What the hell is Snowden talking about when he says the U.S. "unilaterally revoked my passport"?

[Cali_Democrat]

"The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon," Snowden wrote at Wikileaks. "Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum."

http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/07/snowden_statement_us_plucked_m.html

Governments issue passports and governments have the right to revoke them. It will always be unilateral. If Russia wants to revoke the passport of one of it's citizens, they don't ask for permission from the United States or any other country. They will just do it. This is the same for every country in the world.

Also, he's NOT stateless. He's still a citizen of the US and can come back any time he wants to.

This guy is so clueless it's just sad at this point. He's like a 16-year-old kid in a 30-year-old man's body.

[gcomeau]

1. "16-year-old kid in a 30-year-old man's body..."

...or in other words, a Libertarian.

[graham4anything]

4. +1

[Whisp]

8. ++ tee hee.

[Tarheel_Dem]

12. And they are directing their forces here to "stoke up outrage & rebellion".

"Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

I would call them children, but most children are smarter than Libertarians.

[Cali_Democrat]

18. LOL!

Spot on.

[MjolnirTime]

36. a dim 16-year-old at that.

[arely staircase]

57. this^^^^

[ellisonz]

64. ^^^^

Yup.

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. Well, since the US "unilaterally" issued it in the first place, I'm not sure what he's talking about

& obviously, neither is he.

[Squinch]

28. If they had wanted to, I wonder how they would have done it bilaterally?

Grab it with both hands maybe?

[Tarheel_Dem]

32. !!!

Sounds like someone's trying to sound much more intelligent than he really is, doesn't it? He is way out of his depths.

[malaise]

3. Apparently he didn't know this n/t

[aquart]

37. Well, he doesn't seem to think the mission of a spy agency should be spying.

So I'm hardly surprised.

[Roland99]

55. Not on Americans in violation of the U.S. Constitution...no.

[aquart]

67. Agreed. But he hasn't stopped there, has he?

[MADem]

5. He's talking out his ass--it seems to be a habit with him.

He makes declarations.

They aren't true.

It's why even the Russians have told him he needs to STFU.

[snooper2]

6. Snowden should be a case study of what happens when you go truthy on the intertubes...

Imagine all the Alex Jones and other conspiracy shit he has watched over the years. Just like religion over time I think it just really affects the ability to reason.

Shit, he stole some classified docs and didn't even have the education to understand what was in them. So he goes out with Greenwald who is no technical guru himself and says "They can tap your call anytime! They got all your email!"

Thus propagating the bullshit that has been fed into his brain for years out to even more susceptible folks...


It's kind of sad actually

[NightWatcher]

13. Winner winner chicken dinner!

A kid who spent too much time on conspiracy sites and thought he would be a hero online by sticking it to the man.

He was given a little bit of access and it went to his head.

[Tarheel_Dem]

21. "Winner winner chicken dinner!" x 2

[Whisp]

7. He talks like Sarah.

Makes no sense, just throws in 'big' words for effect.

[flamingdem]

23. I think that the GeeGee Effect!

Greenwald is concocting this stuff via secure Skype with assistance from Assange.

Difference is Greenwald is under a tree on the beach in Brazil and Assange is in a closet!

[JaneyVee]

27. I'm not sure that statement was even written by him. Seems suspicious.

[Scuba]

9. Who cares? It's not about Snowden.

[stevenleser]

10. His travel status is "not about him"? nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

14. !!!

[Scuba]

15. Who cares what Snowden's travel status is? Or his naivety regarding passports?

Such posts are a mere distraction. The real issue is the spying.

[stevenleser]

19. I care about the status of dishonest traitors. nt

[former9thward]

30. What was your position on Daniel Ellsberg?

Supporting Nixon's attempt to smear and jail him?

[stevenleser]

47. Ellsberg did not take 7-8 laptops full of classified information to the Chinese and Russians.

The main impact of Ellsburgs acts was to inform the public of wrongdoing.

The main impact of Snowden's acts is the mountains of classified information that Chinese and Russian intelligence are now sifting through.

Ellsberg also did not embellish what was going on. He allowed the pentagon papers to speak for themselves.

[AlinPA]

53. What about al-Qaeda ? Seems if he is thorough he'd give it to them too.

[stevenleser]

62. I wouldn't put it past him. When he is back in the US and on the stand, it will be interesting

to see what he says was his reasoning for taking 7-8 laptops full of classified info and jumping on a flight to Hong Kong.

[former9thward]

63. There is no evidence that Snowden gave anything to the Chinese or Russians.

More lies from the Smear Machine. Ellsberg did take classified material. You do 't get to judge which is good classified material and what is bad classified material to release based on who is in the White House at the time. Snowden has not embellished anything -- although I did not know that is now a crime by The Authority worshipers. The people telling lies about him are the only ones who have embellished anything here.

[stevenleser]

68. LOL, that's what you are going with? Really?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-the-danger-of-what-edward-snowden-has-not-revealed/2013/07/01/67f95a18-e251-11e2-aef3-339619eab080_story.html

And excuse me, four laptops full of classified info.

Your contention is that during his time in China and now Russia, the intelligence agencies of those two countries either never asked to see what was on those laptops, or if they did, Snowden said "No", and they replied, "oh, ok."



Please try and sell crazy nonsensical crap elsewhere. I'm not buying. Oh yes, the GRU/SVR/FSB and Chinese Intelligence would totally allow Snowden to hang out and wouldn't ask (read: demand) to "see" the laptops for a few hours.

[frylock]

74. wait, wasn't it just 7-8 laptops?

[stevenleser]

93. Because being a traitor with 4 laptops vs 7 laptops of classified info is such a big difference?

[frylock]

96. why not make it 400 laptops?

that would really help to drive home your "point."

[stevenleser]

98. Turning over 4, 7, or 400 laptops full of classified info to the Russians and Chinese makes no diff

But you already knew that.

He is a traitor pure and simple.

[former9thward]

100. Now its up to 400

[stevenleser]

101. I'm not the one who said 400. You do realize that right? It was Frylock up thread.

The think that is really is your reading comprehension

[former9thward]

103. You keyboard patriots need to get together.

I read posters saying Snowden was an idiot who just stole some "Power point slides" and lied about everything else. You are saying he is a dastardly traitor. You need to get one message. I'm sure Cheney will be out with one soon.

[stevenleser]

104. None of what you wrote is mutually exclusive. They're all part of the truth

1. He is an idiot
2. His powerpoint slides are not what they are being made out to be. That will come out.
3. He is a traitor.

[Progressive dog]

102. I didn't know data was measured in laptops worth

[former9thward]

81. I don't know what went on there.

I guess you had one of your "sources" in the room. Just keep making shit up. I can't wait to see what the new slander will be tomorrow. Say Hi to Dick Nixon -- excuse me -- Dick Cheney when you see him.

[stevenleser]

97. You should have simply stopped with the first three words in your subject. You would have been right

for a change.

[frylock]

73. you know that they didn't have laptops back then?

you know this, right?

[stevenleser]

92. I'm trying to figure a way your point could be less relevant. Ellsberg did not take unrelated

Classified information and get on a jet and go to the Chinese or Soviets whether that information was electronic, on paper, on reel to reel or whatever other media.

[frylock]

95. snowden has ellsberg's full support..

take up your beef with Ellsberg.

[stevenleser]

99. You're still using a logical fallacy by using his opinion as fact. "Appeal to Authority"

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html

An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:

Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
Person A makes claim C about subject S.
Therefore, C is true.
This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ellsberg did the right thing once regarding the pentagon papers.

That does not make him an authority on the difference between a hero and a traitor. He also thought Manning was great and Manning released hundreds of thousands of documents that detailed no wrongdoing.

That makes Ellsberg's judgment wrong twice.

[Raine1967]

82. Exactly.

Ellsberg also did not embellish what was going on. He allowed the pentagon papers to speak for themselves.

And that is just one reason why Snowden is no Ellsberg. To those that keep saying he's not the story don;t really seem to understand that SNOWDEN is the one making himself the story.

[grasswire]

91. now it's 7-8 laptops?

inflation?

[stevenleser]

94. Because being a traitor with 4 laptops vs 7 laptops of classified info is such a big difference?

[ProSense]

20. Do you think

"Who cares what Snowden's travel status is? Or his naivety regarding passports? Such posts are a mere distraction. The real issue is the spying."

...that these "posts are a mere distraction":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023148507

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023148368

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. Yeah who cared about the travel status of Benedict Arnold either?

[bornskeptic]

87. Probably the people on this thread.

If someone didn't care about Snowden's travel status, I'm sure they wouldn't be reading this.

[Andy823]

11. Like all good Pualbots

His main agenda seems to be to make the president look bad. Just like the Paulbot trolls that are here on DU, it's always trash talking about the president and trying to keep things people here divided.

I just hope that Snowden gets wise pretty soon and figures out he is being used, then decides to start pointing fingers at those who have been in the background pushing him on. Somebody is benefiting from all this, but it's not going to be Snowden!

[naaman fletcher]

16. Who cares what his agenda is?

What would you prefer?

A guy with an agenda leak the truth, or the truth stay secret until the mythical perfect leaker comes along?

[BeyondGeography]

65. I love responses like this

It's like, who cares if he has his head on sideways about the facts of what governments can and can not do and, based on past pronouncements and candidate support, has an obvious political axe to grind with Obama, the main thing that he's asking us to believe is obviously 100 percent true so let's only talk about that.

No.

[Andy823]

83. I would prefer

That if what he has to say is really "breaking news", he shouldn't have gone to China because they are so great when it comes to "human rights"! I would prefer to see some information that is actually new, not something we all know has been going on for decades. I would prefer that if there is a problem with the NSA's programs that it be investigated and then congress should fix the laws. I would prefer that if someone is really serious about being a "patriot" they stay in the country and try and make the changes need by going to the proper channels. Hell if he has some "really" important information he could have gone to his buddy Rand Paul and had him make it public.

I would prefer a much more reliable "leaker" than one who seems to have an agenda to simply make the president look bad. The more I hear from Mr. Snowden the less I believe he is sincere, but instead is working with others for what I see as "POLITICAL" reasons.

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. +1. So far, none of the 20 countries he's applied to, have jumped at his offer. I don't think it's

about the US. I don't think they trust him, and see him as a liability. If he can do this sort of thing to his home country, then the fear is that he probably wouldn't hesitate to do it to a host country. He's a man without a country right now, and it's his own fault for allowing himself to be manipulated by Greenwald, and then by Assange.

[Andy823]

85. I agree with you

I think that his information has not been as ground breaking as he and Greenwald say it is. If it were I would think Russia or China would have jumped onboard and gave him a place to stay. I also believe his is being manipulated and for one reason or another doesn't care, or doesn't see just how deep he is getting himself in more trouble. I don't believe those doing the manipulation will be there to catch him when he falls. The only thing I hope is that Mr. Snowden decides he is not going down alone, and takes those behind him along for the ride.

[Thinkingabout]

84. I agree Andy, he is a patsy, fell for their line and now he will pay the price of doing their cause.

I don't think I could fall for their crap and wonder about those who do.

[Andy823]

88. From what I have seen

The Paul followers are pretty loyal, and seem to be gullible enough to buy into all the BS. I have seen the same things with religious groups who seem to have all the answers and are able to bring people into their belief system, and brainwash them to accept whatever it is the leadership says. All you have to do is be able to lie good enough to convince someone who is gullible that they need to accept that the only way to change things is to follow them, no matter what. I mean look at the tea party crowd. They have been so brainwashed that they defend the big corporations, vote for people who will take their rights away from them, take their SS, medicare, etc. away from them, and they can't even see what is going on, until its to late, then instead of opening their eyes to the truth, they simply listen to the BS that it's all Obama's fault and they actually believe it. I think Mr. Snowden is in the same boat.

[DevonRex]

22. When the US requests extradition of a citizen it revokes their passport. He should've

looked that up before he ran. Stupid shit.

[Enrique]

24. go get him!

do it for Obama!

[Cali_Democrat]

25. Enrique, you're really starting to lose it

[Enrique]

31. yes it's crazy to imagine that people are obsessing over any imagined fault of Snowden

also it's just as crazy to imagine that a number of people piling on in this thread are avid Obama defenders.

[Tarheel_Dem]

34. There's no shortage of threads for you guys who aren't "avid Obama defenders".

Here's a DUzy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023148368

[Skittles]

40. how about this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023142617

[great white snark]

48. Got any Snowden threads?

More oversight to or changing for the better of the Patriot Act should be welcome by everyone here.

[Skittles]

52. I wish some DUers would stop worrying about Obama

and start worrying about America

[great white snark]

58. I wish some DUers wouldn't blame Obama for all America's problems.

Personally I don't worry about Obama I support him. I also support this country that I love.

[Skittles]

59. tired of this

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Iliyah]

75. And I'm tire of this shit

as well. Can dish it out but can't take it huh. And as to the love of my country its 100% although the USA has many faults. I can agree to disagree which is the 1st amendment. And it does seems like the continued pounding of the President of the United States.

And of course Snowden is being talked about pro and con.

[Skittles]

76. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Iliyah]

78. LOL

lol lol lol lol

[Skittles]

79. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[grasswire]

111. did you happen to live through the coup attempt against Clinton?

That was a pounding. Nothing remotely like that is taking place in the press against Obama.

[Tarheel_Dem]

50. Oh, you mean the 26 senators who are now in some serious CYA mode? Deflect! Deflect! Deflect!

They have no shame.

[Skittles]

60. I know who is in CYA mode

[Tarheel_Dem]

72. You wish. The body charged with making the law, overseeing the law, is now questioning the law?

That's a good thing, but what took so damned long? They just reauthorized this crap in 2012. Why the sudden reflection?

[Skittles]

77. exhibit #5367

[nineteen50]

42. The ability to tell the difference between the truth and a lie

has been murdered by blind allegence and his inebriated accomplice political debris.

[BumRushDaShow]

26. Hyperbole much?

[CakeGrrl]

29. "Unilaterally" sounds ominous.

The Big Bad US and all that - "me against the machine".

He's got the supporting crowd in a collective fear that he'll be executed for his "bravery".

The truth is, he ain't worth a drone or a jet scramble, as the President has indicated. He just needs to do the time for peddling information to China and Russia.

But that's being LARGELY ignored by his supporters. When it turns to that, it's suddenly "Not about the messenger!!!" time.

He's actually doing more damage to his putative cause by continuing to make statements.

[Cha]

33. Playin' to his fans.. It's been pointed out that.. Who else was the USA suppose to ask

to revoke his damn passport? Iceland? Russia? Hong Kong? Greenwald?

And,

Although I am convicted of nothing,

"Convicted"? No, he hasn't been.. he ran off to Hong Kong like a sneak in the night and then leaked .. and he refuses to face the music, so no.. he hasn't been convicted of anything, yet.

[struggle4progress]

35. Holy moly! Them dirty rotten bastiges has followed them's own publitched regulashuns

22 CFR Subpart E — Denial, Revocation, and Restriction of Passports

§ 51.60 Denial and restriction of passports.

... (b) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by competent authority that:

(1) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding Federal warrant of arrest for a felony ... <or>

(5) The applicant is the subject of a request for extradition or provisional request for extradition which has been presented to the government of a foreign country ...

§ 51.62 Revocation or limitation of passports.

(a) The Department may revoke or limit a passport when

(1) The bearer of the passport may be denied a passport under 22 CFR 51.60 ...

§ 51.65 Notification of denial or revocation of passport.

(a) The Department will notify in writing any person .. whose passport has been revoked ...

§ 51.66 Surrender of passport.

The bearer of a passport that is revoked must surrender it .. upon demand ...

http://cfr.regstoday.com/22cfr51.aspx#22_CFR_51pSUBPART_E

[flamingdem]

38. At this point he'll take

Even China!!

[1-Old-Man]

39. The Passport is just paper and a picture, he is still a Citizen and entitled to his rights.

This is just makeup on a fucking pig.

[brooklynite]

45. I believe those rights include the right to a trial by his peers.

If he bothers to show up in the US, I think he'll be taking advantage of that one.

[nineteen50]

41. Or he is one individual struggling against the most powerful

nation in history, You try it and see if they can make you look like a child.

[Iliyah]

43. My opinion only, but

I don't think Mr. Snowden wrote that statement and I think it was Assange or someone from wilileaks, followed by Mr. Greenwald on fake news. It appears that Mr. Snowden is being manipulated and the initial party who got him to steal the information is directly from this country.

And I think that Ecuador is getting tired of Assange.

[frylock]

44. is this another one of those "snowden is making this about snowden" threads?

[Mojorabbit]

70. Yes and it is getting beyond pathetic. nt

[frylock]

71. if snowden is a narcissist, what do you call someone who's obsessed with a narcissist?

[Mr.Bill]

46. He still has the right to seek asylum.

Just like I have the right to seek a billion dollars in income this year. Probably neither on of will get what we are seeking, but we still have the right to seek it.

[truebluegreen]

49. Who cares?

[FreeBC]

51. The constant Snowden character assassination here is extremely suspicious

Far too many people here seem more than happy to make the revelation of widespread illegal NSA wiretapping about tearing down the guy that made it news.

It really makes you wonder how many posters here are real and how many are accounts used by government operatives to steer discussion and opinion.

And if you take offense to my insinuations that those of you who continue to make this all about Snowden may be fake accounts with another agenda, I take offense to the idea that some of you are trying to distract from the real issue and hop on board the government/media messaging bandwagon.

Seriously people, if I wanted to hear what George Stephanopoulos' or David Gregory's "insider sources" want the NSA spying narrative to be, I could tune in and watch them.

[CakeGrrl]

66. The old, tired 'character assassination' meme

Peddling information to China and Russia speaks for itself about someone who claims to be hacking and stealing data to protect freedom and expose tyranny.

One simply has to point out what he's said and done. That's not "character assassination", that's OBSERVATION.

[Moosepoop]

69. Snowden's character is not being assassinated.

It's committing suicide.

[alcibiades_mystery]

80. ROFL

Burn.

[Thinkingabout]

89. FreeBC, Snowden has made a mess out of his character, this is his own mess and he will have to be

The one to fix it. Running and whining is not working very well for him.

[FreeBC]

108. Who cares?

Will the American people acquiesce to becoming a police state with secret laws and unimpeded recording of our private conversations because they barely understand technology and just kind of assume it's inevitable?

Quick! Look over there! let's talk about the guy that leaked the story instead! He's bad so I guess that makes it ok.

[Thinkingabout]

109. you are right, who cares about Snowden, he disregards our laws so who cares about what he says.

[FreeBC]

110. great!

Now can we talk about the much, much more serious crimes of the NSA?

[Thinkingabout]

112. What crime can you charge them with?

You don't make someone innocent by saying someone else did another.

[BAPhill]

54. My impression....

is that he likes to use big words...even if doesn't know what they mean.

[appleannie1]

61. He reminds me of my ex boss who said of his troops

"Their defecation to their uniforms is outstanding" when bragging about them to a fellow law enforcement chief. He thinks using big words proves how intelligent he is when in fact he is one dumb ass.

[randome]

86. Allow me to translate for you.

(Jeeze, 84 posts and no 'whiner' pics yet? Alas, DU...)

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[uppityperson]

106. What I'd like to know is who was the one of 6 who said "leave" to this rambling personal attack

[HappyMe]

107. Your whole damn post is a personal attack.

And, as you said yourself, it's easy to hide behind a computer screen, isn't it?