The Sickening Snowden Backlash

[DesMoinesDem]

The Sickening Snowden Backlash

It's appalling to hear the Washington bureaucrats and their media allies trash Edward Snowden as a traitor, when it's our leaders and the NSA who have betrayed us, writes Kirsten Powers.

Since Edward Snowden came forward to identify himself as the leaker of the National Security Agency spying programs, the D.C. mandarins have been working overtime to discredit the man many view as a hero for revealing crucial information the government had wrongfully kept secret. Apparently, if you think hiding information about spying on Americans is bad, you are misguided. The real problem is that Snowden didn’t understand that his role is to sit and be quiet while the “best and the brightest” keep Americans in the dark about government snooping on private citizens.

By refusing to play this role, Snowden has been called a "traitor" by House Majority Leader John Boehner. Sen. Dianne Feinstein called the leaks "an act of treason." The fury among the protectors of the status quo is so great that you have longtime Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen smearing Snowden as a “cross-dressing Little Red Riding Hood.” The New York Times’s David Brooks lamented that Snowden, who put himself in peril for the greater good, was too “individualistic.” It seems that he wasn’t sufficiently indoctrinated to blindly worship the establishment institutions that have routinely failed us. Brooks argued that “for society to function well, there have to be basic levels of trust and cooperation, a respect for institutions and deference to common procedures.”

This is backward. It’s the institutions that need to demonstrate respect for the public they allegedly serve. If Snowden or any other American is skeptical of institutional power, it is not due to any personal failing on their part. The lack of respect is a direct outgrowth of the bad behavior of the nation’s institutions, behavior that has undermined Americans’ trust in them. According to Gallup’s “confidence in institutions” poll, trust is at an historic low, with Congress clocking in at a 13 percent approval rating in 2012. Yes, this is the same Congress that has “oversight” of the government spying programs.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/14/the-sickening-snowden-backlash.html

[xchrom]

1. du rec.

[still_one]

2. That is why he should have remained hidden if he really wanted the NSA to be the story. This will

now evolve where he will become the story

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. that's not why...

if he were courageous he would stand and face the consequences of his assertions like other real heroes have done before him...

but keep defending the guy that gave State Secret's to China violating the terms of his Top Secret Clearance. But I suppose you have no problem with that because the "Ends justify your means"? right?

[still_one]

4. Those are two different issues. Even though I agree philosophically with you, if he faced the

consequences and came back, you are correct I would have more respect for him, but the media would have focused more on him I believe, rather than the issue, he supposedly was trying to expose.

If he kept hidden and continued to use greenwald to expose what he claims are NSA improprieties, at least for some time, the focus would have been on that, not him. That was simply my point.

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. and this is why it is not just a smearing of Snowden and Greenwald

What they have apparently done requires scrutiny of both of them.

[reusrename]

88. He still has more to tell, or so the story goes.

Why does this have to be resolved so quickly. Don't you think we should take some time and think things over a bit?

[VanillaRhapsody]

89. No one has said that it does...but there are flaws in the story line that you and others swallowed

hook line and sinker (by prematurely proclaiming this guy a hero). Don't you think that was a bit premature?

[reusrename]

100. It's true, I think he's a hero. I think that particular question has been determined.

I'm sure that hundreds, if not thousands, of other individuals also knew for a fact that administration officials were lying to Congress. Out of all those who could have, he is the one who came forward and spoke up about it. And for that, I consider him a hero.

Whether speaking up was the right thing to do is not even a close call for me. I honestly can't imagine what it would be like to be someone who has difficulty with the moral or ethical question here. I just can't.

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. Proof please.....have you seen evidence yet?

You are just going by his word because it fits your narrative...

The guy has to have proof of this...I require proof before I put someone on a pedestal over something they said!

[reusrename]

105. The Verizon warrant.

It proves that Clapper and Alexander lied.

[VanillaRhapsody]

106. and that proves what?

anything illegal?

[reusrename]

109. I know it happens all the time,

but lying to congress is a crime if you do so while acting as a government official:

...whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully ... makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation... shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/47/1001

(Note how the penalties are enhanced when the subject matter involves terra-ists.)

[VanillaRhapsody]

107. How do those things prove Snowden a Hero as YOU called him...

I haven't seen anything he has produced...have you?

[reusrename]

111. It is sad that his actions were heroic and not just normal everyday behavior.

But since hundreds (or thousands) of others who also knew they were lying stood by and did nothing, he displayed extraordinary courage or character which is the mark of a hero.

[VanillaRhapsody]

116. No a hero doesn't run....a hero stands up for what he believes...

also a hero would have shown some supporting evidence

Muhammed Ali went to jail for his beliefs....

this guy is no hero...

[reusrename]

117. A person, hero or not, can make this decision on their own. It's called freedom.

Ali had a huge effect on me as a kid. I was 15 when they ended the lottery. My guess is that a young Muhammed Ali would understand and probably approve of Snowden. They seem to be cut from the same cloth.

[VanillaRhapsody]

118. No I don't think you are right....How on F'ng earth could you possibly for one second...

put them even in the same stratosphere...YOU just proved you are part of the cult of personality!

[reusrename]

119. It's the opposite. I examine behavior. That's all.

Something is preventing us from accepting the same reality and I'd like to understand what it is.

Are you familiar with the story of "kai the hatchet wielding hitchhiker?"

I think it may be relevant. The original youtube video

got millions of views. Basically he saved someone from from being killed by a white supremacist. It's a really wacky story. A few months later, he was found to be a serial killer.

Is that sort of what you're saying.

[VanillaRhapsody]

120. WTH???

Now we have devolved from Muhammad Ali to THAT guy?

SMDH!

[reusrename]

121. My nephew's posse were all huge fans of "that guy."

They were VERY disillusioned when the other shoe dropped.

What I am asking is whether or not you are expecting the other shoe to drop in the Snowden case?

I guess you might not understand the question.

[DesMoinesDem]

7. If he just allowed himself to be arrested

he would NEVER be able to speak to the public like he is doing now. Just take a look at Bradley Manning. You ever hear him say anything? Nope. They threw him in a hole. Daniel Ellsberg went into hiding after leaking, but was also released immediately on bond after surrendering. That won't happen today. Today you get locked up and aren't allowed to speak to anyone. The claim that you aren't courageous because you won't submit to the government locking you up and muting you is so beyond preposterous it's laughable. No one is buying it.

[BrotherIvan]

32. +1

It's so funny that so many here expect him to lay down his life in order to be believed. Newsflash: the administration is not denying it. Difi and Boener already knew about it. THEY'RE JUST PISSED THAT WE KNOW ABOUT IT.

And isnt' the talking point supposed to be,

"We've known about this since 2006."

"This is a non-story because Bush started it."

And, "It's legal!!!"

If so, how is Snowden a traitor?

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. Did we hear Muhammed Ali (aka Cassius Clay) after he was jailed

for standing up for his beliefs?

[JoeyT]

123. +1

The "If he was really courageous he'd let himself be disappeared!" line is quite possibly one of the dumbest attacks there are.

Were I in his shoes I'd have tried to book passage to the fucking moon if it got me out of extraordinary rendition range.

[backwoodsbob]

8. do you feel the same about Manning?

if not why?

[VanillaRhapsody]

92. I have not proclaimed anything about Manning yet...

though if he just downloaded a bunch of data to a hard drive without anything specific in mind and then he just turned that over to Julian Assange to cull for evidence....then I am leaning towards him not being too cool either....but this guy....I have some first hand knowledge of the kind of work he does....and his story always sounded fishy to me...

[backscatter712]

97. How stupid do you think Snowden is?

If he did what you suggest, he'd be supermaxed, psychologically tortured, hit with a kangaroo trial and disappeared.

It's not cowardice to escape from that authoritarian monstrosity.

[me b zola]

5. K&R

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. A familiar phenomenon. They "looked the other way." While the whistleblowers didn't.

Wouldn't.

Probably *couldn't*.

Says a lot about both types. Hence the raging "traitor" talk.

I'm not sure exactly who the "traitors" are ( you'd have to define it for me first) ... but it's not hard to figure out who the cowards are.

[pnwmom]

9. He's sitting in Hong Kong with thousands of classified documents

ready to -- no one knows what he's planning to do with them. Sell them to the highest bidder?

He deserves the backlash.

[randome]

11. He probably doesn't know either. He probably still has that red hood over his face.

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[BrotherIvan]

33. Red Smears are despicable

Did he sell the story to the Guardian? How much?

I thought the BOrG didn't believe he actually had security clearance because "he only worked there three months" and "he didn't graduate from high school." Now jumping on the McCarthy bandwagon is the new thing because that didn't work?

[pnwmom]

66. I am not part of whatever "the BOrG" is and I don't know what "the BOrG" thinks about anything.

I've never questioned his security clearance, though I think -- with 20/20 hindsight -- it's clear he never should have gotten one.

This case has nothing to do with McCarthyism. Joe McCarthy made wild accusations against hundreds of innocent people. I'm questioning the motives of one man who has openly acknowledged stealing classified documents and is sitting in Hong Kong with what he claims are thousands of them.

[BrotherIvan]

70. And yet you never question that a private contractor

has access to so-called "highly classified" documents and the private information of nearly every person in this country. You're more concerned with making sure Snowden is tried for treason. See any problem with that logic?

[pnwmom]

72. I don't believe Snowden that he had the access he claimed -- including access

to the President's emails. But that remains to be seen.

And I've never suggested he should be tried for treason. Treason has a specific definition that doesn't fit his case. If he's prosecuted, it should be for what he did -- stealing and passing on classified documents.

[Cha]

115. China Daily editorial 'toon..

Arapaho415 @arapaho415

Any questions as to whether #Snowden is a "whistleblower" or traitor? China Daily editorial cartoon. via @ryanlizza pic.twitter.com/bqSzqTRwfF




China official news agency: "Whistleblower(sic) Welcome in China" via @ryanlizza #Snowden
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2013-06/14/c_132455893.htm … pic.twitter.com/4mMOyjIRiH




http://theobamadiary.com/2013/06/15/dad-in-chief/

[randome]

10. Are we talking about Ed "I'm-not-trying-to-hide-from-justice" Snowden?

AKA Hong Kong Eddie?

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[DesMoinesDem]

17. Your same old neocon talking points are old, old, old.

Can't you think of any relevant or rational arguments? I'm sure Karl Rove and Ari Fleischer have some new talking points that you could use.

[randome]

20. Well, you don't seem to be downloading the relevant and rational so I may as well mock.

Phone metadata is encrypted, includes no identifying info and cannot be viewed without a 2nd warrant.

There is no 'direct access' as Snowden claimed when he said the NSA can watch as your thoughts form at the keyboard. The only thing in his PowerPoint slides (I can't believe PowerPoint is being used to justify anything, that's just wrong.) showed secure servers that companies use to place data when served with a legal warrant. This makes it easier for the NSA to get the data they requested.

So if there is no 'mass spying' going on, why are we even still talking about this guy?

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[MNBrewer]

29. You're fooling yourself if you think ANY of that is true.

[randome]

41. But you'll believe anything you hear from Snowden.

The guy who ran to Hong Kong after saying he wasn't going to hide from justice.

He has provided no evidence of his outrageous claims and he's in hiding. Why on Earth would I choose to believe him?

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[MNBrewer]

65. You're OK with secret laws, I take it?

[randome]

69. What secret laws? Are you concerned that the FISA court meets in secret?

That's a legitimate concern but I don't know what the answer is if one of the goals is not to give a heads up to the suspects they want to question or capture.

Congress is at least involved in reviewing and approving the process. That may not be enough but I'm not sure what else can be done. We already have the judicial, executive and Congressional branches involved.

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[MNBrewer]

71. Secret laws.

Laws that are public, and have rational, plain-sense meaning, but that also have alternative, classified, secret interpretations that the President uses as an alternative.

THOSE secret laws.

There is no difference between a secret law and a secret interpretation of a law.

[randome]

73. Don't we all interpret the law in different ways?

What does 'freedom of religion' mean? No expressions of religion on federal property allowed or ALL expressions allowed?

Even 'probable cause' has been interpreted by the Supreme Court to not include the phone metadata that started this whole episode. Many disagree with that.

There is still review by Congress. That's how the Constitution was set up, for each branch to be a check on the other. I understand that may not be enough but the two intelligence subcommittees are comprised of both parties.

What other level of review do you think needs to be added? Do NOTHING in secret? That's a valid argument but I don't see it working very well.

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[MNBrewer]

74. This isn't about interpreting the law differently

It's about interpreting it in SECRET and then classifying those interpretations so as to avoid review. You think Congress has reviewed those interpretations? Laughable!

[sabrina 1]

84. And you believe anything Ari Fleischer tells you? He agrees with you on all of this btw.

Still trying to defend the indefensible violation of our Constitutional Rights. I think you left a few of my questions unanswered, or maybe that was someone else. I'll keep asking though, until someone answers.

[BrotherIvan]

34. By your logic then, there is nothing to sell to the Chinese

So which one is it?

[randome]

40. Snowden claims to have 'thousands' of documents.

None of us knows what he has nor why he thought going to Hong Kong was a bright move. The guy will end up extradited, convicted and possibly given a long visit with a psychologist because I think the guy's head is not on straight.

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[BrotherIvan]

44. Here is a direct quote from you

Phone metadata is encrypted, includes no identifying info and cannot be viewed without a 2nd warrant.

There is no 'direct access' as Snowden claimed when he said the NSA can watch as your thoughts form at the keyboard. The only thing in his PowerPoint slides (I can't believe PowerPoint is being used to justify anything, that's just wrong.) showed secure servers that companies use to place data when served with a legal warrant. This makes it easier for the NSA to get the data they requested.

If all the data is encrypted, how does he have anything worth selling? If there is no direct access, how does he have any classified documents?

[randome]

45. No one's talking about the metadata.

You think any country in the world wants to see encrypted numbers and timestamps? That's worthless to anyone but us when using a legal warrant to pull info out of it.

We don't know what Snowden has. If he had the access he claimed, you'd think he'd give us some evidence.

What he has is probably internal NSA documents like the Verizon warrant. I have no idea what he thinks he's doing in Hong Kong. Is he selling anything or just strutting around like the self-important dweeb he now appears to be?

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[BrotherIvan]

46. They are sharing it with other countries so they can spy too!

If it's so worthless and inaccesible, how are they passing it on to other intelligence agencies?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2985752

HT: Prosense!

And you have not addressed the other issue. How did this high school dropout, who only worked there for three months, get top secret clearance and access to such dangerous, traitorous secrets? You people can't have it both ways, no matter how much you try.

[randome]

52. Sharing anything with other countries is, indeed, worrisome.

For the phone data, if they get a warrant, they run a query and pull out the phone number they want, which might -repeat, might- reveal other contacts of the suspect. You know, like good detective work might discover.

And none of us knows how Snowden was able to get his hands on internal NSA documents. That's troubling, too, but perhaps more of a gigantic black eye to Booz Allen's reputation. Maybe if Snowden comes out of hiding, we'll learn more.

Hell, even the guy's resume didn't hold up for long upon examination.

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[DesMoinesDem]

48. Wow. Those are the talking points they gave you?

There is no mass spying going on? LOL. Good luck with those.

[randome]

55. Good luck hitching your wagon to Snowden & Greenwald.

They don't seem to be getting you very far.

I'll believe anything anyone tells me, including Snowden, if they show me some evidence. Not even proof, just evidence.

So far we have none.

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[DesMoinesDem]

56. Have fun defending the NSA with your neocon pals.

I hope someone is paying you because you are working quite hard at it.

[BrotherIvan]

59. Showing us evidence is what they're trying to do

Yet you are calling them traitors for doing so.

[randome]

62. It's been a week now and...nothing.

What's preventing them? All we've seen so far are internal NSA documents. We're still waiting for evidence that NSA agents can see our thoughts forming at the keyboard, as Snowden said.

Or that he had the authority to peek at the President's email. Couldn't he, maybe, I don't know, shown us an email?

Snowden's evidence is as bogus as his resume. Why would anyone trust a guy who hides out in Hong Kong?

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[BrotherIvan]

63. Back to the beginning of your argument

Thanks for the headache. Buh bye.

[Cali_Democrat]

68. "Hong Kong Eddie"

[CakeGrrl]

12. He's wheeling and dealing secrets with the Chinese to avoid jail.

He gets what he gets.

[The Second Stone]

13. Snowden has committed treason to a tyrannical government

that spies on everything we do. Does the end justify the means for Snowden? Does the end justify the means for the government? I see both failing to adhere to the law.

[MNBrewer]

30. Treason is well-defined in the Constitution, and what he did ain't it.

Look it up.

[BrotherIvan]

35. Yes, and the fact that high-level people throw around that word

Should be infinitely frightening.

[carolinayellowdog]

86. especially when it is a bipartisan effort, with Feinstein and Boehner showing their ignorance

but is it ignorance or a deliberate attempt to change the definition without changing the Constitution?

[BrotherIvan]

91. It is trying to make "traitor" synonymous with Enemy of the Rich & Powerful

It doesn't hurt that "treason" only exists during times of war and now the "war on terror" is perpetual and without a specific country to pinpoint. So they could twist the original definition to their liking.

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. k&r!

[Thinkingabout]

15. There has not been anything presented which trust should place trust in Edward Snowden.

He was entrusted with information, had a Code of Ethics and now he wants to come out as a person who should be trusted? Never. He never had to accept the positions of Security Clearance and employment requiring Code of Ethics. Where does he think his position allowed him to reveal top secret information, it did not, then he took it to a foreign media, it was never about being a Whistleblower. If he had researched the Whistleblower Act he would have realized his position was exempt. Another error by this person. He needs to be charged with crimes and face a true court, not the court of Edward Snowden.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. You mean like Thomas Frank and Wiebbe before him?

http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/13410

Trust me, after you read about what happened to them, who went through procedure...it will make sense.

[Thinkingabout]

22. Having worked under a Code of Ethics it does not make sense. I understand reasons not to reveal

information entrusted to me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Well, there is waste, fraud, abuse

And violations of the constitution.

Do they trump that mostly corporate code of ethics?

[randome]

24. Snowden does not get to decide for us what is constitutional or not.

His resume is a lie and his allegations appear to be bogus. Let's look at the evidence, shall we?

Wow, that was fast.

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[KurtNYC]

37. Right. A FISA court gets to decide what is unconstitutional and they DID.

[randome]

43. Better a FISA court that's reviewed by both Congress and the Executive branches...

...than a guy who makes outrageous claims and then goes into hiding in Hong Kong.

And no, the FISA court does not decide the constitutionality of anything. The Supreme Court does that.

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[darkangel218]

53. Youre so far from any type of common sense

[Thinkingabout]

27. Do you believe it is waste, fraud and abuse by what Snowden has presented? If so, he has

negated his integrity by revealing information entrusted to him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. It's not about Snowden

It's about what he's revealed, whole sale spying on the American people.

No, it's not new...but it is toxic. You make it about a person, I make it about the dictablanda we live in, which could become a real, like you conceive off, dictartoship.

Read this from The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/jun/14/climate-change-energy-shocks-nsa-prism

[Thinkingabout]

75. Do you trust the information he has supplied? He also signed on Code of

Ethics and that turned out to be a lie. He has no integrity, lie about one part lie about something else, it only comes easier.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Well, the administration has pretty much admitted

To the info being real. You might want to ask that of General Keith Alexander and DNI James Clapper.

[azoazo]

95. flawed logic

Either he lied to the government about not revealing secrets, or the secrets he revealed are a lie. They cannot both be lies. Therefore, you cannot use his breaking any prior "code of ethics" to show that he is a liar and is therefore more likely that the secrets he revealed are a lie.

[TeamPooka]

122. welcome to DU!

[Major Hogwash]

82. Well, he's the one going to prison, so it is about Snowden.

We can talk about the flowers that are blooming in Hong Kong right now, but that is not what the U.S. Justice Department is talking about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. You mean like Bienne and Wiebbe?

Not one day in jail

Or you must mean Thomas Drake, that case simply fell apart.

I would not bet on that horse. Though I don't fault him from staying away. Not after what was done to those three who followed procedure.

So how about we concentrate on the spying of not just Americans and it's wholesale. Oh we did that, we might have to talk of things we really want to avoid as long as a democrat is in office. Sadly this shit is well...bipartisan.

[uponit7771]

31. +1

[OilemFirchen]

19. Kirsten Powers

I've shied away from emoticons for some dozen years here, but I gotta do it again...

[randome]

25. The emoticon map has missed you. Give in. Give in!

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[KoKo]

21. K&R

[Enrique]

26. Kirsten Powers often sees things the way I see them

in this case, she makes a point I haven't heard from anyone else

Politico’s Roger Simon called Snowden “the slacker who came in from the cold,” with “all the qualifications to become a grocery bagger.” That people feel comfortable sneering about grocery workers—a respectable job—and writing off Snowden’s years working as a security guard as sloth tells you a bit about the culture of the nation’s capital, doesn’t it?

[allin99]

47. that politico article was so ugly. most obvious smear piece ever. and some of the ugliest classism..

i've read in a hot minute.

[Puzzledtraveller]

49. That is how they view everyone outside their bubble, she's dead on.

This attitude is all over the place too. What I think it really is gross insecurity and inferiority complexes that what you are seeing is people who feel threatened by someone who can best them despite their accolades and ivy league educations.

[JDPriestly]

36. Well written, intelligent article.

Who needs an aristocracy when they have an NSA?

They are more arrogant than any bunch of aristocrats. Knowing that they can observe our communications makes them feel important and powerful. And for some reason they need that.

There is no way that the terrorists haven't figured out that they can't use phones or the internet. Remember? Bin Laden had a courier. Isn't how they claim they located him? Wasn't the doctor just to be sure?

[UTUSN]

38. As a trasher, I'm trying to decide which I am, a "D.C. bureaucrat" or a "media ally." Plus,sincerely

(and I'm *always* sincere) distressed by seeing DUers calling us fellow DUers "Liberal advocates of a police state."

We're always being called SOMEthing, like "DLC" (does that group still exist?!1) or talking-points-reciters or some other name-calling up to and including "wingnuts." And I shake my head ruefully over the perpetual circular firing squad. What part of "difference of opinions" does not compute?!1

[backscatter712]

98. You cannot stand with this authoritarian monstrosity and call yourself progressive.

How about I just call you "quisling"?

[forestpath]

39. Lots of the same people frothing at the mouth over him would be cheering him if

Bush was president.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

42. Of no concern. Greenwald just reaffirmed he stands by all his reporting, and more is on the way.

Sure, the police state lovers will come up with new talking points, new ways to make you think that both Snowden and Greenwald are baby killers or similar. But they're going to have to weave all over the place and they'll generally make a spectacle of themselves, with fewer and fewer people believing their self-serving and exculpatory lies.

[Puzzledtraveller]

50. It must really irk them that some great liberal voices are

speaking out against all this. Bernie Sanders? I suppose they'll say he's drank the Snowden cool-aid too.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

54. They'll continue to say all sorts of things

For my part, I'll continue to keep my eye on the issue of the NSA spying on millions and millions of people in a lot of different ways. And I won't allow anyone's personality or party affiliation to trump the actual issues at hand. Yes, I was initially shocked at the rabid behavior of a few who apparently cannot process information that casts a negative light on the President. But I'm acclimated to that now, and I fully expect more of it. I won't be surprised or swayed by arguments or attacks that are based on political fealty.

[One of the 99]

51. Kirsten Powers of FAUX News?

She sold her soul to Murdoch and Roger Ailes years ago. She has no credibility.

[SamKnause]

57. NSA

Hear Hear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[woo me with science]

58. There's an important broader story here about the growing propaganda state.

As the corporate plutocracy has taken over our government, they have also been creating a pervasive and relentless propaganda machine to replace the free press of a democratic society. From the purchased mainstream media to the incessant political astroturfing of the internet, the propaganda machine in this country has never been more manipulative, dishonest, non-transparent, relentless, and determinedly pervasive, systematically infiltrating even discussion boards like DU.

What is being done to this country is well beyond creepy and disturbing at this point. We have been overtaken by corporatists intent on corporate fascism, and we have *already* been stripped of major foundations of our free society, including our right to privacy, our right to free speech, our right to protest, and the free press that was our most important alarm for and protection against government abuse and tyranny.

[marions ghost]

61. +++++++++++++

I have to assume that many people just can't see or grasp the big picture that you describe.

How can anyone watch the stripping of the foundation of our free society, and be OK with it?

How can anyone trust a government that treats it's constituents like children who "don't need to know."
Right there is a breach of trust so profound as to be almost irreconcilable without a lot of hard work.

But before you address the problem you have to SEE the problem. And be brave enough to consider the implications. And be brave enough to voice an objection.

[reformist2]

64. I wish there were a forum where we could discuss this without having to swat away the gnats.

Lord knows it isn't DU!

[Autumn]

67. There are protected places. Try the BOG. It would be logical

since it's a policy of his.

[WillyT]

79. Yep... Damned Tiring...

[zeeland]

80. Now reaching one third of all American

households is Gannett Company in a $2.5 billion deal with Belo Media.
The deal took place yesterday. Garnett is located in suburban D.C.

Another prime example.

[treestar]

76. Meh. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen

Absurd whining. Why should he expect it to be easy for him? Everybody else gets heat, Obama, Hillary on down.

[WillyT]

78. K & R !!!

[Major Hogwash]

81. Kristen Powers from Faux Snooze wrote this tripe.

But then again, we always have loved Faux Snooze here at the DU.

They are great . . . for me to poop on!!!

[carolinayellowdog]

87. perfect username

matches the post

[Major Hogwash]

99. That canard is so old, that it doesn't even get under my skin anymore.

I could have called myself by any other name, but it wouldn't matter as to the content of my posts, of what I am saying.

But, you go right on and defend Faux Snooze all you want, though.

[DesMoinesDem]

108. What a perfectly ironic post.

You say your name doesn't matter, it is the content of your posts that matters. This is right after you attack an article for the name attached to the article, not the content of the article.

[Major Hogwash]

110. No, rather it was the content, the author, and the garbage in the article.

It certainly wasn't just the name of the article.

[DesMoinesDem]

112. Nope. You attacked it because of the author. It had nothing to do with the content.

[Major Hogwash]

113. So, the newb from Iowa loves him some Faux Snooze.

Good for you.

[DesMoinesDem]

114. Still not able to address the content of the article?

But I thought it is all about the content to you?

[Number23]

94. Wow. Didn't know that. Thanks! That explains a lot

[KoKo]

85. Nice and Informative post from "Daily Beast!"

[fujiyama]

93. Feinstein, Boehner, Brooks, and Cohen

Blech. That's some awful company. All the same hacks that advocated the war in Iraq, The Patriot Act, and the bailouts, among other awful policies. The same advocates of a totally unaccountable surveillance state. And it's amazing, just like the rest of the neocons all have profited greatly over the last 12 years and yet they never are held accountable for their piss poor decisions. I'm supposed to take these hacks seriously?

Fuck 'em. They can toss around the word 'treason' all they want. The more they use the word, the less meaning it has. And that goes for the NSA cheerleaders on this site too.

[Octafish]

96. The real traitors lied America into war.

...and used that as a pretext to curtail the Bill of Rights.

Snowden stood up for the Constitution and against the warmongers.

[DCBob]

101. This is from a Faux Dem.

as in Fox News... she been assimilated.

[nashville_brook]

102. k and r

[Overseas]

103. K&R. James Bamford has a much more measured analysis than those slamming Snowden.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/12976

He has studied and written about the NSA for decades and puts Snowden's disclosure into context.

More context from Bamford in a recent Wired post: http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/nsa-prism-verizon-surveillance/