesDem]

89. The leaked info isn't the issue. He didn't chitchat with his neighbors.

THAT is the issue. Oh, and his salary. And maybe what politicians he gave money to. Anything other than the leaked information. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

[tinrobot]

91. The man behind the curtain is the NSA

Say hello while the NSA reads this from behind their curtain of secrecy.

I'm glad Snowden pulled the curtain back.

That is all.

[sigmasix]

104. funny- you are claiming to KNOW he's a hero

As he sits in the luxury of China's human rights abuse shadows and threatens to reveal secret information to the Chinese about the whereabouts of America's intelligence and military personell.
Why do baggers and other Obama derangement Syndrome tin hat wearers believe Snowden is thier hero? Is it because teabaggers and other Obama derangement syndrome enjoyers WANT our own people murdered by chinese and other enemies of Americans?
Isnt that why they've been cheering for this dangerous racist traitor?

Supporting a racist confedarate apologist for president does say a lot about Snowden's particular case of Obama Derangement Syndrome and the fuel for his hatred for his fellow Americans.
Your hero took it upon himself to decide which brave Americans will live and which will die within our military and intelligence community- Obviously the entire point of going to the chinese is to make an unspoken threat to give our enemies control over the safety of our own agents.
Making a traitor to your country your personal hero deserves attention and ridicule.
The ODS (Obama derangement syndrome) movement has already been found wanting in every measure and receives the respect and legitimacy it deserves from those that live in the real world.- Same Teabaggers, different day.

[HipChick]

109. +10000..

[tinrobot]

138. Seems like you're prone to exaggeration...

I never called him a hero. I called him a whistle-blower and I said I was happy he pulled back the curtain on the NSA

I also think the OP is doing a classic attack on the messenger by calling him an exaggerator. Kind of like how you exaggerated just now.

[JPZenger]

93. Having a security clearance helps make a person valuable

Many employers do not want to go through the effort of getting security clearances for new employees. That is why they like to hire ex-military or current federal workers who already have the clearances.

[HipChick]

96. Getting security clearance can cost the company anywhere from $25K upwards

It makes sense to hire already cleared folks..

[hobbit709]

95. So?

[Cali_Democrat]

100. He comes across as an exaggerator

It certainly hurts his credibility. He even said he could listen to the President's phone calls and read his emails if he wanted to. That also seems highly unlikely.

It will certainly have people thinking that this surveillance program isn't as bad as he claims.

[HipChick]

106. Exactly...and that is what folks are missing the point with all his

exaggerations here...too busy apologizing for him..

[ljm2002]

105. Oddly enough, though...

...we have no evidence belying his revelations about the scope of NSA spying. In fact, judging by the reactions of government officials including President Obama, it seems the revelations are simply true.

Some here argue that they are not "revelations", that we've known about this all along. Well, yes and no. Lots of people have told us about the level of surveillance being done, but mostly it was anecdotal. We have concrete information now.

Now one may quibble about what the NSA is doing. Is it spying on US citizens if you are merely combing metadata records to see patterns, and are only targeting those that are connected with terrorists in some way? If your answer to this question is no, it's not spying on US citizens, then here's the next question: do you trust your government -- under this or any following administration -- to actually limit their surveillance to terrorists?

The fact is, the NSA is combing our phone records. They are not listening to our calls directly (**), but they do have access to any call they decide to investigate further. So if they seed their search with a known terrorist's phone number, then they may be able to flag any calls to or from that number, and get a FISA court to approve getting access to the actual phone calls. But if someone at the NSA decides to use a broad definition of the term "terrorist", that can be a very wide net. OWS was labeled terrorist by some; so are some peaceful antiwar groups, and environmental groups, etc., etc.

I don't give a rat's ass how much $$ Mr. Snowden made. I have no need to put him on a pedestal either. Like most of us he is a complex human being and we will never know all of his motives for doing what he did. Be that as it may, I am glad to have some light shed on this topic in a way that engages the press, and therefore the public, in a way we have not seen previously. Oh, and it should go without saying, I know it started under Bush and I agree it is reprehensible that he got a free ride on this stuff while Obama does not. But all that means is that Bush should not have got a free ride -- it does not mean that Bush got a free ride, therefore Obama should get a free ride.

(**) after all, how many people whould you have to hire to do that? hey wait a minute... we have a serious unemployment problem in this country... maybe the NSA should promote this as a jobs program...

[BlueCheese]

108. I don't care if he likes to kick puppies in his spare time.

The facts of what he revealed are what's important. Everything else is a distraction-- likely intentional, to draw public opinion away from the fact of a vast surveillance apparatus.

[onecent]

110. Who can possibly GIVE A SHIT how much he made??????

I think it's a fucking crime that our freedom of speech is violated. Let the man speak...without
fear of retaliation...Our government is so corrupt it is beyond fixing...

[Zorra]

111. Honestly, this person feels off to me, and I have been keeping out of discussions

because of this.

Because he feels so wrong, I have a nagging suspicion that there may be some type of set up going on that has been orchestrated by the "intelligence* community, and that there is some ulterior motive for this whole scenario, one that possibly has nothing to do with Obama, or that Obama is even possibly complicit in.

Maybe even a set up leading to an excuse to pass legislation to further the protection of the 1% from whistleblowers

Or maybe they are using Snowden as a willing stooge complicit in discrediting future whistleblowers.

We are dealing with spooks here, working in a semi-privatized public realm. That in itself is a scenario that is totally off, wrong, fucked up, dangerous in every possible way.

I dunno what it is. It's just a really bad feeling about Snowden and this whole thing.

I really hope that soon we can all come together in solidarity, and throw off the yoke of privatized government forever.

[HipChick]

113. As evidenced on in this thread, folks are already falling for this - hook,line and sinker..

[DevonRex]

130. The lies have to be signals.

They're too obvious, too easily found out.

About his past: He couldn't have been training for special forces with just a GED. They require a high school diploma.

He went from security guard at an NSA site to CIA information tech security - requires a Master's but preferably a PhD.

Now he's lying about his salary. The company knows exactly what they pay him, and they get audited by DCAA on all contracts. It has to match. Every penny is accounted for.

He's lying about his capabilities and those of "any analyst" as he said. It would require a large conspiracy to do what he claimed to be able to do. And simply rewriting code will not do it.

These lies wouldn't even get him in as a double agent anywhere.

So, I am baffled. One possibility is that the obvious lies are signals. They are just TOO obvious, unless he's a compulsive liar.

[MattSh]

116. Whoop-de-doo

We have constitutional issues at stake here and we're arguing about how much he did or didn't get paid? Really?

[HipChick]

118. These issues are 7yrs old.. Where was your outrage then?

[tinrobot]

140. There was outrage... until Obama got elected

In 2005, as a Senator, he opposed this sort of activity and voted no on this provision to the Patriot Act. In the 2008 campaign, he promised it would stop.

Apparently, he didn't keep that promise, so.... outrage.

[Initech]

117. He's lying about his salary, and I think he's lying about his girlfriend.

[DevonRex]

124. So do I. Either that or he tried to implicate her himself.

I think he probably lied to her since he couldn't stop himself from lying about silly things that could easily be checked. Thing is, she loves him so she wouldn't check.

[MjolnirTime]

126. That's not the only lie he's told.

then Greenwald took his lies and built on them with his own fabrications..

[HipChick]

128. It is all very strange..lying about things

that can be easily verified

[limpyhobbler]

129. nobody cares. nt

[shawn703]

135. He probably also lied about his "authorities"

If the most damning thing he could find with all that access is a PowerPoint presentation. Why not really blow the lid off with a small sample of the data that's supposedly being collected?

[LondonReign2]

136. You're not very good at this smear thing, are you?

[tinrobot]

137. It is pretty blatant, isn't it?

[Enrique]

139. ok i'm confused

is Snowden lying or is he rehashing things everyone knew already?

[HipChick]

143. Handing over information now makes him a traitor