Snowden is a Chinese Spy and has been for years.

[denem]

Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 12:41 AM - Edit history (4)

Without more, what we know so far doesn't add up at all.

(Fla Dem) We know that Snowden

-was a high school dropout
-where both the community colleges he said he attended has no record of him
-was kicked out of the army after 3 months
-goes to work at the NSA
-get his next job at a NSA sub-contractor at a salary of $122,000
-moves to Hawaii with a good looking girl
-receives a high level security clearance
-has access to the most sensitive documents regarding government surveillance
-after 3 months at his job somehow manages to steal high security documents
-turns those documents over to a reporter who just coincidentally he had been in contact with BEFORE he went to work for the sub-contractor
-up and leaves his girl friend in Hawaii and seeks sanctuary from one of the most oppressive governments in the world
-released those documents which details electronic surveillance on that country just as the President is meeting with the head of that oppressive government

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3016927

- Snowden takes refuge in Hong Kong
- Speculation mounts he is about to 'defect' to China;
-that he has possess super-secret information,
above and beyond the fruits of their regular Chinese hacking;
and this was supposedly obtained, through his position as a contractor;

Without more,
Nothing makes sense. But this does:

Snowden was a CIA employee, working in IT security. This we know. He then joined BAH as an operative. He had considerably more cyber skills than his records suggests. This we know. As (ex?) CIA, security clearance was not a problem. The problem was he was a double agent. (Alternative narrative, notwithstanding his experience in IT security at the CIA, he was shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover how NSA conducts operations).

And that is one angle that is not going to get much press.

And What does make sense is that China ( and the rest of cyber intelligence around the world), already knew this pedestrian stuff. The challenge was to publish through a plausible source, to publish at an opportune time.

Like follow the money; there is one obvious winner here.

[MotherPetrie]

1. And if he is, what does that say about the NSA's vetting process for contractors?

What it says is the NSA management doesn't give a shit as long as their contracting buddies are standing by with high-salaried jobs for THEM when they leave the government, and that corruption goes all the way up the chain.

[denem]

5. It says his position as a contractor did not require top security clearance

because in that position he would not have had access to top secret documents. But the man had skills (or help) not evident from his resume nor other history.

[MotherPetrie]

9. He still worked for a contractor that worked for NSA! Why did they hire him at all?

[neverforget]

17. you don't get access to classified material without

a clearance at the appropriate level.

[DevonRex]

12. The issue is who the fuck hired him at CIA and who did his

background check. That has to be investigated.

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. I heard the SOB had BOXES in his garage

and that he once took more than one penny at the "take a penny" dish at his local convenience store.

[lob1]

24. I heard he had a cat! A PERSIAN!

[railsback]

29. I heard he ran to China

but forgot his bombshells.

[flamingdem]

34. Yes he remembered but they were all duds

trombone plays; waa waa waaaa

[backscatter712]

32. He kidnapped the Lindbergh baby!

And he ate paste in preschool!

[Aerows]

37. I heard his mother was a hamster

and his father smelled of elderberries!

[Summer Hathaway]

55. I heard that the people

who declared him the Greatest American Hero within 48 hours of hearing his name for the first time are now insisting that it his "detractors" who are promoting the trivial aspects of his life.

And yet, if you read the threads about the infamous 'list of trivialities', it becomes immediately apparent that the only people pushing this perspective are the too-quick-on-the bandwagon Snowden's supporters.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. I heard he likes Chow Mein and Egg rolls.

Verrrrry suspicious.

[Chan790]

15. Not as suspicious as egg foo young, chop suey and fortune cookies.

Those are so top secret that Chinese people claim to have never heard of them.

[Earth_First]

4. Excellent work, gumshoe!

Now tell me, what has changed in the halls of the NSA as a result of your sleuthing?

Nothing?

[denem]

11. If the NSA has been seriously compromised

they will not be talking about it.

[backscatter712]

33. SERIOUSLY COMPROMISED!

They're just butthurt because now people are complaining about them making Google for Tyrants.

[denem]

42. Compromised.

A contractor get access to secure data. Yes, compromised.

[backscatter712]

43. The NSA did that to themselves.

That's what they get for letting private mercenary companies touch their private parts.

[denem]

44. Like the DoD, the NSA does not give contractors

access to their secured inner networks.

[allin99]

6. i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. lol.

[DevonRex]

7. Take a look at this post.

17. "China Is Winning the Cyber War Because They Hacked U.S. Plans for Real War" (Gee, how??)

BY ALEXANDER ABAD-SANTOS | MAY 28, 2013
Ballistic-missile defenses, joint-strike fighters, Black Hawks, and more — Chinese hackers have their hands on plans for these and more of the Pentagon's most sophisticated weapons systems, just the latest sign that the culture of hacking in China continues to put America on the defensive ahead of a tense meeting between President Obama and Xi Jinping, a summit bound to be tense with cyberwarfare diplomacy.

The Washington Post's Ellen Nakashima reports in Tuesday's paper that Chinese cyberthieves have "compromised" mockups that form the "backbone" of some of the U.S. military's most important and high-tech defense technology, and that it could signal a copycat advancement of China's arms, while aiming to "weaken the U.S. military advantage" down the road. The Chinese government, as usual with these attacks — even when they seem connected directly to the People's Liberation Army — are distancing themselves from the pervasive, and this time very internationally unsound, hacking. "The Defense Science Board, a senior advisory group made up of government and civilian experts, did not accuse the Chinese of stealing the designs. But senior military and industry officials with knowledge of the breaches said the vast majority were part of a widening Chinese campaign of espionage against U.S. defense contractors and government agencies," the Post reports.

http://m.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/05/china-hackers-pentagon/65628/

And there China had their own little hacker right inside the whole goddamned time.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3019779

[denem]

14. This is the point. China already knows the pedestrian stuff released

but, publishing it required a legitimate source.

[DevonRex]

30. And getting misinformation reported, too.

I know he lied about some things regarding what people, analysts and techies, can do on their own. And he implied some terms meant things they didn't mean.

[okaawhatever]

41. I wonder if the investigaton into the leak from late April/early May would have outed Snowden and so

he went ahead and did what he was going to do. He may have had plans to stay there and get additional info except he might have thought any investigation would affect him. I think if China were going to get to him they would have done it in Japan.

[DevonRex]

45. Well

Someone gave this guy a job and a clearance in the CIA, not as a contractor, but an actual CIA employee. That's suspicious. Might be he didn't have to go anywhere for Someone to get to him.

Yeah, I wonder about the other leaks too. The AP leak about CIA/MI6 operative in Al Qaeda. Then that Fox News thing about Korea. The leaks look really, really bad as far as what's going on inside. Could be RWers. Could be China. Could be corporate mixed in.

[UTUSN]

8. Somebody clue me in: Is this a joke. Or satire. Or what. n/t

[DevonRex]

16. "China Is Winning the Cyber War Because They Hacked U.S. Plans for Real War"

http://m.theatlanticwire.com/global/2013/05/china-hackers-pentagon/65628/

And

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/confidential-report-lists-us-weapons-system-designs-compromised-by-chinese-cyberspies/2013/05/27/a42c3e1c-c2dd-11e2-8c3b-0b5e9247e8ca_print.html

"Confidential report lists U.S. weapons system designs compromised by Chinese cyberspies". By Ellen Nakashima, Published: May 27

-----

Mighty handy for hacking if they actually have an IT Security guy inside, right?

[The Magistrate]

10. It Is Certainly Possible, Sir

[DesMoinesDem]

13. You figured it out Alex Jones!

[Th1onein]

18. ROFLMAO

Wow.

[HooptieWagon]

19. LOL! Epic fail!

Undercover spies don't go to the press to tell their story. Keep spinning, though...you may reach China yet!

[denem]

22. Ah ... getting it to press was the point.

[HooptieWagon]

26. Then could you give a link to his statement he was working as a spy for the Chinese?

Your premise is beyond foolish. If he was working for the Chinese, and had access to secret data, documents, and inside knowledge of govt intelligence operations, he would have stayed at the job a long time ...then suddenly disappeared. Not go public to a reporter. Your conspiracy theory is patently ridiculous to the point of being comically laughable.

[denem]

46. Yes he said it,

he came right and said I work as an intelligence operative. Fail.

[HooptieWagon]

47. He worked for Booz-Allen Hamilton...

a company involved in the intelligence business. He never said he was working for the Chinese.

If he WAS working for the Chinese, why would he leave BAH after 3 months? Why not work longer for more money? Why would he go public? Your whole theory is ridiculous...sounds like something Alex Jones would concoct.

[denem]

48. He worked for the CIA in IT Security,

He then joined BAH, but apparently was so shocked by NSA operations he jumped ship.

Give me a break!

[HooptieWagon]

49. CIA = intelligence, NSA = intelligence.

So if he said he worked in intelligence, he was referring to his work there. No evidence he was working as a Chinese spy. Your claim isn't mere speculation, its fabrication. Epic fail.

[WillyT]

20. Oy Fucking Vey...

And his mother wears Army boots.

[UTUSN]

21. So, did they PAY him or did they send a BALLERINA or what?!1 n/t

[denem]

23. As the Soviets said, Americans are easy.

You just give them money.

[Tx4obama]

25. Peter King Suspicious Of Snowden’s China Connections: ‘He Studied Chinese’

Peter King Suspicious Of Snowden’s China Connections: ‘He Studied Chinese’ (VIDEO)

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/peter-king-suspicious-of-snowdens-china-connections-he

[mick063]

27. Big Deal

Corporate America is the poster child for Chinese agents. They dwarf your façade of "national security" concern. The Joint Chiefs of Staff have already declared that economic instability, not terrorism, is our nations greatest security risk.

Workers from a Bane held company were expected to train visiting Chinese for a replicated plant built in China. I would call this a much more evil "incident".

Damn near everything you buy is made in China. You have your priorities for being pissed off wrong.

So sad. Defending ultra expensive, privatized spy conglomerates that peek through hand held devices upon US citizens isn't high on my priority list of concerns relative to a petty whistleblower that brought outrageous government behavior into public consciousness.

Look at the forest dude.

[Cerridwen]

28. What credentials does the material he provided have?

Or are you just too busy killing the messenger to look at the message?

Will you behead or shoot the messenger? I'm never sure which form the authoritarian supporters of the status quo prefer.

[bowens43]

31. you need to switch from tin foil to copper, the rays aren't being blockd.......

unfucking believable???? Who fucking cares? Wven if true, he did this country a great service by bringing this attack on our Constitution on to the front pages

[backscatter712]

35. Where'd you hear that? FOX News?

[flamingdem]

36. maybe we can outsource our wars to China?

see something good will come from this

[Aerows]

38. The attempts

to smear the messenger are getting ridiculous.

[denem]

40. Did you even bother to read the OP nt.

[kenny blankenship]

39. Yeah, that cat is as Chinese as Fu Manchu!

[grantcart]

50. Then he is the worst spy in history.

As a general rule spies don't actually end up on the front page announcing their actions but spend decades providing information without the target knowing what is happening.

[denem]

51. 1. An asset follows his/her controllers instructions

2. The timing of publication benefit only one party - china
3. No Snowden was embedded to snare great intelligence,
but to provide plausible source to publish (well know) material
at a most opportune time.

What Snowden did was, in context, of incredible value to China;
the timing was spectacular. An accident - nah.

[grantcart]

63. lol this is the silliest analysis of a covert operation I have ever seen.

And yes I have had a top secret clearance and involved in non national security secret operations.

[graham4anything]

52. As Bing Crosby used to say, It's all in the timing. and to China, well time works well for them.

“Your best work involves timing. If someone wrote the best hip hop song of all time in the Middle Ages, he had bad timing.”
― Scott Adams

another old adage

who does it benefit
who does it not

and what SCOTUS will rule on when they rule on

THIS COURT will get a different reading than Hillary45's court. And THEY know it, which is why the Bush family wants a SCOTUS ruling NOW, and then, forever their own piece of cake will never melt in the dark.

timing
Had Thomas Jefferson said what he did then when he wrote "all MEN are created equal" but left out women and minorities,
well good ole' Tommy would not be remembered today at all.(as it should be if timing had been better).

timing
Had the Miami Dade County riot we all know now was fake happened when the net was as big as it is now, well, they would
have instantly been outed that second, not years later, the recount would have continued, etc.
(of course, timing had NH 2000 happened in 2008, would they have voted for Ralph Nader???)

tick tock tick tock, timing.

[YeahSureRight]

53. Mighty interesting theory you got there

good luck trying to prove it all.

[BenzoDia]

54. Need more evidence than this. It's all circumstantial.

[Swagman]

56. some ignorance being shown here about Hong Kong

Hong Kong operates independently of mainland China and has it's own British based system of law and has resisted all attempts at influence of it's legal decisions and at times a million Hong Kong residents take to the streets to ensure it remains that way.

Mainland China likes it that way as Hong Kong is the financial hub of Asia it isn't going to let a paltry alleged 'spy' affect it's relations with the world one way or the other.

some people here are living in the 1950s.

[DeltaLitProf]

61. This is flatly untrue

Hong Kong does have its own city government but it is most assuredly NOT independent of Beijing. And Beijing has been increasing its control of the city in recent years:

Here's a NY Times piece on Hong Kong's recent status:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/opinion/hong-kong-a-strange-place-to-seek-freedom.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[carolinayellowdog]

57. we have always been at war with Eastasia

that makes Snowden guilty of treason

[cali]

58. lame conjecture. I'll tell you what doesn't make sense: Making shit up and not waiting

to find out the facts.

but never mind, continue with your fantasy crapola

[Laelth]

59. Highly unlikely, I would think.

But possible. I really don't know. Don't even have enough data to make a good guess.

-Laelth

[DCBob]

60. I dont think so.. if he was he would have stayed at his job.

[Apophis]

62. Ah. More character assassination.