Those who would trade freedom for safety deserve neither

[arely staircase]

which, ironically, is exactly what Snowden seems to be doing with his whirlwind asylum tour of the world's most authoritarian nations.

[Daniel537]

1. Nice attempt at deflection.

But hey, i guess that's what you gotta do when sticking up for a regime that despises your right to privacy.

[arely staircase]

2. which regime is that? china or russia?

or has eddie made it to north korea yet?

[LWolf]

5. Now THAT's

about as anti-American as it gets.

[Buzz Clik]

10. Welcome to the DU Teaparty. "We hate the government. You don't? You're a traitor."

[treestar]

21. This is getting pretty funny

In the zeal to support Ed, many people are down on their country. Regimes like Russia and China, er, will do a lot more to invade their citizens' privacy. And it wouldn't even be subject to the courts. Reaching the heights of absurdity today is what I see from DU. Have you no limits on your dislike of the USA? What'll you do on July 4, cancel it and go to work? Or make it Ed Snowden day instead?

[JW2020]

25. Oh those crazy REDS!

They are everywhere! RED Manace! They're the enimies dontcha know?

[treestar]

30. The point was they do not have a bill of rights

and can make no claim to be better than us on any of those subjects. That ought to be obvious.

The right wing went overboard with the patriotism thing, saying we weren't patriots for failing to support Bush. But here was see an US Derangement syndrome that trips even my buttons. This is my country, after all. I do believe it to be a more just place than both China and Russia, communist or not (and neither of them really is right now)

[The Link]

3. I feel an axis of evil OP coming soon.

Man...desperation.

[arely staircase]

4. he is making the rounds

iran could be his next stop

[cali]

7. pathetic and desperate is no way to make an argument

[arely staircase]

11. i bet you don't even get the irony of your post

nt

[cali]

13. that would be because there is none

I actually use facts and evidence to make an argument. you should try it sometime!

[arely staircase]

15. see, you did it again

nt

[cali]

6. what's ironic is your posting this with what I assume is a straight face

first of all, what freedom would Snowden have in the U.S? He's clearly not trading safety for freedom by going to Venezuela. And frankly, I don't see Venezuela as more authoritarian than the good old U.S.

[treestar]

23. The right to counsel, the right to a speedy trial, the right to freedom of speech and religion

The right against self incrimination, due process of the law, equal protection of the law - yeah Russia and China are so much better. You guys are really going to jump the shark today.

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[GeorgeGist]

12. Putman?

Geesh the s------ is strong.

[cali]

14. bwahahahaha. you wish, hon.

He's already with the Venezuelan authorities in Russia.

sucks to be you.

[Buzz Clik]

9. LOL!

Nice twist. I was expecting something totally different.

[dawg]

16. Snowden traded his safety *and* his freedom in order to make information public.

Right or wrong, he was willing to make a huge sacrifice while the two of us sit on our asses and type about him.

[arely staircase]

17. yes, he made classified information available to the People's Republic of China

and his sacrifice will be (rightfully) huge.

[dawg]

22. What if it were 2002.

And the classified government information proved that the CIA knew Saddam did not possess weapons of mass destruction, and that a covert plan of disinformation had been put into place to sow seeds of uncertainty so the public would go along with the push for war.

Would he still be a traitor?

[arely staircase]

24. no

but if he told saddam how we were listening into his communications or observing his troop movements, yes.

[dawg]

26. Okay.

What if he leaked information to the French government about secret surveillance operations being performed on Socialist politicians in order to discredit their objections to the run-up to the Iraq War. Would disclosure of that hypothetical secret government operation be traitorous?

[arely staircase]

27. yes

leaking it to the American press, no. Still illegal, but not traitorous. The difference is the sharing of intel to foreign governments/entities.

[dawg]

28. But what if the foreign government has a newspaper subscription.

They get the information just the same. What is the difference?

[arely staircase]

29. ok, i take back the word traitorous

but still illegal, though probably morally justified, like Ellsberg and the pentagon papers. however the leaker, like any morally justified lawbreaker should be willing to face the legal consequences - that is just part of civil disobedience. I equate snowden's leak of the nsa snooping to Ellsberg. I consider his running off to china and giving them secrets to be traitorous. I was critical of his nsa leaks, but have reconsidered that part of his actions. I am glad this is now being debated in our country as it should have been six years ago.

you do the socratic method well, btw.

[Harmony Blue]

20. We have a winner

a high school dropout chose to take the harder path in his young, adult life. Sad so many can't see that.

[Harmony Blue]

19. Projection much?

[truebluegreen]

31. Who cares about Snowden?

[Jamaal510]

32. I'm probably crazy,

but I see kind of a flaw with that Benjamin Franklin phrase "those who would trade freedom for safety deserve neither" because when one gets right down to it, it is almost like saying, for example, that those of us who are willing to give up some gun rights for gun safety laws don't deserve to be safe. We, as humans, all deserve to live peaceful lives.