Hasting's Death Needs Special Investigation

[RobertEarl]

So far it is being treated as nothing special.

But there certainly are reasons that Hasting's death requires a careful and independent and thorough investigation.

[Vinnie From Indy]

1. Have you not heard?

There are scads of DU'ers that have done put this baby to bed already. Nothing to see here!

Good post!

Cheers!

[RobertEarl]

4. Yes Vinnie

It really sucks to see so many here totally invested in quashing open minded thinking. They make DU suck.

[geek tragedy]

2. What kind of 'special investigation?'

Besides examining the car and doing a toxicology test, what else should they do?

[RobertEarl]

5. Really?

You can't think of any other things? That closed minded, are you?

[geek tragedy]

18. An investigation goes where the facts take it.

Where would the facts take your 'special investigation?'

If the examiniation of the car shows no tampering, and his toxicology comes back Jack Daniels, where does the investigation go from there?

[RobertEarl]

25. Now you're starting to think

Glad that I could help you open your mind a wee bit. I am gratified. I realize that were I so inclined, and had hours of time, we could probably move you another few steps. But I'm not, not with you, anyway. You're on your own.

[geek tragedy]

27. Um, those are the thoughts just about all of us had.

"Looks like an accident, pending confirmation of toxicology and other tests."

[HardTimes99]

40. Was Hastings' car being followed immediately prior to the accident? First question that comes to

mind, given the high rate of speed at which he was travelling when the accident happened.

I don't work in law enforcement and I have absolutely no idea how one would answer that question. But I think it needs to be asked.

[geek tragedy]

44. If it was going 60-100mph down that street, not likely and there's no way to

know in any event.

The witnesses who saw the car don't report another car coming behind it.

[HardTimes99]

48. I would say that the fact the car was going 60-100 mph suggests at least an outside

possibility that Hastings was fleeing someone or something (or perhaps thought he needed to flee).

Again, I offer it merely as a suggestion of a question that should be asked and answered.

[geek tragedy]

50. Not an outrageous suggestion.

The paradox of an investigation into his death would be that the only source of information would be his own records. So, the only way to expand an investigation beyond the physical and eyewitness testimony would be for the government to go through all of his phone records, emails, web history, etc.

Which is problematic for obvious reasons.

[HardTimes99]

52. True. I don't know who could investigate whose credentials are beyond reproach. The

FBI might have an axe to grind and Lord knows the LAPD has its own checkered past.

The other thing I wondered about in passing is whether Hastings might have attempted a 9-11 call. Now we're back to telecom phone records. Argh!

[geek tragedy]

57. 911 call would be government record, so no invasion of his records that way.

The reason I asked upthread what kind of 'special investigation' would take place is that, beyond the crime scene stuff, it would be the governmental agency given free access to his records with authorization to go on numerous fishing expeditions.

"Did you talk to Mr. Hastings? What did you talk about? Who knew about your conversations with him?"

Etc etc.

[zappaman]

45. Do you see a car following him in this video?

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/06/michael_hastings_red_light_video_speeding.php

Witnesses didn't report a car following him either.

Does that answer your question?

[HardTimes99]

51. Pretty much. Can't watch the video right now for technical reasons but will view it later on. I

like to know why people are speeding at such high speeds if I can. OTOH, I see a lot of assholes driving at excessive rates of speed in LA every day and to my knowledge none are fleeing from anyone

[zappaman]

54. And that particular street has lots of speeders...

and accidents.
A friend of mine used to live nearby and said residents were always trying to get speed bumps installed, but it is a major N/S thruway so the speeding continues.
Also, a great place for speed traps. Cops are always out there writing tickets.
Unfortunately, not at 4AM on a Sunday morning it seems...

[HardTimes99]

60. Sounds about right. Although a bit like closing the barn door, maybe now the city

will be moved to install speed bumps there. Not holding my breath. (The weird thing is I could have sworn I remembered there were speed bumps there, but it's been quite awhile since I've been up that way.)

[zappaman]

67. Doubt it.

It's far from the only accident there.
You are definitely thinking of another street. Unfortunately, I drive Highland almost every day. Especially now that LaBrea has so much construction going on...

[HardTimes99]

71. Ugh. La Brea. Traffic jam central. I'm obviously experiencing some false memory syndrome and defer

to your recent first-hand experience.

[zappaman]

74. Trust me...

LaBrea is the worst it's ever been right now.
Side streets are my friend!

[HardTimes99]

78. I'm the kind of driver who invariably takes Sepulveda or Centinela to avoid

the 405, so I know whereof you speak (about side streets). (BTW: avoid the 405 exits\entrances onto Santa Monica Boulevard in Westwood if at all possible. That is a friggin' Blade Runner scene come to life.)

[zappaman]

80. No kidding.

I always avoid the 405, but lately it's been such a clusterfuck on every surrounding street with that neverending construction, I just don't go to the valley at all!
And yeah, I have heard the stories about that entrance...

[pnwmom]

58. I read an account of a witness who said the car blew by her, making her own car shake

as it sat at an intersection. She watched it fly down the street and then explode. She didn't mention anything about seeing any other car involved.

[HardTimes99]

64. Yes, from what I've seen and read, no one has alleged any other cars following Hastings'. IOW,

a tragic accident and nothing more.

[sabrina 1]

79. And what if his toxicology comes back clean? And what if his wife and other family members have

some reasons to believe that they know why he was, as some have already stated, very concerned about the surveillance he was under?? Who would you believe then, them or the FBI?

We'll see, but much as people would like to put the whole tragedy to rest, unfortunately that isn't likely to happen, whether it is warranted or not. And the reason is that so many Americans have lost trust in their government and when a reporter who fearlessly reported facts that were inconvenient to the government, and we have leaks that reveal massive surveillance programs (the largest in history according to some analysts), a lot of people will need more than the world of the 'authorities' that there is nothing to worry about, rightly or wrongly.

[geek tragedy]

92. If they have suspicions and evidence, I'm sure they'll share them. nt

[pnwmom]

99. If neither his toxicology report nor his autopsy can explain what happened

then further investigation would clearly be warranted.

[chimpymustgo]

101. It's a kick in the gut. Hearing the horrible news. A visceral reaction of pain and fear and knowing.

How can we ever really KNOW the truth in the world we now live in?

[sabrina 1]

103. Exactly, that is the point, few people trust their government anymore. And there are very legitimate

reasons for that. And nothing anyone says here can change the decades of built up mistrust that people feel. That is the price they pay for the myriad of lies that have been told to the people. And then they try to blame the people.

I have no idea what caused this terrible accident, it is likely that is what it was, but I would be lying if I said I wasn't open to it being more than just an accident. There was a time when I could not entertain such thoughts about our government, but I was very naive back then.

[Cooley Hurd]

10. They should look thru correspondences, follow up on death threats rec'd before the crash...

...a myriad of things. This needs to be treated as something special because of his occupation and his high profile. He pissed off VERY powerful people. They need to not Michael Connell this investigation....

[HooptieWagon]

16. If there is no evidence outside forces caused the crash...

...then isn't investigating death threats a waste of resources?
If there is evidence of outside forces causing the crash, then there is no reason to believe the case wouldn't be turned over to homicide division, and death threats investigated.

[geek tragedy]

19. Think this through. You want the GOVERNMENT to get access to his email correspondence

as part of this investigation?

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Well if the LAPD or FBI investigates, people will just say they are sham investigations

Who do you think should investigate?

[Rex]

7. The Texas Rangers.

nt.

[RobertEarl]

8. FBI

Hastings had many inside sources. Do you really think the FBI ignored that fact?

[Cali_Democrat]

12. and if the FBI investigates and says there is no foul play

will that satisfy you?

[RobertEarl]

15. I look at it this way

When the FBI investigates the Bush crimes then can I really trust the FBI.

[Life Long Dem]

49. And in the next sentence they'll say

Trust the Government and stop outsourcing to private companies like Booz Allen Hamilton.

[zappaman]

6. You should investigate it.

That way we will know it's on the up and up.
BeFree to investigate and let us know!

[FSogol]

9. Alcoa can investigate it!

[Tarheel_Dem]

11. We really are through the looking glass now. This is why "D" will always be "U". CT's suck!

[RobertEarl]

14. DU is usually a great place

But when the closed minded people invade and just throw crap, it sucks.

Open minded discussions about current issues and situations is what draws me to DU. What about you, Tarheel? What makes you keep coming back?

As for conspiracy theories, no cop worth his badge would ever discount a conspiracy until proven otherwise.

[dkf]

23. Look at the CT that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was involved in his best friend's murder.

Or even the CT that the government was acquiring all this data.

Before there was evidence, these were CTs.

[geek tragedy]

30. Those aren't conspiracy theories.

1) a lowlife thug terrorist being involved in another murder is a mundane suggestion;
2) everyone knew the government was vacuuming up a bunch of data.

[dkf]

37. And the idea that the government is collecting all the data from fiber optic cables?

Is that a CT or does everyone know that?

[geek tragedy]

39. Stellar Wind, Echelon, etc. I don't think anyone was really surprised.

If it's electronic and passes through US territory, the feds are likely going to be able to access it.

[dkf]

47. Glad to see its in the "common knowledge" arena.

[DevonRex]

59. Dude, I can name programs that go way back. Echelon. Shamrock. Minaret.

The supposedly new one NUCLEON, is on job qualifications lists posted online. So are others you haven't heard of, but I have and so have others.

[dkf]

61. Seems obvious to some, while others won't acknowledge it til they see the TS doc.

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. Ummm. Okay?

[zappaman]

28. Ha!

I say BeFree to let your freak flag fly high!!!

[Tarheel_Dem]

32. !!!

[HooptieWagon]

13. I've seen no evidence that local law enforcement isn't conducting a thorough investigation.

Perhaps wait until its done and made public, before requesting a special investigation?

[RobertEarl]

17. Oh, you want to wait?

That is not how a proper investigation is performed. What if all the cops did that? Why, that would be like how the FBI investigated their bosses, the Bush family back in 2001.

[HooptieWagon]

29. I don't see why a special investigation should be started before accident investigation is completed

No physical evidence so far this is a homicide case. So no need for accident investigators to be investigating death threats...that isn't their job. If any evidence surfaces of this being a homicide case, then I'm quite sure homicide detectives will be brought in.
Investigating the threats themselves is a separate issue, unless there is evidence of this being a homicide. Did Hastings report the death threats to police or FBI? Is there already an on-going investigation into them? If so, then it doesn't seem to be efficient to combine the two, let alone add another, unless evidence arises that would compel such action.

If there is reason to believe either accident investigators or death threat investigators have been not thorough, or acted improperly, then a special investigation is warranted. But that determination can't be made if current investigations are still on'going. Hell, its only been a couple days so far...

[RobertEarl]

38. Thanks, hooptie

For introducing the evidence of death threats.

I wonder if the FBI is looking into those threats? Those threats could have come from across state lines, making FBI action actionable.

See, when we have open discussions about matters, new people can feel comfortable introducing other factors, like you have here. Very good work, hooptie.

Who was it that made those threats? That is a damn good question, eh?

[HooptieWagon]

65. Well, he told people he got death threats.

I don't know if he reported them to police or FBI, or the status of any possible investigation of them.
Still, the point remains that traffic accident invedtigators aren't equiped or trained to investigate death threats. If any evidence shows up this is a homicide case (accident investigators are equipped and trained to determine that) then the case will be turned over to homicide detectives, who will investigate the threats.

[NightWatcher]

20. But but the Speculation Squad knows it's a CONSPIRACY

[RobertEarl]

21. Like I say, above

DU is usually a great place

But when the closed minded people invade and just throw crap, it sucks.

Open minded discussions about current issues and situations is what draws me to DU. What about you, NightWatcher? What makes you keep coming back?

As for conspiracy theories, no cop worth his badge would ever discount a conspiracy until proven otherwise.

[The Magistrate]

41. Who Is Invading, Sir?

You have been here about two years. The people disagreeing with you here, whom you refer to as people invading the place, seem to mostly have been here seven or eight or nine years. They would be within their rights to paraphrase your little schtick as:

"DU is usually a great place, but when credulous people invade and just throw crap, it sucks."

[SidDithers]

62. The poster has been here much longer than 2 years...

They were BeFree until shortly after DU3 went live, then abandoned that account and became Robert Earl.

Sid

[zappaman]

68. !!!

Who knew?

[SidDithers]

76. Hehe...

No problem with that. There's no mechanism to change your screen name, other than abandoning an old account and starting a new one.

And there was only about 6 weeks or so when they were using both accounts.



Sid

[Tarheel_Dem]

81. Thank You Sir!!!!

[Eddie Haskell]

77. Ridicule is not an argument, it's an attempt to silence those who raise questions.

Given the scandals were seeing, I think all possible efforts should be made to identify the cause of this accident and placate our concerns. We know they've lied to us, why should we trust them about this or anything else.

[Catherina]

36. The LAPD already declared there's nothing to see here

I'm not glued to this story because there's so much going on but do you know of any further investigations? Thanks

[zappaman]

43. No they haven't.

They investigation is not finished.
Why do you think it is?

[flamingdem]

72. It's just beginning

they won't get toxicology reports for at least 3 weeks

For sure they know the public will be all over this so it will be a careful investigation I think and we're libruls in dis town hir

[HooptieWagon]

55. I have no idea if death threats are being investigated, or if Hastings even reported them

And I can't see a second accident investigation being started before the first is complete, nor homicide div being called in without any evidence this is a homicide case.

[Cleita]

22. Not to worry. This man was surrounded by journalists, good ones.

Even if the police and other authorities do a botched job, or attempt a cover up, you can be sure there will be some very high level, and highly efficient investigative reporters on the job. So anyone in the government who is involved in this investigation should realize that they had better do the best and most thorough job that they can. Everything they do and write down about it will be picked apart by some of the best journalists in the business. Mark my words.

[RobertEarl]

31. Agreed, Cleita

And that is part of the special investigation called for in my OP. I am sure they are already on the case. They will not sit around and wait for the ordinary investigation to tell them exactly how this happened.

Thanks for backing me up, Cleita.

[pnwmom]

24. Why not wait for the autopsy and toxicology reports before deciding that?

If the autopsy shows he died of a heart attack or that his blood alcohol was very high, I wouldn't see the need for a special investigation.

[HooptieWagon]

34. For once, I agree with you. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

35. Honestly, even if toxicology says he was boozing or on drugs

people will say somebody drugged him or the coroner's report is falsified.

[RobertEarl]

42. You are proposing a CT?

I thought you hated thinking of CT, yet here you are with your own special CT? ""...people will say....""

Dude, your flip-flopping is like looking at a fish out of water.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. Why? Absence of evidence of foul play would just prove a cover-up to the CTers.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

53. Aah, but thats where you are wrong

An absence of evidence IS evidence in itself, thus its perfectly logical to conclude foul play

[GeorgeGist]

46. "I'm worried about all the unaccountable S.O.B.s who'll never have to worry about Michael Hastings"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/06/19/_i_m_asking_you_a_question_that_s_my_job_michael_hastings_r_i_p.html

[deurbano]

56. I understand your concern. As another poster said, I believe his friends will make sure...

the investigation is thorough, even if they have to do it, themselves.

<<LOS ANGELES (KTLA) — The crash that killed journalist Michael Hastings was ruled an accident by police, but conspiracy theories continued to circulate on Friday....

...Staff Sgt. Joseph Biggs told KTLA that he received an email from Hastings on Monday.

Biggs had known Hastings since 2008, when the journalist was embedded in his unit in Afghanistan.

“On Monday morning, I woke up and I got an email, and it’s very panicked,” Biggs said.

He was blind-copied on the email, which was sent to Hastings’ colleagues.

In part, it said that the feds were interviewing his close friends and associates, and that he was onto a big story and needed to get off the radar.

The FBI has denied that Hastings was ever under investigation.

“It alarmed me very much,” Biggs said. “I just said it doesn’t seem like him. I don’t know, I just had this gut feeling and it just really bothered me,” he said.

The email was sent just before 1 p.m. on Monday, 15 hours before the deadly crash....

....Biggs said he just wants to know the truth about what happened to his friend.

“I’m going to be willing to help and do whatever I can and make sure that people look into this story and make sure they find out whatever happened.”>>



Read more: http://ktla.com/2013/06/21/exclusive-hastings-sent-colleagues-email-hours-before-crash/#ixzz2WtN3qR8P

Also: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-hastings-crash-emails-20130621,0,2806628.story

[RobertEarl]

66. Thanks for that, deurbano

That is a new piece of evidence, for me anyway.

This is what I love about DU, we can sit and discuss things and bring new items to everyone's attention.

[Tarheel_Dem]

86. So Hastings' paranoia is cause for wild speculation? Hey, maybe Jill Kelley did it.

[zappaman]

88. Hold on a second!

Is that his car?
What is she doing there???
And what is in her hand???

You sir, may have solved this mystery!

[Tarheel_Dem]

89. Hey, it's as good a theory as others I've heard round these parts. I thought I'd join in the fun.

Some dude with a history of alcohol and drug abuse gets killed in a tragic car crash. Happens all the time. Why is this guy any different than the many others?

Oh, and did you hear that the Obama adminstration gave Breitbart a heart attack? It must be true, cuz some dude wrote it on the internet.
Here's his picture.

[msanthrope]

91. I say it was Hillary Clinton. Hastings had Ambassador Steven's diary at Benghazi and

obviously, knew too much.


You watch--it was the Clintons, for sure. Darrell Issa should investigate.

[Tarheel_Dem]

97. Nuh uh. It was Colonel Mustard in the Libra....oh wait, that's a different CT. They're coming fast

& furious. I can't keep 'em...straight.

[deurbano]

94. Was that a response to my post? (What did I wildly speculate?)

My point was to convey to the OP that I believe Hasting's death will be thoroughly investigated, because his friends will make sure of that. I was reiterating what another poster had written, while linking to a article in which one of Hasting's friends confirmed that... and also revealed a disturbing email he had received from Hastings prior to his death.

I have not speculated about whether there was foul play. On the other hand, you seem to have concluded Hastings was suffering from paranoia. (And maybe he was, but at this point, that is also speculation.)

[Tarheel_Dem]

98. You're exactly right!

[Itchinjim]

63. Jesus, how did I miss you?

82....

[HardTimes99]

69. IIRC, one of MacChrystal's aides emailed a death threat to Hastings. If true, that's a lead

that needs to be pursued and eliminated (and the staffer who made the threat busted down to buck private and sent to do a tour at Ft. Leavenworth busting up rocks).

BTW, I've been interacting with a couple people up thread but wanted to tell you that I commend your interest in this case. The best citizens are those who ask questions and don't give up easily.

Here's one question for you; what set of facts or evidence will it take to satisfy you that Hastings' death was a tragic accident? Is there any set of facts that would do so?

[Cleita]

82. I have a question and there seems to be no answers to date. What was Hastings doing

before he died? If he was clubbing, the bars close at 2:00 AM in LA and actually you have a hard time getting a drink after 1:30 PM. So at that time many club goers go to breakfast, which could keep him out until 4:00 AM, but that would have sobered him up some so he would have been able to drive. If he wasn't clubbing, what the heck was he doing out at 4:00 AM and speeding around town like Bat Man? Another possibility is that he was at a private party, so why haven't there been any videos or tweets from people who saw him like usually happens after an incident with a somewhat well known personality? There are some really unanswered questions here.

[HardTimes99]

90. All good and important questions that need to be asked, if some or most of them

never are answered definitively. I've read somewhere (long since forgotten) that most homicide and suicide investigations leave at least one or two threads, unanswered questions where things just 'don't add up' neatly and conveniently. I suppose that would account for all of your questions. Maybe. But I hope Hastings' colleagues keep the lights on high, as it were, to make sure we get answers to as many questions as possible.

[RobertEarl]

83. Thanks, HardTimes

First, it really doesn't matter what I think. Except that the man was in a place that I sometimes wished I could be. That would be: busting balls of the elite.

He was an investigator of the highest caliber, and I think he would want a high caliber investigation, if for nothing else than to prove that the elites of whose balls he busted, did not murder him.

[flamingdem]

70. Watch for what his family and friends say

If they don't claim conspiracy then either they're keeping it hushed up while they get their own investigation going or they know he was a reckless driver / drinker / drugger and just hope the autopsy doesn't prove it.

We'll know the score on this one long run I imagine.

Remember that there are things like Life Insurance and Car Insurance that play into the family remarks as well. But no mention of conspiracy says to me they know who his is and don't think what happened is impossible.

My guess is he was in and out of consciousness on drink / drugs but I'm willing to believe anything if there's enough evidence.

[elfin]

73. Don't rule out suicide if car checks out

Just a suggestion based on knowing two young men who were creative, smart and ambitious to make a real difference in their respective fields - education and creative writing.

Both were hitting slowdowns in their goals and feeling that superiors did not totally support them. Both were well liked. Both hit a tree at high speed, driving alone at night.

No final explanation for either, but I was not the only one who wondered if they had been masking severe depression for some time.

[zappaman]

75. So true.

I had a girlfriend who's mother did that with a light pole.
Awful, but happens more than people think...

[Smarmie Doofus]

95. So *this* variety of *utterly* baseless speculation is completely plausible to you? n/t

[zappaman]

96. Possible plausible

Not likely though.
Just sharing that that scenario does happen and I know someone it happened to.
That a problem?

[Smarmie Doofus]

100. Definitely. DU needs a special forum for 'possible plausible'...

... theorists to share and compare fact-free, wild-eyed speculations so more discerning folks don't have to be annoyed by it.

[zappaman]

102. True.

That's where we could put all the "someone must have remote controlled his car/planted a bomb in his car/cut his brake lines/made his accelerator stick" possible plausible theories!

[Smarmie Doofus]

105. A link to that exact quote? Thanks. n/t

""someone must have remote controlled his car/planted a bomb in his car/cut his brake lines/made his accelerator stick"

[RobertEarl]

104. I got a name for that DU forum

Things that other countries do But Not The US

In it would could discuss what the mafia does.

But not what the CIA does, unuhh.

And not what we train some military to do. Nope.

Just keep it US clean, because we know the US never, ever, wouldn't dare.

[Cleita]

84. There is a possibility of hidden depression or guilt over his girlfriend who was killed in Iraq.

[RobertEarl]

87. If you want to venture into possibilities

There are many, many possible fields one could wander.

But that's not where I personally want to go. People would get upset and start pulling their hair out and calling me names. Heh.

I'm content with just making sure all fields of inquiry are walked by those whose business it is, and who we like to trust will cover all the bases before final conclusions are made.

[longship]

85. Indeed.

But as there are witnesses saying he was driving like a mad man, maybe he was just driving like a mad man.

As Monty Python might say, Stake Your Claim.

Sometimes people do dumb things, like running red lights at high rates of speed. It happens all the time in LA area.

William of Okham may have had something to say about this.

[Smarmie Doofus]

93. Affirmative. For reasons that don't need to be explained. K and R

[JI7]

106. we can get assange and greenwad to investigate ?

because how can we trust an investigation by those we say wanted him dead.