General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPATHETIC! - Only 47 of 100 senators attended the 2:30 NSA Spy briefing
Senators skip classified briefing on NSA snooping to catch flights home
Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/305765-senators-skip-classified-briefing-on-nsa-snooping-to-catch-flights-home#ixzz2WItSf3il
A recent briefing by senior intelligence officials on surveillance programs failed to attract even half of the Senate, showing the lack of enthusiasm in Congress for learning about classified security programs. [...]
The Senate held its last vote of the week a little after noon on Thursday, and many lawmakers were eager to take advantage of the short day and head back to their home states for Fathers Day weekend.
Only 47 of 100 senators attended the 2:30 briefing ...
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/305765-senators-skip-classified-briefing-on-nsa-snooping-to-catch-flights-home
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)It throws into sharp relief many expressions of 'surprise' by various congress-critters....
The most likely reason for any Representative or Senator expressing surprise or shock at revelation in this matter is that the person was simply not doing their job, being overwhelmed by a tight schedule of fund-raising calls, intercession on behalf of constituents seeking funds from the government, photo-ops and similar publicity stunts, and so just not having the time to attend to the business of governing....
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)govern? that's what they're elected to do?
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)it rings false when the President uses the notion that NSA spying is subject to Congressional oversight to defend it.
There really is none.
kentuck
(111,089 posts)If they were in the private sector, they would all be fired.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)and meanwhile, new developments...
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Collectively, we can't pay them as much as the rich and the super rich. When they are motivated by money, why should they work for us instead of those who have even more money?
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Then they would be given bonuses.
BeyondGeography
(39,370 posts)Too bad it takes a kid ruining his life to shed light on congressional delinquency.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)national intel functions farmed out to the private sector.
Jesús H. Christ on a cracker!
demmiblue
(36,845 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Autumn
(45,066 posts)tblue
(16,350 posts)We've been played.
still_one
(92,187 posts)!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)it 'did not see' the entire Intelligence Report, despite the fact that it was made available to them. At least one Senator who did see it, actually changed his mind.
timdog44
(1,388 posts)I am the guy you spanked earlier today about things I have said about this whole fiasco.
This is disgraceful for our elected officials, especially the senate, who are supposed to be the level headed ones, to have less than a 50% attendance rate at an important meeting of the type. I would like to see a list. The only thing I have seen is that dear ole Rand Paul was seen walking out of the meeting, so now we have 46 who sat in. And he has been so vocal about all this. Hypocrite.
And I see what you were telling me about the run up to Iraq, with these guys not attending the meetings they were elected to be in attendance. One reason I would like to get rid of the congressional building and make these guys "rule" from home. They would be, then, in my back yard and I could make my feelings known. There needs to be some kind of way to this and make them be visible and transparent. I have not fleshed this out yet, but I will.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)staying in their districts where they have to face those who elected them rather the lobbyists for Big Corporations who seem to have unlimited access to them. They could have maybe four of five trips to the Capitol Bldg every year, where they should be videotaped so we know what they are doing.
Even now we could check their donor lists and then look at how they vote. Eg, how many of them received contributions from Booz Allen, the 'security Corportation that hired Snowden and has our Constitutional rights in their hands?? Money is at the root of all of this. The only way to make the government more representative of the people, is to take the money out of politic because the people cannot compete with the money that Corporations use to bribe them to pass laws that benefit them.
I think then, we see more of them abiding by their oaths to 'defend and protect the CONSTITUTION. Right now, they completely ignore it as these multi billion dollar Security corporations would not get all those billions in funding to spy on the American people etc, IF our Reps were actually doing the job they swore to do.
MH1
(17,600 posts)I would like to know which ones showed and which ones didn't.
WestStar
(202 posts)and the FISA judges that were rubber stamping the 90 day renewals put the lie to Judicial over-site.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)because the story is in the news right now.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)Short days are a hell of a lot more important than knowing government stuff.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)if you go and are briefed on a classified subject, you're muzzled. Whereas if you don't go, you can talk all you want.
I'm not defending them but that needs to be taken into account too.
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/13/chris_pyle_whistleblower_on_cia_domestic
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023010041
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)First, they literally make the rules. If they want to talk, they can. Because if a rule gets in the way, they can change it.
Second, if they want a program to stop because it's wrong, they don't have to say a damn thing. They control the government's money. They can forbid money to be spent on the program without discussing the program. Ta-da! Program over.
The "they skipped the briefing so they can talk" crowd are searching for an excuse for their favorite congresspeople, who abandoned their oversight duties.
cali
(114,904 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Why, they'd never ever spin that failure to be their problem. Instead, it's those other evil people who are causing the problem!
Keep voting for me, and I'll keep skipping briefings....er....fighting those evil people!
(ETA that doesn't mean they did not have a good reason for skipping the occasional briefing. But I have a hard time believing they managed to have a good reason to skip 30 briefings)
Congress created the classification system through the National Security Act of 1947. You are claiming they can make the system, but can not alter the system at all.
cali
(114,904 posts)and yeah, I'm claiming that my rep can't alter the sytem.
I know my rep. I know him from when he served in the Vermont Senate. I know him from talking to him. I know him from the town meetings he frequently holds.
Yep, I trust my rep and both my Senators, Bernie and Pat over the crap that you're spewing.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)If Peter has a security clearance, it doesn't matter if he's briefed or not.
Leaking is not declassification. As a result, Peter is required to treat the information as classified no matter how he got it.
So it doesn't matter if he gets an official NSA briefing, or gets the information from Greenwald. The law requires him to treat the information the same way.
So no, briefings can not apply a muzzle. Because they are already muzzled.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)1) Were there earlier briefings in the last 6 years that covered the same stuff? Were some of those who went home Senators who saw them?
2) Was the briefing taped and available for Senators to view when they return?
I assume that many had already scheduled flights that they could not easily change and they could have have had events planned in their states. The question I have is why was a time after the scheduled end of votes chosen. It would be interesting to see the list. It makes a difference if some who claimed they were never briefed - missing something like 22 briefings - were the ones missing.
The executive branch says there were more than 30 briefings before Snowden's leak.
2) Probably not. Since it's classified, recording the briefing, storing the recording and providing copies of it at the whim of congresspeople is not easy.
Most of them fly home every single week. They've spent so much money the airlines would cheerfully change their tickets.
Not to mention the airlines don't want to emphasize to Congress just how badly they're screwing consumers. That might make congresspeople think they should do something about it.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)and they would have to go to the NSA to view it there. Giving them their own copies would be a recipe for disaster.
Your last point is well taken. Charging the exorbitant fees for changing could create consumer friendly legislation when the charges are well beyond the reasonable cost.
SamKnause
(13,101 posts)1) It is their job to stay up to date on important issues. Things have changed in the last 6 years. The way the law is being interpreted has changed. The way bills are being interpreted has changed.
2) I don't care one little bit what plans they have, or if they had flights scheduled. I have had to work forced overtime many times in my life. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Thanksgiving. They work for us. They need to earn their pay, benefits and perks. Some of those esteemed politicians are working on getting rid of the 40 hour work week and overtime pay.
Are you aware they are scheduled to work 126 days for the 2013 calendar year ? Can you imagine that in your wildest dreams ?
Why are people who are elected, and their salaries paid for with our tax dollars, so coddled and held in such high regard ?
If this is what passes for government, then the U.S. has little, or no government. I can count on 1 hand the politicians that work hard for and represent 'we the people'.
Did you watch the 24 minute video that Alan Grayson gave ?
He explained this matter in detail.
I hope you watch it and enjoy it.
Have a great weekend.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)likely told very little, about not much.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Many people right here in DU City dont care. Trying to stifle attempts at investigating this further. They want to lynch Snowden, close up the NSA box and go back to watching "Dancing with the Stars(?)"
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)They weren't briefed. They are LAZY. Besides, it's almost summer break.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)& Rec !!!
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)are honing their bullshit talking points for the Sunday Morning Funnies!
We need hard hitting questions and the Sunday losers are worthless!
NaturalCommunist
(15 posts)Maybe that's because 53 understand that this is a non story and NSA isn't really "spying".
Of course if the NSA wasn't stopping terrorist attacks, then the attendance numbers might be different.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)magellan
(13,257 posts)Also, can you provide evidence for your claim that the NSA is stopping terrorist attacks? Like the methodology and data used to uncover the plots? The devil's in the details.
NaturalCommunist
(15 posts)Give me a break. The Obama administration stated that it has stopped countless attacks.
Perhaps we should be grateful for the people we vote for rather than opposed just because some alarmist got your attention.
The job of the Federal government is to protect the country. That includes against people here plotting to do us harm. I for one think we're much safer with the program. Although I have nothing to hide. Perhaps that is the issue for many?
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)Its also noted that many senators and house reps, mostly GOPers refuse to attend meetings of any sort be it economics 101, jobs, educational, unemployment issues, social issues, et al.,
magellan
(13,257 posts)Are you telling me that if someone followed you around all day every day, taking notes of where you go, who you talk to, what you buy, what interests you, and heaven knows what else, you wouldn't accuse them of spying on you? Don't be foolish.
How quaint that you trust the word of the government without proof. Your 'nothing to hide' comment is quaint too. So glad to see you're on board with the idea that everyone's guilty until proved otherwise. Tell me, do you regularly let the police rifle through your computer and perform a cavity search on you and your loved ones to prove you've nothing to hide?
You may feel safer letting the government violate your rights, but that isn't your -- or THEIR -- choice to make.
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)I'm just collecting data. Kind of a hobby of mine...
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Otherwise you might be mistaken for a shit stirring troll. Wouldn't want that to happen. But don't worry, if you haven't done anything wrong, you won't get tombstoned. Or some variation of the same.
NSA isn't really spying! Thank you for my morning laugh. Have you considered stand up comedy? There might just be a future for you.
Now, this is the sit back and listen portion of our discussion. In other words, I'm going to teach you and you are going to shut up and listen. The NSA has always been spying. When they started focusing so closely on our own citizenry is the question being discussed. Kind of like Watergate - who knew and when did they know? You know about Watergate, right?
Hmmm, your post doesn't give me enough information to know if you are a high information or low information person. So, I guess I'll go with the lowest common denominator. Back in the early 70's, the President at the time (Nixon) was becoming increasingly paranoid and had some of his colleagues bug his "enemies", except that they got caught. It was a big scandal and that President had to resign because he was going to be impeached and possibly imprisoned. No worries, though, his VP pardoned him immediately. Anyway, enough of the past.
Let's head forward into another administration. It was the GW Bush Administration. They made Nixon look like a choirboy. That's when the domestic data sweeping began. Now, were the NSA spying on Americans before that? Of course they were, but this was all new! An opportunity to gather every bit of stuff electronically transmitted. That part is not secret. Well, it was supposed to be but that administration was so inept, it had to come out. It was called TIA or Total Information Awareness. Remember when we found out that AT&T had a back room where they were storing all of our calls, both outside and inside the US? 2006 was when we found out about that one.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/2013/06/07/u-s-never-really-ended-creepy-total-information-awareness-program/
The American people made a big stink about it and supposedly they closed the program. I didn't believe they did, but notice, I say believe, rather than know. But the revelations of last week support my belief. Sure, its name is changed (because that makes it all better - ask PNAC. Don't know PNAC? Google them) but its intent and purpose is the same, blanket surveillance (spying) on the American people.
Now, your last sentence is also a really, really funny one. Whether the NSA was or was not stopping terrorist attacks has nothing to do with the attendance numbers of the Senators because you see, they aren't actually as Godlike and omniscient as you've made them out to be. They are, for the most part, fully compromised politicians who only care about getting elected for whatever strange reasons they have. Most of them have no interest in governing, so why they picked public service is beyond me.
Let's go on another tangent, shall we? Public servant. Interesting phrase. Let's take it apart. Public = us, We The People. Servant = one who serves, in this case, one who serves us, We The People.
So why in the world did I just go on a long spiel responding to someone who likely won't be here to see it? No reason except the tiny, tiny chance that you aren't a troll and actually can use some of this information. This is the stuff you need to seek out and read. Don't respond or argue, just read and think. If you do that enough, I'll be congratulating you in a few years on your 1000th post and you will be far more educated in politics than many if not most of your fellow Americans.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)I'd like to hear the reasons. Perhaps some really had an overriding reason to miss, but I'd like to hear it.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)You didn't expect them to do their jobs did ya?
BenzoDia
(1,010 posts)Even if some of the missing bad been briefed before.
TakeALeftTurn
(316 posts).
VPStoltz
(1,295 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)Oh,right. It's BOTH of them.
Response to kpete (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Do they always have this kind of attendance? I don't think this one instance should be used to claim they don't know what they are doing at all times. Showing lack of enthusiasm sounds like a jumped to conclusion.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)-snip-
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) made a point of recessing the Senate for an hour on Thursday, saying it was so no one would have an excuse for missing the briefing.
-snip-
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/15/senators-skip-nsa-briefing_n_3446446.html
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 15, 2013, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)
also they said that some Senators in the past have said that they don't go to the briefings because they are afraid that they might let something that is classified slip out when they are talking in the future.
That's some crazy shit!
Edited to fix typo.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)Give a general briefing to Congress, and you might as well call a news-conference and show a video, and follow up with full texts from the Printing Office and posts on You-Tube....
"Any three people can keep a secret, providing two of them are dead."
maxrandb
(15,324 posts)will be the first to run to the cameras to tell you "we're just like Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia"
Hmmmmm...makes me wonder if this NSA issue is not quite "Big Brother" or "1984". Maybe, just maybe the point of this NSA outrage is to try to make sure the "wrong" people stay away from the polls in 2014.
You give un-checked power to folks like Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Pat Robertson and the Tea-vangelist, well, then you'd better start worrying about re-education camps.
michigandem58
(1,044 posts)n/t