Snowden being manipulated by WikiLeaks, could choose to come back to U.S. voluntarily,

[struggle4progress]

his father says
Associated Press and Bloomberg News
13/06/28 11:47 AM ET
... The NBC Today show reported Friday that Lonnie Snowden is sending a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder saying he believes his son would voluntarily return to the United States if the Justice Department promises not to hold him prior to trial and not subject him to a gag order ...
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/28/snowden-being-manipulated-by-wikileaks-could-choose-to-come-back-to-u-s-voluntarily-his-father-says/



Snowden’s father says he may return if conditions met - report
Family concerned son being manipulated by others including people from Wikileaks
... Mr Snowden’s father, in part of the NBC interview that aired on the “Today Show,” also said he is concerned his son was being manipulated by others, including people from WikiLeaks ...
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/snowden-s-father-says-he-may-return-if-conditions-met-report-1.1446350

[struggle4progress]

1. Hong Kong to Snowden: You're not coming back

Zach Coleman
Special for USA TODAY
9:34 a.m. EDT June 28, 2013

HONG KONG — With U.S. officials continuing to snipe at Hong Kong for not arresting former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, and with his next stop still far from certain, one place he won't be returning to is Hong Kong.

The city has now declared it won't let him back in.

Hong Kong's immigration department said late Thursday that it had told all airlines serving the city that they should not carry Snowden back as he would not be allowed entry after the department belatedly received notice that the U.S. had cancelled his passport ...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/06/28/edward-snowden-nsa-hong-kong/2471415/

[maddezmom]

2. If the dad hasn't spoken with him I wonder where he getting his info

[allin99]

4. he's got lawyers not affiliated with wikileaks after wikileaks lawyers "found him new counsel"

[maddezmom]

6. Ah

Thanks.

[SidDithers]

3. Manipulated by Wikileaks??...

Sid

[railsback]

7. No

[img][/img]

[baldguy]

15. Que the Paulbot apologists to throw Wikileaks under the bus, in 3...2...

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. Stupid snarky shit.

Nothing to do with the OP. Poster should deal with his issues.

[baldguy]

26. And the people who think Snowden should watch out for Obama's drone attacks are.....?

[Scurrilous]

24. worst.travelagents.ever.

[struggle4progress]

5. Russian Official Says Snowden Could Appeal For Asylum In Russia

By Staff Reporter
Jun 28, 2013 10:03 AM EDT
... "It can be considered by the President if Mr. Snowden files such a request," the Interfax news agency quoted the head of Russian Presidential Human Rights Council Mikhail Fedotov as saying. "A person, disclosing secrets concealed by special services, if these secrets are a threat to millions of people ... such a person does deserve political asylum in this or that country," said Mikhail Fedotov. "I think it will be the right thing to do if they do grant him asylum," said Fedotov, stressing Snowden "must be under the protection of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees throughout this procedure" ...
http://www.hngn.com/articles/6497/20130628/edwardsnowden-us-nsa-leaks-hongkong-russia-china-hackings-computers-russia-ecuador.htm



Russia not bound to grant Snowden asylum: official
English.news.cn
2013-06-28 21:55:13
MOSCOW, June 28 (Xinhua) -- Moscow is not obliged to grant a political asylum to the fugitive U.S. intelligence leaker Edward Snowden, a Russian official said Friday. "I am not convinced that Snowden is a right person deserved to be supported and sympathized," presidential human rights envoy Vladimir Lukin told the Interfax news agency. Lukin noted it was questionable whether granting an asylum would be in Russia's national interests. "He hasn't committed crimes against Russia. Still the asylum is not granted for all people who have not committed crimes against Russia," he said ...
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2013-06/28/c_132496127.htm

[railsback]

8. Looks like the run is about over

[flamingdem]

9. msnbc has wikileaks spokesman and panel now nt

[randome]

32. All Snowden has to do is...

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Zorra]

10. Uh-huh. "Today I'm going to turn myself in so I can spend the rest of my life in prison".

For some reason, I just can't see myself ever doing that; living in a cage for the rest of my life is on my short list of the worst things that could ever happen to me.

I'm pretty sure Ed has similar thoughts.

[arely staircase]

12. probably should have thought that through earlier

nt

[flamingdem]

13. I can understand that, but any patriot/hero needs to stand up for what they believe

or be seen in a negative light, especially if they end up in a country like Russia!

[Zorra]

14. Following your reasoning, it appears that you believe that Paul Revere should have

turned himself over to the British, and Crazy Horse should have turned himself over to the US Cavalry, and Oskar Schindler should have turned himself over to the Nazis, etc. if they did not want to be seen in a negative light.

Being seen in a negative light by oppressive regimes is an honorable thing, IMO.

Heroes generally don't seem to care what fools think of them. I'm not convinced that Snowden is a hero, but if he is, he would be a very stupid hero indeed if he turned himself in simply because of what conservatives think of him.

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." ~ Ben Franklin

[flamingdem]

16. I wouldn't compare Snowden to Revolutionary heros

He is a turncoat at best because he gave info to China that damaged US interests and US China relations. And he did this to save his own hide. There were other ways to bring the information he felt was so important to light. At first it was about Americans, but in the end he didn't care who it hurt or helped. He continues to be on the run.

[Zorra]

20. I understand. You are looking at this from the POV of a good American, who is convinced

that their government can do no wrong, and that the information provided by the government is always true and accurate.

Tories, people who sided with the British during the American War for Independence, basically felt the same way about Paul Revere and the rebels that you feel about Snowden. Americans who believed that the extermination of Native Americans was justified felt the same way you do about Snowden. Germans who felt that the German government during the mid thirties and early forties of the 20th century felt the same way about Oskar Schindler as you do about Snowden.

It's all relative. Some people simply believe that everything their government does is moral, ethical, and just, even if that government has a policy of oppression and or genocide, and that anyone who opposes these actions and policies and struggles against these actions and policies is an outlaw and a traitor, like Revere, Crazy Horse, and Schindler, just to name a few on a very long list of resistance "heroes".

Personally, I am much more concerned with the distressing information that Snowden made public, and basically view most unsourced attempts at assassinating Snowden's character as pseudo-patriotic strawman arguments created to deflect attention from the fact that the US government has been employing unethical methods and devices to invade the privacy of innocent US citizens.

There is a big difference between ethics/morality and law, and it appears that many here have difficulty understanding how these things can be different.

After WWII, the Nuremberg Commission made a clear distinction between national laws and government orders and common human ethics/morality:

Principle IV states: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him".

This principle could be paraphrased as follows: "It is not an acceptable excuse to say 'I was just following my superior's orders'".

Principle VII states, "Complicity in the commission of a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity as set forth in Principle VI is a crime under international law."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_principles

Snowden, although he knew it was illegal, chose to reveal corrupt and nefarious secret actions perpetrated by an agency of the US government against the innocent citizens of the US and the world.

Does this make him a hero, or a traitor?

[flamingdem]

21. You presume I'm naive and not a person who has disagreed many times with the US govt

I think that the Wikileaks and Snowden approach distorts the issues and is self serving. I don't trust them to lead the way and they are willing to hurt US interests that also can hurt world peace and empower authoritarian governments.

I'm descended from Revolutionary heros by the way

[Zorra]

28. What are these US interests that you are referring to?

[flamingdem]

29. In the case of the Chinese University it was Disarmament nt

[Zorra]

35. OK. Any others? nt

[flamingdem]

36. read the vanity fair article nt

[Zorra]

37. OK, I did. Here's what I found out:

There were

* hacks of major telecommunication companies in China to access text messages

* attacks on network backbones at Tsinghua University, China’s premier seat of learning.

* hacks of computers at the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet,

I hardly see how these will cause the fall of the American Empire anytime soon. It appears to me that these hacks probably have more to do with transnational corporate affairs, corporate security, and corporate secrets than anything else.

Any others interests?

[Katashi_itto]

23. +1000

[Bobbie Jo]

17. Paul Revere?

Geeeeze.

[arely staircase]

19. Oscar Schindler was my fave.

nt

[arely staircase]

22. Benedict Arnold is more like it.

[pnwmom]

38. Why didn't Snowden try going to Alan Grayson with his info?

Or Bernie Sanders? Or even Rand Paul? (fellow Libertarian)

But if he absolutely couldn't do that, why didn't he limit himself to exposing US internal surveillance, instead of moving on to leaks about US spying?

[HiPointDem]

27. like harriet tubman turned herself over to the confederacy = not

[randome]

39. He already IS in prison. It's called an airport.

He'll get better food in a U.S. prison.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[flamingdem]

11. msnbc wikileaks spokesperson and panel on now

being chewed out by melissa perris harry

[whatchamacallit]

25. And you could to choose to put a sock in it

Neither are likely to happen.

[struggle4progress]

33. What Snowden's father says is news, whether or not you approve

[Thinkingabout]

30. Leave him where he is, he does not deserve to reside in the USA any longer, he might be the cause's

patsy but he executed an act of espionage and he needs to pay the price, if it means he can not live in the US then so be it. He sure is not worth the effort for our special forces to risk their lives to get him back to the US.

[Historic NY]

31. He can stay at the airport....

He can't go any where w/o a passport its revoked and he has been denied asylum status in Ecuador because he has to get there first. He can't leave the transit zone (w/o a Russia Visa) to get the papers by going to their embassy either - he has to reach their soil/embassy which he cannot legally or diplomatically.

Russian officials have said he remains in the transit zone of Moscow's Sheremetyevo International Airport, and have said he should move along. The question now is where Mr. Snowden—stripped of his U.S. passport and apparently without an Ecuadorean travel document—can go.

Of course Wikileaks, Mr. Assange is trying to manage the sideshow from his isolation room in the Ecuador embassy in London, a place he is not free to leave from either.

A source at Aeroflot Russian Airlines told the agency that the whistleblower, who is accompanied by WikiLeaks representative, Sarah Harrison, has rented a suit at the airport’s V-Express Capsule Hotel. ..

So there are no conditions Snowden is bottle up indefinitely in Russia and President Obama can move on, as Ecuador kicks and now screams , Assange & wikileaks protest, and Snowdens father makes demands.

[DCBob]

34. Why would the US want him back?

He's already dumped his load in China. Let him rot in that Russian transit zone.