Thoreau went to jail. Gandhi went to jail. MLK went to jail. Snowden went to Hong Kong.

[11 Bravo]

I guess I just don't toss around the word "hero" as freely as some.

[WilliamPitt]

1. And lots of Vietnam War resistors went to Canada.

Want to rescind their good-guy cards, too? Should they have stayed and done the Federal jail time for acts of conscience?

Sorry, Bravo. I love you madly...but think about this one. I am very interested to hear your reply.

[11 Bravo]

5. I hear you, Will. On many levels I do admire Snowden, but like I said ...

I tend to be a little bit stingy in my use of the term "hero".

[WilliamPitt]

8. Fair enough.

I agree.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. In what way are your choices limited to calling him a hero or launching illogical and

dishonest attacks upon him and many other people who have avoided that which others see as the justice they should face. They say the Holy Family fled into Egypt, the cowards...

[Romulus Quirinus]

15. Not to mention that a few weeks in jail in Birmingham, Alabama,

as awful and and unjust as it was, probably doesn't compare to a lifetime of solitary confinement in Florence ADX.

[JI7]

28. MLK was risking his life and he did end up losing it

he knew about that risk also

[JI7]

27. nobody thought they were heroes, they didn't want to go to a war they openly opposed

[treestar]

29. Why not?

That might have ended the war a lot faster. The feds having to jail all of those people. Each one getting a soap box at the trial.

[rustydog]

45. I was eligible for the draft during Vietnam

I remember my mother being so upset over the anti-war crowd that would protest and then run and hide in Canada.

One time she said to me and my brothers: If you do not believe in the war, do not enlist and do not report if your draft number is called. But do NOT run away to Canada like a coward. If you truly believe it is wrong, then go to jail for your belief, don't run from it.

I believe she was correct in her belief. Ghandi went to jail, MLK and thousands of blacks went to jail for their beliefs. They didn't sit at a lunch counter then flee to Vancouver BC, they stayed and faced the consequences of their actions because they BELIEVED they were in the right.

Patrick Henry, anybody, anybody? "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country..."

If you believe in what you do, then stand up for it and take the consequences for your "heroic" actions.

[BumRushDaShow]

2. There ya go. n/t

[eShirl]

3. Reagan didn't go to jail. Cheney didn't go to jail. Nixon didn't go to jail.

But Charlie Manson did go to jail!

You have a strange standard for "heroes."

[bluestate10]

10. False equivalence on your part. The poster was referencing people that actually stood for

a principle and were willing to die for those principles. Funny that you would mention the names you did, Snowden is more like them, self righteous, fallow and unwilling to suffer one day for something he claims to believe in.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. The 'Holy Family' fled into Egypt to avoid their government.

If this is about 'who went to jail' and such, that's a fact. They ran and were expats. Bad? Good? Irrelevant? Yep, irrelevant.
Good people go to jail, good people flee, bad people go to jail, bad people flee. Which sort Snowden is has NOTHING to do with any of the issues at hand. Nothing. At all.
So he can be like Cheney or like Ellsberg or he could drop dead. The issues remain the same, good Snowden, bad Snowden, no Snowden. He's beside the entire point.

[CakeGrrl]

4. I'm still waiting to hear what his "heroics" revealed, heretofore unknown.

Did the documents he stole prove that the law was being broken?

Did the documents he stole prove that warrantless surveillance was taking place?

[Harmony Blue]

13. To answer your questions:

1. Yes
2. Yes

The Patriot Act doesn't even allow what the NSA has done. It's that bad.

[jazzimov]

17. Obviously, you haven't read the documents

because in both cases the answer is NO.

[Harmony Blue]

20. Watch this and get back to me

[MNBrewer]

21. If it's nothing new, it's not breaking the law, is it?

[Bluenorthwest]

6. Why equate him to any of those people in any way? It makes no sense at all.

It is absurd to suggest that the wrongful imprisonment of righteous people is what made them righteous. That they went to jail is bad, it is not redemptive of their actions it is damning of their governments.
Do you seriously suggest that being placed in jail makes Gandhi the Mahatma? King would have been diminished if not punished with prison? It is the injustice that makes them honorable not what they do but what is done to them?

[Puzzledtraveller]

7. um..what is,.. this isn't about Snowden?

yes, that's the answer Alex.

[Gregorian]

11. I wonder what America would look like had it not been for Daniel Ellsberg.

I'll let you connect the dots.

[zeeland]

12. Difference being

Snowden will never see the light of day once he's in U.S. custody.

Cute post buy silly comparison.

[Harmony Blue]

14. Snowden is a hero

because he sacrificed his selfish desires for selfless gains. That is the pinnacle of looking out for the common good for our democratic Republic.

[JaneyVee]

19. I'm not 100% convinced he's looking out for the common good of OUR democratic republic anymore

And avoiding the repercussions of his actions is pretty selfish.

[Harmony Blue]

35. If he intends to release more information

then his flight is a selfless act now that he is working with wikileaks.

[former9thward]

18. You don't toss around the word "hero"...

but you sure do toss around false analogies. None of the people you mentioned faced life in prison for their protests. Of those three Gandhi served the longest -- 2 years. Funny you don't mention Nelson Mandela. He did 27 years -- after being underground and captured by the S. African government.

[marions ghost]

36. +++

good point

[rustydog]

46. No they didn't, but they faced the maximum for the "crimes" they committed

And they had the "balls" to face those consequences.

This "hero" allegedly stood up for what he thought was righteous, committed what he knew would be considered a crime and then ran away to hide.

self preservation is not heroic.

[former9thward]

47. Nelson Mandela didn''t have the balls to face consequences?

An ugly thought as he is on his death bed.

[1-Old-Man]

22. What in hell has hero worship got to do with it?

[KoKo]

23. Basically you want Snowden to do "Epistles from the Federal Jail"

That would make you feel better?

[morningfog]

24. Don't call him a hero. It doesn't change what our government is doing.

[morningfog]

25. Does that mean if he does go to jail you will change course and call him a hero?

[Vinnie From Indy]

26. Larry Flint went to jail

So did Pee Wee Herman and Mel Gibson!

Cheers!

[Dash87]

44. "A Night at the Movies with PeeWee Herman"

A movie nobody wants to see.

[The Straight Story]

30. If they were alive today they would probably go to Gitmo

[backscatter712]

31. Bradley Manning got supermaxed. n/t

[20score]

32. .

[99Forever]

33. I haven't called anyone a hero..

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:25 PM - Edit history (1)

... and won't. But then I KNOW that all of this personality BULL SHIT is nothing but a purposeful distraction, DESIGNED to give cover to the very real CRIMINALS committing murder upon our Constitutionally guaranteed RIGHTS.

Anyone who can't see that isn't playing with a full deck.

[UTUSN]

34. R#4 & K for, EXcellent!1 n/t

[sibelian]

37. You've got to go to jail to be a hero?

Oh.

Oh, wait, yeah, totally! Cos that guy in Prison Break, the lead, he's a hero.

I think I get you. I think.

[randome]

38. It's even more ironic when you consider...

...that he said "I'm not here to hide from justice" from his 'undisclosed location' in Hong Kong.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[90-percent]

39. there's jail and then there's jail

Would you surrender yourself to the U.S. government knowing your fate would be like that of Bradley Manning, or perhaps even worse. Jail is one thing, months into years of torture at the hands of your government is another.

-90% Jimmy

[ZombieHorde]

40. If going to jail makes one a hero, then the US is a hero super factory.

Those men went to jail to raise awareness for their cause. They went to jail for braking "unjust laws." Snowden doesn't need to do that. The laws against leaks are not what he is acting against.

On a side note, Gandhi was a wife beater and MLK was an adulterer. Perhaps we just shouldn't have heroes.

[HiPointDem]

41. puke-worthy post.

[Taverner]

42. Snowden wouldn't be going to jail, though. He would disappear.

There is a big difference

[Downtown Hound]

43. None of those people were facing life. n/t