Nobody is listening to your Phone Calls, Dammit

[cthulu2016]

What is with the hysterics? Seriously. Nobody is listening to your phone calls.

It depends what the meaning of "is" is, and I thought we settled this back in the 1990s.

It's like this. Somebody comes in your house once a day to scan your latest diary page, but they don't have the time or the inclination to read it because your diary is b-o-r-i-n-g. Sorry. It's true. The diary page scans are just stuck in a storage drive somewhere

But then maybe a few years later somebody sets off a bomb. So the authorities call up his diaries and read them. That is surely germane to keeping us safe, right.

And say in his diary from a few years back he mentions that he went on a date with a Jane Smith who he felt was sympathetic to his religious convictions.

Now, if you are named Jane Smith and lived in the same city as the bomber, don't we have a right... no, an obligation to read your old diary entries to see if you went out with the bomber once?

Isn't that just basic common sense?

But how could we do that if we didn't have the scans of your diary? You see?

But the idea that somebody IS reading your diary is just silly. Nobody cares that much... not enough to get a rubber stamp warrant to do so.

The only people who should mind are terrorists. And people who have met terrorists... or have names similar to people who have met terrorists... or once got a wrong number from a terrorist...

And believe me, the NSA and FBI aren't just snooping for the fun of it. But if you said something unkind about a former president in your diary a few years back, and then they had to read that diary because maybe it was connected to something or not, are they supposed to just forget that you hated the President? It is only common sense to flag that datum on your file.

But without a record of your diary (that nobody ever ever looks at, of course) how could they have gotten this vital information when it was needed?

But that doesn't mean someone is READING it. Today.

[Jenoch]

1. "Nobody is listening to your Phone Calls, Dammit"

Especially when I call my kids.

[BeyondGeography]

2. That's what Obama said

And being a pro-authoritarian Administration lackey, I believe him.

[1-Old-Man]

3. If your name comes up in some secret algorithm you can bet your butt someone will be

Someone calls someone who calls someone and then you get a call and all of a sudden what makes you so sure nobody is listening?

[aquart]

17. So how many agents would they have to hire to police all us smart-mouthed dissidents?

Algorithms only go so far.

I'll take every jobs program we can get.

[bobduca]

20. hey you mean get paid for what you already do?

[Warren Stupidity]

4. thank you for getting it and for reframing this so well. k&r!

[DontTreadOnMe]

5. Simple math

So how many phone calls do you make per day?

How many people are there i the US?

How many people does it take to actually go back and listen to all those calls?

... I have no problem with all my calls being recorded... because I KNOW that they will NEVER BE LISTENED TO!

But if the NSA system stops even one terrorist, it is worth it. Especially since in live in work in the New York City area, and knew many people who died on 911.

And I don't mind waiting in the TSA line and required to take my shoes off at airports either.

So quit your whining and bitching about "your freedoms" in your cellphone diary.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

6. You're free to give your freedoms up if you want. You're not free to compel others to do so.

You shouldn't be so afraid of terrorists. They're not very likely to actually, you know, tread on you.

[truebluegreen]

33. +1

[DontTreadOnMe]

34. The way it works in THIS country is we vote for politicians...

who then pass laws. I like having laws.. the can be changed if needed. Or you can whine about it on internet threads... the choice is yours.

My hair is not on fire. And I like the country I live in. I am neither manic depressed or hair on fire paranoid.

Would you like to read my diary?

I see you are totally disgusted with that process, so you might as well just leave California... and the United States.

[marions ghost]

8. "You know they will never be listened to"

...OK so then, let's don't keep them on file, how about it. That is the ONLY way to be sure.

[mhatrw]

16. I say we should all have to take daily polygraph tests to PROVE that we are not terrorists!

I say we should all have to deliver to the NSA our genetic codes, our physical and mental health histories, our credits reports, our credit card statements, a full GPS report of all of our whereabouts and all of our computer passwords on a monthly basis as well.

Because if any of this stops even one terrorist, it is worth it.

[msongs]

7. tracking every call you make, to whom, for how long, and when is NOT spying dammit ->

it is legal spying...

[FreakinDJ]

9. Now click your heels and say that 3 times Dorthy

And the All Powerful Wizard will take you home

[Marrah_G]

10. Thank you for sharing your feelings on personal privacy.

[musiclawyer]

11. Stupid post.

And this poster wants a camcorder with a live mic running in his living room ever time he enters the room. Same thing. Seizure without search is still against the constitution. Most a DU has drank the Kool aid it appears. The county is terminal when educated grown up people think unaccountable ubiquitous domestic surveillance is ok.

[dkf]

29. He is explaining why this can come back to bite you even if they aren't listening right at this min

[Hissyspit]

31. Re-read.

[Ms. Toad]

12. Wow.

I sure hope you forgot the tag.

If not, do you really think it is just fine for the government to capture and store your most intimate thoughts on the off chance that you might someday commit a crime? 1984 is supposed to be satire, not the description of a governmental behavior which anyone who calls themselves a progressive would even think of trying to justify.

[The Straight Story]

13. If they are listening to my calls they better pay half of the $1.99/minute

Since they were probably enjoying it as well.

[Uncle Joe]

14. They don't have to listen to them, just keeping the records violates the 4th Amendment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it. The Fourth Amendment applies to the states by way of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Text

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[1]"

Now considering that "papers" were the primary form of communications and records of the day, it's easy to transfer this designation to today's phone calls and internet queries. Your phone calls and internet history are your papers, and the storing of them is De Facto "seizing them."

The government should have no right to violate the 4th Amendment and the mere storage of that information does so.

Furthermore today's "terrorist" can quite easily be tomorrow's political opposition, this supposed right of the government to vacuum the people's communications and information for possible future use is nothing but a Pandora's Box but there little chance of hope coming out should this stand.

Thanks for the thread, cthulu.

[Major Nikon]

19. The government had similar access back then

When you mailed a letter the address revealed who you were sending it to and the return address revealed where it came from. Not only that, people actually handed their letters to the government for delivery. The government was forbidden from opening the letter and reading the contents, but the metadata was fair game.

[Uncle Joe]

21. Not true, the government didn't "store" those addresses and return addresses for potential future

use against the mailer or recipient.

They didn't vacuum every American's address and return address to be potentially used against them.

P.S. Had they done so, I have no doubt the American People would've been far more hesitant about trusting the Post Office much less government in general.

[Major Nikon]

22. In many cases, I'm sure they did

Regardless nobody had any expectation of privacy as far as the metadata goes, just the contents contained within.

The difference today is that people happily trust that data to non-governmental providers who routinely can and do farm and sell that data for commercial purposes, yet they go ape-shit if the government does so for security reasons.

[Uncle Joe]

23. They never did unless they had a court order.

As for meta data, people never expected government to collect their mailing and or phone call meta data until George W Bush and now Obama came along.

As to non-governmental entities, they supposedly don't govern the American People, they don't swear to defend the Constitution of the United States, non governmental providers are business oriented not potentially punitive or marshall over the people.

Government as the peoples' elected representative and writer of law is supposed to be the sword and shield for the people against any abuse of by these non-governmental providers.

There is little to no recourse when government turns antagonistic against its' own citizenry criminalizing the people, judging them guilty until proven innocent and forever gathering evidence for when the occasion warrants.

Joe McCarthy ruined countless lives and careers in the name of "national security," he spawned or inspired the likes of Nixon, let there be no doubt, this system of vacuuming up everyone's personal meta data will only serve to empower any future McCarthy/Nixon/Hoover with mega steroids.

[Major Nikon]

24. A court order isn't required when there is no expectation of privacy

The government can and does go through garbage if it's left on the curb.

[Uncle Joe]

25. There has never been an expectation of meta data collected and stored.

Looking at an address or return address for delivery is one thing having that stored by the government for potential use, misuse and guilt by association is another.

Furthermore mail is not garbage unless it's thrown away by the recipient, mail has personal and monetary value if nothing else by the postage paid for delivery.

Maybe you can point me to some law stating that interfering with someone's garbage to be a felony, but I doubt it, certainly not at the mass level.

P.S. If someone has an expectation of garbage invasion, they can shred their garbage or even burn it, you can't do that with mail and expect it to reach its' destination.

[Major Nikon]

27. It was your assertion that the government can't store metadata without a court order

If we want to go down the road of providing proof, perhaps that would be a good place to start.

[Uncle Joe]

28. My assertion is, this has never come up before until George W Bush and Obama

came to power.

My further assertion is, this shouldn't be legal, at the very least it violates the spirit if not the intent of the 4th Amendment, which is clearly spelled in my first post on this thread.

[Major Nikon]

30. "They never did unless they had a court order"

[Uncle Joe]

32. Can you prove that they did without a court order except for maybe when Bush was in power?

"Not true, the government didn't "store" those addresses and return addresses for potential future

use against the mailer or recipient.

They didn't vacuum every American's address and return address to be potentially used against them."

[Dr Fate]

15. I also trust corporate owned politicans, corporate owned government and corporate media too.

I mean, if there are 3 things I should put my trust and faith in, those certainly top the list.

Then again, I'm not some radical liberal- I am a sensible centrist.

[ohheckyeah]

18. You're probably correct...

why listen when you can read them, since you can read faster. Ever heard of voice to text software? It's much easier to search text than audio.

[markiv]

26. they're marking the GPS location of every call you make

you basically have a duck band around your leg