General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo I Walked In To A Fast Food Place...and???
So I walk in to the local national fast food establishment that opened in the town for less than 4 years and see a sign with a master plan look to it with visuals of a remodel that they are slated to start next month.
The visuals are beautiful. They are going to put a new coat of paint on the walls, change out the moldings, new floor tile, remodeled restrooms,revamped restrooms and a new exterior paint scheme.
So the manager is taking my order and I ask him, so how much is this going to cost... around 200K. I asked him are sales down? he said no in fact we were up almost 50% over our sales from 2011 so then I asked other than the state mandates on min wage when was the last time you gave a token raise to the employees... he said he did not remember, he said its hard to give raises because they cant afford it most of the time. So I said you are beating sales records, spending 200K on a remodel and you are telling me you cant give your employees even a 50 cent raise? above state min wage.
He just took my order and said he could not talk about it any more.
Just makes you wonder how new tile floor translates into adding spendable income that ultimately benefits the community. I wonder what another $1.00 an hour would do to moral that would lead to a better customer experience leading to potentially better sales which would result in more spending in the community making it better for all.
It's a shame that corporations wont invest in to their employees.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)You say a number and some instructions give them money, and they give you something close to what you ordered, change close to what it should be and you leave. Hardly a lasting experience.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Seems so long ago, now.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)that most of us still are and it's just a loud mouth few that make it seem other wise.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)to the Snowden leaks, to Greenwald's writing, to posters here taking exception to authoritarian policy.
It's all vitriol with no real substance.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)they have nothing.
rsmith6621
(6,942 posts)...if they were paid a little more you would get what you ordered and get the correct change every time.
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)concerned with either of those having to be exact.
So you are fine getting the wrong order and getting less money back then you should. Do you not complain when these things occur?
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)thirty cents or dollar. And as long as what I get is close enough to what I ordered, what do I care?
frylock
(34,825 posts)RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)
MattSh
(3,714 posts)Here's the big questions.
Do they get paid sick leave? Do they have any kind of health insurance? Or do they come in sick because they really need the full paycheck without being docked for a day off?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)
Silent3
(15,281 posts)Not that I eat fast food much these days, but even those few times that I do, I'm not going to literally swallow an extra 100+ calories that I don't want or need just to be easy going and not make a fuss.
If I get pickles that I don't want, fine, I'll just peel those off, but mayo or other sauces, that ruins the food for me.
I'm polite about it, I do think about the fact that it's a crummy job and I'm sure I'd make mistakes now and then myself if I had to do it, but I still ask for my order to be fixed... at least if I haven't driven away too far before I find out, and it's too late.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)I place my order from my car at the outdoor order station. I state please be sure you include ketchup packets with my french fries. I proceed to the next window to pay for and pick up my order. I ask the employee - did you include ketchup packets with my fries? Answer, Oh, yes. I drive away and park in a far, shady corner to eat my meal IN MY CAR. No ketchup. Meanwhile there are four more cars in line to place orders. That would take too long to line up behind them, so I drive all the way back to the main entrance, park my car, walk into the restaurant, wait until the person in front finishes accepting payments from other customers, and then ask for my ketchup! Of course, during all that time my meal is now cold. French fries without ketchup are pretty damn bland. Cold french fries with ketchup are even worse.
This is an example of an order not being close enough!
auntsue
(277 posts)when my order is wrong at the drive thru I call. Almost always they take my name and tell me to bring the receipt back in the next couple of days...and I get a free what ever they screwed up! They put sausage in my breakfast sandwich that was supposed to be bacon. not really a big deal ............. but free sandwiches are so yummy!
Lex
(34,108 posts)Well known stirrer. His OPs are the same. Just bait.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)great pay. Look at how many in their state are living off of it. Well, that and food stamps, WIC, Section 8, Medicaid.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)You must be in heaven at Walmart.
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)I want what I order and I want to pay what they say it costs.
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)
OnlinePoker
(5,727 posts)However, if they charge $5 for a $4.50 meal in error, they have no right to the money. Unless it's specifically labelled as a tip, the employee can't just pocket the difference out of the till.
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)mistake in what they charge or a mistake in what they give you. I'm saying as long as both are close enough, people don't care about that. And I'm not saying anything about what people are paid. I'm talking about the OP's demand for how they are served by people.
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)If I get the wrong change by mistake and don't notice it until later, I'm not going to waste my time by going back. I won't get upset if it was an accident. If I feel that it is the company's practice to intentionally charge more than listed, then yes that will tick me off. I don't care what the amount is. It's a dishonest practice. That extra money isn't going the employees, it's going into the owner's pocket.
I get more upset when my order is wrong, wrong items/toppings, wrong dressing, missing items. etc. etc. I would rather be accidentally charged more and have my order right.
mwooldri
(10,303 posts)I'll ensure the figures are "close enough". Either way, you'll pay the IRS more, or the IRS will be billing you for what they think you owe.
I get your point in the harm done by a fast-food outlet incorrectly fulfilling your order is relatively "low". The bottom line here is accuracy. I would like it if fast-food restauranteurs paid their staff a decent wage but employee pay generally does not co-relate to accuracy. As an end-consumer, I want things to be done right and done right the first time.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)... and will continue to take humans out of the system as much as possible, thus lowering the skills requirements and justification for more pay and not increasing it.
The systems are moving towards touch screen w/ pictures and automatic change distribution. Frankly, the humans will be out of the system entirely in our lifetime.
$1,000,000 in research that results in a .1% increase in efficiency will be paid back much quicker than an enduring $.50 raise to thousands of employees.
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)sharing of that insight into what we can extrapolate about the impact of technology on the workforce.
To me, that boils down to the thorny, but increasingly glaring issue of adaptation to the reduction of the need for various forms of labor and service and the distribution of wealth in general. That's nothing new and I don't want to wax Marxist on the topic, but taking that bull by the horns, (for we who are not the 1%) is becoming more palpable and represents a crux in the current understanding we have.
Thanks.
Warpy
(111,359 posts)Paying the help starvation wages means high turnover, high paperwork costs, and high training costs for new hires all the time.
If it's worth having line cooks in the back and a cash register/order person at the front, it's worth paying them enough for nutritious food, safe housing, routine medical care, and everything else an employee needs in order to live.
These pricks have gotten a free ride on the backs of desperate people since the late 70s. It's time to make them pony up.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)
Dark n Stormy Knight
(9,771 posts)raccoon
(31,126 posts)
LuvNewcastle
(16,858 posts)These people are employing human beings. A lot of business owners have forgotten that fact. Some employers treat their workers worse than farm animals. People need food and shelter and doctors when they're sick just as a milk cow does. When we have companies that do everything they can to keep from providing the wages that people need for their survival, we have a sick society. The sad thing is, workers' conditions are far better in America than they are in most of the world.
Apophis
(1,407 posts)tomg
(2,574 posts)NickB79
(19,274 posts)The burger behemoth is fielding an increasing number of gripes about its employees’ friendliness, professionalism and speed of service, so much so that an executive warned, “service is broken” at a recent internal webcast.
The company told franchisees during a webcast last month that 20 percent of complaints were related to workers’ attitudes, “and it’s increasing,” according to the Wall Street Journal. Gripes about “rude or unprofessional employees” topped the list, and complaints that it took too long to get food increased “significantly,” over the last six months.
If you treat your employees like shit, the customers get treated like shit too.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)collection-agency-having employees to do our bidding down to the last, minuscule detail for our customers on an individual basis, customer after customer. D'oh. Here's an idea: recognize that this work can, in most places, be compared to a factory worker on the line...with the added hobble that many customers are picky, so there is a lot to it. It quickly fries the brain, I am sure, never mind the soul. I worked in a convenience store/pizza fast food joint for many years as my disability progressed and I can tell you it is no picnic, dealing with the public. They are lucky they still get warm bodies to show up in most hell-holes.
CrispyQ
(36,527 posts)Fuckin' A!
Our communities would be vastly nicer places if everyone had to work retail for a year.
madville
(7,412 posts)Low morale is always the culprit. If people don't want to be there working it reflects in their service and attitude. Don't worry, plenty of eager low wage people will be showing up to take over these jobs if the Senate immigration bill gets passed.
auntsue
(277 posts)they pay better than average and train really well.........the people who work there are -- fast efficient and friendly.....the food is fresh made right before your eyes. Actual whole spuds.
NickB79
(19,274 posts)Your experience at In & Out sounds like mine at Culver's, much better than that sludge they serve at McDonalds or Burger King.
emmadoggy
(2,142 posts)Our local Culver's is a friendly, happy place. Employees greet you when you walk in and most of the time they also thank you and say goodbye as you leave. They smile and are pleasant. Food is good and orders are correct. We LOVE Culver's!
I honestly don't know how well they pay their employees, but the service there is much better regardless.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Maybe once every couple of months I buy a fast food item for convenience.
But I'd sooner eat road kill than have to brace myself for the emotional trauma that is ordering and receiving food at most McDonald's franchises.
I'm not even sure most of the people are employed there, since it seems like they worked out a "community service" sentencing deal for people adjudged to have committed anti-social acts.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)Back in the '70's when I worked at McDonalds they trained us in customer service. Are you still training people how to do anything but run a register? I don't think so, because many of your people seem genuinely not to know some basics of customer service. For example, THANKING THE CUSTOMER. And I'm looking at many, MANY retail establishments other than McDonalds. Howza 'bout training that you give the customer the merchandise, you don't just sit it on the counter and go on to the next customer? Basics. Some people are untrainable, but most are not.
And by the way, I don't care how much the pay is, you have a job you do it right. And yeah, I'm well aware of the absolute shit these workers have to put up with from customers.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)I know their job sucks - I've worked at similar jobs and so have my kids. So I make eye contact, I smile, I say "thank you". Are 90 percent of them deaf? or just never learned basic courtesy. It's like dealing with mute robots. A savy businessman/owner would treat his employees as well as he wants them to treat his customers.
The majority of people in the service industry who are friendly are people who depend on tips. And I do tip 15 to 20 percent, even if service is slow, because when that happens it's because management didn't hire enough servers and the wait staff are stretched too thin. All that said, I applaud the OP for calling out the manager on the blatant selfishess and greed of redecorating a still new facility, but stiffing his employees.
Incitatus
(5,317 posts)It doesn't seem to work that way. If you go to a Walmart and then go to a Costco, Whole Foods or some nice retail place that treats their employees better, you will likely see a big difference in the service provided. It doesn't take much training to teach someone to smile and say thank you, but people who are treated well by their employers are much more likely to reciprocate with better customer service.
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)I ate at a McDonald's two weeks ago. Simple order, hamburger, order of fries and a vanilla milkshake. Time to get complete order..........8 minutes. While waiting to complete my order (waiting for fries to cook), she waited on 2 other customers, who also had to wait for a complete order.
When I worked at McDonald's in '74, this is how I was taught to serve a customer: First thing that goes on the tray are the customer's drink(s) followed by fries and lastly their sandwich(es). If you had to wait for either the fries or sandwich to be cooked, you didn't put one on the tray and wait for the other. Both items were to be served "hot".
This is how I got my meal, sandwich, shake then fries. BTW I returned the burger because it was cold.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...that people who do menial work do not deserve to earn a living wage, even though they are on their feet all day long and dealing with the public -- which is never an easy thing.
Is that what you are saying here? Because that's what I'm hearing.
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)if the people are rude or my order isn't exactly what I ordered. I don't look to have people "serving" me. Which is probably why I don't eat from these places or restaurants that often, there is no reason for me to pay someone to serve me when I can do it myself and not have to pay.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Your post makes no sense. It seems to be taking "close enough for government work" into a new dimension.
CrispyQ
(36,527 posts)
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)are to serve me.
When ordering fast food, as long as it's close to what I ordered I'm fine with it.
If I get chicken instead of beef, that's fine. It's still food, and probably worth about the same or close to the same as I paid.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)
her's you at a restaurant:
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)it looks like to have a conservative mind frame in which you think that capital has more rights than labor. Just sayin.
RB TexLa
(17,003 posts)fast food. Nothing to do with what people are paid.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)when the employees, sick of being treated like crap, stop cleaning the bathrooms, floors, counters, tables, chairs and....spit in your food for good measure?
lunatica
(53,410 posts)nineteen50
(1,187 posts)not the person waiting on me is working sick because they have no sick leave or health care and can not afford to miss a days work.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
1monster
(11,012 posts)And if you work in an area that has loads of business, the customers can be totally outrageous in their rudeness.
It takes a lot of self-control and people skills to do the job.
I don't know what the pay rate and hours are like now for those who work fast food, but when I was doing it some thirty odd years ago, it was near starvation wages (in fact, there were times when I bought a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter and jelly swirl -- because I couldn't afford a jar of each -- and those were my groceries for a week).
Fast food workers bring in tons of money for the owners of the franchise. Back when hamburgers were 25 cents each, we had something called the FIVE HUNDRED DOLLAR club. That was any food service cashier who did $500 or more in food sales in one hour. Back when you got "change back from your dollar." Think about it. The average meal was between 78¢ and $1.15 per person. That means that the member of the $500 club took orders for and served at least 400 people in one hour... (and the only reward was your name on a placque -- not even a five dollar fast food store money).
And always with a smile or you got a written reprimand which mean no ten cent raise in January when the employee reviews were done.
Oh, and some of my other jobs have been teacher, theatrical costumer, cancer research lab assistant, secretary, group sales for an attraction, etc...
demwing
(16,916 posts)that cuts through the empathy center of your brain?
Go on and justify slave wages, if it makes you feel better. That's what's important, right?
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Talk about living in a bubble.
iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)Just curious.
Im not sure what amount of service has to do with under paying employees and wasting money on things that are unnecessary when it could be going to workers?
lark
(23,158 posts)Do you think really rich folks are paid by the hour or for their production and earn their pay, or is it just working class people that you denigrate? Seems like the later from your post.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)
flvegan
(64,416 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)They don't do arbitrary raises at one locale and not others.
Once again, its a McJob. That said, I had several of them in highschool.
Did you really expect more from the owners?
Coccydynia
(198 posts)But fuck'em. Right?
SlimJimmy
(3,182 posts)flawed in that is presumes that the local owner can raise wages at will. They can't.
They don't do arbitrary raises at one locale and not others.
Coccydynia
(198 posts)On the OP, not the OP. And I'm not sure what leeway franchisees have in pay rates. Certainly they pay differently between states.
I was responding to what seemed to me to be a dismissive attitude about the pay rate, and that high schoolers, like the commenter was at the time, the primary employee.
Perhaps I infered too much. But minimum wage should be a livin wage anyway.
SlimJimmy
(3,182 posts)That wage does vary from state to state, but does not from location to location within a geographic area.
Coccydynia
(198 posts)
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)I saw it in the car business, the manufacturers making dealers renovate to fit their new mold. The owners had no choice, the manufacturer, and I'm assuming corporate fast food, could pull the franchise from the owner.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)and as a general comment, in retail, especially food, you have to keep the place looking spiffed or business will go right next door. Or the kind of business you want...
baldguy
(36,649 posts)
Journeyman
(15,041 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Journeyman
(15,041 posts)oldhippie
(3,249 posts)Every dollar of wages paid is 100% deductible from gross to arrive at taxable income.
The remodel, no so much. It will probably have to be depreciated over years. You have it exactly backwards.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Because on any budget sheet or summary, wages are the biggest number. That's it. These MBA wizards just cut the biggest number because it's the easiest. Having to research cost savings, efficiencies and new technologies takes time and brains. They usually are bean counters and know nothing about the business and how it runs, so they just cross off some numbers.
I shit you not, I worked for one of the largest department stores in the 90s and they were having a budget meeting because the company was going bankrupt due to the downturn in sales. One of the many executive vice presidents, a smarmy, smug, six-figure self-promoter was sitting next to the CEO. He just went down the page with a black marker and crossed a few things out. That savings was a pittance; he screwed up his brow and stared at the paper, confused. So then he got an idea: he crossed out the line for payroll, smiled and said, "Great, we're done."
All the upper management who had never run the actual retail side just nodded, shut their folders and the meeting was basically over. All the people who actually worked in the stores and ran them were sitting there with their mouths open.
thesquanderer
(11,993 posts)...they are essentially taxed through other mechanisms, i.e. payroll taxes (FICA contributions), workmen's comp, unemployment insurance.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)that the company takes off of the bottom line for the corporate income tax.
A capital improvement cannot be written off in one year. It makes no sense if you are talking about tax deductions. But that isn't what this is all about.
senseandsensibility
(17,146 posts)but SOMETHING always seems to make it impossible for them to share in it. Wonder what it could be. And as for the poster above, I always receive correct change and a correct order at fast food places. Really weird comment.
handmade34
(22,758 posts)**it's a shame that customers don't boycott corporations that won't pay a livable wage
I say, we the people (collectively) have the power... unfortunately we can't cooperate enough to use it
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)It's a very interesting question and one that may never have crossed the mind of management whatsoever. The responses by so-called "Democrats" have me wondering what that even means any more.
The responses on this thread have me shaking my head. Really people? Do you think every human being is disposable? If there was one place where you could get a sandwich where the staff was happy and courteous vs. another where they were beaten down robots (aka most min wage workers who have to take constant crap from customers) WHICH ONE WOULD YOU GO TO? How about the local diner where they greet you with a smile and perhaps chat all for the price of a cup of coffee?
Department store retail is dying. You wanna know why? Because in the late 80s they decided that salespeople were the first budget line to be cut. So now when you go into a department store it's like an empty tomb, no customers and absolutely no salespeople in sight. If you do find one, they are brand new and know nothing about any of the products. The register lines are long and the staff look like they're at their wit's end. They'll be burnt out in a month or two and the cycle will start all over again. Management was not cut and in most cases, jobs were added. They didn't believe in customer service and now they're paying the price. They are the reason online took off when no one believed that it would. They dug their own grave. The same is true of all service industries. If you decide there is no such thing as good customer service, woe is you, because someone will figure out a way to capitalize on that weakness.
So if you prefer your industrial "meat" products, with a frown, more power to you. But your server might be sick because he isn't paid sick leave. Or he might be so disgruntled, he spits in your food. Or worse yet, his kids might be at home starving all because you think people aren't worth shit and you're all embarrassed Romneys who can't understand why anyone working in fast food deserves more than minimum wage. I hope it goes down smooth and doesn't give you indigestion.
tblue37
(65,490 posts)Decades ago it used to be a store where one could find decent clothing at a reasonable price, but not any longer. But it's even worse than that. I needed to get some casual T-shirts the other evening, and I have always liked Penney's T-shirts, so I went there for the first time in a couple of years.
I am in my 60s and heavy, so I don't buy anything without trying it on first. But when I went to the dressing room, there was a a sign saying it was closed for the evening--even though the store would not close for 3 and a half hours yet.
Then I went to another dressing room, and it was closed for the evening, too. I finally found a dressing room sort of open on the other side of the store--in the lingerie department--but most of it was also closed off with a rope and a sign, and only one changing room was open! There were four women ahead of me in line to use that one room, so I just left the T-shirts on the counter and walked out.
They had closed all the dressing rooms because they didn't have enough people staffing the store to watch the dressing rooms. They also didn't have anyone manning any of the cash registers I saw, which is also a pain in the neck when you want to pay for something and get home within a reasonable amount of time.
They say they can't staff the stores because they aren't making enough profit, but when their potential customers cannot find what they need, can't find a worker to help them, can't find a dressing room to try on clothes, can't find a cashier to take their money, then they lose all those sales, and that cuts their profits. It is made even worse by the fact that a skimpy staff can't keep the store in decent order, so it looks like crap, too, with the clothing all thrown about on shelves, on racks, and in dressing rooms, because no one is there to refold things, to hang them in their proper places, or to collect items from the dressing rooms to restore to the racks. This does not create a pleasant shopping experience for their customers.
I keep seeing articles about how Walmart's profits are also way down for that same reason. Skimpy staff can't keep the stores stocked, so people can't find what they come into the store to buy. And there are such long lines at the few open registers that some people just give up and walk out, leaving behind the items they had intended to buy.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)And yes, the same is happening at WalMart. I rarely go there, but since the Mega Store has pushed all the small businesses into bankruptcy, occasionally I am forced to. If I need a package of needles, I can't afford to drive 35 miles to a store back in the Big City. So I try and use WalMart, as quickly as possible.
But it is a hassle. There is not enough staff. Lines are long. Last time I was there, I bought something I saw at a very good price. But it turns out it was shoved into the wrong place on the counter - so the clerk yelled at me when I said what she rang up was wrong. No, she said, you don't understand our pricing.
I ended up having to show her where I got the thing, and then she let me know that someone had shoved it above the price sticker for some other similar but not the same item. And that she had the right to charge me the higher price. I also got the feeling she thought I was trying to pull a fast one. It took so much time, I really am going to just use the internet to get stuff from now on, rather than go back there.
tblue37
(65,490 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 27, 2013, 11:19 PM - Edit history (2)
when this occurred--the 4 women in line for that one dressing room, a mother with a baby in a stroller, and I were the only customers in the store--and it is a very large store. In fact they moved to this greatly expanded space some years ago. I was looking to buy the T-shirts to wear on my plane flights because I had to go to Washington, D.C., this past weekend for my son's wedding, and with the extremely uncomfortable seats the airlines now cram us into, dressing comfortably is essential while flying.
I actually saw a nice skirt and jacket set while there, and I wanted to try it on, too, but all the pieces (all sizes) were hung up high, far beyond my reach, and there were no salespeople anywhere that I could find to help me get one down to try on. Just as well, I guess, since there were no dressing rooms open anyway. The set was nice enough that if I could have gotten it down to try on, I probably would have purchased it to wear at the rehearsal dinner, because it really looked like something that would fit me and that I could comfortably wear. I have a lot of trouble finding appropriate styles and sizes. I am not "huge," but like many people, I am heavier at 62 than I was at 22.
That's another big problem. Women my age and weight do NOT want to dress in too small clothing made from thin and clingy knits that show every roll of fat around the midriff, but that's almost all that most mid-range stores have now in my area (the Midwest). I think they try to save production costs by using cheap, tacky fabric and making even large sizes too small to avoid using as much fabric. Also, just because a woman is older and no longer svelte, that does NOT mean we want to wear polyester or that we want garish or dowdy patterns in loud colors.
Older, heavier women have money to spend on clothes, but we can't find anything suitable to buy!
Tanuki
(14,922 posts)stores would realize that there are a lot of women of a certain age who want attractive, age appropriate, and stylish clothes. By only stocking the types of items you mentioned, they are writing off a large segment of their potential clientele.
tblue37
(65,490 posts)truedelphi
(32,324 posts)But there was not a thing in those stores anyone over 45 would buy. I mean, wearing a teen princess outfit once you're over a certain age is rather silly.
And not one thing in either store was in a size above 12. Maybe once in a while you would find a 14.
The one store that has stayed open with a nice profit to show for it stocks clothes from size 0 to size 60.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I shop 90% online now. When customer service is not an added value, why deal with the added hassle?
And yes, not everyone wants to look like a hoochie or Kim Kardashian. I've never found it so difficult to find clothes that I like and feel comfortable wearing in public. I was at Nordstrom looking for shoes and all they had were Kardashian platform style 4-5" heels. I'm quite tall so if I added a platform I would be about 6'2". And I walk quite a bit so I couldn't get 10 feet in those things. No thanks. But there was no other choices in any price range. All the dresses where skin-tight lycra in leopard or something. So I didn't buy anything.
I also wonder if clothing manufacturers look around and see what Americans actually look like. We're getting fatter, a lot fatter, so why is the trend skinny jeans and Daisy Dukes? They live in such a bubble, they have no idea what those clothes look like on anyone but anorexic waifs. But women are bombarded with these images and so dutifully stuff themselves into low-rider jeans with muffin tops or skinny jeans that make you look like a potato. It's awful.
tblue37
(65,490 posts)get me a gift certificate to Nordstrom's for Mother's Day this year, but I asked them not to waste the money, because I knew I would not find anything I could wear in that store--because I was there just a few months ago and couldn't find anything then, either.
Online is a hassle, too, though, because of sizing issues. Often it takes two or three tries to get the right size, because there is no real standardization. I am a medium, a large, or even an XL, depending on the store and the style, so I have to guess and then send back the ones that don't fit and keep reordering until I find the right size for that brand in that store.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)I've been arguing for years for a "dignity of labor" litmus test for Democrats.
If they can't be bothered to support the dignity of all workers, the payment of a decent wage and benefits and the creation and maintenance a of a middle class...they need to get the fuck out of the Democratic Party. If they oppose organized labor...they need to leave. If they think that class-exploitation is hunky-dory, they gotta go. There's another party, one made up entirely of capitalist vampires who profit off the exploitation of the masses...they would be much happier in that tent. We would be much happier if they weren't in this tent.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)You need to make an OP out of this, imho.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Just as we complain about Fox News brainwashing its viewers, we fail to see how the hideous messages have been accepted and assimilated starting with Reagan (the Anti-Christ). People commenting here are fine with the workers getting screwed because we've all been brainwashed to think that maximum profit = good business when that is anything but true. People are treated badly in their own jobs so they love to dump on down the line.
That's why I think this OP is a good question to start asking everyone. It might help wake them up. We've had corporate babble shoved into heads for so long, we've accepted the overlords' premises. I fear it's a losing battle, but I do believe that changing the fabric of our thought is the most essential, and from it follows the swift resolution of all the symptoms. Consumers don't know just how much power they have, and you know who they are--workers! By making a point of shopping at places that treat and pay workers well, businesses will figure out it's just as valuable as marketing and other sales tools and might just start doing it (see Costco--they're doing major PR on their labor strategy and it's a huge success).
And while I know our bought-off Democrats and the DNC no longer stand for the worker, it's time we take that back because the Democratic Party is a set of ideals, not just management. Or it used to be. Maybe that's why I, like so many identify as a liberal now, because the party no longer reflects my ideals.
Anyway, I could rant on about this all day. Thanks for a very thought-provoking post.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)of the time period you mention, I can quite agree. I worked at the cusp, started when you could still get a knowledgable sales person who had been there for awhile and ended when the whole thing was just falling apart with interchangeable salesmatons, no training, not much staffing. It wasn't the salespeople's fault. I started as a salesperson, learned my department and made manager. I'd still be there, but a couple of mergers, major layoffs, and a lack of invsetment in...well, anything at the store level, convinced me i t was time to move on. I loved it while the gettin' was good, even though the pay was crappy. I knew my business and merchandise. The few people left in department stores are ripping their hair out doing three jobs and the salespeople last months and know nothing. Even I don't shop in department stores, and I used to be able to wax poetic about the department store experience. No more.
And right on to the dressing room searcher! The few times I venture into a department store I find myself asking, Do they really WANT to sell anything? They make it so difficult.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I was a very large department manager by the time I was 20. I moved up through the buying office and into store design very quickly. I stayed because I was moving fast and making so much money, I figured I would keep the job until I was bored before starting grad school. But I went through three rounds of brutal layoffs both on the store side and middle management. It was like watching people be guillotined. They were such assholes about it, you never knew if you were going to be fired, but if you came into the office and couldn't log onto your computer in the morning, you were toast. People who had been working there the longest, we're talking decades, were always axed and there was literally a funeral dirge heard along the cubicle hallways. Wails and moans and crying, the betrayal for hard work and loyalty. I thought I was going to go insane so I left. I rarely shop in department stores for the reasons everyone is sighting, but whenever I go into them, it's a ghost town.
Thav
(946 posts)My wife's employer pulled the same bullshit. They just added on a several MILLION dollar renovation and continue to buy up property to expand their buildings. Yet they are laying people off and have frozen wages for all but high-levels. When questioned why they froze wages when they're spending money on building/renovation projects, their straight faced answer: "That money comes from a different account." My wife responded, "I have to pay the utility company each month. I can't just tell them that I don't have any money in that account to pay them while I go out and have expensive steak dinners."
Really, it's all just a smokescreen. And it's true, It IS a shame corporations won't invest in their employees.
Billy Pilgrim
(96 posts)hasn't gotten a raise either, and it's very unlikely he has the authority to give anyone a raise. It's also unlikely he had anything to do with the decision to remodel the place.
If my experience with serving customers serves as a guide, he was likely hoping your misplaced intrusion of personal ideology didn't excacerbate into an unpleasant experience for the chain's customers. That might get him fired, and he probably needs that job.
You make a valid point, but you did it the wrong way. I'm sure that fast-food manager just LOVES low wages for himself and his staff.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,590 posts)and gave each a $1 per hour bump (just to have a number to play with). If you are full time you work about 2000 hours a year.
That's 2k per employee per year or a $40k increase overall. Can they get the remodel done for $160k?
We should all ask that question at places we spend money. "When is the last time the employees got a raise?"
rsmith6621
(6,942 posts)...will also be paying much of their staff the lowest wage possible.Likely they will use TEMPS to do the demo.
niyad
(113,585 posts)
DJ13
(23,671 posts)Thousands and thousands on remodeling the hotel... new pools, new carpets, new HDTV's, new fancy doors all around the building, and yet not one single raise for any hourly employees for the last 4 years.
This mindset is nothing but pure fucking greed.
mountain grammy
(26,655 posts)People who work deserve to be paid a living wage.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)it's a means to an end...keep climbing the ladder
Ford_Prefect
(7,921 posts)No doubt they get favorable loan rates at the bank, interest likely a write off too.
Employee wages come off the day to day income for the site and therefore hit the franchise owner's income and his rate of return to the corporation, who also grade the efficiency of his manager. As with most cheap labor operations there is huge incentive to keep costs and wages down, and painful dis-incentives applied to those managers who fail to do so.
One more piece of the process to separate us from our hard earned as smoothly as possible.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)As a matter of fact, if one stays too long in some places they are looked at as "losers".
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Same with Al Dunlap. They set the precedent of viewing long-timers as complacent sponges rather than valued assets. Corporate America followed the lead from these two vampires . . . combined with Reagan's 1981 union busting bullshit. Aaaaaaaand here we are.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)They figure if you are still just a clerk after ten years you lack ambition or are only good for entry level or you are just a pencil pushing clock watcher on their dime and you can go do it on someone else's dime.
This is another reason they hire temps, so they aren't REALLY part of the company and they change faces now and then.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)about once a day I had to move boxes over one of the lines. The boxes were perhaps 40-50 pounds. Maybe only 30 pounds, with about 100 boxes to a pallet. I worked there as a temp - meaning lower wages, and no benefits.
So the factory spends something like $50,000 to put in a lift to lift the pallet of boxes over the line.
They'll do that, but they won't pay me benefits.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)bottom line. Managers may not have all that much control. They are also required to maintain the place according to company policies. Chains actually schedule the various places for mandatory remodels/updates, so they all look just alike, no matter where you go.
That guy;s franchise agreement probably forced him to remodel whether or not he wanted to, so he's got to sound happy..
It's probably a deductible expense that might not affect his bottom line.
Paying higher wages might affect his bonus status, and wages might even be dictated by corporate..
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)At least that I have been in, in Houston.
Some of the designer lines formerly sold at Neiman-Marcus are now sold in one brand designer boutiques in the Galleria.
The Last Call store, which is a Neiman's subdivision, has marked down merchandise and of course, very helpful employees.
It's the opposite of Wal-Mart. Happy salespeople, happy customers and quality merchandise. It's rare that I buy anything there, but I know it will last a long time. And it's probably not made in China. 
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)They won't pay any employee more than $9.25/hr. They have 3 managers making $80K+ bonuses, the main manager gets $120K+.
He just had his hours cut from 35 to 30 after the raise so he's taking home less than he was before.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I've often wondered the same thing.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Orrex
(63,225 posts)is like asking the hospital janitor to cut the price of open heart surgery.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)It's better that the business is spending money than hoarding it.
diabeticman
(3,121 posts)eat at places that value's a building more than employees.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 25, 2013, 11:52 AM - Edit history (1)
Back in my vigorous youth, you'd walk into a fast food joint, and a KID would take your order.
A high school kid, making money after school. That kid didn't have benefits, he only worked twenty hours a week, if that.
During the day, it would be someone working part - time; a senior supplementing their retirement, or a "stay-at-home" mother making a little extra "pin money." They didn't have 'benefits' either--they were just adding to the Christmas fund, or saving for a vacation, or helping out with the household budget.
The people who worked at those jobs--save the manager of the joint and the assistant managers--weren't working there forever, or invested in a "fast food career." It was a part time job to make a bit of cash, nothing more.
Now, those jobs are being held by people with families, who are relying on what used to be a part-time, kid's job to fund an adult lifestyle. The reason these people are taking these jobs is because there aren't better ones out there that pay a decent wage.
We need better jobs for adults in this country, so that kids can go back to stuffing burgers in bags.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)No need for me to repeat any of it cause you nailed it.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)My college age son has tried to get jobs at fast-food places and coffee bars and has had no luck, because a lot of competition that would have been unheard of years ago. He's basically given up looking at such jobs and has found work within his department at school.
You're right -- these types of jobs should be an introduction to the working world, not the sole means of support for individuals or families. It isn't right -- but such is the good old USA these days.
Bonx
(2,075 posts)Three locations. Healthier food. Been in business for over twenty years. I eat there all the time.
Two things stand out: The prices are higher than the chain joints (no dollar menu, etc.) & the employees are almost all college students.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
thefool_wa
(1,867 posts)That guy was probably making minimum himself if he was a shift manager, and probably not more than $1-2 above minimum even if he was the general manager. Depending on the location and company.
Plus, remodel budget is usually paid for at the regional or higher level, which is also where the raise determinations come from, and the people in charge WANT their employees to not make ends meet so they stay controllable and dependent on the job. If employers (across the board) create an environment where you CAN'T survive on their pay regardless who you work for, then they control you because they know you can't go anywhere else for a better deal. This is the model almost all American businesses have operated on for at least the last 15 years.
This is why as minimum wage has gone up, average wage gets closer to it and jobs are disappearing. Do you think it has any effect on the people who make the real money in any business if they pay their people what really amounts to modern slaves wages? It has zero affect on them and they know that if the person they can't control with it gives up and leaves, the next person will be just as desperate for the job and may be more controllable with their tactics.
You REALLY want to protest what that guy was doing/saying, you should have walked out without buying a meal. All you did by sticking to your order after that confrontation was tell him "I want to complain, but I'm not willing to do anything that might affect you about it." I'm not condemning you, you were probably hungry, but next time tell the guy how you feel with your money, not just your words.
alp227
(32,061 posts)Conservatives will say, "oh the free market will empower the workers if they are good enough."
well guess what the FREE MARKET has sucked up to accept?
Union busting
Outsourcing manufacturing/labor to third world low wage countries
High fructose corn syrup/toxins in everything
Taking away workers' rights just to enrich the si called capitalist
They'll still shop at big corporate chain stores despite all this
Uzair
(241 posts)Raising wages is an expense in perpetuity. There is a difference between an expense and an investment, and the floor increases revenue while raising the wage only increases costs.
Texano78704
(309 posts)Employee productivity lowers costs.
ceonupe
(597 posts)Often times in franchise business corporate will push and demand a remodel/rebranding of stores. It's very costly for the franchisee but the have to do it or give up their franchise. So they usually borrow the 200k either thru lenders the corporation has pre arranged or thru 3rd parties.
I personally know a McDonald's owner of 3 locations in the Atlanta area. He makes after taxes less than 100k per year. Works over 80hrs a week. He says unless you have multiple locations for many it's not that profitable. He says the best decision he made at one location was to outsource drive they order taking to a call center. He said he had a dramatic increase in speed and reduction in errors. Also the staff liked it as it gave them a few more seconds with the customer instead of multitasking and making mistakes and running behind. He said the cost was less than hiring a dedicated onsite order taker. He next plans to rollout kiosks at this same location. This one location is the only profitable location so he hopes what he learns there can be used at the others.
As for employees he said he prefers young single parents and college students the most because the work with purpose. His locations have a car repair fund that employees can tap into to get their car repaired and have deductions taken out over 3 pay periods intrest free, he says single moms are the most dedicated employees and work the hardest. He says college kids help motivate the other employees and bring very good interpersonal skills to the location. He said also because college kids usually work no more than 20-30hrs a week max they don't require long term Beniffits that quite frankly good service jobs can't afford to provide.
He was very honest and I was shocked to see that he was being forced in to a large scale remodel of one of his locations at a cost far more than 200k or had the option of givin that location up. He but the billets and borrowed the money to maintain his teritory agreement.
If you are wondering his entry level wage is about $1 higher than min wage. However they are specific on appearance so any visible tats or Percings not in the ears women women only no male piercings need not apply.
kardonb
(777 posts)the decision to remodel comes from corporate HDQTS. , the individual store mgr. has no say in that matter .
Elmergantry
(884 posts)Other than the managers, the front line clerks often have a I dont give a shit attitude.
On the other hand, at every Chik Filet I have been to the the service is outstanding. Always smiling, act like they really like their job.
So what is the difference?
Better Pay?or is there more to it than that? I dont know, Im asking.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)Basically, the people they hired didn't give a shit and the management was inconsistent.
But it was a step up from the place she started at down the street, where she was propositioned and offered drugs in the back room.
Elmergantry
(884 posts)Afraid to ask what the other restaruant she was propositioned at was....
Out of curiosity I just googled up Chik FilA and customer service and came up with this interesting article:
http://www.sas.com/knowledge-exchange/customer-intelligence/featured/secondary-feature/a-lesson-in-customer-service-from-chick-fil-a-president-dan-cathy/index.html
This Cathy guy may have r-wing politics but he seems to know how to run a FFood joint. Perhaps McD's could learn something.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Javaman
(62,534 posts)that's their corporate model.
BillyRibs
(787 posts)Why didn't you turn around, And Say "Wow that's too bad, Ya cheep crook, cause you just lost a sale and a customer." and Walked the hell out!? I'm sure you could spend you money just as readily at a locally owned Food Joint with better tasting food and better pay. If not find one!
heaven05
(18,124 posts)and financial (banking) greed are the order of the day in amerikkka and I fear in the whole world..... Damn the worker, they are an unappreciated asset to discard when their usefulness is over.
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)probably own assets in the tile company, the molding company, the company that makes the paint and the contractors who will do the work. The employees are not considered investment assets, they're considered liabilities to be minimized. That's how corporate fiduciary capitalism works. Love it or kill it. Choose one.
