Snowden would have never gotten that job at Booz Allen if he wasn't a White Male

[Yavin4]

This is not about his leaking information. This is about a guy getting a very well paying job in IT with only a GED.

If you're an African American, Hispanic, woman, or anything else, good luck getting that position with only a GED.

[atreides1]

1. An interesting allegation.

Do you have anything to back it up?

[Yavin4]

6. Yes I do

Reality.

[atreides1]

33. Your reality no doubt?

Thank you for the information...or lack of it.

[reformist2]

2. Aha, a new way to bash Snowden!

[Puzzledtraveller]

7. There has to be a playbook somewhere

I wonder what this chapter of 101 Ways To Smear Someone is called.

[Yavin4]

8. Not bashing him per se. Bashing Booz Allen.

Good on him for getting the gig. He would not have gotten it if he wasn't White.

[reformist2]

9. By all accounts, he was a computer whiz. But you stick to your script.

[Yavin4]

13. What proof is there of that? Where?

Folks throw that term around an awful lot.

[Rex]

22. Oh? 'By all accounts' means you can point us to somewhere

with that information.

[HappyMe]

37. Oh, "by all accounts".

Well that settles it! Always a reliable source.


You should have an updated script faxed over.

[Whisp]

61. how whizzie can he be if he doesn't know what 'direct access' is? nt

[woolldog]

51. Yup. I immediately thought the same thing when I read about his history.

Then again, if you're a white male with prison and a felony on your record you will have an easier time landing a job than a college educated black male with no record. Studies have been done on that. So this wasn't very surprising.

[oldhippie]

57. Asians don't seem to have much trouble .....

... getting IT jobs around here.

[woolldog]

68. Asian high school dropouts?

[oldhippie]

69. Yes, actually ......

A couple of my son's car buddy friends. My son works IT for the local school district. He has some car buddies from high school (they were all in the "rice rocket" group) that had no interest in wasting time finishing high school. They were computer nuts and went right to work when they could. One works at a large auto repair shop and specializes in auto computers. He will actually repair and program them, something that the dealerships won't do. The other works for a defense contractor working on flight control computers for aircraft. He is always trying to get my son to come work for them. (My son also re-tunes Honda engine control units for turbo conversions.) It's a pretty hot field and Asians tend to predominate.

[JackN415]

3. Very true! And he got secret clearance because he appears to be "all-American"

[Rex]

4. I wondered about that, I've never met anyone with just a GED

working in a database center or call center or NOC. Curious as to how he got the job.

[Cleita]

5. And Booz Allen would never had gotten that contract with

the government if it weren't for our push to privatize and outsource everything.

[Yavin4]

11. I'm African American. I interviewed for an IT job with a govt. contractor, not Booz Allen.

I have an undergrad degree, an MBA, PMP certification, certifications in Java, Oracle development, and ASP MVC, and I had over 8 years of experience.

The initial round of the interview was over the phone. They seemed very enthusiatic to meet me in person. After the in-person interview, I never heard back from them.

[HipChick]

17. Did you have clearance?

Prior or current?

[Yavin4]

19. Job didn't require it. n/t

[HipChick]

29. There biz is 99.9% govt...

It might have been needed somewhere along your career...not saying BAH is right or wrong...but this is what I have seen at Federal contracting companies

[Cleita]

48. It does sound suspicious.

I've had the same results after I've showed up in person and was of course a lot older than I sound on the phone or on my resume.

[DevonRex]

10. It's the CIA job first that's baffling. WTF? They don't take just anybody.

Who the hell hired him and why? Who the hell did his clearance? Investigate them.

[HipChick]

18. I am still stuck on that one...Security Guard-->IT and cleared by CIA

[DevonRex]

25. We have a mole at CIA. That's the only way to interpret it.

Nobody in their right mind would hire this guy. One check of his Army records with his clearance application and some phone calls to verify the schools he listed and it's all over. That's 2 hours of work tops.

[HipChick]

31. Agree..n/t

[HappyMe]

41. That seems reasonable.

It makes no sense to me at all why this guy had the job he did.

[Rex]

26. Bingo. That is the real scandal imo.

How did this clown get into the position he was in, in the first place? "Because he was white" could be part of the truth...but I've never met anyone in this field of work that had just a GED.

Investigate them!

[DevonRex]

30. Ayup.

Rotten to the core it is.

[Rex]

32. It should worry the living crap out of every American imo.

This isn't just a simple breach of security; this guy walks out of nowhere and has a job that he is not qualified for and would have never been hired for under normal conditions. And now he turns out to be a Chinese informant.

Stinks to high heaven and back.

[DevonRex]

54. I've been thinking...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023016710#top

ETA: Lots of American computers are made in China, aren't they? Apple for one. How about Dell? He used to work for Dell.

[Aerows]

50. I never have either

99% have at least a BS. Those that don't are certified out the butt and have experience that extends way past anything you could have at 29.

[LeftInTX]

53. At first I thought his CIA claims were bogus

Except the Swiss have a record of him being there from 2007-2009.

I also read that the CIA does hire 19 year old nowadays. The article said they have a need for geeky self taught types who think like "hackers". As to the accuracy of this, I have no idea.

[sikofit3]

12. The reason he got that job

Was because he was ex military with a security clearance and supposedly an IT genius as I have read on here. I only know this because I tried to get a job at BAH, I know its like working for the devil, and I had a friend on the inside who recommended me which is a big deal and I have the degree for the particular job I was applying for. NOTHING, you know why? not because I was a female but my friend told me, ex military and those with security clearances are always the first to get the job.

[Yavin4]

15. There are no African Americans or Women in the military?

News to me.

[sikofit3]

20. Of course there are

Do you have statistics on African American Women who have applied to BAH or any other company and have been denied over white male counter parts? I understand why you are saying it but that is reaching. In fact the friend who works at BAH is an African American male and his girlfriend, an African American female works there and that is where they met, both ex military who came with security clearances. The question was how Snowden got in there so easily and it has nothing to do with his skin color. It costs almost 50k for BAH or any company to get a security clearance for someone and since BAH is essentially run by ex military, they want that mentality and that training within their organization. I am not saying it is right or that I agree with it but that is how it has been explained to me.

[Yavin4]

23. Did your African American femal friend have only a GED?

That's my question.

[HipChick]

34. Yavin..truth be told..you are not reaching..

Many of these companies are old white boys club in the management/executive position

In the lower levels, there are many Indians and asians, who are naturalized Americans with clearance..

There are very few women, and even fewer women of color..

[sikofit3]

35. No

Of course not, he is retired Air Force. Listen I am on your side, its just some of the things you are saying are kind of over the top. Snowden's employment at the CIA and BAH is completely suspect, I am sure he knew someone in high places to get that job and I am sure that will come out in time, none of his employment history makes sense with his education and short military involvement. However, he had to have proven himself some how or he would have had a desk job in a basement in DC just to appease who ever wanted him in, unless this is much bigger than that which I have also thought of since the timing of everything is suspect and people in our government would do anything to take down POTUS. I am just waiting on more information.

[HipChick]

16. I've gotten offers from BAH

prior experience or someone you know helps..

[Yavin4]

21. "someone you know helps" It's easier to know someone when you share the same skin color. n/t

[sikofit3]

27. What??

I am a white female and many of my friends are from every skin color imaginable, that is a blanket statement bordering on stereotypical and I can't believe you would say something like that on this site.

[HipChick]

36. She is correct...a lot of the jobs have been from people they knew in the industry

any interviews done if any, was just walking through the motions

[galileoreloaded]

40. maybe your skill set is not currently required?

that's unfortunate and you are clearly upset.

[HipChick]

43. Yavin4 has some very in demand skill sets...but its a blessing

I don't see BAH holding onto their current contracts when it is time to rebid

[Yavin4]

44. I'm not upset. I got a much better offer from a private company.

So instead of working for the good guys, I work for the bad guys.

[galileoreloaded]

46. there are no good guys anymore. nt

[Yavin4]

47. There aint no good guys. There aint no bad guys.

There's only you and me, and we just disagree.

Hey, I should put that in a song.

[SlimJimmy]

56. Bingo. Listen to the YouTube to learn more about why he was hired.

[HipChick]

14. TS helped..I wonder if he was muslim

whether he would still be called a hero

[CakeGrrl]

24. Interesting observation

and I agree.

President Obama wouldn't have gotten ANYWHERE with GW Bush's academic record or drinking/drug history. He's a Constitutional Law professor and the first black editor of the Harvard Law Review, and since he began his run, he's had the knives out trying to paint him at turns as naive, stupid, amateur, needing help from ______ because he doesn't know what he's doing, and they still demand his f'ing birth credentials.

It's that same willingness to fall for the 'nice white guy' looks that has allowed criminals of different stripes to get over for years. For example, Ted Bundy lured women to him playing the wounded/cute college boy who needed help.

Assumptions can be very costly.

[markiv]

28. it's very rare that anyone gets an IT job without at least a 4 year degree, white male or not

before this, i've never known of anyone even getting an interview without one

this is an anomoly, and i'm open to debate with anyone who's actually worked in IT

[HipChick]

38. a lot of the older IT guys do not have a 4yr degree

if they have over 20yrs in the industry - few are going to question them

a kid in his 20's? a whole different matter

[sikofit3]

42. Exactly

This is why I agree that something is not right about Snowden being in at all! My original response was in regards to BAH hiring hierarchy and then it turned into African American females not being hired over white males. I do know that they want atleast a 4 year degree, atleast, with proven work experience on top of that and even that isn't enough sometimes. I have read on the DU that he was supposedly an IT genius whatever the hell that means but still, someone had to pull some strings, so who was that? We will find out.

[markiv]

45. nobody under 55

and anyone over 50 has already been replaced by an H-1b

so it's moot

[NavyDem]

71. I would have to disagree to an extent

I am 42, have 23 years experience in IT (Retired Navy), and had no trouble getting a job in the field. I have a GED, Security+, Network+ and MCSA on Windows Server 2003. The MCSA I got in the last 2 weeks.

I originally worked as a Tech Training Consultant, and then when I lost that position due to sequestration, I was picked up almost immediately (less than 1 week from end of one job to start of next).

For the record, I am a white male, and had many contacts with contractors through my time in the Navy. It very much is who you know nearly as much as what you know. If I didn't know people, I would be unemployed.

[Puzzledtraveller]

39. I find it surprising too

Enough that I recently thought I need to start applying for some better paying jobs. However, I do seperate that from the revelations but I concede this point.

[loli phabay]

52. i agree but there are exceptions, college education is not everything

I knew a guy growing up who was a real geek, just had a knack for computers who was snapped up by the government when he was a teenager. On the outside he works for the health department but ive bumped into him a couple of times overseas working tech on surveillance for the military. He is an exception but not the only one. I dont know this guy snowdens skillset but if you have something thats unique or hard to find then formal education in it is not needed.

[wickerwoman]

55. A friend of mine

I went to high school with dropped out her final semester because she was pregnant, had the kid, got an essentially clerical job with a major IT company through a friend in the 90s and 18 years later manages testing for a smaller company. She doesn't even have a GED but is very smart, confident and reads compulsively in her free time. She's one of the better educated people I know.

Not saying it isn't rare, but it's certainly possible for bright people who aren't white males to rise up the food chain through work experience rather than education.

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Now that the dust is settling, folks are beginning to ask some very good questions re: Snowden.

You're exactly right, his entree into the world of top secret intelligence agencies was no doubt aided by his skin color. Can you imagine a black 20 something, with nothing more than a GED being granted that kind of access, and in a position to make anywhere from $122k to $200k/yr no less?

It reminds me of that experiment that was performed years ago. Some investigative reporters sent a black customer, and a white customer into a clothing store, and the staff were so busy monitoring the black customer, meanwhile the white customer was stealing them blind. White male privelege is, and will always be a part of the American fabric, that's why they're arming themselves to the teeth, just in case.

[sikofit3]

59. Maybe I am naive

But... I think when it comes to the military and intelligence that it doesn't matter. I know there is a standard, hell I am a female I live it every day in the IT world however, I wouldn't be so quick to say at Snowdens level this is true. You do know who POTUS is don't you? That being said, I am not dumb enough to not know it is a white mans world but I can't understand why this case is bringing up skin color, I really can't. Who cares if Snowden is white! Its the message and the implications and the illegality we should be discussing... even though I got pulled into this sort of...

[Tarheel_Dem]

62. What does the POTUS have to do with white male privelege? That analogy is played out and wrong.

WE THE PEOPLE elected Barack Obama. Some dude or dudette (probably white) at BAH hired Edward Snowden. You see the difference?

Until you walk in black or brown skin, you'll never know the depths of the ingrained white privelege in this country. There's no way in hell a black kid with a GED would be hired ANYWHERE, at that pay grade, and he/she certainly wouldn't have been granted the kind of access given to Mr. Snowden. You don't have to acknowledge any of this, but this is the American way, and has been from the beginning.

Snowden has opened the door to a lot of unintended discussions, and some of his former, well paid colleagues will no doubt pay a price for it. And can you point out the "illegality" you're referring to? As I understand it, that's not even alledged. You may consider it unethical, but when there's a court order involved, how is that "illegal"?

[sikofit3]

64. What does skin color have to do with any of this?

Please, this is about a whistle blower and the NSA and the infringement on our rights. I shouldn't have even entertained this topic as long as I have. We are getting off topic. Geeeezzzzzzz

[Tarheel_Dem]

66. Snowden made himself "the topic" as soon as he sat down with that Chinese newspaper. He made a.....

spectacle of himself by declaring that he would "leave his fate in the hands of the Chinese". WTF? You obviously thought the president's "race" was important in the context of this conversation, or you wouldn't have brought it up.

[sikofit3]

67. I am sorry

If you read my whole diatribe following that last post you will see why I brought it up... ughhh this is exhausting. Sorry, I am new to this whole thread with ten million different views and people pulling apart everything (not meaning you) so please forgive my newbiness but I did have a point that got lost somewhere in cyber hell LOL I think i will take a break from posting and just be a lurker.

[blm]

58. He got the job because he's a Bushie. CIA? Dell? Then Booz? He fits the bill. Vulnerable. Hinckley.

Running to China for 'freedom' and speaking to a Bush buddy's newspaper?

[sikofit3]

60. THIS!!!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Whhhoooossshhhh!!!! Not about the leaker

but the leak

[sikofit3]

65. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Earth_First]

70. Clearly your knowledge of females in the intelligence community is severely lacking...

In WWII nearly 6,000 women served in intelligence community from the UK alone.

The current CIA (CIO) Jeanne Tisinger, is a woman.

I suggest you hit up Google and educate yourself.