So Snowden shows up in Hong Kong just when Obama is meeting with the Chinese

[pnwmom]

to discuss Chinese hacking.

And Snowden just happens to choose this moment to reveal U.S. hacking of China.

And the timing of this is all just a huge coincidence -- it certainly wasn't planned when he took that little vacation to Hong Kong months ago. Right.



Are any members of the fan club starting to see another side to this guy? Or is he still a hero?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/snowden-wants-people-of-hong-kong-to-decide-my-fate/2013/06/12/a69e94ee-d370-11e2-a73e-826d299ff459_story.html


HONG KONG — Edward Snowden, the self-confessed leaker of secret surveillance documents, claimed Wednesday that the United States has mounted massive hacking operations against hundreds of Chinese targets since 2009.

The former contractor, whose work at the National Security Agency gave him access to highly classified U.S. intelligence, made the assertions in an interview with the South China Morning Post. The newspaper said he showed it “unverified documents” describing an extensive U.S. campaign to obtain information from computers in Hong Kong and mainland China.

[flamingdem]

1. Does this guy even know what he's saying?

newsflash: Hong Kong = China

quote:
He added, “I have had many opportunities to flee HK, but I would rather stay and fight the United States government in the courts, because I have faith in Hong Kong’s rule of law.”

[bunnies]

2. Im beginning to think he took that job...

that he held for all of three months, just to find something (anything) to leak. Too many "coincidences" here. WAY too many.

[Whisp]

24. yep. and he got some help, and not Greenwald's, for the access.

Greenwald was the 'pr' guy for this.

[bunnies]

30. Totally.

I hope we find out who, exactly, orchestrated this whole thing. Theres got to be a money trail somewhere.

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. Of course he did....he went to work there AFTER he talked to Greenwald in January

it was a set up and Greenwald will be very lucky not to find himself at the wrong end of a treason investigation.

[bunnies]

76. thanks. I didnt know that little tidbit.

The plot thickens. Maybe Glen ought to join his buddy over in Hong Kong. Someones head is definitely going to roll.

[Whisp]

116. ty. That was the bit I couldn't recall. How the timing worked so oddly. Plus

who the hell got him into that job, it sure wasn't Glenn himself it had to be someone high up in influence Glenn knew.

[VanillaRhapsody]

117. Nah the guy had enough work history to get the job...

He just told Glenn what he was going to be able to do....and then did it.

[Whisp]

118. I say that because his fast tracking looks suspicious.

I just can't see Greenwald in charge of this with Edward. There have to be others involved.
time will tell.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Are we still at war with EastAsia?

[pnwmom]

4. East Asia isn't a precise term.

But China is no ally.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

5. Are we still at war with Germany..we spy on them too? How about the American people?

[MNBrewer]

54. Yes, Oceania has always been at war with EastAsia

[Hekate]

64. Newsflash: China is not our friend and never will be.

The USSR broke up, and Russia became a capitalist paradise instead of a workers' paradise, without ever changing the essential nature of either their governing practices or their character.

We managed to survive a Cold War with the USSR without actually firing nukes at each other, and believe me, I would rather have chilly but realistic relations with China as a trading partner. We would be fools to have a blind-to-reality hearts-and-flowers relationship (with lead on children's toys and melamine in pet food) that ignores their human rights violations and other bad practices, such as trying to plant malware in our digital infrastructure.

With China I really do believe it is a case of keeping your friends close but your enemies closer. Disrupting talks between our president and their leader was not a good thing.

Oh, and Hong Kong belongs to China (I'm sure you know that, but others here seem not to).

[arely staircase]

6. he works for the chinese

the only question now is, for how long.

[pnwmom]

9. That's what I'm wondering. n/t

[Marr]

35. Oh, brother. Do you have some proof, or is that just more tinfoil hat stuff?

The bar for character assassination on whistle blowers seems to be incredibly low.

[arely staircase]

39. whistleblower, lol

that horse is out of the barn.

[arely staircase]

49. he is begging them to let him stay there and he is giving them info on our operations against them

is that enough.

[Marr]

58. So, tinfoil then-- thanks. /nt

[SummerSnow]

77. I think he works for the Chinese as well...

he helps them spy on us. But people would rather be happy that he does this and use it to make Obama look bad.

[LondonReign2]

7. Is Thomas Drake there too?

[HappyMe]

8. He clearly works for the Chinese.

I am wondering how long he has done so.

I am questioning the validity of his surveillance documents here.

[Marr]

38. I heard he didn't always chat with neighbors, too-- and sometimes--

sometimes he didn't pick up after his dog when he took it on walks.

Pass it on.

[HappyMe]

42. .....

[apples and oranges]

79. Could be, but why did he come forward after getting away with it?

Wouldn't he continue working to get as much intel as possible?

[HappyMe]

90. Money and timing.

The President is scheduled to be in China. He's a 'free agent' so to speak. A real agent would have stfu and kept working, an Ayn Rand/Paulbot type will sell out. Plus, he ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Wait Wut]

10. I hate conspiracy theories...

...except when they start to make sense. Damn.

I can't wait to see what happens in the next episode.

[KoKo]

11. I think you meant while Obama was at "Sunnylands" not in Hong Kong, though. n/t

[pnwmom]

12. Technically, that's true.

They're still pretending that Hong Kong is in charge of its own destiny.

[Marr]

45. You realize that Sunnylands is in the United States, right? /nt

[pnwmom]

73. No, I assumed it was a joke name for somewhere in China.

Where Obama just got back from.






The common ground they found, however, was not quite what the White House expected as talks on cyber-espionage were overshadowed by revelations of Washington's own cyberwarfare strategy.

Both leaders discussed the issue for several hours, according to aides, but the best that the US was able to boast afterwards was that Beijing was no longer unaware of the depth of feeling on the subject.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/us-china-summit-barack-obama-xi-jinping

[KoKo]

94. NPR..Chinese Premier and Entourage Skip "Sunnyland Guest Rooms" for fear of US Spying

NPR..Chinese Premier and Entourage Skip "Sunnyland Guest Rooms" for fear of US Spying

Xi and his entourage are not sleeping in the guest rooms, though. The Chinese delegation decided to stay at a hotel nearby out of fear that the U.S. might be spying on them — a decision they made before this week's disclosures about American surveillance.

NSA Scandal Looms Over Obama-Xi Talks

by
June 08, 2013 5:25 AM

President Obama always intended to talk about spying this weekend. But not like this.
He's at a sprawling estate in the Southern California desert this weekend, getting to know China's new leader, but domestic controversies have followed him there.
----------
Some members of Obama's own party are now attacking him for overreaching, and civil liberties groups are comparing him unfavorably to President George W. Bush. So Obama was feeling the heat before he took off for to Palm Springs.

Then he arrived in the desert, where the temperature hovered around 110 degrees.

"This is a wonderful place, a place of sunshine," said China's new president, Xi Jinping, through a translator.

----------------
President Obama always intended to talk about spying this weekend. But not like this. He's at a sprawling estate in the Southern California desert this weekend, getting to know China's new leader, but domestic controversies have followed him there.

Xi and his entourage are not sleeping in the guest rooms, though. The Chinese delegation decided to stay at a hotel nearby out of fear that the U.S. might be spying on them — a decision they made before this week's disclosures about American surveillance.

http://www.npr.org/2013/06/08/189724905/nsa-scandal-looms-over-obama-xi-talks

[malaise]

13. Velly interesting indeed!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023002708

[Floyd_Gondolli]

14. Won't stop the cultists here

Who worship this man...who they first learned existed 72 hours ago.

I suspect he could get caught with a pack of Cub Scouts and it would sway few here who worship him. They hate this president (and always have) and anyone and everything used to undermine him is something to be embraced.

[Whisp]

27. +++

[flamingdem]

31. ++++

[MNBrewer]

47. Won't stop the cultists here who worship this man

At first I thought you were talking about Obama....

[Floyd_Gondolli]

50. I'm quite sure you did

[MNBrewer]

57. good cultists are always quite sure

[Floyd_Gondolli]

59. I wouldn't know

But you seem like someone who is well acquainted with that concept. Have you ordered your Snowden Fathead yet?

[MNBrewer]

66. You seem to know quite well, actually

[Floyd_Gondolli]

67. You think?

Tell me more...

[MNBrewer]

70. No, you tell ME more

[Floyd_Gondolli]

80. Okay

I enjoy long walks on the beach.

I prefer chicken over beef and pork.

My favorite flower is a red tulip.

I love Labradors.

My favorite state is Colorado, even though I don't live there.

My favorite president is FDR.

I like all kinds of music from classical to acid rock.

I detest poetry.

I enjoy reading, but prefer non-fiction over fiction.

I once climbed a mountain.

I've been scuba diving 3 times, and am not sure if I like it.

I believe in marriage equality.

My favorite restaurants are local joints, not chains.

I like to swim.

I live in a house, but I hate mowing the lawn.

My least favorite color is pink, my favorite color is green or blue (any kind of blue).

I'm not one to fall in love with people I've just met.

I tend to acquire and process facts before lighting my hair on fire.

[Autumn]

81. My first thought

[SammyWinstonJack]

112. heh

[Bobbie Jo]

71. They're more like

Opportunists, IMO....

It's interesting to watch their giddiness when they see an opportunity to further their virtual impeachment campaign.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

108. Indeed

If I didn't know better I'd say they're PaulBots.

Oh wait, most of them are...

[SammyWinstonJack]

114. Neither a Paulbot nor an Obamabot, be.

[LondonReign2]

85. Its not.about.Snowden

Much as you'd like it to be.

Tell me, is Thomas Drake also a Chinese agent?

[Tarheel_Dem]

124. +++++

[Puzzledtraveller]

15. Chinese Hacking

Isn't that a mild duck dish? I think I saw it on Bizarre Foods once.

[Hekate]

91. Comic relief, thanks

Serious subject, though

[Aerows]

96. Pretty sure it involves

oranges and gallbladders. You can have mine if you want it.

[NightWatcher]

16. He's a Paulbot and he thinks he's striking a blow against the Empire (USA)

This little boy is in WAY over his head

[Floyd_Gondolli]

17. The Paul connection is important

It can also be used as a litmus test for people in their everyday lives. Whenever I meet someone and they claim to support Ron Paul it becomes obvious this is someone I don't really want to bother with getting to know. It's been my experience they are all morons who think they're super smart.

[pnwmom]

19. Yup. Ordinary Republicans are generally much less obnoxious

than tea party-ers and Paulbots.

[NightWatcher]

20. Exactly! A Paul bumpersticker says "I don't know shit about politics"

[BrotherIvan]

18. Pure BOrG Crap™

Just a question, so you've decided that Snowden should be tried and put to death as a traitor "working for the Chinese" for revealing what you all have said "we already knew" "isn't illegal" and "no big deal"? Or is what you are really saying is that Snowden should be labelled a Chinese spy and executed because he embarrassed President Obama?

[pnwmom]

21. No, I don't believe in the death penalty.

But he did a lot more than release information about what we've been doing with regard to the Patriot's Act. His interview with the Chinese newspaper crossed an important line. Technically, he's not a traitor because we're not in a military war with China. But he's no hero.

[bunnies]

26. WTH does BOrG Crap mean?

third or fourth time Ive seen this lately.

[BrotherIvan]

37. The Borg from Star Trek

It has a strange resemblance to the BOG Barack Obama Group (ies) who pile on every thread in order to defend the President and administration from any criticism whatsoever, real or perceived.

[graham4anything]

69. This is really insulting on a democratic site that supports the President and the party.

there are 150 different groups on this board if one looks.
And there are plenty of separate groups of other Democratic folks, like Hillary, John Kerry, Al Gore, and shortly there will be one
for Cory Booker after he wins the senate seat, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Southern Democrats, etc.

look to the left side of the board, under topics and one sees this
DemocratsAl Gore
Barack Obama
Democracy for America
Democrats
Dennis Kucinich
Elizabeth Warren
Hillary Clinton
Joe Biden
John Kerry
Precinct-level Politics
Southern Democrats and Progressives


So it is quite unsavory to be called names.

Especially when it is now 100% evident this whole thing was yet another smear, timed to interfere with the meetings with China
and to interfere with the two special elections coming up (Booker and Markey), with republicans trying to steal two seats.

imho

the G stands for GROUP
and it is after ALL the candidates.
so
Barack=B
Obama=O
Group=G

just like the Hillary=H
Clinton=C
Group=G

and the
Elizabeth=E
Warren=W
Group=G

At the end of the day, every single person here is working for the same thing= the election of democratic candidates
and there are two current races
The Markey race
The Booker race
that could decide the fate of the USA senate

[Whisp]

89. At the end of the day, every single person here is working for the same thing

No, sorry but you are wrong on that point, graham, otherwise right on on the rest.

[Hekate]

97. I no longer believe that, Whisp, sorry to say

There's been too much free-floating anger here for too long for me to believe we all want the same thing.

[Whisp]

100. I didn't make myself clear then, Hekate.

I was repeating graham's line in my subject line, and disagreeing with him.

in the exact way you did just now.

so we definitely are on the same page with that subject, fer dang sure.

[Hekate]

101. Thanks

What a day.

[Summer Hathaway]

104. It is a term used

by anti-Obama posters when they have no substantive response in a discussion thread. This is usually a result of their not being particularly smart, or politically astute.

The term is often posted accompanied by a photoshopped graphic, because a lot of anti-Obama folks (and RW trolls posing as anti-Obama Democrats) prefer to hone their cartoon skills rather than inform themselves about politics, current events, how the government actually works, etc.

[bunnies]

125. Well...

at least now I know what posts not to bother responding too. Geez. Since when was is ok to insult the supporters of a Democratic President on Democratic Underground?

[Tarheel_Dem]

126. Exceedingly accurate assessment! You Better Believe It!

[Skidmore]

32. Snowden revealed today to a Chinese newspaper that

he has given classified documents to the Chinese. There is a DU thread on it andvGoogle still works. This is an act of treason regardless of whatever he thought he was accomplishing. Forvthat act alone he should be dealt with under the law. If he winds up in China permanently, he can be considered a defector.

[BrotherIvan]

40. And the NSA is sharing the data they gather with other countries so they can spy too

But I guess it's ok when the powerful do it. Trust them to keep us safe!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2985752

HT: Prosense!

[MADem]

106. This might be important--that is NOT just a "Chinese Newspaper."

The South China Morning Post is owned by a pro-Beijing Malaysian tycoon named Kuok, who bought controlling interest....

And this guy.



He has a Chinese wife--people forget that he's got roots in that region of the world.

[Tarheel_Dem]

128. Oh shit! This just gets worse.

[emulatorloo]

130. It just gets more and more interesting, doesn't it?

[blm]

136. People forget that the Bush family is deeply rooted in China going back to the early 70s.

.

[arely staircase]

43. working for the chinese is probably not accurate

he is fucking owned by the chinese.

he needs them to allow him to stay there and he is feeding them info on our operations there.

they own his ass.

[arely staircase]

52. yes.

sorry your hero is a chineses spy

that must be embarrassing

[Marr]

51. Yeah, it's kind of strange, isn't it?

Traitor! You've revealed... old news! Move along! But also-- terrible! TRAITOR!

It's basically whatever is most convenient at given moment.

[Hekate]

87. What a clever new acronym you felt compelled to invent

I fail to see where pwnmom, longtime DU poster, has recommended any of the things you list in your post, to wit:
* Snowden should be tried and put to death as a traitor "working for the Chinese"
* what you all have said "we already knew"
* "isn't illegal" and "no big deal"
* Snowden should be labelled a Chinese spy and executed because he embarrassed President Obama

You read minds, Brother Ivan?, because I did not see it in the OP. You have a problem with the give and take of argument on a Democratic website?

But I will keep in mind your clever new acronym.

[Whisp]

22. he sure as fuck didn't plan this alone, neither only with Greenwald.

there are much heavier players to this, it's stinks like the regular stink of shit like this.

There is an orchestra to this and each player has their own music sheet. This is no small time doofus and his wild eyed Rander's solo mission.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

23. China has known since 2006 that we spy on them, so it's really too late to say anything about it now

Or so I've read in GD many, many times over the last 4 or 5 days.

[pnwmom]

25. It's a PR coup to have this happen now, and it will undermine Obama

in any negotiations.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

28. The PR is going to be horribly ugly for the President, in China, in Europe, & maybe at home.

I think that would have been the case no matter when the spy program was revealed, but yes, I can see where it might be extra dicey for Obama at this point. But he's going to be jeered at a lot of international stops now, so he may as well get acclimated to what he's wrought.

[flamingdem]

33. This is the worst aspect of this and can't be a

coincidence

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. PO met with the Chinese guy in PALM SPRlNGS.

[flamingdem]

34. what's the connection

??

[ucrdem]

41. Good question.

But Xi got the upper hand in the cyber negotiations. Remember EarlG's cartoon last weekend?



That's about how it went down. So real damage was done to US interests, not just to BO's personal reputation.

[BrotherIvan]

48. Do you even understand the captions in the photo?

[ucrdem]

53. The Obama caption was EarlG's little joke. nt

[flamingdem]

55. ha! Perfect cartoon

Earl knows all

[ucrdem]

60. It was pretty bad.

According NPR Xi wouldn't even stay in the conference center guest room and booked a room at a local hotel for fear of being bugged.

Xi and his entourage are not sleeping in the guest rooms, though. The Chinese delegation decided to stay at a hotel nearby out of fear that the U.S. might be spying on them. . .

http://www.npr.org/2013/06/08/189724905/nsa-scandal-looms-over-obama-xi-talks

Fiasco is the word that comes to mind. . .

[flamingdem]

61. jeez, this twerp managed to cause this disaster

It must be more than Libertarians behind this -- will we ever know

[ucrdem]

65. Oh I think we know who's behind this.

The CATO Institute, the Carlyle Group, the Guardian and their latest choir boy . . . the usual suspects.

[flamingdem]

74. All about undermining Obama?

What is the theory? What does the Carlyle Group get out of this -

I can't see the Guardian being quite that evil..

Glen Greenwald yes, total opportunist and hater

[ucrdem]

83. It's mainly about politics sure.

Part of it is to whack Obama, part of it is to demoralize Dem voters and help the Kochs and Carlyles pick up a few more seats in 2014. That's what it's been about since January. But I imagine there's also some profit in it for the Kochs from cutting side deals with Xi or some damn thing. There usually is.

[flamingdem]

88. Carlyle Group owns Booz Allen

I remember focusing on them years ago as a source of evil like Halliburton

How would this benefit them? They want business, wouldn't this hurt their Chinese aspirations?

forbes june 10

There was a time when Carlyle’s ties to the government made the private equity giant a target of conspiracy theories, but the firm has worked hard and successfully to improve its image and limit its connections to the government. In recent years Carlyle has escaped much of the public criticism that has dogged other big players in its industry, like Bain Capital. While other private equity firms have increased their hiring of ex-government officials, Carlyle has moved away from the practice. KKR, for example, recently hired former CIA chief David Petraeus. But Carlyle still does deals in the government space and Booz Allen has been one of its most successful such investments in recent years.

[ucrdem]

92. I think they're largely in the business of war.

And Obama is bad for business so they're focusing on 2016 is my guess.

[Marr]

84. Ah, yes-- a brilliant scheme. They© are truly diabolical...

See how they conspired to make the White House look bad by exposing this program that is totally reasonable and which everyone already knew about!?

DAMN YOU, Snowden! I hope you're executed for your treasonous leaking of this program that everyone already knew about and is really no big deal!

[flamingdem]

93. Admit it, he's attempting to undermine the administration

and when now he's owned by China.

[Marr]

134. I don't care what he's trying to do.

This isn't about Snowden. It's about the information he released.

[Marr]

63. ARE YOU WORKING FOR THE CHINESE?!

Look-- we welcome discussion on the location of Rancho Mirage. Opinions differ.

[cherokeeprogressive]

98. LOL Sorry.

From up here they all seem to blend together.

Hey at least I didn't say El Centro.

[pnwmom]

109. Thank you, you're right. But the point is the same.

I don't think it's a coincidence that he made public information about US hacking NOW, just as Obama is negotiating with the Chinese.

Do you?

[ucrdem]

113. I called it on Monday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2988939

[pnwmom]

115. Yes, you did! n/t

[ucrdem]

123. And another made-for-TV scandal takes a dive.

Next up: Justin Beiber!

[ucrdem]

36. Bingo. It worked, too: big setback in Obama's negotiations with Xi

last weekend:

US-China summit ends with accord on all but cyber-espionage
The Guardian, Sunday 9 June 2013 04.48 EDT

Obama's meeting with Xi overshadowed by revelations of NSA's snooping – but deals are made on N Korea and HFCs emissions

The Chinese contrition over cyber-attacks that Washington had hoped for failed to materialise, but historic talks between presidents Obama and Xi Jinping lived up to their billing in other regards with agreement on issues ranging from climate change to North Korea.

Meeting in the baking heat of a Palm Springs country estate, the two leaders broke with protocol for two days of informal talks aimed at creating a new spirit of co-operation between the world's two economic superpowers.

The common ground they found, however, was not quite what the White House expected as talks on cyber-espionage were overshadowed by revelations of Washington's own cyberwarfare strategy.

Both leaders discussed the issue for several hours, according to aides, but the best that the US was able to boast afterwards was that Beijing was no longer unaware of the depth of feeling on the subject.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/us-china-summit-barack-obama-xi-jinping

With helpful assist from those freedumb-lovin' stand-with-Rand heroes at the CATO Institute:

And then there was that mass shooting in Santa Monica a few miles from where Obama was holding a DNC fundraiser on Friday. Coincidence I'm sure . . .

[Hekate]

44. Coinkydinks like this are why I waited for more information before crucifying Prez. Obama...

... for programs that started before he was president, or in some cases, even born.

I'm still waiting for more information, further developments to unfold, and unfold they do.

[KittyWampus]

102. And yet for waiting to learn facts, we are labeled NSA enablers & Obama cultists.

[Hekate]

105. Oh yeah, I just bow down and worship the NSA every midnight...

...and my Obama Cult members meet at the dark of the moon. We sacrifice goats.

[RainDog]

62. here's my baseless conspiracy theory

Snowden is a plant from liberals to make the Republican Congress address the overreach of the Patriot Act. He makes a little contribution to Ron Paul, talks to a libertarian activist/writer...

...and Republicans hate Obama so much they want to go after him in any way they can - and end up having to address this issue - and, more to the point, how they have been the ones responsible for putting this policy in place and keeping it in place since they have control of Congress.

Rather than address such issues, or any issues, they have insisted on spending their time trying to create one fake outrage after another. So now reporters can and should ask - why isn't Congress on this, if they care so much about the issue?

Democrats know they have a strong civil liberties base, and they can pull in the libertarian faction to their side on this issue. They probably didn't count on so many Obama supporters waging all-out war on other liberals, but we'll all have to come together at election time since the other party offers even less hope for a better govt.

But, of course, the neoliberal Democrats can't address all this Patriot Act stuff - they have their friends in high places in other places doing so much intel work for the U.S., you know - and some of them probably don't want to - so the left end of the Democrats come out swinging.

If Democrats had tried to address this head on, they would've been accused of coddling terrorists and making America less safe.

None of the information was new. No national security issue was actually threatened. Of course, there will be other things to come, but the actual release was pretty harmless. We'll see what else comes about.

And Obama goes to China and the Chinese leaders hear about the U.S. watching China steal intellectual property here. Just a little nudge...like... we can hack you if you don't stop stealing.

Now that's three-dimensional chess.

Not that I think any of what I said is true, but it's just as true as any of the other baseless accusations and rumors that have been put out here.

But, hey, Democrats - go with it and pretend that's what you were doing all along.

[Laelth]

103. That would not surprise me at all.

In fact, the whole thing may be Obama's doing, and, if it works, he may go down as one of our greatest Presidents of all time.

You're certainly not the first DU poster to have offered a similar theory. Another is here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3000363

-Laelth

[RainDog]

107. LOL

well, I'm a sucker for happy endings when they're not all sappy and maudlin.

the first time I heard about the meeting between Obama and the Chinese leader and that Obama was talking about intellectual property theft via computers in China... which was immediately after hearing about Snowden, I wondered if this could be a situation used to the advantage of the U.S.

...but I don't think there's anything to it, other than my wishful thinking.

[Laelth]

110. Only time will tell, I suppose. n/t

-Laelth

[MNBrewer]

68. Obama is in Hong Kong?

[pnwmom]

75. Hong Kong is part of China, and Obama is in the midst of negotiating

with them about their hacking.

[MNBrewer]

82. Maybe Obama should have come clean then, when he had the chance

[KoKo]

99. No...that was last weekend at Annenberg Estate in Palm Springs, CA..

It's called "Sunnyland" and it's been on loan to Presidents who want to get out of DC in a more relaxed way to meet with Heads of State.

The Annenbergs have now moved out and it's open to visitors when it isn't in use by Government.

[ucrdem]

111. Pics here:

Obama-Xi Palm Springs summit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014502822

[SummerSnow]

72. Saw this interesting quote.... dont know who penned it

“Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous”

[bunnies]

86. There are no coincidences in politics - FDR

[blm]

78. This is Standard BFEE ops, imo. When Clinton was getting close w/China someone 'bombed'

a Chinese embassy in Europe 'accidently' and Clinton's planned trip to China was called off.

Since Poppy Bush went to China in the 70s and made his sweetheart deals there with Chinese industrialists and financiers, he has kept China close onto HIMSELF and his closest cronies. BushInc wants to keep connections to China all to themselves.

No surprise to me that Snowden came up through Bush and then went to work at Dell and Booz, two Bush-aligned firms.

[ucrdem]

95. +1

Don't forget the mass shooting in Santa Monica the very day Obama met Xi in Palm Springs, a few miles from where he was speaking at a fundraiser, while he speaking. 6 dead including the shooter at last count. Odd eh?

[blm]

135. BushInc has a knack for finding and exploiting vulnerable, borderline personalities to

mold. David Hinckley comes to mind.

[emulatorloo]

132. Thanks for reminding me about the accidental bombing.

[nineteen50]

119. Tried found guilty and soon to be

droned. How fast justice works.

[pnwmom]

121. Yeah, he's going to be droned. Uh-huh. n/t

[blkmusclmachine]

120. Sock puppets play personality politics

[pnwmom]

122. He's the one that's made this all about him. He chose not to remain anonymous.

And he chose to go to the Chinese newspaper as well.

He seems to be enjoying the attention, just like any grandiose person would.

[emulatorloo]

131. Name another leaker who has appeared in his own glossy video

His roll-out was very media savy, the narrative clearly makes him the star personality.

I'm not saying that is bad, there is a very good marketing group at work and Snowden appears to be a willing participant.

So he put himself front and center: your accusation really doesn't hold water.

[appleannie1]

127. He is a snake, a traitor and a pawn for someone.

[still_one]

129. There is no question that the intent is to embarrass the Obama Administration. He is no hero to me

and not to the majority of Americans who can see right through this opportunist crud

[KoKo]

133. There are Times in Our History..when our Presidents ...really NEED to be Embarassed......

They are not Dictators or Emperors... Obama, himself, ASKED US...to Hold his Feet to the Fire.

I thought that was a good call by him. He's been veering off for awhile. He told us to put the "rope on him to wind him back." He KNEW what he was up against and TOLD US...but some veered off into some kind of "protection of Obama" and the REST OF US...TOOK HIM AT HIS WORD!

We are doing what he ASKED US TO DO...knowing what he would be up against.

What if OBAMA IS NOT THE ENEMY...but the VERY SYSTEM HE WARNED US ABOUT...that WOULD CORRUPT HIM...if WE, the PEOPLE didn't SPEAK UP?

HEY ....HEY.... OBAMA WARNED US!