please point me to evidence that Snowden sold U.S. secrets to Chinese!!

[grasswire]

The only place that is mentioned is in speculation on DU.

Please provide something convincing, or put out the fire on your hair.

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. Seems like if that was his goal, he could have made a whole let less noise about it. nt

[MineralMan]

2. Sold??

I did not see anything about that.

[arely staircase]

6. "sold" is accurate

sell (sl)
v. sold (sld), sell·ing, sells
v.tr.
1. To exchange or deliver for money or its equivalent.

2. To offer for sale, as for one's business or livelihood: The partners sell textiles.

3. To give up or surrender in exchange for a price or reward: sell one's soul to the devil.

4. To be purchased in (a certain quantity); achieve sales of: a book that sold a million copies.

He wants them to protect him and he is giving them info.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

10. "He wants them to protect him and he is giving them info."

And your evidence for this claim?

[arely staircase]

16. yes

he wants them to protect them:

“My intention is to ask the courts and people of Hong Kong to decide my fate. I have been given no reason to doubt your system."
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-hong-kong-snowden-fight-extradition-20130612,0,7064935.story

he is giving them info:

Edward Snowden Reportedly Showed Hong Kong Newspaper Documents Revealing US Hacking Attacks On China

NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden has told a Hong Kong newspaper that the U.S. government has been hacking Hong Kong and Chinese networks for at least four years.

The comments were made as part of the South China Morning Post's exclusive interview with Snowden — his first since revealing himself on Sunday.

Snowden reportedly showed reporter Lana Lam documents that showed the NSA had been hacking computers in Hong Kong and on the mainland since 2009. He estimated there were hundreds of targets in Hong Kong and mainland China, including the Chinese University of Hong Kong. None of the documents revealed any information about Chinese military systems, Snowden said.

“We hack network backbones – like huge internet routers, basically – that give us access to the communications of hundreds of thousands of computers without having to hack every single one,” Snowden told Lam.

- more -

http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-us-has-been-hacking-china-2013-6

[marions ghost]

43. "reportedly showed reporter"

Read that again. "Reportedly showed reporter Lana Lam" ... (weasel words)

So did he or did he not --show documents to Lana Lam?

[grasswire]

7. it's in the "egg on your face" thread

sorry I can't copy and paste on thie puter right now

[Recursion]

3. The claim is here

http://m.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china

(Sorry it's the mobile site; I'm on my phone)

I leave the article to your judgment

Edit: I've not seen anyone claiming he did this for money, if you literally mean "sold"

[still_one]

4. Prove to me he is not

[grasswire]

8. This is America and the rule of law applies to all equally.

The rules of evidence apply.

Creative speculation (prove he's not guilty) are a whole other thing.

[arely staircase]

19. so he will be returning and submitting to US law and its rules of evidence?

nt

[grasswire]

22. they'll bring him home

and then you can have your death watch outside the courtroom and the federal prison.l

"Beware of those in whom the urge to punish is strong." Nietzsche

[randome]

23. So you believe Snowden without any evidence but discount the newspaper report.

Huh. Okay.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[grasswire]

25. !!!

That is the essence of our Constitution.

What the hell do you thin "innocent until proven guilty" means???


We SUSPEND judgment.

We SUSPEND any verdict.

We WAIT for the evidence, according to the federal rules. We WAIT for a jury to convict the defendant.

Otherwise, we are just howling hyenas no better than mob rule.

[randome]

29. I'm not a judge or jury. I can 'convict' anyone I want at DU. So can you.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Floyd_Gondolli]

31. And they have

I find it funny that some of the aforementioned tenets of the constitution apparently aren't being applied to the current President by many folks here on DU.

"We suspend judgement"

[still_one]

35. I heard grand jury's can bring charges to a ham sandwich

[arely staircase]

36. so you think he should come back to the US then?

nt

[grasswire]

38. I have no opinion on what he should do.

This is his to play out. He wants a hearing in court. He may well get it, if they don't rub him out before he can exercise those constitional rights to due process and evidence.

I spose you would want to see him rendered to a country that would waterboard him, or hold him nude in solitary confinement in perpetuity with no charges filed against him?

[arely staircase]

40. if he is to get due process, a jury, etc. that is what he must do.

you, rightly, point out how important those things are, but are ambivalent about him stepping up to them.

I think what he fears most is due process and a fair trial.

[grasswire]

42. then you do not understand this situation at all

His stated goal: to open a public conversation about abuses by the U.S. intelligence gathering agencies.

His statements show that he considered the jeopardy that he is now in, and put his goal above his personal interests.

I believe that his highest objective is due process and a fair trial. Not a secret tribunal, but a fair trial.

In any event, he has achieved his goal already and put his future in the hands of others.

[Autumn]

5. Hey, gotta do what's gotta be done to put this sucker to bed.

Can't be having this shit aired. It might hurt some politician in the long run. And that would make baby Jesus sad.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

12. Very sad.

With that said, we don't want to take our eyes off the ball -- PRISM.

[Autumn]

13. This is make or break in my eyes.

This has to stop these politicians, including the President are not looking out for the American people.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

9. Snowden is a Chinese spy -

Snowden has given them detailed information on the US hacking the Chinese, Snowden has offered classified documents to China, and Snowden deserves a medal from China for his efforts.

All things I learned right here on DU.

I actually read the interview. No evidence for any of the above revealed in the interview.

[dkf]

14. None of the documents revealed any information about Chinese military systems, Snowden said.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3001669

Snowden reportedly showed reporter Lana Lam documents that showed the NSA had been hacking computers in Hong Kong and on the mainland since 2009. He estimated there were hundreds of targets in Hong Kong and mainland China, including the Chinese University of Hong Kong. None of the documents revealed any information about Chinese military systems, Snowden said.

--

This was a leak of US spying on Chinese citizens, not their military.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Yup, I noticed that as well -

Another bit missed in the mad rush to brush Snowden Red.

[grasswire]

24. ...and I thought McCarthyism was a thing of the past

The race to convict Snowden on DU is just stunning and alarming.

[reformist2]

11. The pro-spying crowd is ratcheting up the propaganda...

[cstanleytech]

17. Well I suppose they could be lying here

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1259508/edward-snowden-us-government-has-been-hacking-hong-kong-and-china
Question now is if he did reveal such classified intel to the Chinese government is he still a hero or a traitor who tried to hide behind the illusion of being a hero.

[kentuck]

18. A real spy would have done this on the sly...

So the enemy would have the information and the country being spied upon would not realize it and would keep the same procedures in place. If the country being spied upon is aware of the information given to the enemy, naturally they would not continue the same policies and it would be of little benefit to the enemy. except for PR reasons, perhaps?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

20. This is how a REAL spy does it -

"Breach", the true story of American Robert Hanssen, the FBI agent who sold secrets to the Soviet Union.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401997/

[pnwmom]

33. He went to Hong Kong several months ago. How do you know

that wasn't part of being "a real spy"?

[kentuck]

37. We don't know, do we?

But I would have a difficult time seeing why he would tell any journalist about it if that were the case?

[DevonRex]

34. No. There's a game being played here. Ellsberg wrote

about it in 68 or 69. Blackmail and game theory.

The threat is giving up names of clandestine ops in China. The goal is to get the US to stop hacking. It's interfering with corporations in China.

[geek tragedy]

21. He didn't sell any secrets.

He's bartering.

[grasswire]

26. we don't even have evidence of that.

just let it play out......let the truth prevail.

[geek tragedy]

27. That kind of cuts both ways--this guy has been making a lot of claims.

His credibility is not rock solid.

[okaawhatever]

28. I saw an article earlier that mentioned more specific details about what we were doing. It mentioned

several actual examples of where we had infiltrated their networks. He listed a university and some other things. There are so many articles out there right now, I can't google it.

[DesMoinesDem]

30. Evidence and independent thought aren't welcome here anymore

Only smears, character assassination, unfounded accusations, and unwavering support for Obama.

[pnwmom]

32. He's, at the very least, giving it to them freely,

in his interview with the Chinese newspaper.

If you want to believe that he's not going to profit from this, that's your prerogative. But he's got to support himself somehow now that he's left his $200K -- or was it $122K -- a year job.

[grasswire]

39. If he was in this for the money...

....he would have simply stayed in his job and sold secrets to foreign countries for huge fortune. He would not be a hunted man with a good chance of being "neutralized" at this point.

[pnwmom]

45. Where would he have stashed the fortune now that you can't hide money

in Swiss bank accounts?

[arely staircase]

44. actually he at least wants them to let him stay

lest he come back to the US where he has lot of splainin to do.

[limpyhobbler]

41. Whoever said that seems to be taking talking points from Fox "News" and newsmax.

The right wing news sites have been strongly implying that the leaker was spying for China and that's why he went to Honk Kong.