RVN VET
It is hard to be a "good german" sometimes isn't it.. When the evidences against it is clearer and cleaner - but it is a difference between US and both Germany and the Soviets under Hitler and Stalin. Both of them used the fear of camps - and "re-education" of the prisoners - to scare the rest of them to silence and to obedience.. The US have not used the camps - in the continental US yet - to make the rest, who are not in custody - silenced and obey the commands from the leaders.. And the american population is for the most part oblivious about what happened in Abu Ghraib before the whole thing blow up in their faces - My first knowledge about it, was at least 3 mounts before, as rumors spread and even Time reported that not everything was up to task in some un-disclosed US run camps inside Iraq.. But it was not before the thing blow up in everyones face - and the pictures from Abu Ghirab - a well-known prison, who was infamous even in Saddam Husain's time - that it was known what happened there - and some was put in a prison for a time - even though the smart ones was sure not to get a picture of them doing their deeds on the prisoners... And I guess the ones who got arrested, really never understood the horrible act they inflicted on the prisoners - or anything near what the Geneva convention said about POWs, or prisoner treatment in general... And the leaders on the top - up to the president and Vice-president was not telling them either how to run the show.. But then again - the german soldiers who was taking picturing of themself - or their friends who was shooting civilian on the eastern front, or who wisting the graveyards where a couple of thousands jews was murdered, neither believed they one day could be hold accountable for their crimes.. Or who wrote letters home to their loved once - where they told the story about what happened in the war... For the historians, it have been a goldmine in later years - as new information have come to light - and it looks like it still is a lot of history to be written about WW2 in Europe...
The Gitmo - was a solution to a problem - what to do with enemies of the US - and their supporters ?.. If they had been kept in the US, they could demanded a trial - and evidences against them.. At Gitmo they are out of mind - out of sight - and therefore can, and have been kept in a prison for years - some of them have lived on the camp, all the time since it was first build - and have survived at least 12 year - similar to some of the prisoners of Oranianburg - or Dachau as it was more known - after the original camp, was closed, and the whole affair become Dachau KZ camp in 1934.. And we all know how Dachau was (or at least should know ) Even doubt I believe Gitmo are on the same level - but they are still keeping people away from a trial and any form of Justice. If the US should be the leader of the world - at least they should give the prisoner of Guantanamo Bay a day in court - and hear the evidence against them.. If not, they should be given back their freedom -and sent back to their country of origin, as I doubt most of them would be dangerous after the treatment at Gitmo for the last 12-14 year.. If their spirit was not broken before, I strongly Belive any spirit they might have today, is broken all over...
You can not justify Gitmo - and then ask the world to act as you tell them to do - not as you do yourself.. After the mistreatment of prisoner in Iraq - and at Guantanamo Bay in the hands of the US government - all the wording about democracy - and the well-treatment of innocents who the different government officials in the US have spoken have been hollow at best - at the worst outright a scam.. It is sad to say - I have often the last couple of years told the TV to shut up when some of the officials have spoken against torture - when we know they are them self condone the use of torture against civilians - regardless of the evidences against them... And the former administration of GWB jr, outright justified the use of torture - Water boarding IS torture, regardless of how you can justify it... The US got overboard in 2001 and have still yet to recover for it all....
The Gestapo, or the NKVD, justified it by telling it was because they wanted to protect the civilians, against the ones they was torturing - even as the broad brush of the NKVD and Gestapo, many times over, was torturing innocents - because they was BELIEVING they was not innocent.. And in most cases - either did Gestapo, or NKVD needed any evidence to show up in corth with - other than the "evidences" given by the NKVD, after torture.. The same happened in Germany at the same timeframe.. Seldom any evidence - just a corth sentence - death by shooting - or maybe prison for many years.. My mother had a uncle, who was arrested in 1942 - as part of a home front group against the german - he was sentenced to 10 year in a prison by the germans - after beeing beaten and othervice tortured for weeks.. He survived - just survived - and had to be treated for his ilnesses in Sweden for 6 mounts before he was well enough to be sendt back to Norway - where he was in a hospital for another 6 mounts before he finaly was recovering from what he had experienced in the hand of SS... I guess some of the prisoners from Gutanamo Bay and other places would not be that lucky - to have some places to reqover from their damages in the hand of the US government...
Dicloitican
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