Snowden has something major or they don't know what he has.

[morningfog]

US is looking scared and desperate with this latest episode. Some people are seriously sweating. Really makes you wonder what they are afraid will be released. I don't think it is because of what he has released so far.

[baldguy]

1. Or they know what he has and would rather not have it broadcast over the world.

Why? Because NSA, that's why. That's what they do.

[think]

29. Russ Tice claims the NSA had wiretaps even on all 9 Supreme Court justices

So they are pretty thorough in making sure there are no terrorists.....

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/tag/russ-tice/

In fact Tice says they wiretapped Barack Obama, the leaders in congress, members of the Bush administration, top members of the military, a flock of journalists, activists, other federal judges, lawyers and law firms...........

But hey. That's what they do!

[randome]

31. Good God, I didn't realize Tice was that far off the range.

And the evidence that 'they' were blackmailing the world was...rulings that went against the Bush administration? The inability to stop Obama from being elected? What?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[think]

33. What do you mean "off the range"? Please explain.

I'm afraid you need to spell it out in black and white for me because I have no clue what the fuck is in those tea leaves your stirring....

[randome]

35. I thought I DID spell it out.

All this alleged blackmailing going on and...they still lost the White House. They still got called on warrantless wiretapping. They still lost the Senate.

You don't think this sounds a little CT-minded?

What are the odds that all 9 Supreme Court justices have some dark secret in their past that they cannot reveal to the public?

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[think]

37. You insulted a whistle blower who exposed Bush's illegal wire tapping and claimed he's nuts

OK

[Alameda]

59. like the truth about the "curly hair"

[Th1onein]

89. Are you equating the NSA with the Republican Party?

Like they are the same entity?

I think not.

[baldguy]

34. The NSA is really part of the Illuminati,

and they're trying to prevent the Black Hand from obtaining the Philosophers' Stone!

[think]

36. Thank you for your very informed opinion. Could you provide any links to

back those claims up?

[baldguy]

44. Robert Anton Wilson did an extensive exposé several years ago.

And THEY KILLED HIM for it!!

Fnord!

[think]

45. Well what did I go to school for. Thank you for the additional info!

[Electric Monk]

48. Way to miss the point, almost as though you had intended to before you even got started.

Some people just aren't "it getters", I suppose.

[baldguy]

51. Ya got me! Yes, I'm laughing at the Paulbots and Snowden's chauvanists.

Their CTs are at least as entertaining as those in any SF-fueled Discordianist thriller.

[kentuck]

32. But who wiretaps them?

Who guards the guardians??

[think]

41. excellent question. /nt

[struggle4progress]

2. Which latest episode?

[DevonRex]

3. Haha. That's why no country wants him.

China throws him to Russia like a hot potato. Putin leaves him in the airport. All we've done is revoke his passport. President Obama seems content to let him stew in dirty clothes.

[morningfog]

5. No, Obama had nothing to do with forcing a

plane with a head of state to land. Right.

[DevonRex]

16. You have a problem with France and Portugal

deciding what to do with their own airspace? Talk to them. Just think, France and Portugal might actually have a stake in Snowden not spilling their secrets, too. Poor Snowden should have taken into account that he might be making a lot of enemies when he pulled his stunt. Especially when he has nothing of value to offer anyone.

Iran and North Korea might welcome him.

[sabrina 1]

22. France and Portugal haven't decided what to do with anything until they hear from the US

since the last anti-Bush wars president left office and was replaced with US puppet, Sarkozy. As the French people understood, and the British people learned, and the Irish and the Greeks and all those other First world countries that used to be sovereign nations until Wall St imposed their third world policies on them, destroying not only their economies, but their sovereignty.

It's going to take a while for those countries to get back their independence but the process at least is beginning.

The Wikileaks cables left no doubt about who pulls the strings of Europe's newly right wing, Wall St friendly Governments.

[DevonRex]

24. Dear, look up Frenchelon. nt

[sabrina 1]

25. I've been very observant of the European situation over the past decade. Don't really need to look

up anything to know what has been going on there. If you didn't support Bush's wars, there was a price to pay and puppets had to be installed so such a thing never happened in the future. So far, it hasn't but the people will have something to say about all of this in the end.

[DevonRex]

49. LOL, it was in place long before W even took office. A little reading for you:

http://www.zdnet.com/frenchelon-france-has-nothing-to-envy-in-echelon-3002079875/

"The French have nothing to envy the Americans for. France has its very own Echelon, located within the Paris region and equipped with semantic analysis engines that sort out the information".

This is what a DST (French equivalent of MI6) officer told journalists in 1998 following the first denunciation of Echelon by the European Parliament. Ironically, it was the French who complained most bitterly about Echelon's covert activities and indeed, several companies and individuals are now persuing a legal case against America's National Security Agency (NSA)."

[MADem]

52. France quite recently plussed up their intelligence budget, too. nt

[DevonRex]

71. Really? I know that France and Germany share quite a lot.

Which boggles the mind, considering their history. I'll have to do some more snooping. Germany, now there's an interesting case. They are quite active yet pretend otherwise.

[arely staircase]

47. are you calling france an american lapdog?

read some history.

[Scootaloo]

55. I like that reflexive pairing of "Iran and North Korea"

AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL! AXIS OF EVIL!



Thank god we already destroyed Iraq and murdered a couple hundred thousand of their people so you don't have to shoehorn them in there as well, right?

[DevonRex]

69. Iran has a beef with us because of our cyber attack on their nuclear program.

North Korea has recently threatened us with nuclear annihilation. My pairing was absolutely deliberate. It's too fucking bad you don't like facts, but those are undeniable. Thus the pairing.

You are free to pretend Kim Jong Un isn't batshit crazy. And you're free to ignore that NSA, with its EW SIGINT, actually disrupted Iran's nuclear program and at least delayed the time that Israel and Iran go to war.

[Romulus Quirinus]

81. Whaddya mean "bullying" Mrs. Smith?

Timmy GAVE me his lunch money because we're BEST FRIENDS, isn't that right Timmy? *elbow poke*

[Cali_Democrat]

9. "President Obama seems content to let him stew in dirty clothes."

Similar to Julian Assange. I hope to god Julian has been showering while he's been holed up in that embassy. It's been over a year.

I'm not sure if Assange was the right guy to give advice to Snowden.

Now Snowden is the one rocking filthy clothes and could be for a long time.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. According to Glenn Greenwald...the leaks are all done and the newspapers are now deciding

what to reveal:

[Nine]

10. What does that mean?

Is GG trying to say that Snowden has info but no way to disseminate it?

[Cali_Democrat]

12. Glenn clarifies:

[Raine1967]

20. Glenn needs to get better at reporting.

He clarified something he didn't say -- may he needs to stop with the twitter; if you have to clarify on twitter -- STOP tweeting and write a post.

[Luminous Animal]

27. I understood his original tweet completely; some others did not. So he clarified.

[morningfog]

54. SNowden's leak to Greenwald is done. It was completed in one dump weeks ago.

Greenwald is not getting anything new from Snowden. Snowden gave Greenwald all he was going to give Greenwald at one time, weeks ago.

We don't know if SNowden gave Greenwald everything that Snowden had. Greenwald still has more to release form what he was given as well.

The bottom line is that Greenwald has more to release. And, Snowden may have more. We just don't know.

[KittyWampus]

91. Yet Snowden clearly said he has more which he will decide which journalists in which countries to

give them to.

[Raine1967]

17. Wow. That's some ish. Incredible back-peddle.

Greenwald works for a f8cking newspaper. Is he saying HIS paper -- The Guardian is the bad gut now as well?

Personally what I see here is this: He is doing now is throwing his 'big catch/story' and Edward Snowden under the bus.

What this says to me is that Greenwald never really saw anything that Snowden claimed he had. If he had copies of the files the leaks and whatever, the Guardian would be publishing them.

Snowden is the story here. He is. Greenwald got punked, and now he wants us all to blame newspapers -- when he WORKS FOR A NEWSPAPER!

[Andy823]

21. I thought Greewald was telling fox news something big was coming

If it's all basically done, then what would be "big" that has not been put out there? I guess its just more BS being put out to keep this in the news.

[Luminous Animal]

26. Greenwald asserts that the Guardian already has everything that Snowden downloaded.

He said from the very beginning that there are thousands of documents and 20 or so important stories. So far the Guardian has published 6-8, so there are more to come.

[morningfog]

75. That is not how I read Greenwald's statement. He is saying that everything Snowden was to give him

he already has. I took that to mean that Snowden may have more. Definitely, they each have more to be released. I agree, there is more to come, clearly, form the Guardian.

It is not clear, form the most recent links, that Greenwald has everything SNowden had. That may be the case, I just can't tell form the tweets. Do you have a link to Greenwald saying he has everything that Snowden downloaded?

[morningfog]

56. Greenwald says he still does have big stuff to release,

just that it is up to him to control the timing. Unless Snowden releases something on his own. Or, if Snowden held back some things from Greenwald.

[randome]

58. First the PowerPoint slides!

Next up: NSA parking lot designations that prove, without a doubt, that the NSA operates without regard to established principles of international intrigue.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[morningfog]

60. Try to dismiss it. This is serious shit.

I think you and the other blind defenders are quite entertaining.

[randome]

62. I will go wherever the evidence leads me.

Right now it leads to mockery.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[morningfog]

64. But, you don't actually read the evidence.

[randome]

67. You would think Snowden would have provided stronger evidence...

...than a few PowerPoint slides if he truly had the access he claimed.

Face it, he never did have the access he claimed. All he was able to steal were internal NSA office documents.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[morningfog]

73. Face it. Obama is pissing nations off with the

ham fisted over reaction. They are sweating bullets because what has already been released is damning. What is left to be released has them scared shitless.

[Th1onein]

90. Riiiiiight! That's why Snowden is living in a Russian airport!

Geez.

[Cha]

57. But, but, but, G went on fox and friends whose ODS is

only a little behind Greenwald's and said another bombshell was coming!! So, according to this drip fuck.. the journalists will be leaking the next installment from Snowden?

Will it be like the last one... that has been known for years?

[MineralMan]

6. Yet another speculation,

with no facts to support it. Why do we not wait to see what develops?

[morningfog]

8. This is my opinion. Thank you for responding to my thread.

[HipChick]

19. Who needs facts?

[CakeGrrl]

7. Who's sweating? No other nation wants him so far.

They've had plenty of time to step up and say "Over here!"

Nope.

Meanwhile, steps have been taken to get him back to the US to face the trial he clearly lacks the backbone to face.

That doesn't bespeak fear - except on Snowden's part.

[morningfog]

76. Yet none are handing him over either. Even after direct requests.

[CakeGrrl]

88. "None" = Hong Kong and Russia.

If you think they're holding him out of concern for his care and well-being, I've got a bridge...

[Cleita]

11. Even if he doesn't have what they are afraid of, the fact they are this fearful of him and

militant about his extradition makes me wonder what our military is hiding.

[CakeGrrl]

13. It's most likely concern about collateral damage of ironically revealing identities

Since Snowden/Greenwald were so hot to get the leaked information out there and didn't necessarily vet it, leaving agencies to have to mask identities of people mentioned in the information.


http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/42213_Der_Spiegel-_Snowden_Released_Information_That_Could_Endanger_the_Lives_of_NSA_Workers

[Mojorabbit]

39. I thought that site was a no no for linking to? Did that change? nt

[morningfog]

77. Only out of convenience.

[Waiting For Everyman]

14. I agree with you, morningfog.

It may be too, they are afraid of another leaker coming forward sometime soon... trying to scare anyone else into backing off.

From what Russ Tice says, there are more fed up people in the NSA. Probably the same could be said for other intel services. There's a lot of wrong that a lot of people know about.

[Thinkingabout]

15. They know every key stroke he made while at NSA, know all the files he accessed. I think it is more

Probable the files Snowden thought was so important and other countries are using like information and think Snowden does not have anything special. Before his fan club ask why there are charges of espionage is because Snowden copied the files and gave information outside of NSA and he was nit authorized.

[kentuck]

43. Then why was it classified SECRET and TOP SECRET ?

If it is of no value?

[Thinkingabout]

72. I knew someone would ask something like this. it would only be good to an analysist or to the pbone

Company from which it came. How many phone people do you see running around telling who called who, why would this be, maybe because unless they are looking for billing information they don't care.
Snowden must have known about the phone call records before or he does not pay any attention to what is going on around him. Also, if of no value why was Snowden stealing the records.

[randome]

18. Even the Wikileaks attorneys don't want him!

You reveal yourself as wanting the U.S. to be fearful but their actions do not appear to be anything more than wanting to stop a man with national security documents from giving away more secrets.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Luminous Animal]

23. The Guardian already has all the info that he downloaded. Snowden can choose to leak

to other news agencies but there is nothing US can do to stop the Guardian from publishing.

[Catherina]

38. Spiegel already has what's relevant to Germany too n/t

[carolinayellowdog]

28. the propagandists seem desperate to innoculate us from whatever truth is still out there

dead messengers tell no tales, so destroying someone's credibility before he makes more major revelations is a prophylactic measure

[pnwmom]

30. What latest episode? n/t

[morningfog]

74. Forcing a plane with a head of state to change course

and land off course. Ham fisted an desperate. And they still don't have Snowden! Lol.

[NightWatcher]

40. Or HE has nothing and is afraid

No country wants to take him and risk whatever intel he has versus the US backlash.

He's alone and I'm sure he's sick of living off airport food and Starbucks wifi.

[Herlong]

42. The Fact that NSA has been operating on such a large scale for so long is kind of a big deal

I'll let old screw ball Rummy worry about unknown, unknowns.

[arely staircase]

46. oh, someone's getting desperate alright nt

[bahrbearian]

50. Snowden should go to Spain and Obama can ask Chimpy to go arrest him.

Chimpy could bring Cheney and Ashcroft for back up.

[randome]

53. Shrewd.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Herlong]

68. John Ashcroft is unavailable

He's singing in his shower. Badly.

[bahrbearian]

70. And He is the Smart One

[Catherina]

61. They don't have the slightest clue what he has.

What a bunch of Yahoos running this show.

[morningfog]

63. Reports on RT that Ecuador requested a special meeting of UNASUR after the incident with Morales.

I know RT is often on the edge or over it, so I am waiting for a confirmation source. The US is playing an incredibly risky game. One that would only be played if the were very worried.

[Catherina]

65. It's true. I got it straight from Ecuadoran paper

well, it was actually about a request from Patino to convene an emergency UNASUR summit over this. Venezuela is fuming too so I'm sure they'll have one. Venezuela's PM is already working the phones with other Latin American FMs. Let me find the source for you...

Ecuadoran FM has information directly from President Morales and the government of Bolivia, they gave us the information about this and we are calling for an emergency session of UNASUR for this "tremendous offense"

Ecuador pedirá reunión extraordinaria de Unasur ante atentado contra Evo Morales

Patiño aseguró que la medida de los países europeos constituye una “tremenda ofensa” en contra del presidente boliviano, y agregó que Ecuador tenía directamente la información, que le fue suministrada por Morales y el Gobierno de Bolivia.

http://www.telesurtv.net/articulos/2013/07/02/ecuador-solicitara-reunion-extraordinaria-a-unasur-para-tratar-atentado-a-evo-morales-4286.html

I originally posted it in the thread about Bolivia's Presidential jet being forced down.

[grasswire]

66. yeah, if they logged all his keystrokes...

....he never would have gotten on a plane to Hong Kong, unless the security of NSA is totally SNAFU.

[morningfog]

78. Well, obviously, security at NSA is totally SNAFU.

A high school drop out conned them out of who knows how much info and is on the run.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. I said to my husband Snowden got the crown jewels

he said, or they have no clue what he has.

So in this house we are sort of "split" on this.

What we are not, is that this is an extremely serious violation of international custom and law. As in could be construed as an act of war.

[morningfog]

82. If the US isn't careful they could cause this all to escalate and spiral into

something that can't be controlled. And, the fault will rest with the Administration, not Snowden.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. What, you are not going to blame a 30 something

for the fall out?

What is wrong with you?

(For the record, fully agree... this could and is spiraling out of control... they look vveeeerrryyyy desperate)

[BeyondGeography]

80. Or he pissed off the wrong guy

[Hydra]

84. The fact that they don't know what he has

Substantiates his claim that he had full access. They could have a perfect list if he was working out of the containers they claim to use.

I smell fear all over this. Manning grabbed 750k+ documents by himself. Snowden may have grabbed more if he was better prepared and not as nervous. It's clear that they are lying to us about who sees what and how...and it's being done by private companies no less.

[morningfog]

85. Everything you wrote is bad enough.

All great points. The next logical step is that I wonder which programs have the NSA/Administration most nervous about their possible revelation.

[Hydra]

86. There's no way to know really

They could be killing political enemies and we'd never know about it. MKUltra was one of the last times these people were put under a microscope in an official way, and it revealed drugging people, torture, brainwashing and murder to keep it quiet. It was only the sloppy "suicide" of one of the people in the program that got the daylight on it.

The better question, IMO, is if these nasty and in the dark programs get daylight...will there be enough outrage to do something about them?

[morningfog]

87. Good question. I would hope so.

But, I also know some Democrats (looking around here) that would defend ANYTHING that is revealed under this Administration. Anything.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

92. It's too late to put the horse back in the barn, this is all about discouraging future whistleblower