Honest question here - is George Zimmerman not a person of color?

[cigsandcoffee]

Last edited Fri Jun 28, 2013, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)

He identifies as Hispanic, and has Hispanic features. If he were a Harvard Professor or Supreme Court nominee, wouldn't he be celebrated as bringing diversity to those positions?

I ask this because it seems the talk around this case is all about white racism, but I'm not seeing where white racism had anything to do with George Zimmerman. It's almost like him identifying as Hispanic is the elephant in the room.

[pnwmom]

1. Hispanic isn't a racial classification according to the US census and others.

A Hispanic person can identify as white, as African-American, or as mixed.

Women contribute to diversity, too. So do people of different religions and of different economic backgrounds. Diversity isn't confined to issues of race.

[cigsandcoffee]

3. So why did we celebrate Sotomayer's selection to the Supreme Court as being good for diversity?

She's known as the "first Hispanic justice."

She doesn't identify as white or African American, as far as I know. She identifies as Hispanic.

[Cleita]

6. So do I, but I can assure you that the gene pool I came from is different than Sotomayer's.

We identify ourselves as such because of language, culture and a common historical background.

[pnwmom]

8. I just explained that. Diversity isn't solely limited to racial background.

Hispanics include both people who consider themselves white and people who consider themselves to be "of color," "African American," "black," or "mixed.

But "Hispanics" of any color are one of the groups that have previously not been represented on SCOTUS.

(The reason for the confusion, I think, is that -- to a large degree -- this is all arbitrary. Why is an olive skinned Italian or Greek from the Southern Mediterranean called "white"?)

[cigsandcoffee]

13. OK. So is Zimmerman a person of color or not? n/t

[Cleita]

16. It would depend on if he has African or Native American ancestors. We

don't know and looking at him really isn't going to tell you his ethnic background. Remember even if he's Mediterranean from Spain, Spain is in Europe. My husband's roommate, before we were married, was another Irish chap from Cork (my husband was from Limerick) and he was olive skinned, black haired and had dark brown eyes. He looked Hispanic and was darker than me and I am Hispanic.

[HiPointDem]

30. his mother is from peru. i believe the paternal grandfather also married a latina, i seem to

recall reading that somewhere.

On voter registration forms, George Zimmerman identified himself as Hispanic, as did his mother. His father, Robert, listed himself as white on voter registration forms. Zimmerman's mother, Gladys, is originally from Peru.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-case-georg_n_1387711.html

"person of color" isn't confined to people with black or NA roots. and spain was a melting pot what with spanish jews & moors (black/arab).

most people looking at zimmerman would judge him hispanic & a person of color.

[Cleita]

34. So he's half-Peruvian of mixed ancestry.

I'm half Chilean of mixed ancestry. The other half of me is white North American of quite a mixed heritage as well and if there is any Native American in there in the past, and there could be, as part of my family has been here since the good old days of New Amersterdam, well that makes me pretty mixed up.

[pnwmom]

56. Race doesn't have a biological definition, so the issue is only

whether he considers himself a person of color or not.

[Cleita]

2. Hispanic people can be racist too towards African Americans and vice versa.

Also, I understand he is half European American as well so he may have learned some white style racism from family too. I come from the same mixed parentage so I know there is a certain amount of racism, which I have witnessed from both my White American and Hispanic relatives towards African Americans. It's the being in the wrong neighborhood after dark if you are African American that seems to have been in play here. It seems he also identified hoodies as being worn by people up to no good. Judging people by what they wear or how they comb their hair is very racist in a perverse way, IMHO too.

[aquart]

4. Okay, so open a discussion of Hispanic racism. Have fun.

In my experience, an individual who feels different may well lead an attack on anyone perceived as more different. It isn't nice but it's very human.

[Zoeisright]

5. He stalked and murdered a black kid.

That makes him a fucking racist.

[kiva]

7. Would he still be a racist if he stalked and killed a white kid?

[pnwmom]

9. Probably not, assuming he identified as white. But he probably wouldn't have

stalked and killed a white kid.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. plus he would have gone straight to jail and would be facing the death penalty. nt

[MicaelS]

22. Just like when OJ Simpson went straight to prison..

And is facing the Death Penalty for killing two white people?

[npk]

36. OJ was quickly arrested

Especially so for a celebrity. Besides OJ was suspected of involvement in the double homicide from almost the get go. Zimmerman was given the benefit of the doubt, and other than one quick interview, was never going to be arrested, that is until media got involved and demanded that a special prosecutor actually look at the damn case.

On the other hand OJ was never suspected of killing his wife and her lover based off race. This was a domestic violence driven murder and nothing else. Zimmerman had never even met Martin and no reason to chase him down and pin him to the ground, with a gun drawn. Besides the comments that Zimmerman is heard telling the 911 operator you can tell that he is foillowing the kid and continues to do so even after being told not to. Lets take race out of the equation for a moment. Can you honestly say that Zimmerman did not cause a confrontation that led to another person's death, and would have never been arrested had it not been for intense media coverage and almost global pressure on the police to do so.

None of that occurred in the OJ Simpson case.

[Beacool]

38. Bingo!!

It seems to be only racist when the crime is white on black, but when it's black on white (which is far more often the case according to statistics), then to some it's not racist.

Calling Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker" is a "culture" thing. Someone should have told that to Paula Deen, she too could have used it as an excuse.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. he in fact faced the death penalty

and he was arrested as soon as they had probable cause to arrest him for the murders, although as most of us know, he was oddly allowed to turn himself in, 4 days after the murder, rather than being taken into custody, resulting in the famed Bronco Chase.

I don't really think you want to continue comparing that case with this one, although it is quite possible that this case will end up with a ridiculous jury decision, as that one did.

[yardwork]

47. Killed at the scene by cops while "resisting arrest"

Probably.

[madinmaryland]

26. If he had killed a white kid, he would have already been convicted of first degree murder and

would probably be serving a 30yr-to life sentence.

[Apophis]

52. Yep.

[HappyMe]

10. What difference does that make.

Zimmerman is a racist.

[cigsandcoffee]

29. Is he a racist, though? I see no evidence that he held blacks in low esteem.

Based on everything I read, he may well have had the same feelings toward a "white punk" in a hoodie.

[hrmjustin]

35. Look up some of his families statments and you may feel differently.

[cigsandcoffee]

42. I don't hold a father's sins against his son. I take people as individuals.

And I've heard nothing from George Zimmerman that identifies him as a racist, past or present.

[hrmjustin]

43. Well his father and brother made racist statments when they were defending him.

It might give an insight into how he was raised and what he currently thinks. Yes I agree we can't hold people responsible for the sins of others but Zimmerman has the bigger sin. He murdered another person.

[HappyMe]

45. I have thought about this for a bit.

I've decided rather than waste time on this murdering troll, I'm going to step up my gun control efforts.

[yardwork]

48. Maybe so. What difference does it make?

Zimmerman profiled, chased, and ultimately shot Martin because of his appearance. Whether it was the hoodie or the skin color doesn't make a difference.

[cigsandcoffee]

55. I think that profiling on color does make a lot of difference.

Isn't that much of what drives the incredible emotion around this case?

[brush]

11. Don't really care. He's a killer that needs to be in jail. nt

[allin99]

12. Yes, hispanic people of color can be racist against blacks.

[Beacool]

54. And vice versa.

[Jenoch]

14. George Zimmerman is multi-racial.

His mother is from Peru and she has an Afro-Peruvian father. His father is German-American.

[cigsandcoffee]

15. Well, so is President Obama, but he's still the first Black President.

And I don't think anyone would say he isn't a person of color.

[Jenoch]

39. I wasn't challenging anyone or anything. I was simply providing facts.

[MineralMan]

17. We are all persons of one color or another.

Racism is a universal sort of bigotry. Anyone can be a racist.

[Cleita]

20. True. We are all one race. We have variations in secondary characteristics depending

on where our ancestors settled, and what gene selection, enabled them to live to adulthood, depending on their environment, but we all share one species with no sub-species. My Anthropology professors said so, and I believe they are right. Some of us may have some Neanderthal genes but we are still the same species.

[MineralMan]

21. On all forms where I am asked to check off my race,

I check "Other," and write "Human" in the blank space. I have been doing that since high school, and that was a very, very long time ago.

[Cleita]

24. I just put Hispanic and let the lady's jaw drop, whom I hand the form back to.

I don't look like the stereotypical Hispanic that white Americans have in their head. But there's many of us who don't. My maiden name is Dutch and my married name is Irish and most people assume I'm Irish. People forget that Europeans and Asians immigrated to South America as well as here so Latinos and Hispanics come in all colors and sizes.

[Gravitycollapse]

19. Zimmerman is a person of color.

[pnwmom]

57. Only if he considers himself to be one.

There is no scientific definition of race, and the term Hispanic doesn't imply any particular race. So the question is whether he considers himself to be white, or a person of color . . . that is, a color other than white.

[Gravitycollapse]

59. Actually, society decides who is a person of color.

And Zimmerman possesses physical characteristics, including skin and hair and eye color, indicative of Hispanic ethnicity.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

23. Isn't a white hispanic an official census classification?

As opposed to a black Hispanic (think Roberto Clemente, Sammy Sosa.....sorry, just using baseball players as an example.)

He's white. And he's half Hispanic.

And he's 100% capable of holding racist or stereotypical views towards young black males.

So what's the point?

[Cleita]

25. Lately, they give you a choice to check off as many classifications as you choose.

So you could check off Caucasian, Native American and African as well as Hispanic if you identify as such.

[allin99]

31. i think it's "non-white hispanic".

[pnwmom]

58. It's both. You can consider yourself a white Hispanic

or a non-white or black hispanic.

[flamingdem]

60. Cuban American often gets its own category

Go figure.

[WinkyDink]

27. "Hispanic," if it means Spanish or Portuguese proper, refers to a Caucasian from Iberia.

[caraher]

28. Forget Zimmerman

What about the police who decided to send Zimmerman on his merry way? Would they have done that with a white victim?

That's the real racism at work here.

[yardwork]

49. Bingo

[Beacool]

32. I know of no other country that considers Hispanics as a race.

Hispanics are an ethnic group, they are NOT a race. Hispanics can be of many races: white, black, native, Asian or any other combination thereof.

[allin99]

37. i could be wrong, but aren't all of which we consider "races"...

ethnicities? and the term race in general is incorrect?

[Beacool]

40. There's some truth in that too.

[pnwmom]

61. I've read that scientifically speaking there's no such thing as race. n/t

[quinnox]

33. Even if we accept he is "hispanic", they can be racists too

I don't see the point here.

[jonthebru]

41. Racial conflict is what it is about.

Blacks can hate Hispanics, Asians can have problems with Blacks or Hispanics. Hispanics can find fault with
blacks and other races. Whites don't have any monopoly on racial conflict.

I believe someone can not be "racist" and still have a problem with other races and even their own that may not encompass their lives. In other words they get along when necessary but in the back of their head have stereotypes at work.
I live in Hawaii. I am Caucasian. I have definitely felt racism and bigotry during the course of my life. Don't get me wrong it is nothing like the racism Blacks and Hispanics endure but there is a real undercurrent in this "melting pot.".
Personally, at my age, I strive to give everyone their due, there are many white people I easily ignore due to their close minded bigotry. I will admit to being discriminatory towards those who watch Faux Snooze. Really, I do!

[WestStar]

46. Part of the confusion stems from the fact that many people jumped to the

conclusion that George Zimmerman had to be a white European German. How many people were saying that they had never heard of an Hispanic named Zimmerman? I still hear it today from some people. (There's a guy in Texas whose mother is a naturalized American from Mexico with the name of George P Bush. Is he considered Hispanic?)

Hell, there were some who claimed that old man Zimmerman was a retired Florida Judge or an ex-nazi concentration camp guard or some such nonsense. None of which is true.

Leaping to conclusions, including by the President himself, has turned what was basically a local tragedy into some national story about race. I'll let the justice system decide this one.

(BTW, there was a family in Duluth Mn. named Zimmerman. They're Jewish.)

[NOLALady]

51. When did the President

leap to a conclusion? I guess I missed it.

[pnwmom]

63. Robert Zimmerman wasn't a retired Florida judge. He was a retired Virginia Magistrate Judge.

Is that a significant difference?

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/zimmerman-dad-worked-as-magistrate

And he is only half hispanic, from his mother's side (assuming his mother had two hispanic parents).

The real question is whether he considers himself to be white or to be a person of color.

[Gravitycollapse]

64. I don't understand why that would make any difference.

As if black people haven't also had notoriously difficult relations with Hispanics. And visa versa.

[pnwmom]

65. That's true. I don't think it would matter either.

I don't know why some people think it's significant whether Zimmerman is "of color" or not.

[markiv]

50. only whites can be considered racist

and what he did was racist

therefore, he's white

I do agree however, had he done somethig honorable, it would be proper to classify him as hispanic

all of this helps right past wrongs

[DevonRex]

53. It depends. How does he self-identify? With his last name it gets

more complicated. He could have grown up in a completely non-Hispanic atmosphere because of his father. Seeing what his father wrote, it's possible that George could even have some measure of self-hate because of his ethnicity.

[MNBrewer]

62. Not that he didn't murder Mr. Martin, but

it fits a narrative.